What do you reckon S54????

Jonttt · Post by **Jonttt** » Tue 04 Aug, 2009 18:09

Autotrader

Great spec and price for an S54 but why would someone who obviously knows the car so well to spec it like this not advertise as S54 and "conveniently" not show an interior shot of the dash to see.

Car is only a few miles from me and there was a set of S54's wheels sold on eBay last month from same area.I could easily phone up and find out but thought I would test out your knowledge of ///M's. No cheating who thinks S54?

I'll start and say yes due to curved ///M badges (I think they are).

John Boy · Post by **John Boy** » Tue 04 Aug, 2009 18:19

My guess...S54.

Post by **Robert T** » Tue 04 Aug, 2009 18:26

It is listed as 325bhp and the technical data (presumably supplied by AT) also states 325bhp, which would indicate an S54.

Clear indicators front and rear if original also say S54.

Car was first registered 10/10/2001 also says S54.

Am I getting warm.

Cheers R.

siwilson · Post by **siwilson** » Tue 04 Aug, 2009 19:19

Defo S54, grey dials and curved ///M badges give it away.

I think this could be DavidM's old car. If so then defo no expense spared, but it was driven like an ///M should be.

Si.

whiteminks · Post by **whiteminks** » Tue 04 Aug, 2009 20:09

That's a bargain and I believe there were only 3 made in imola.
Go get it someone, you will be smiling for a very long time!

John Boy · Post by **John Boy** » Wed 05 Aug, 2009 07:06

siwilson wrote:Defo S54, grey dials and curved ///M badges give it away.

I think this could be DavidM's old car. If so then defo no expense spared, but it was driven like an ///M should be.

Si.

I think DavidMs car had Eisenmann exhausts, not ACS...

John Boy · Post by **John Boy** » Wed 05 Aug, 2009 07:27

Aha...

That is DavidMs old car, but what is not mentioned (for obvious reasons!) is that the car may have suffered some rear end damage which is not mentioned.
Also it was apparently still popping the welds in the boot despite being corrected by BMW already.

JB

Jonttt · Post by **Jonttt** » Wed 05 Aug, 2009 07:38

John Boy, your a star I was due to go and view tonight, having spent a day telling myself I did not need two ///M's I couldn't resist. You've just saved me £12k

siwilson · Post by **siwilson** » Wed 05 Aug, 2009 08:12

John Boy wrote:
siwilson wrote:Defo S54, grey dials and curved ///M badges give it away.

I think this could be DavidM's old car. If so then defo no expense spared, but it was driven like an ///M should be.

Si.
I think DavidMs car had Eisenmann exhausts, not ACS...

Those Exhausts are not ACS. ACS ones are one large oval pipe with two round exit holes.

Original post here - http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showth ... cs+exhaust

PVR · Post by **PVR** » Wed 05 Aug, 2009 08:25

John Boy · Post by **John Boy** » Wed 05 Aug, 2009 08:41

I just read what I wrote before and to clarify; it was spun by the person who bought it from DavidM, not David!!!

PVR Well, the fan went through the Radiator, not so sure about the Engine

John Boy · Post by **John Boy** » Wed 05 Aug, 2009 17:04

You are right, they are the Eisenmann fitted: I was going by the [wrong] details in the advert

whiteminks · Post by **whiteminks** » Wed 05 Aug, 2009 17:24

Gosh that is a real pity that it has had that damage. Such a great colour combo too.

John Boy · Post by **John Boy** » Wed 05 Aug, 2009 17:43

whiteminks wrote:Gosh that is a real pity that it has had that damage. Such a great colour combo too.

Too true, if I'd had the funds available when DavidM sold it, I would have had it in an instant.

whiteminks · Post by **whiteminks** » Wed 05 Aug, 2009 17:47

The advert David released is still on the net!!!

http://www.autoseek.co.uk/cgi-bin/db.cg ... ore+detail

John Boy · Post by **John Boy** » Wed 05 Aug, 2009 18:06

Blimey that was a good find Paula!

Jonttt · Post by **Jonttt** » Mon 31 Aug, 2009 18:55

Well I bought it and at a bargain price (a lot less than advertised as no other interest whatsoever, patience is a virtue

).

I will post up more details when I pick it up later this week.

I did a full check on the car and spent 2 hours inspecting / test driving and there is no evidence whatsoever of any previous damage.

Also the boot spots welds are fine and actually look original.

Its just had a £1,200 full dealer inspection II (with some belts changing) and has a full set of new tyres.

There is a box (big box) full of documents and history, David really did a fine job on this car as has all the mods I was looking to do to mine. It has lots of unused bits and bobs not fitted including the metal windbreaks for the brakes to replace the plastic ones that always break, so much stuff I didn't have time to look through it all.

Could not believe it when I looked the car over I was convinced it would be a botched repair job but just needs a good detail

I've left David a message on the phone number advertised on his original advert as I would love to find out more about the car.

To say I'm pleased is an understatement, its probably the best bargain car I've ever bought, will hopefully pick up this week

G2JRP · Post by **G2JRP** » Mon 31 Aug, 2009 19:07

Great car but why two?

regards

Jonathan

Jonttt · Post by **Jonttt** » Mon 31 Aug, 2009 19:24

This was too much of a bargain to miss but will be selling my Silver one

whiteminks · Post by **whiteminks** » Mon 31 Aug, 2009 21:26

Jontt ,

Am thrilled you did it!

I wondered about it. I have got to thinking as long as a repair is done well it has to be worth it.

There are very few of these wonderful cars around. Maybe 3 or 4 imola S54s?
If you look at the well established classic cars, most have almost been scrapped several times over and all that remains of the original is the nu mber plate.

We are going there with the Z3M, particularly the rare S54.
Adore both my Zeds. My 2.2 is just coming up to 50k, but lots of life in him yet. But still have in the back of my mind, when his engine goes crunch at 200k where do I get a replacement

Love em to bits ! Don't we?

Gazza · Post by **Gazza** » Mon 31 Aug, 2009 21:44

Welcome to the S54 Club

calbens · Post by **calbens** » Mon 31 Aug, 2009 21:45

Jonttt wrote: I've left David a message on the phone number advertised on his original advert as I would love to find out more about the car.

Get yourself on facebook and you'll be able to ask him all you like

nero · Post by **nero** » Mon 31 Aug, 2009 22:02

If it was David's car, there was a magazine write-up with 3 Imola Reds, which at the time was David's, Gile's (Charlotte) and Big Mr P's (Hamaan)

{I can't remember which Mag, but probably Total BMW?}

Althulas · Post by **Althulas** » Mon 31 Aug, 2009 22:14

Nice one Jonttt it looks a beaut.

Jonttt · Post by **Jonttt** » Mon 31 Aug, 2009 22:24

Cheers guys (and gals

).

If it has been repaired then its a damn fine job which is good enough for me.

No record on insurance search and I could find no sign of any major work (including checking all original seams and bolts etc....), guess I would need a paint thickness gauge to check,I'll try and drop into see offyourmarks and see if he'll check it for me.

Also, and surprisingly the boot welds seemed original. I could see the extra welds all the S54's have but they were all fine and certainly no sign of the type of repair my silver one has had.

I guess I only have to worry about the connecting rod bearings

I've read plenty about this issue and am not sure if David got them changed or if the issue really did only affect a handful of S54 roadsters ?

Kolgan · Post by **Kolgan** » Tue 01 Sep, 2009 09:49

Hey Jon,

i'm not that fan of this color i must say but buying a S54 is always a good choice

I see that you didn't left the Z world (for me it will happen in a few months i think).

Desiro · Post by **Desiro** » Tue 01 Sep, 2009 14:42

Lovely looking car Jon

Time to start with the detailing again. Oh well it will give you something to do over the winter

Z3_TJK · Post by **Z3_TJK** » Tue 01 Sep, 2009 14:57

Excuse my ignorance but what are the main differences between an s54 and a standard m?

Gazza · Post by **Gazza** » Tue 01 Sep, 2009 15:27

Z3_TJK wrote:Excuse my ignorance but what are the main differences between an s54 and a standard m?

About £3K

Later M engine
4 bhp more
Service intervals changed
Grey Dials
Rounded M badges
Shadow Chrome Wheels

Jonttt · Post by **Jonttt** » Tue 01 Sep, 2009 15:28

Main differences are engine, suspension and traction control, full list below.

There are varying views as to which is the "better" car S50 or S54 as performance is very similar with traction control often being the deciding factor on "safey" grounds (although I was quoted only £400 to add a better system to my S50).

The main reason (for me anyway) is rarity, not that the S50 roadster is common but there were only 70 odd RHD S54 roadsters manufactured worldwide.

What changes were made to the E36/7 M roadster as of February 2001?

An updated M roadster entered production in February of 2001 with the following changes or additions:
-More powerful and advanced S54 engine for all markets (developed for the E46 M3)
-3.15:1 final drive for all markets
-Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) introduced
-Firmer suspension settings (adopted from those of the M coupe)
-Low tire pressure monitoring system introduced
-Revised gauges with gray backgrounds and revised graphics
-Reshaped rearview mirror with chrome surround and auto-dimming functiion
-Curved exterior M badges
-Chrome Shadow finish for the RoadStar alloy wheels
-Evergreen (358), Dakar Yellow II (337) and Cosmos Black metallic (303) paints discontinued
-Laguna Seca Blue (448), Phoenix Yellow metallic (445), Steel Gray metallic (400) and Black Sapphire matallic (475) paints available
-Evergreen + Black Nappa leather (Q6EV) and Kyalami Orange + Black Nappa leather (Q6KY) interiors discontinued
-Laguna Seca Blue + Black Nappa leather (Q6KY), Kiwi + Black Nappa leather (Q6OV) and Dark Beige Oregon leather (R3SN) interiors available (NOTE: Kiwi + Black Nappa leather not offered in North America)

What are the differences between the S50 and S54 engines?

The S54 powerplant of the later M roadsters is technically an evolution of the iron-block S50 B32 unit that is found in later Eruopean-spec E36 M3s, as well as all European-spec M roadsters and M coupes built through June of 2000. The two motors develop similar peak power ratings: 321 hp (DIN) at 7,400 rpm and 258 lb/ft of torque at 3,250 rpm for the S50 versus 325 hp (DIN) at 7,400 rpm and 261 lb/ft of torque at 4,900 rpm for the S54. However, they share few major components and differ in the following areas:
-Increased cylinder bore to 87mm (from 86.1mm) for a new total displacement of 3,246cc (from 3,201cc)
-Modified camshafts
-High pressure Double VANOS continuously variable valve timing system with faster operation at high rpm
-Increased compression to 11.5:1 (from 11.3:1)
-More advanced BMW/Siemens MSS 54 engine management control
-Finger-type rocker arms for reduced reciprocating mass and friction
-One-piece aluminum head casting for lighter weight
-Scavenging oil pump to maintain pressure during heavy cornering

The S50 B32 engine can be identified by the "BMW M Power" inscription on its cam cover, while the S54 motor contains only the "M" badge.

What types of electronic traction or stability control systems are fitted to the E36/7 M roadster?

All S50-powered M roadsters, as well as S52-powered examples produced before 9/98, are not equipped with any kind of electronic traction or stability control system. However, beginning with the 1999 model year, S52-powered M roadsters are equipped with Automatic Stability Control plus Traction (ASC+T) as standard equipment. The system applies the brakes and/or reduces engine power whenever sensors detect a loss of traction. ASC+T can be deactivated via a switch on the center console.

A more advanced system known as Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) is fitted to all S54-powered versions of the M roadster. In addition to minimizing traction loss like ASC+T, DSC compensates for oversteer and understeer through manipulation of each individual brake as determined by sensors measuring steering angle, vehicle speed, cornering force, brake pressure and the vehicle’s rotation around its vertical axis. The system is fully integrated with the BMW/Siemens MSS 54 engine management control, and its intervention can also be switched off via a console-mounted button.

How does the chassis of the S54-powered E36/7 M roadster differ from that of the earlier versions?

When the M roadster switched to the S54 engine (2/01 production), the chassis was upgraded to the even stiffer springs and shocks developed for the M coupe.

What differentiates the exterior of an S54-powered E36/7 M roadster from the earlier model?

Only two items differentiate the exterior of the S54-powered M roadster from that of the earlier versions: the Chrome Shadow finish of the M RoadStar alloy wheels and the subtly curved shape of the various "M" badges.

What differentiates the interior of an S54-powered E36/7 M roadster from that of the earlier models?

Compared to the earlier versions, the only significant alterations to the interior of the S54-powered M roadster are grey instrument faces with a revised typeface, plus a smaller rear-view mirror featuring a chrome surround and auto-dimming function.

c_w · Post by **c_w** » Tue 01 Sep, 2009 15:55

"Smaller rear view mirror" - not noticed that before.

Gazza · Post by **Gazza** » Tue 01 Sep, 2009 16:15

Slightly longer version there Jonttt

Smaller mirror ??? Auto dimming ??? not in the UK.

AW8 · Post by **AW8** » Tue 01 Sep, 2009 17:24

Jontt

Really enjoying reading this thread and genuinely pleased for you - also found the S50 S54 diffrences post very interesting- thanks

Hope that you truly enjoy v.f.m. ownership.

Jonttt · Post by **Jonttt** » Tue 01 Sep, 2009 19:27

Ah, we can play spot the difference.

The quotes came from this site

http://www.bmwmregistry.com/model_faq.php?id=16

for reference the S50 was the european model and S52 was the much less powerful USA model. Both were replaced in 2001 by the S54 model.

Given I'm no S54 expert (yet

) I never checked the rear view mirror but I shall give it my fullest attention when I pick the car up. I presume the references are to USA S54's so probably slightly different

Jonttt · Post by **Jonttt** » Tue 01 Sep, 2009 19:27

Also worth noting I got a full warranty report from BMW today on the car and I can confirm the fan/radiator repair was under warranty and included no engine damage

whiteminks · Post by **whiteminks** » Tue 01 Sep, 2009 19:39

And not on your list but Spunky M reliably informed me that it has 'fly by wire' technology for the accelerator ................ or was it the clutch?

makes it a lot smoother to drive anyway.

Austin Powers · Post by **Austin Powers** » Tue 01 Sep, 2009 20:15

Jonttt wrote: There are varying views as to which is the "better" car S50 or S54 as performance is very similar with traction control often being the deciding factor on "safey" grounds (although I was quoted only £400 to add a better system to my S50).

I would be very gratefull if you could spent a few words about this "better system" and how it works. Lack of ASC/DSC is one huge problem for me, since my car is also driven by my wife. And that is why I am saving for S54 model, but if an alternative exists, I might go for a lot cheaper S50.
Many thanks in advance.
BW
Austin

Jonttt · Post by **Jonttt** » Tue 01 Sep, 2009 20:47

Austen

The traction control system for S50 models is made by Racelogic.

It was a pretty expensive mod originally but based on the email below the price has dropped considerably as it is now "old" stock.

Do a google search on Racelogic Traction Control to find out more about the system. It was highly recommended by people on hear a few years ago.

It seems very good value at the quoted price

email extract:

From: - Hyper Sports & Racing Ltd [mailto:hypersportsracing@hotmail.com]
Sent: 11 March 2009 16:15
To: jonttt
Subject: RE: Traction Control Enquiry

Hi
Many thanks for your recent enquiry.
Both systems will cost the same!!
Around 350.00 pounds+vat
It is quite a lengthy process and we'd need the car for maybe a full day!!

________________________________________
From: jonttt
To: HyperSportsRacing@Hotmail.com
Subject: Traction Control Enquiry
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 23:06:07 +0000
Hello

I am thinking of having the Racelogic Traction control system fitted to my Z3m roadster (July 99 build)

Can you tell me how much it would cost to have the system fitted with and without the digital adjustment

Thanks

Alex L · Post by **Alex L** » Tue 01 Sep, 2009 21:35

Jonttt wrote: The quotes came from this site

http://www.bmwmregistry.com/model_faq.php?id=16

Congrats on the new purchase, look forward to seeing some more pics. I remember when David had it up for sale.

I'd also forgotten about the bm registry and appears I'm still on it..

http://www.bmwmregistry.com/detail.php?id=2955

siwilson · Post by **siwilson** » Tue 01 Sep, 2009 22:04

I found this a while back. Not sure where it came from though - DSC

Si.

yalden · Post by **yalden** » Wed 02 Sep, 2009 07:08

Cracking car... I look forward to seeing some better photos once it's all cleaned up!

Austin Powers · Post by **Austin Powers** » Wed 02 Sep, 2009 07:28

Jonttt, many thanks for explanation.

Sounds very interesting.

BW
Austin

Post by **Robert T** » Wed 02 Sep, 2009 10:31

Very nice, Jontt.

Ebola, sorry, Imola Red is definitely one of the best colours for a zed, after silver and steel grey of course.

Was cruise control not standard on the S54? Even if it isn't it is a lot easier to add because of the fly-by-wire (as opposed to S50's fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants) throttle.

I keep looking at S54s, but I always baulk at the insurance costs, and as I could never sell my current zed or Froggy, that would mean three cars and having to rent another garage.

Hope you have it all polished up in time for Tatton.

Cheers R.

Robin · Post by **Robin** » Wed 02 Sep, 2009 10:36

What I reckon is I know the car goes well. I had a job keeping up with DaveM on the 'Drive it like you stole it'

run he organised one glorious autumn day 4 or 5 years back.
I joined the run at Petersfield then onto Stockbridge & then Ringwood for the New Forest Cruise the following day.
Need to do more of those.
Sorry I'm drifting OT.

John Boy · Post by **John Boy** » Wed 02 Sep, 2009 10:59

Jonttt wrote:Also worth noting I got a full warranty report from BMW today on the car and I can confirm the fan/radiator repair was under warranty and included no engine damage

That failure had the effect of DavidM having to show everyone what aNissan X Trail could do when embedded in a group of Zeds driving round Scotland!!

(Surprisingly quick, but remeber David organised the afore mentioned 'Drive it like you stole it' run!

Jonttt · Post by **Jonttt** » Wed 02 Sep, 2009 11:57

Picking it up tonight, girlfriend not happy as I will spend the next few days cleaning it

I would love to know more about the car and the mods David put on there (I have a feeling the clutch is not standard) but I may find out more when I have had a chance to look through the mountain of old paperwork with it.

I've just totted up £1,000 worth of strong strut stuff thats on the car

PVR · Post by **PVR** » Wed 02 Sep, 2009 12:05

Upgrade on the girlfriend as well?

I have seen the car a lot during it's life, and it is indeed very nice.

Robin · Post by **Robin** » Wed 02 Sep, 2009 13:16

Dave is contactable on http://www.zed-cars.eu/discussion/default.aspx

aj2007 · Post by **aj2007** » Wed 02 Sep, 2009 14:07

Hi Jontt

Very nice purchase, I am very envious

The car was featured in December 2004 Total BMWMagazine, the spec it shows in the magazine as follows:

18" Breyton Magic racing Wheels
Butt Strut and Strong Strut
Eisenmann Exhaust
Extra Imola Red Leather on Armrests,steering wheel tabs and top boxcover
K&N airfilter
Upgraded JVC Audio
AC Schnitzer Pedals, roll hoops,gear knob, handbrake handle, short shift
Z8 Washer Jets
Hoen XenonMatch Bulbs
Rogue Engineering Clutch Stop

It looks a beauty, enjoy

Regards
Ade

Jonttt · Post by **Jonttt** » Wed 02 Sep, 2009 14:25

Cheers Ade, thats great info just need to try and get a copy of the magazine now