Front Seat Lift Spacers / Seat Lifters

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pingu
Joined: Fri 30 Apr, 2004 17:01
Posts: 3337

  M roadster S50

Front Seat Lift Spacers / Seat Lifters

Post by pingu » Wed 01 Mar, 2017 21:01



https://youtu.be/X8TwJbRowKY

At the dock of the bay soon...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/sony_jim/m.html?

If not, PM me for details.
Last edited by pingu on Sat 06 May, 2017 20:08, edited 2 times in total.
Pingu

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xtLSport
Joined: Mon 04 Apr, 2005 00:49
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  Z3 roadster 3.0i

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by xtLSport » Wed 01 Mar, 2017 22:16

looks great, could you do a thicker version?
I personally use those: https://thayermotorsports.com/products/ ... 5904036359

Image

and I think they are much higher, but I feel a insecure to have just a bit of steel with no base holding all the weight of the seat.

Would you be able to make one much thicker?
I'd really like one like yours which feels more safe, as it supports part of the rail, but I'd like it twice as high, or at least 1,5 times high.
The difference is significant:

Image

Can you make it??

Thanks

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pingu
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Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by pingu » Wed 01 Mar, 2017 22:37

I looked at the Thayler ones and decided that they put too much pressure on the floor.

The original area in contact with the carpet is 2400 sq mm.

The area in contact with the carpet in the Thayler solution is at most 500 sq mm - nearly five times the pressure on the carpet and hence the floor.


With regard to making them much thicker there are three problems that I can see

1. The spacer will need to be wedged in order to maintain full contact with both the seat base and the carpet.
2. The length of the nut may become an issue. If it is too long, it could shear when it is tightened.
3. The angle the seat makes with the floor will become so great that the hole in the seat will no longer align with the floor stud. The floor stud will then be bent out of position.
xtLSport wrote:Can you make it??
I could make the Thayler solution with great ease. It is just a collection of stuff you can buy from Screwfix.

I think that a better solution would be to combine the two solutions. In order to do that, I would need to measure the Thayler solution in place.

A much better solution would be to supply different lengths of hollow nuts and the corresponding spacer blocks - I shall investigate this :D
Pingu

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xtLSport
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  Z3 roadster 3.0i

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by xtLSport » Thu 02 Mar, 2017 08:41

pingu wrote:I looked at the Thayler ones and decided that they put too much pressure on the floor.

The original area in contact with the carpet is 2400 sq mm.

The area in contact with the carpet in the Thayler solution is at most 500 sq mm - nearly five times the pressure on the carpet and hence the floor.


With regard to making them much thicker there are three problems that I can see

1. The spacer will need to be wedged in order to maintain full contact with both the seat base and the carpet.
2. The length of the nut may become an issue. If it is too long, it could shear when it is tightened.
3. The angle the seat makes with the floor will become so great that the hole in the seat will no longer align with the floor stud. The floor stud will then be bent out of position.
xtLSport wrote:Can you make it??
I could make the Thayler solution with great ease. It is just a collection of stuff you can buy from Screwfix.

I think that a better solution would be to combine the two solutions. In order to do that, I would need to measure the Thayler solution in place.

A much better solution would be to supply different lengths of hollow nuts and the corresponding spacer blocks - I shall investigate this :D
Thanks for your constructive answer!
The ideal solution to me would be to make a thicker version of yours, maybe not twice as thick, but just some more... That would mean your spacer would be also longer to accomodate the rail further away. But not even sure that's really needed.

As you can see in Thayer's picture the space between rail and floor is almost as much as the rail is wide. So, almost a square.
In your solution it's half this heigt, or less. Which is already an improvement, but I prefer it to be a little higher.

If you manage to make one which is a bit thicker and longer, I'll be a customer for my 2 Z's ;)
And also can propose them on my website - maybe you know it.
:wink:

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pingu
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Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by pingu » Thu 02 Mar, 2017 08:48

I'm just about to go outside and investigate a solution :D .
Last edited by pingu on Fri 03 Mar, 2017 13:54, edited 1 time in total.
Pingu

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pingu
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Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by pingu » Fri 03 Mar, 2017 13:54

pingu wrote:I'm just about to go outside and investigate a solution :D .
Further investigation tells me that the Thayler solution actually changes the design of the seat base mounting.

The original solution PULLS the stud. In the event of the seat base being forced downward, the load is spread over an area of 2400 sq mm.

The Thayler solution uses the stud as a locator and the stud is not being pulled towards the seat, it is being used to hold the hollow nut in place. In the event of the seat base being forced downward, the load is spread over the area of the washer below the hollow nut (500 sq mm).


My solution is to use the spacer to take the weight of the seat base, and use the Thayler solution to locate the spacer and the seat base. As there will be a slight gap between the hollow nut and the seat base, the hollow nut will be an extension of the floor stud. In my solution, the stud will be PULLED.

I forgot to show the carpet in the sketch, but here is the solution for the thick spacers...

Image
................................. floor stud


I've tested the solution using scraps and multiple spacers. At the moment the 3D printer is rattling away making a 23mm spacer. I'll have to test it for strength once it's completed - a firm thump with a 14lb sledge should be a good test :D .
Pingu

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xtLSport
Joined: Mon 04 Apr, 2005 00:49
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  Z3 roadster 3.0i

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by xtLSport » Fri 03 Mar, 2017 22:33

Very interesting, but not sure i'm getting it 100%.
So you would keep the thayer solution and just add two spacer on both sides of the thayer solution, to support the weight of the seat?
Or would you create a 1 piece spacer that is screwed on the stud and do a hybrid version of both?

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pingu
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  M roadster S50

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by pingu » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 00:16

xtLSport wrote:Very interesting, but not sure i'm getting it 100%.
So you would keep the thayer solution and just add two spacer on both sides of the thayer solution, to support the weight of the seat?
Or would you create a 1 piece spacer that is screwed on the stud and do a hybrid version of both?
Notice the space between the "hollow nut" and the "original nut" on the sketch. This is very important because it totally changes the design.

Image

The red arrows are the force "path" for each solution.

In the Thayler solution, the forces travel from - the seat to the washer - to the hollow nut and upper stud - (*) -to the floor stud and hollow nut - to the lower washer and floor stud - to the floor.
(*) if there is a gap between the two studs the forces at this point will only go through the hollow nut

In the Pingu solution, the forces travel from - the seat to the spacer - to the carpet - to the floor.

The most important thing to notice about the two sketches is the "graphs". The area under the curve is the force and the area would be the same for both solutions as the force (weight) of the seat is the same. The "height" of the curve is the stress. As you can see, the shape of the Thayler solution means that the stress must be much greater than the Pingu solution - at least 2400/500 (nearly 5) times greater.

It's not easy explaining things like this over t'internet :)
Pingu

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pingu
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Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by pingu » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 10:52

Failed the sledge hammer test - I need to reinforce the solution.
Pingu

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pingu
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Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by pingu » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 16:55

Solution that passes the sledge test...


https://youtu.be/ZaY7Gej0Z9k
Pingu

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pingu
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Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by pingu » Mon 06 Mar, 2017 14:40

I've decided that the solution above is too much of a faff, so I've ordered some aluminium and I'm going to make some spacers from that.
Pingu

Z3Jeremy
Joined: Sun 23 Jun, 2013 09:40
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  Z3 roadster 1.9i

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by Z3Jeremy » Mon 06 Mar, 2017 19:38

Am i missing the point? are you aware the seat height is electrically adjustable or are you abnormally short? apologies if so then maybe a cushion is a simpler solution, Jeremy..

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pingu
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Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by pingu » Mon 06 Mar, 2017 20:45

Z3Jeremy wrote:Am i missing the point? are you aware the seat height is electrically adjustable or are you abnormally short? apologies if so then maybe a cushion is a simpler solution, Jeremy..
The height adjustment raises the front and rear of the seat equally.

These seat spacers only raise the front.
Pingu

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c_w
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Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by c_w » Wed 08 Mar, 2017 16:33

Z3Jeremy wrote:Am i missing the point? are you aware the seat height is electrically adjustable or are you abnormally short? apologies if so then maybe a cushion is a simpler solution, Jeremy..
As above reply, the seats are a little on the horizontal side, but with the front lifted the seats become much more supportive and comfortable.

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xtLSport
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  Z3 roadster 3.0i

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by xtLSport » Fri 10 Mar, 2017 10:37

pingu wrote:Solution that passes the sledge test...


https://youtu.be/ZaY7Gej0Z9k
Amazing job man!!!
keep it going, as I mentioned I am interested in the final solution, I think you got the height right.
Now it's a matter of finding the perfect set-up between the plastic part and the metal housing, but I think you are close to it!
:wink:

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pingu
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Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by pingu » Fri 10 Mar, 2017 11:47

I've made a prototype that I'm happy with :D . I just have to do the admin.

I'll post up the details soon.
Pingu

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xtLSport
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Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by xtLSport » Fri 10 Mar, 2017 19:19

great! have you tested it?
i'll be waiting for the update :squeeze:

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xtLSport
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Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by xtLSport » Sun 02 Apr, 2017 20:57

hey @pingu, any news? :)

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pingu
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Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by pingu » Mon 03 Apr, 2017 03:38

xtLSport wrote:hey @pingu, any news? :)
I've decided to give 4 options for sizes.

10mm
15mm
20mm
25mm

I've made a prototype for each and I finished the video about 2 minutes ago. It's uploading at the moment and I'll publish it tomorrow (hopefully).

-----------------------

Tomorrow is here!!!



https://youtu.be/mdWoQ1wv6yE
Pingu

bentley-boy
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  blank

Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by bentley-boy » Mon 10 Apr, 2017 17:13

That looks nicely engineered avoiding high loading on a small area the problem with other versions, don't want any fractured floors!! Have you arrived at a price for 25mm ones? That said what is your suggested height, I know it's a personal one. Surprised no-one else has expressed interest.

BB

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pingu
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Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by pingu » Mon 10 Apr, 2017 20:38

bentley-boy wrote:That looks nicely engineered avoiding high loading on a small area the problem with other versions, don't want any fractured floors!! Have you arrived at a price for 25mm ones? That said what is your suggested height, I know it's a personal one. Surprised no-one else has expressed interest.

BB
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/332173267062

It will cost you £22.50 as there is a 25% discount on the first order. The reason is that they are prototypes and are "scarred" where I may have had to make adjustments to sizes, etc., but they are fully functional.

My preference is for either the 10mm, 15mm or the 20mm. I think 25mm is too "laid back", but it is perfectly functional.

I suggest that you fit a range of spacers (such as pieces of wood) under the seat to find the height that suits you best.
Pingu

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pingu
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Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by pingu » Thu 13 Apr, 2017 11:58

I've just made some plastic gauges that can be used to test the four heights.

They were a pain to make as they took 24 hours on a 3D printer and the print was only successful on the third attempt :head: .

For you to borrow them, all I ask is that you gift me (via PayPal) the £2:60 postage and return them when finished using the label and stamp provided.

PM me if you are interested.

Image

There are enough gauges for one seat to range from 10mm to 25mm. The first gauge is the 10mm gauge and each of the others adds on 5mm.

Instructions
Pingu

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xtLSport
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Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by xtLSport » Sat 15 Apr, 2017 21:42

Congratulations pingu!! Looks great.
That is great, i will purchase a 25mm kit right now.

edit: just purchased it ;)

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pingu
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Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by pingu » Sun 16 Apr, 2017 00:23

xtLSport wrote:Congratulations pingu!! Looks great.
That is great, i will purchase a 25mm kit right now.

edit: just purchased it ;)
Thanks

I can't post them until Tuesday as the Post Office is closed due to public holiday. I've refunded you £7.50 as you were the first to buy and get a 25% discount :) .
Pingu

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xtLSport
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Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by xtLSport » Sun 16 Apr, 2017 20:40

great! no hurries.

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pingu
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Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by pingu » Sun 16 Apr, 2017 23:40

At last...

10mm Spacers

15mm Spacers

20mm Spacers

25mm Spacers

Gauge Kit (free to borrow - you just pay for postage)
Pingu

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Brian H
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Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by Brian H » Mon 17 Apr, 2017 21:32

Great work Pingu, nice kit of parts :)

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Tufarlian
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Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by Tufarlian » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 11:59

My kit arrived today.

Looks very nicely made. :)

Seat is coming out to have the bolster refurb'ed next week so it will go back in with the kit.

Thanks
Mark

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pingu
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Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by pingu » Wed 19 Apr, 2017 12:05

Tufarlian wrote:My kit arrived today.

Looks very nicely made. :)

Seat is coming out to have the bolster refurb'ed next week so it will go back in with the kit.

Thanks
Mark
Any problems or suggestions for improvement, let me know :thumb:
Pingu

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xtLSport
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Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by xtLSport » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 21:55

I just received my kit, I will install it this weekend!
By the way, you are going to receive a couple of orders from my Z3 friends in holland and spain ;)

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pingu
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Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers

Post by pingu » Thu 27 Apr, 2017 02:50

xtLSport wrote:I just received my kit, I will install it this weekend!
By the way, you are going to receive a couple of orders from my Z3 friends in holland and spain ;)
Let me know how you get on.

I have the material to make more kits if I run out of stock, but it may take about a week to make another batch.

I'm happy to sell at a 10% discount off eBay using PayPal gifting, but I understand if they want the security of eBay.
Pingu

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pingu
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Re: Front Seat Lift Spacers / Seat Lifters

Post by pingu » Sat 06 May, 2017 20:13

I made a gif to show how the tilted seat compares to the original...

Image
Pingu

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