Will a 330i inlet manifold bolt straight onto my facelift 1999 2.8 z3? Has anybody done this and what sort of gains can I expect?
Cheers
M52TU Manifold conversion
Funny you should ask this question as I've been doing some research on this after reading in a magazine that BMW may have fitted a larger inlet manifold to the 2.5 M52TU engine, which could be why it puts out 192bhp almost what a 2.8 does.
So checking part numbers my TIS disc I came up with the fact that the inlet manifold is the same on all 6cyl engines except the 2.2 and 2.5 which is a different part number. Whether it is a larger bore I don't know im trying to track one down.
While I was at it I checked part numbers on other induction parts ie throttle body, air sensor, exhaust manifold and there all the same on the Z range anyway.
Steve
So checking part numbers my TIS disc I came up with the fact that the inlet manifold is the same on all 6cyl engines except the 2.2 and 2.5 which is a different part number. Whether it is a larger bore I don't know im trying to track one down.
While I was at it I checked part numbers on other induction parts ie throttle body, air sensor, exhaust manifold and there all the same on the Z range anyway.
Steve
99 2.0 Topaz Individual
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Guest
3 Litre Inlet Manifold
I have been thinking of this conversion for a couple of years, and will give it a try this winter.
My ETK shows that the E46 range 2.0, 2.3 and 2.8 engines (and the 2.8 Z3) use one manifold, while the E46 2.5 and 3.0 engines use a different item.
I asked alpina527 about fitting the M50 2.5 manifold (as on the E30 325i etc) which is a very popular mod to the single-VANOS 2.8, but it seems the different position of the throttle body etc fouls the underbonnet layout of a Sept 98-onwards double-VANOS model.
I have never examined the E46 2.5 engine, but the manifold used on the 3 litre Zed and 330 slaoon etc are obvioulsy of the correct larger bore type, and the underbonnet layout of the 3 litre Zed looks to be the same as mine.
Getting hold of a used manifold seems impossible, so I will probably buy a new one, which even at £300 is cheap power. The DISA valve in the centre of the manifold looks different, and I may have to buy a new one if the original is too small.
I'm currently finishing the suspension modds, which wil lbe followed by a summer's driving in the French Alps, so will give it a go this winter, and report back!
My ETK shows that the E46 range 2.0, 2.3 and 2.8 engines (and the 2.8 Z3) use one manifold, while the E46 2.5 and 3.0 engines use a different item.
I asked alpina527 about fitting the M50 2.5 manifold (as on the E30 325i etc) which is a very popular mod to the single-VANOS 2.8, but it seems the different position of the throttle body etc fouls the underbonnet layout of a Sept 98-onwards double-VANOS model.
I have never examined the E46 2.5 engine, but the manifold used on the 3 litre Zed and 330 slaoon etc are obvioulsy of the correct larger bore type, and the underbonnet layout of the 3 litre Zed looks to be the same as mine.
Getting hold of a used manifold seems impossible, so I will probably buy a new one, which even at £300 is cheap power. The DISA valve in the centre of the manifold looks different, and I may have to buy a new one if the original is too small.
I'm currently finishing the suspension modds, which wil lbe followed by a summer's driving in the French Alps, so will give it a go this winter, and report back!
Well, can't help with the time, but we really should have set up a Z3 R&D fund a long time ago!!!
Let us know how you get on with this
I've always found it extremely weird that the 2.8 is a whole 40 ponies less than the 3.0 considering the small difference in engine capacity.
I imagine that a larger manifold coupled with a good remap would take the 2.8 very close to the 3.0 in terms of power.
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What about the throttle though? The M52TU has a hybrid cable/electronic throttle system, where as the M54 has a fully electronic throttle system (no cable).
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I found this on e46fanatics:
The thread I was reading is HERE
Let us know how you get on with this
I've always found it extremely weird that the 2.8 is a whole 40 ponies less than the 3.0 considering the small difference in engine capacity.I imagine that a larger manifold coupled with a good remap would take the 2.8 very close to the 3.0 in terms of power.
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What about the throttle though? The M52TU has a hybrid cable/electronic throttle system, where as the M54 has a fully electronic throttle system (no cable).
--edit 2--
I found this on e46fanatics:
Also in the same thread, it is mentioned that the 325 and 330 have different throttle bodies (330 is larger):
The M54 (325/330) mani will bolt right on to the m52tu. You WILL need to fabricate a TB adapter plate, and I believe you'll need the DISA to go with the mani you purchase. I know for a fact the 330 disa is larger, but I'm not 100% if the 325 and 328 use the same one. Everything else should bolt right up, including the fuel rail.
What's the size of the 2.8 M52 TB then?The 325 TB measures 70mm c/c and the 330 measures 76mm c/c.
The thread I was reading is HERE
wwwwOOOff!!!
As far as I am aware of the only way to do this type of upgrade is with the Alpina B3 manifold. Try to get hold of a secondhand one or try these guys down under: http://www.alpinaaustralia.com.au/main.htm
i just fitted the manifold & BBTB kit to my 2.8 (single vanos) m52TU
Turned out my car was only a few months before they switched to dual vanos.
I bought the kit from Ian and he has been a godsend in help. I had one small issue that turned out was because of an air pipe that the garage knackered up. other then that the car runs sweat as a nut.
Ian said to give it a week to let the car settle down and adjust to it all. I would say that its a great mod. it wasnt until i started to compare it to stats from before that i really noticed the difference.
The throttle response and bottom end torque is alot better. I can now still go with the flow of traffic to work and still be overtaking yet hardly pulling revs. yet if you want to open it up then it really goes. By driving sensible i even noticed better fuel economy...yet if you do boot it, it will drop.
Ian was right in saying that it would take a week and you would notice it get better every day....I thought "yeah ok the ecu etc will do it right away" he was right.
I would say that if you can have this done...GET IT DONE......I'm converted. just want a rolling road session now to see what it has done.
Turned out my car was only a few months before they switched to dual vanos.
I bought the kit from Ian and he has been a godsend in help. I had one small issue that turned out was because of an air pipe that the garage knackered up. other then that the car runs sweat as a nut.
Ian said to give it a week to let the car settle down and adjust to it all. I would say that its a great mod. it wasnt until i started to compare it to stats from before that i really noticed the difference.
The throttle response and bottom end torque is alot better. I can now still go with the flow of traffic to work and still be overtaking yet hardly pulling revs. yet if you want to open it up then it really goes. By driving sensible i even noticed better fuel economy...yet if you do boot it, it will drop.
Ian was right in saying that it would take a week and you would notice it get better every day....I thought "yeah ok the ecu etc will do it right away" he was right.
I would say that if you can have this done...GET IT DONE......I'm converted. just want a rolling road session now to see what it has done.
What's up with it? It's better than the single vanos with this inlet conversion IMO, my 1999 2.8 Z3 was very quick.Mikemac wrote:Why isnt my 2.8 Single Vanos!!!!!
Anyone had any progress for us poor twin vanos people?
My brother had a E36 328i Sport with the single vanos engine and he did the 325i manifold conversion, it was better but it still didn't pull at high revs as well as the double vanos engine in the Z3, in fact I would say it goes largely breathless over 5500rpm.
Really? That does surprise me. I have not driven a 3.0 or single Vanos beemer so cant comment on the difference.I agree. My 3.0 is noticeably more urgent at the top end of the revs than my 2.8 was
Just out of interest, what is the 0-60 and top speed on a 3.0? Does the 35 odd extra bhp make it that much quicker that the 2.8 Double?
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Rubber-Ducky
- Joined: Wed 02 Jan, 2008 16:35
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Enough sobbing - I believe it can be done with the following:Mikemac wrote:Why isnt my 2.8 Single Vanos!!!!!
Anyone had any progress for us poor twin vanos people?
1) M54 325 manifold (with DISA) - I ordered a 2nd hand one today from the Parts Gateway for £68.
2) Throttle Body adapter plate http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/de ... TEN9990850 available in the UK from Simpson Motorsport on 01594 841299.
Hopefully this will all bolt together - I'll keep you posted when it all arrives...
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Rubber-Ducky
- Joined: Wed 02 Jan, 2008 16:35
- Posts: 22
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Rubber-Ducky
- Joined: Wed 02 Jan, 2008 16:35
- Posts: 22
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Finally got round to fitting this over the weekend and the difference is quite pronounced. The engine pulls hard all the way to the red line, no longer running out of puff at higher revs like before.
Fitting is fiddly, but not overly difficult. I guess it took me a total of about 5-6 hours. Except for the throttle body, the M54b25 manifold is a straight swap for the M52TU manifold.
The basic removal process is:
1) Remove airbox, MAF sensor and inlet piping.
2) Remove DISA, throttle body and idle control valve.
3) Unbolt fuel rail (4 x 10mm bolts) and pull it out with the injectors still attached.
4) Unbolt manifold (9 x 11mm nuts and 1 x 16mm nut under the throttle body).
5) Undo the various breather hoses in order to free the manifold from the engine.
Fitting the TB to the M54 manifold is a bit of a pain. I used the Turner Motorsport adapter plate, but I couldn't get the M52 TB to fit with it so I had to grind part of the TB down and mount it using only 2 diagonal bolts, keeping it orientated the same way as before. This provided sufficient clearance for the idle control valve.
You can see how much bigger the M54 manifold is compared to the M52TU one:
Here's the two DISAs (M52TU on the left, M54 on the right):
The halfway point:
M54 manifold with Turner Motorsports adapter plate fitted:
Throttle body with the corner ground down to provide sufficient clearance for the idle control valve:
Other than the mounting of the TB, fitting is the reverse of removal. I had to adjust the throttle cable slightly, but that only took a couple of minutes.
I'm really pleased with the results for 100 odd quid and imagine it will only get better as the ECU recalibrates itself over the next few outings.
Next step is a remap, I guess...
Fitting is fiddly, but not overly difficult. I guess it took me a total of about 5-6 hours. Except for the throttle body, the M54b25 manifold is a straight swap for the M52TU manifold.
The basic removal process is:
1) Remove airbox, MAF sensor and inlet piping.
2) Remove DISA, throttle body and idle control valve.
3) Unbolt fuel rail (4 x 10mm bolts) and pull it out with the injectors still attached.
4) Unbolt manifold (9 x 11mm nuts and 1 x 16mm nut under the throttle body).
5) Undo the various breather hoses in order to free the manifold from the engine.
Fitting the TB to the M54 manifold is a bit of a pain. I used the Turner Motorsport adapter plate, but I couldn't get the M52 TB to fit with it so I had to grind part of the TB down and mount it using only 2 diagonal bolts, keeping it orientated the same way as before. This provided sufficient clearance for the idle control valve.
You can see how much bigger the M54 manifold is compared to the M52TU one:
Here's the two DISAs (M52TU on the left, M54 on the right):
The halfway point:
M54 manifold with Turner Motorsports adapter plate fitted:
Throttle body with the corner ground down to provide sufficient clearance for the idle control valve:
Other than the mounting of the TB, fitting is the reverse of removal. I had to adjust the throttle cable slightly, but that only took a couple of minutes.
I'm really pleased with the results for 100 odd quid and imagine it will only get better as the ECU recalibrates itself over the next few outings.
Next step is a remap, I guess...
i would like to change the exhaust manifold just not looking for all the effort which seems inlcuded in this,
as for the power output the 328 has significantly more torque than the 325 the reasoning for the limit is regulations in germany mean producing cars over 194 bhp cause a significant tax increase which is why they are limited and hence the large jump to the 3.0....
as for the power output the 328 has significantly more torque than the 325 the reasoning for the limit is regulations in germany mean producing cars over 194 bhp cause a significant tax increase which is why they are limited and hence the large jump to the 3.0....
Did you not read the whole thread? Like three posts above yours?MtechTone wrote:Has anyone else actually done this conversion on their M52TU?
Use the Search button before posting newbie questions about hard tops and fitting kits, footwell speaker amps, water in the boot, hood maintainance and those horrific angel eyes. We get like 10 threads a week on the same subject, it's obvious that you haven't searched.
Yea yea i know... but howcome it seems nobody else has bothered?estocks wrote:Did you not read the whole thread? Like three posts above yours?MtechTone wrote:Has anyone else actually done this conversion on their M52TU?
Reason I'm asking is I'm considering a 2.8 Z3 and would very much like to do the above, or similar. Would just be nice to hear some more feedback...?
It's a pretty well known conversion to improve on E36's. I don't think more than a few have done it here, but I think many have been don on the larger BMW forums. Rmember that the 2.8 was available in M52 and M52TU in the Z3, and there may be a difference in this conversion for that. 
Use the Search button before posting newbie questions about hard tops and fitting kits, footwell speaker amps, water in the boot, hood maintainance and those horrific angel eyes. We get like 10 threads a week on the same subject, it's obvious that you haven't searched.
Yea the M50 manifold makes quite a difference to the M52, I know as I have an M52B28 with this mod in my compact.estocks wrote:It's a pretty well known conversion to improve on E36's. I don't think more than a few have done it here, but I think many have been don on the larger BMW forums. Rmember that the 2.8 was available in M52 and M52TU in the Z3, and there may be a difference in this conversion for that.
The stock M52 feels quite strangled in the higher revs. I don't know how the TU feels in comparison as I haven't driven one yet.
So if an M54B25 manifold on an M52TU has that much of an affect... that's good!
But, I'd still be keen to investigate whether the B30's manifold ports are even larger. Although, of course if the B25's manifold ports perfectly match the inlet ports on the head of the TU then going larger would be pointless, if not detrimental. If ya follow?
Got it. Although from what I read the standard 6 pot manifold was midifeied to make the 325 faster than a competitor, rather than the manifold getting better as cc increased.
Use the Search button before posting newbie questions about hard tops and fitting kits, footwell speaker amps, water in the boot, hood maintainance and those horrific angel eyes. We get like 10 threads a week on the same subject, it's obvious that you haven't searched.
I guess I'll have to do some more digging...
