Final Drive unit failure - Differential bracket

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Ballie
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Post by Ballie » Mon 16 Feb, 2009 21:15

This might seem like a stupid question. I asked the previous owner about what work he had done on the car whilst he had it. He said he had the rear diff mount done at bmw. Is that the same thing? As for mechanical issuses. Im usless. :dunce:
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Jonttt
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Post by Jonttt » Tue 17 Feb, 2009 10:17

Ballie

Yep. The rear Differential is mounted via a bracket (or mount) to the rear subframe cross member.

So sounds like you have had the work done :D

When I get my car back I will take pictures of the boot "spot" welds as I'm expecting this to be one of the easily identifiable areas to see if work has been carried out. Otherwise you would have to get under the car to see if you can spot remedial works having been carried out (its not really possible to see properly by just "sticking your head under" :shock: )

Apparently (and I will soon find out) you get no paperwork from BMW as a record of this work being carried out. I am going to try and get the bodyshop to photocopy the job sheet for me when I pick up the car.

If I do I will post it on here :wink:
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Post by Jonttt » Thu 19 Feb, 2009 13:32

In the spirit of keeping this thread up to date...

Had a text message from BMW today stating that my car is expected to be complete next Wednesday.

If so that will mean they had it 1.5 weeks which is in line with peoples previous experience for this work.

Once again BMW have been efficient in letting me know before I had to chase them in a few days :D

.... but I won't have my car back this weekend :bawl: but the weather is not supposed to be very good :bawl: so will have to take the girlfriend to Cheshire Oaks shopping :bawl: :bawl: :bawl: :head:
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Post by Jonttt » Tue 24 Feb, 2009 11:18

Got a phone call from BMW this morning saying that my car is ready for collection :drive

Will pick it up tonight and post full update :D
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diff bracket problem

Post by Boysie » Tue 24 Feb, 2009 13:35

Hi

After reading this
I decided to look in the boot of my car horror
yes i have a rust mark around 1 spot weld that's only "what I can see"

My car has done 27k

I am gutted

I was told by munich legends to book my car in to the dealers
as they had heard of this problem and been told BMW had recognised
to have the bracket checked and its going in on friday

but now I feel I will be on mission
Am in a position to say its being done to another car with same problem
under warrranty
but i have no proof


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Post by Jonttt » Tue 24 Feb, 2009 14:13

Ray

Interesting re your cars low mileage. What year was it made as post Dec 99 cars where supposedly fitted with a stronger bracket?

I have been pm'd by another member who has identified the problem following my post.

He has emailed the guy at BMW customer services I dealt with and is awaiting a reponse.

In case anyoe else wants to go down this route the details are as follows:
BMW UK Customer Service
Richard Stracey
0870 5050160 option 2

email address is on one of my previous posts on this thread. My name is John Turner if you want to quote it. Just say you are a member of the same Z3 car club :wink: and you have the same symptoms as mine and can they arrange to have car inspected.

Looks like he will be well used to getting the calls soon :D

Don't pay for any inspection to be done. If your dealer won't do it for free then contact BMW Customer Services first to get them to arrange for free. Let the dealer know this is a £3k+ fully BMW funded "product enhancement" and they should be keener for your business (as they are not selling anything, warranty claims have gone through the roof!). Ideally as happened in my case you want BMW UK to phone your dealer to confirm the problem.

Also if its your daily drive don't forget to ask for a replacement car to be included in their quote to BMW.

I'm picking mine up later and will try and get some documentary evidence I can post on here for people to use :rtm:
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Post by Boysie » Tue 24 Feb, 2009 14:43

Hi John

After my find in the boot
i contacted the dealer and told him of my find
He assured me that they wil take photos and present to BMW
i told him my concern and said he would help me in everyway including supplying a courtesy car

Fingers crossed

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Post by Jonttt » Tue 24 Feb, 2009 15:46

Looks like you have a dealer who has dealt with this before and knows what to do :D .

The only problem I experienced was the initial dealer before BMW involvement and I think this is because they genuinely have never dealt with this problem before. I don't think there will be many instances where BMW would pay for work 100% on a 9 year old car! I can't really blame the dealer for wanting to charge me initially.

Off to dealer now to collect mine :D
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Post by EDD57 » Tue 24 Feb, 2009 18:44

my car was a 2000 face lift and had 2 poped spots so im not sure about the later bracket
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Post by Jonttt » Tue 24 Feb, 2009 19:23

EDD57 wrote:my car was a 2000 face lift and had 2 poped spots so im not sure about the later bracket
Mine is a 2000 (W plate) facelift but manufactured in mid 2009 (facelift was 04/99). New bracket was apparently fitted from Dec 99.
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Post by Jonttt » Tue 24 Feb, 2009 19:44

Well picked up my repaired car tonight.

I am well chuffed :D :D :D

When I arrived I was handed the keys and no paperwork (as expected) so I asked if I could have some paperwork to prove work had been carried out by BMW if I sell the car. The receptionist said no problem and started to write out a stamped BMW Approved Warranty certificate. I heard the guy I had been dealing with whisper to her "I didn't think we gave warranties with these". She replied "yes we do" and continued writing :D . He then turned back to me and volunteered a copy of the original quotation. I said thats fine. When I read the quote it was addressed to me as if they had quoted for an insurance repair, giving some detail of the work to be carried out and parts to be replaced. It did not state that the repair had been approved and paid for by BMW. I asked if I could have confirmation that BMW had paid for the work and was told that they could not give me that. I did not want to push it too much as they had been great with me and I was surprised I had got anything at all based on previous posts.

I will scan in the docs I have and post them here later in the week for reference.

Oh and for confirmation I have not paid a penny for any of this work :D

I only had chance to drive car the 2 miles home in heavy traffic so can't tell if there is any difference to the drive yet.

Car was exceptionally clean when I picked it up (they had obviously done more than the usual jet wash :D )

I had a quick look in the boot and it has been completely refinished. I had a bit of a smirk on my face because they have sealed over where the spot welds can usually be seen across the cross member. Means that I cannot see if they have spot or seam welded. Also had a quick look under. The whole of the subframe has been refinished and looks brand new. The skeptic in me would say that "they have just painted over" but it is obvious that the rear has been completely stripped and painted before all parts have been replaced.

I'm going to take the car into my local indie next month to get some jobs done I'm not confident of doing myself (valve clearences, etc...) so will get him to confirm that all is Aok. He had already told me that one of the Anti Roll Bar brackets needed replacing (quite common apparently) so will be interesting to see if this has been done by BMW when they put everything back.

Will try and give a more thorough inspection myself at the weekend and post some pictures.

Great to have the car back! To show how shallow I am its great having an underside that looks like new :D

Now where is that sun 8-)
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Post by paul46rider » Tue 24 Feb, 2009 19:49

that awesome, i so hope BMW get back to me this week and help me out, i've yet to hear anything from them

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Post by Jonttt » Tue 24 Feb, 2009 20:47

Paul

did you get a confirmation of receipt email back from them?
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Post by paul46rider » Tue 24 Feb, 2009 21:06

yes i did mate, i got that back on sunday night so i'm guessing its just a automated response

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Post by Jonttt » Thu 26 Feb, 2009 09:53

Pictures of inside boot
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Post by Jonttt » Thu 26 Feb, 2009 10:37

And here are the docs I received as promised.

On reading the small print on the warranty certificate it confirms I have a 3 year warranty on the repair :D I think thats the bit they should not have given me but I hav it in writing now (There is a dealer stamp on there but it does not show on the scan)

I took the car out for a bit of a blast yesturday. To be honest I didn't really notice any dfference to the drive. I thought the car drove well before. But not often you get something for nothing :D
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Post by Althulas » Thu 26 Feb, 2009 12:52

Nice to see a +ve result from BMW.

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Post by Boysie » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 17:17

Hi all

I have just come back from the BMW dealers.
They looked at the car and i pointed out one suspect weld failure in the boot.
There comment was, there a mark on one weld which they said was or could have been surface rust, there was no visual signs of structural movement undereath or in the boot of the car.
i felt i couldnt say to much, or say" i know somebody who has had it done".
To be fair the weld failures on here in photos are so obvious.
The head man there said he would put in a claim with photos to BWM
and see what reponse they get.
He said not all cars have this problem
I said would this go on the cars record so i could at a later, revise the situation, he felt by me bringing it to there attention was good at this stage
I personally feel with such a low mileage this problem has not yet happened when it does, maybe the i will turn green and get mean :evil: :evil: :twisted: :twisted:


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Post by paul46rider » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 17:44

BMW are ajoke, they aren't even interessted at looking at our car cos its over 10 years old

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Post by Jonttt » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 17:53

Boysie

Remember this is a stress related failure caused by the Differential transferring drive form the engine to the rear wheels and the associated torque stresses generated. The first signs are spot weld failure /differential bracket cracking. The failures get worse with eventually the cross member coming adrift from the subframe ie as one part fails more stresses are placed on other parts which then start to fail , a classic domino effect.

Without being alarmised 1 spot weld failure in the boot can only be caused by these stresses and is the first sign that this process is starting. If it has rusted then it has failed ie water has entered through the weld from beneath the car to cause the rust.

As this sems to be very early stage I think you are correct to make sure there is a record that you have raised the issue. You will need to keep an eye on the spot welds adjacent (usually to the left as the problem seems to always work centre to left). If a 2nd one fails I would dig my heels in then and insist on a repair.

Having said that prevention is the better than cure and I would be asking for the repair now on he grounds that there is a recognised product enhancement and your car IS showing a clear sign of early failure.

Will be interesting to see what BMW'srepsonse is to their report.
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Post by Jonttt » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 18:08

paul46rider wrote:BMW are ajoke, they aren't even interessted at looking at our car cos its over 10 years old
Paul, You need to get BMW UK to instruct them to inspect.

If BMW don't play ball with your email then put your concerns in writing and say that if you do not get a written response within 7 days you reserve the write to refer to your letter and non response in any legal action you may take.

This is a not a health and safety issue ie is not going to cause your car to crash but it is always worth playing the health and safety card anyway.

State in you letter that you are concerned over the safety of the car due to this recognised design fault potentially causing catostrophic failure to the rear subframe.This will scare them into action. They went to great lengths with me to state that his was not a safety issue which means to me that they are concerned over someone making this statement.

I didn't have to go down this route so neither should you. Dealers will be inconsistant but BMW UK are the common factor in these cases and they should be consistant.

I can't believe your dealer stated over 10 years old as being a factor. There is an old saying that "bad design is for life" and it is so true in these cases. Should not matter how old the car is given that there is a fundemental design flaw which is clearly not age related.

I guess there is a danger that as more of us flag this problem on older cars BMW may try to play the age game. It will even get to the point where the cost of the repair is worth more than the value of some cars but that should not be a factor. However, as the cars get older BMW may view the risk of "public" exposure as less than it was ie how much sympathy from man on the street would you have with a car that is over 10 years old if something hit the press. 5 years ago the risk was obviously far to great for them especially in the USA. But they have set the precendent now and that should be consistant.

So keep posting updates as I feel its really important that anyone with this problem should benefit from our experiences.
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Post by paul46rider » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 18:18

this was what BMW UK told the dealers! i'm gonna chase it up over the phone with BMW UK on Monday, my dealers didn't even bother ringing me, i rang them and the guy said i wasn't gonna bother calling you cos there is nothing we (BMW) can do, BMW technical have told us the any car over 10 years old they will not controbute any good will to repair it.

I'm sooo pissed off, We have owned 8 BMW's included the m roadster and the e46 m3 we have now, not happy at all

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Post by Jonttt » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 18:34

Paul

Thats not good :head:

BMW UK may have set a rule that they will not offer this repair free of charge on cars over 10 years old.

I think there would be a very good legal precedent to challenge this but I'm no lawyer and someone would have to be willing to pay for legal advice.

I would speke to them further as you say and ask them for the name of the person you should write to as you are not satisfied with that response and want to formally raise a complaint and will require written confirmation that BMW are refusing to inspect and repair this design fault. Then write the letter as outlined above. They will have a formal compaints escelation procedure dependant on how serious the complaint but they will have to respond to a complaint no matter what catagory they allocate to it.

Looks like you are going to have a fight on your hands. :head:

For info my car was built July 1999 and first registered March 2000. So from manufacture mine is 9 1/2 years old, good job I didn't leave this until after summer.

Also if you do end up taking this further and need me to act as a witness / send something to a solicitor I would be more than happy to do so.
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Post by paul46rider » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 18:36

thanks mate, i'll update on Monday after i have spoken to them.

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Post by offyourmarks » Sat 28 Feb, 2009 05:19

excellent thread and good result there John - glad it worked out!

i hope the other guys have some good luck too - i cant see why age makes a difference, like you say its a design issue and should be addressed regardless of age

good luck guys

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Post by Boysie » Sun 01 Mar, 2009 10:58

Hi All

After my trip to the dealer i didnt know what step to take next.
I knew I was going to munich legends on saturday, so iI thought as a independent i would ask them to do a complete check of the diff bracket and any signs of a weld problems.

I had asked them had they seen and dealt with this problem, they said they had carried out the first dif bracket and floor replacement to the z3 show car, a left hand drive car and replaced a couple since then to other clients

He said my car was perfectly ok no signs of the problem no weld problems (Yet), wait for it, slight surface rust in the boot to the top of weld axactly what the dealer had said

I said what do you mean "YET" it will happen at stage he said, but dont worry BMW are recalling the cars i said i dont think so, you have to put up a fight, i didnt persue it from there

I feel a lot better, until the next problems arise

And I had the Roof Off

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Post by Jonttt » Sun 01 Mar, 2009 12:09

Thats great news Boysie

You have to remember there are a lot more cars out there without the problem than with. :wink:

At least knowing it could happen allows people to keep an eye out for early signs.

Sun out here too, time to try out my new strut brace 8-)
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Post by Boysie » Sun 01 Mar, 2009 14:28

Hi

Is it a front strut or rear
I already have a strong strut on the front but was
wondering about getting a rear one
i have had differing opinions mainly from dealers
and indies that the rear is of no use, it does
nothing to the car, but stops the flex and makes
it too twitchy as its too rigid.

Would like your opinion

I feel the front does help a bit

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Post by paul46rider » Sun 01 Mar, 2009 14:46

boysie you would happen to know who it was at munich legends who said they are being recalled, i could really do with any help i can get at the moment

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Post by Boysie » Sun 01 Mar, 2009 16:04

Hi paul

Talk to Alex at Munich Legends, he is now in charge
of the workshop and the day to day running as Barney
has now departed from Munich Legends.

They are very very helpful people, ask them to
do an inspection and if need be a report for you,
there might be a small charge for that but worth it.

They are well established and that might
carry some clout with BMW

Please mention my name to them Its Ray hall

All The best
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Post by Jonttt » Sun 01 Mar, 2009 17:49

Boysie wrote:Hi

Is it a front strut or rear......
Boysie, its a front I got off eBay. I would have loved the strong strut but could not justify the cost with current exchange rate :bawl: Having said that I'm chuffed to bits with it. Car does feel more rooted cornering with it on :D
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Post by paul46rider » Sun 01 Mar, 2009 17:55

Boysie wrote:Hi paul

Talk to Alex at Munich Legends, he is now in charge
of the workshop and the day to day running as Barney
has now departed from Munich Legends.

They are very very helpful people, ask them to
do an inspection and if need be a report for you,
there might be a small charge for that but worth it.

They are well established and that might
carry some clout with BMW

Please mention my name to them Its Ray hall

All The best
Thanks mate, i'll try and call him tomorrow, thanks to everyone for their help, if i get nowhere with all this, this week, it looks like im gonna be under the car with the spanners and a welder lol

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Post by Tilly » Sun 01 Mar, 2009 18:39

Boysie[i
]After my trip to the dealer i didnt know what step to take next.
I knew I was going to munich legends on saturday, so iI thought as a independent i would ask them to do a complete check of the diff bracket and any signs of a weld problems.

I had asked them had they seen and dealt with this problem, they said they had carried out the first dif bracket and floor replacement to the z3 show car, a left hand drive car and replaced a couple since then to other clients[/i]
Can confirm since mine was the prelaunch ZM. Feb 1997 with 114,000Km. ML removed diff, striped down rear end to gain access, replaced parts and repaired welds. Total cost around £1500. Did not even try BMW since with a twelve year old I thought that there was no chance of compensation. If this is a design fault, which looks highly probable, then the manufacturer should pay, irrespective of the car's age.

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Post by shantybeater » Thu 02 Apr, 2009 08:52

Paul can you post up your outcome? In the process of buying a pre dec99 car and need to know whether they allow it with over 10years old
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Post by Brian H » Thu 02 Apr, 2009 09:15

shantybeater

Check the floor pan of the boot before you finally buy! Jonttt has some before and after pictures earlier in this thread, it is easy to spot if the car you are buying has an issue.

It would seem that BMW are repairing the fault on a case by case basis, I don't think it's as simple as it is under 10 years old. I have been lucky, my feb 1998 1.9 Z3 is being fixed as we speak by BMW F.O.C.

These are the spot weld failures in my car

Image

It is my undersatnding that the diff bracket which is located directly below the broken spot welds on the underside of the car can also fail, this must also be checked!

If you find evidence of any weld failure (as shown in the pictures) in the boot floor pan or diff mount bracket failure either ask for it fixed before you buy or re-negotiate the price allowing for the full repair, there is no guarantee that BMW will pick up the tab.

Good Luck

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Post by stu » Thu 02 Apr, 2009 09:20

Boysie wrote:Hi

Is it a front strut or rear
I already have a strong strut on the front but was
wondering about getting a rear one
i have had differing opinions mainly from dealers
and indies that the rear is of no use, it does
nothing to the car, but stops the flex and makes
it too twitchy as its too rigid.

Would like your opinion

I feel the front does help a bit

ray
Several people on here with rear braces and it does improve things. Mike Fishwick is a real fan of them! Only downside is less ground clearance.
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Post by Jonttt » Thu 02 Apr, 2009 09:58

Ardchyle wrote:shantybeater

It is my undersatnding that the diff bracket which is located directly below the broken spot welds on the underside of the car can also fail, this must also be checked!

If you find evidence of any weld failure (as shown in the pictures) in the boot floor pan or diff mount bracket failure either ask for it fixed before you buy or re-negotiate the price allowing for the full repair, there is no guarantee that BMW will pick up the tab.

Good Luck
Just to expand on this, the spot weld failure is a symptom of the diff bracket failing under torque stress from the final drive. Basically the Bracket holding the final drive differential unit "twists" and cracks. (I'm no mechanic so simply the differential "converts" power running along vehicle from the engine to the rear wheels. This change of direction of power causes a lot of torque stress or twisting) The bracket supporting this unit is not strong enough to cope with these stresses and cracks. The crack is not always evident from visual inspection. This then causes more stresses to be transmitted along the cross member holding the diff bracket. The spot welds seen in the boot are connected to this cross member and fail with the additional stress. Therefore they will not crack until they experience the increased stresses caused by the diff bracket failing.

This does seem to currently be dealt with in an inconsistant manner from BMW with age being used as an exscuse to say no. But in other cases older vehicles have been repaired FOC :head:

My worry is that if you said to a dealer fix this or else I will walk away he will firstly not comprehend the problem and when he does given the potential cost involved he will let you walk away ie he is more likely to be abl to sell it to someone else who is not aware of the problem. Even if he sells for sightly less he is still better of!

Therefore, due to BMW's inconsistancy you really are "taking a chance" if the car has this problem and you buy it.

Obviously the big plus is that once you have had this problem addressed and it is documented it should be that much easier to sell what is a geat car. Most "punters" will never be aware of it and may well have a car with this problem for several years and sell it on no problem. It does not actually affect how the car drives at all unless you get some of the extreme cases documented a few years ago requiring full floor replacement but these must have been well thrashed to get in that state.

That is the dilema with posts like this. It does scare people from a great car when in the vast majority of cases if they did not know of the problem it would not affect their use or enjoyment of the car at all. Knowledge can be a dangerous thing but at the end of the day I would rather know than not.
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Post by shantybeater » Thu 02 Apr, 2009 17:54

Ardchyle wrote:shantybeater

Check the floor pan of the boot before you finally buy! Jonttt has some before and after pictures earlier in this thread, it is easy to spot if the car you are buying has an issue.

It would seem that BMW are repairing the fault on a case by case basis, I don't think it's as simple as it is under 10 years old. I have been lucky, my feb 1998 1.9 Z3 is being fixed as we speak by BMW F.O.C.

These are the spot weld failures in my car

Image

It is my undersatnding that the diff bracket which is located directly below the broken spot welds on the underside of the car can also fail, this must also be checked!

If you find evidence of any weld failure (as shown in the pictures) in the boot floor pan or diff mount bracket failure either ask for it fixed before you buy or re-negotiate the price allowing for the full repair, there is no guarantee that BMW will pick up the tab.

Good Luck
So am i right in saying that the three crackec/rusty looking ones are what a should be looking for?

@ jonntt - thanks for taking the time to reply, i'll give the boot a good looking over tomorrow taking the tool box out etc..
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Post by Brian H » Thu 02 Apr, 2009 19:08

Yep, They are the broken spot welds.

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Post by Zed Carer » Thu 02 Apr, 2009 19:28

jonttt wrote
Just to expand on this, the spot weld failure is a symptom of the diff bracket failing under torque stress from the final drive. Basically the Bracket holding the final drive differential unit "twists" and cracks.
Just to expand a bit more. The original diff bracket is made of thinner metal than the replacement bracket that was fitted from late 99. Therefore the original diff bracket can flex more under the torque loading and this can cause the diff bracket to crack. The welds fail due to the torsional load that is being transferred to the cross member that is basically a hollow box member. Therefore it is possible that if the original diff bracket is a "good" one (i.e. stronger than average) then the welds could still fail as more of the torsional load is being transmitted without the diff bracket cracking.

jonttt correctly (IMO) described the failure of the welds as being domino effect and I think that the whole potential sequence could be a domino effect: 1 Torsional stresses start weld failure, 2 Weld failure gets progressively worse, 3 The additional movement albeit small due to the weld failure allows the diff bracket to flex more and IMHO this is probably when the diff bracket cracks. 4 The cracked diff bracket allows more movement that stresses the welds between the bracket and the cross member that can then crack.

Be interested to see what views others have.
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Post by Boysie » Thu 02 Apr, 2009 19:33

Hi

I have had my car checked
and been given a clear bill of health no diff problem (Yet)
i had this done after reading a thread on here
i feel this problem will or could devalue the car whether
it has the problem or not
A bit like the Vanos problems aired on here (horror)

Soon Nobody will touch Z3 with barge pole

Without getting political
The media has caused enough problems with the economy
with Scare mongery

Ray
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Post by Jonttt » Thu 02 Apr, 2009 21:09

Boysie

I must admit I have mixed feelings about my own post.

Unless a severe case (ie with boot floor failure which must by default be the sign of a thrashed vehicle!) this problem does not affect the drive of the car at all, there is no knocking or from my experience difference to the feel of the car. Therefore ignorance would be bliss and the car could be enjoyed for what it is.

However, on the other hand it is such an easy (but not obvious) problem to diagnose via the broken spot welds in the boot.

The Vanos problem was slightly different in that it is very noticable via the engine noise but despite this ///M's still attract the premium you would expect over the non ///M's.

Yes it may put some people off but they are in finite supply now and there will always be someone willing to purchase (in ignorance or not).

Those people that take the time to research their purchases through forums such as this are obviously in a better position to identify the car that they are looking for. But for everyone like that there are numerous others who do not go to that trouble and will buy in ignorance.

At the end of the day I would rather know about a genuine issue such as this.

In your case, you may have worried unduly but I have had numerous messages from people thanking me for the info as they have been in a better position to resolve the problem or identifying that their car is OK very easily. I am sure that each of them would rather know than be ignorant.

Of course it would be nice to know that BMW as a matter of fact will address this issue if evident FOC. There are signs that this may be the case and that there may be alternative remedies which are less costly to BMW. Hopefully they will be confirmed in the near future.

I would like to think that in some way, through consistant presentation from members of this forum that finally this issue may be remedied without conflict by BMW. Time will tell.......
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Post by stu » Thu 02 Apr, 2009 21:12

And in contrast to Ray, a local farmer's son asked me what price he should be asking for his S50 MZ3 when I mentioned it'd be worth checking the boot floor and we found it had cracking, but we're now addressing it (via contacts in the BMW Car Club) to get it properly sorted via BMW, so I would fully expect him to get a better price forr the car as a direct result of being pro-active.
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Post by Tilly » Thu 02 Apr, 2009 21:42

I'm afraid it is not scaremongering. Just fact!

I have had to repair both the rear end and the Vanos in the last two months. Cost well over £3000.

Has it affected the value of the car. I don't really care. You have to expect cars cost money to run and a twelve year old, high performance ZM that was not cheap when new is not going to be an exception. One thing is certain it will cost a lot more in the future.
Has it reduced my enthusiasm? No way. Will I recoup the cost, yes in terms of pleasure? No in financial terms. If I wanted the latter I would have bought small diesel hatch and kept it till it fell apart. If I had gone that route I can’t image the fun I would have missed apart from the fun I anticipate in the future.

You pays your money and makes your choice. An added bonus is you get to talk about it on the forum.

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Post by Boysie » Thu 02 Apr, 2009 22:02

Hi


I have gained a vast amount of knowledge from this forum.
I was having moaning murtle moment.
It was not aimed at a particular indivual or group, not at all.

But i liked your replys to it

Thats what forums are for "good and bad days"

On a happier note

Ray
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Post by Tilly » Thu 02 Apr, 2009 22:32

Frank airing of opinions, provided they don't get personal, is what a good forum is about.

No offense is taken and none implied.

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Post by Jonttt » Thu 02 Apr, 2009 22:46

No probs Boysie

Like I always say, if everyone thought the same way the world would be a boring place :wink:
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Post by pangster » Fri 10 Apr, 2009 16:01

I'm not sure if this will be of interest to anyone.. might be of interest to those being left in limbo by BMW though?:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh ... ?t=1106379

In summary:
The lad on Bimmerforums.com has had spot weld and diff bracket failure (signs of it) is eventually going to go down the Randy Forbes repair route with the dual lug support for the rear diff and strengthened rear member - but as an interim measure all he's done is to jack up the diff to bring the spot welds up to their original location and then flood welded them.. as well as along the seam. It's not pretty but it seems to have lasted a few months now.. and some hard driving (as he does auto-x) etc so it looks like this could be feasible route to go down whilst you decide what route to go?..

HTH

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Post by p90dds » Fri 01 May, 2009 09:42

Hi,
I'm new here, and have been looking to buy a z3m roadster for some time.
I viewed a car last night, not too far from where I live, and first impressions were that it was in lovely condition, no noise from the engine, full bwwsh etc etc.
But, I was concerned to see that 3 of the spot welds in the boot floor had broken (thankyou zroadster.net for helping me find that because I would never have thought to check there!). I have phoned BMW UK customer services but they tell me that there is no guarantee that the repair would be done FOC, and that each case will be dealt with independently. They said that if the car had had some strenghtening work done in the past by BMW and it had still failed, then they would consider repairing FOC.
This is what they said had happened with yours johntt?
I guess what I am asking is, should I still be interested in the car if I can get a price to fix and have it deducted from the asking price, or should i walk away and continue my search elsewhere???
Other than this probelm the car is fantastic.
Any advice would be more than appreciated.
Paul.

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Post by pangster » Fri 01 May, 2009 10:45

p90dds wrote:Hi,
I'm new here, and have been looking to buy a z3m roadster for some time.
I viewed a car last night, not too far from where I live, and first impressions were that it was in lovely condition, no noise from the engine, full bwwsh etc etc.
But, I was concerned to see that 3 of the spot welds in the boot floor had broken (thankyou zroadster.net for helping me find that because I would never have thought to check there!). I have phoned BMW UK customer services but they tell me that there is no guarantee that the repair would be done FOC, and that each case will be dealt with independently. They said that if the car had had some strenghtening work done in the past by BMW and it had still failed, then they would consider repairing FOC.
This is what they said had happened with yours johntt?
I guess what I am asking is, should I still be interested in the car if I can get a price to fix and have it deducted from the asking price, or should i walk away and continue my search elsewhere???
Other than this probelm the car is fantastic.
Any advice would be more than appreciated.
Paul.
it's a tough one!... the only certainty is that it will need fixed.

Personally speaking though I would be more confident buying a Z3M that I knew had this work done than one that didn't and could potentially happen in future. If BMW aren't going to play ball and repair this for you FOC - an alternative and possible better fix is the Randy Forbes kit - which not only strengthens the boot floor/cross member - but also utilises a 2 ear/lug diff mount (one either side) as opposed to - which is probably how it should have come designed from the factory. :)

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