Lewis Hamilton - World Champion elect?

Zed_Steve · Post by **Zed_Steve** » Sun 30 Sep, 2007 13:09

I think after his latest win in Japan he fully deserves to win the World title.

Driving in the most extreme conditions, fending off his team mate, and keeping his head when being nudged off the track. Awesome drive!

pingu · Post by **pingu** » Sun 30 Sep, 2007 13:23

Raikannon (how do you spell that name?) was more awesome IMO. Getting from 21st to 3rd in those conditions was Schumacheresk. Lewis did everything right and deserved to win. Well done, the championship beckons.

The two wet races this year prove that only the wet races are real races. The last four or five corners that had Massa and Kubica side by side were the best racing I've seen in years. They all deserved their massive pay cheques today. Great racing.

PhoenixCoupe · Post by **PhoenixCoupe** » Sun 30 Sep, 2007 13:58

Sadly though, this championship will always be tainted by the McLaren / Ferrari spying incident.

///M_aniac · Post by **///M_aniac** » Sun 30 Sep, 2007 14:08

PhoenixCoupe wrote:Sadly though, this championship will always be tainted by the McLaren / Ferrari spying incident.

I agree, and for me (and all other Schumacher fans) the lack of Schumi.

komis · Post by **komis** » Sun 30 Sep, 2007 14:17

Having also watched the Red Bull Air Races this weekend I think they should make smoke machines on the back of F1 cars compulsory for when it's not raining

Just kidding, but what a smashing race, I couldn't agree more with Pingu's comments here.

sfh3l · Post by **sfh3l** » Sun 30 Sep, 2007 14:55

Hamilton really is the complete package, and straight out of the box too. I read Murray Walker's guest column in Motorsport this month, and he reckoned that brilliant though Lewis was, it would be the experience of Alonso that told in the final analysis. I reluctantly agreed - until today!

The guy with 5 seasons' F1 experience was indeed very quick, and showed good restraint and car control as well as out and out speed. The trouble for him was that the lad whose been in F1 for less than a year did all of that just as well, but didn't make one mistake - by all accounts the story of Saturday as well.

I am beginning to think that he is truly a phenomenon - and ask yourself the question which one of them you'd rather have working for you? No contest IMHO.

As for the Mclaren "Spy Scandal" I have never seen such a bunch of tosh in my entire life. I personally think that Ron Dennis has been dragged through all of this as if he were a criminal. The way I read it Stepney and Coughlan probably have criminal charges to answer, but extending that to Mclaren generally is rubbish. Sure, the (Spanish) drivers talked about weight distribution and race strategy for the red cars, but so does Martin Brundle for goodness sake! I also recall talk of Nitrogen being used as the tyre gas by Murray Walker when he was commentating. I believe that this makes these bits of info well and truly "in the public domain".

Ferrari were initially just bitching because Stepney alerted Mclaren to the existence of (yet another) illegal detail of their car at the AUS GP, which was duly protested and found to be in breach of the regs. Strangely though, no points deduction or fine for Ferrari there though - and that was a Raikkinen win too. In this instance I feel that it is Ferrari who have come out looking worst, in the sense that they play the holier than though act when they have played every cheat card in the book, and got away with most of them. Take the intermediate tyres today - strange that they should be the only team not to have received the instructions from the FIA? Pure coincidence too that it allowed them to alter their fuel strategy at what might have been a crucial time. Even stranger that despite being in direct contravention of a simple and clear instruction, they received no criticism from the governing body.

If it weren't for the spectacular battle this season is turning into, I think I'd probably switch off in disgust like I did in 1994 when Senna died and cheating was openly allowed to deliver championships to his successor.

Rant over - YES, LH is utterly spellbinding. Oh, and don't forget that this is his rookie season - he's only going to get better!

PhoenixCoupe · Post by **PhoenixCoupe** » Sun 30 Sep, 2007 16:41

I don't really think Hamilton can really be described as a rookie - yes, this is his first season competing in F1, but, he's been (for want of a better word) groomed for such a long time that it was almost certainly inevitable that he would be among the top drivers.
Not to take anything away from him, but, McLaren admitted to have had that information and it appears that they used it to get an advantage. Having their aero settings, tyre mixture, weight balance and fuel strategy gives you a massive advantage over your main rivals. Ron Dennis must have known it was going on to some extent - and could have stopped it before it got to the point it did. However, he didn't and clearly lied about it when it was first revealed to the public. Although many people seem to have the idea that Ferrari get away with things more than the other teams, it is interesting to note that it was McLaren who always led the complaints about possible rule infringing details of the Ferrari car. Bending a rule and breaking it are 2 different things, and Ferrari have had as many - if not more - disqualifications on such items.

It would be interesting to see if people from the UK were so supportive of Hamilton were he from, from example, Albania.

QED · Post by **QED** » Mon 01 Oct, 2007 06:36

I am an seasoned F1 fan both armchair and attendee however I am finding the recent coverage on ITV-F1 unbearable. It's not ITV-F1 and more it's LTV-F1, Lewis TV!
It's an embarrassment considering that the ITV-F1 feed is sold worldwide to most English speaking countries - all you see is Lewis this and Lewis that.
No denying his talent however however there are 21 other drivers out there that personally I'd like to hear from and see on TV as well.

sfh3l · Post by **sfh3l** » Mon 01 Oct, 2007 08:27

There's no denying that Steve Rider clearly wants to be the mother of Lewis Hamilton's children. However, when there is a hope of a real contender we do seem to get a little excited as a nation. Look at the "Britain's Nigel Mansell" phenomenon of the 80's. I was never a Mansell fan, but we were quite right to get caught up in the national pride of perhaps having another British World Champ. Hell, TV news even remembered Jenson Button (and F1 generally) when he won the Hungarian GP last year!

I too get annoyed by the implication that Hamilton is the only UK driver in the race, or even the only driver full stop. However, better that portrayal of the sport than none at all. I also feel that Hamilton represents such a fantastic role model for young lads everywhere. My son is 11 and competes in a local Karting series, and all the lads there have a genuine respect and awe for what Hamilton represents. He is a genuine candidate for "Employee of the Month" and you get the impression that this would be the case in whatever he did - could you say the same for example about Eddie Irvine, Kimi, and the like? I think probably not.

As for nationality, all I can say is that I felt just the same about Senna when I first saw him, and he was from Brazil.

Hamilton has indeed been groomed for what he's doing right now, and tested the car, and been part of the team furniture for many years. The fact remains though that no amount of Kart racing, GP2 or simulators can prepare a young man for being thrown into the most fierce pressure that exists in sport. This is genuinely his first season actually competing in F1, and what he has achieved already is amazing. It is the double champ who has blinked first on more than one occasion.

Any polarised debate like this just shows one of the great things about human nature. Two people can each see the exact same array of facts laid out before them, and yet they each come away with a completely different understanding to the other.

Vive la difference!
(oh, and I managed to admire Prost as well as being a Senna fan........)

PhoenixCoupe · Post by **PhoenixCoupe** » Mon 01 Oct, 2007 09:55

sfh3l wrote:He is a genuine candidate for "Employee of the Month" and you get the impression that this would be the case in whatever he did - could you say the same for example about Eddie Irvine, Kimi, and the like? I think probably not.

Having grown up near Mr Irvine, and knowing a few people in common, I doubt he's ever going to be on anyone's list for top employee. I've heard though (which may or may not be true) that off-camera Hamilton can be arrogant and ignorant as well.

estocks · Post by **estocks** » Mon 01 Oct, 2007 11:53

PhoenixCoupe wrote:
sfh3l wrote:He is a genuine candidate for "Employee of the Month" and you get the impression that this would be the case in whatever he did - could you say the same for example about Eddie Irvine, Kimi, and the like? I think probably not.
Having grown up near Mr Irvine, and knowing a few people in common, I doubt he's ever going to be on anyone's list for top employee. I've heard though (which may or may not be true) that off-camera Hamilton can be arrogant and ignorant as well.

When you are surrounded by fawning reporters asking 'what it's like to be the bestest driver of ever?' and 'to what do you attribute your heroic genius on the road?' for 6 months, you start to believe the bullshit.

PhoenixCoupe · Post by **PhoenixCoupe** » Mon 01 Oct, 2007 12:16

Mr I always had that attitude.
Although, I do know someone who beat him up at school

sfh3l · Post by **sfh3l** » Mon 01 Oct, 2007 13:25

Called Ayrton?
Just kidding. That little spat in Spa was good to watch though.

BimBeema · Post by **BimBeema** » Mon 01 Oct, 2007 13:35

Almost - just needs to keep his head for the next 2 races and makes sure he finishes with points as minimum. Good race yesterday.

PhoenixCoupe · Post by **PhoenixCoupe** » Mon 01 Oct, 2007 13:37

sfh3l wrote:Called Ayrton?
Just kidding. That little spat in Spa was good to watch though.

No, way before that. Pity it didn't teach him anything...

sfh3l · Post by **sfh3l** » Mon 01 Oct, 2007 13:47

I never had a great admiration of our Eddie, but look at him now. Very well advised while he was earning the money and as a result set up for life. What a shame George Best didn't listen to the same people!

PhoenixCoupe · Post by **PhoenixCoupe** » Mon 01 Oct, 2007 13:58

His family were never that short of funds to begin with, unlike George Best.
There'll never be a "Eddie Irvine" airport though.

Geoff H · Post by **Geoff H** » Mon 01 Oct, 2007 14:47

QED wrote:I am an seasoned F1 fan both armchair and attendee however I am finding the recent coverage on ITV-F1 unbearable. It's not ITV-F1 and more it's LTV-F1, Lewis TV!
It's an embarrassment considering that the ITV-F1 feed is sold worldwide to most English speaking countries - all you see is Lewis this and Lewis that.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought this, hope the BBC get it back soon

The Colonel · Post by **The Colonel** » Mon 01 Oct, 2007 15:24

Geoff H wrote:
QED wrote:I am an seasoned F1 fan both armchair and attendee however I am finding the recent coverage on ITV-F1 unbearable. It's not ITV-F1 and more it's LTV-F1, Lewis TV!
It's an embarrassment considering that the ITV-F1 feed is sold worldwide to most English speaking countries - all you see is Lewis this and Lewis that.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought this, hope the BBC get it back soon

Of course the footage of the actual race isn't by ITV. As for the rest of the bunk, I tend to avoid it, record the race, watch it just after it finishes (especially the far east races) and skip the ads too. Their pre/post coverage certainly went downhill after Grim Rosenthal stopped doing it, and Mark Blundell doesn't really bring much more to it than Martin Brundell.

Having said all that, the coverage of the actual races has gone on the slide a bit too, such that I'm convinced that had I actually been at some of the races I'd have had a better idea of what was going on.

I'd happily kill James Allen though, but I fear he'd still be commentating even if the BBC got it. Bring back James Hunt, real class he was. I know he's sadly gone before, but he'd still be better than Allen. Ted Kravitz should do it even, if only for having such a cool name.

PhoenixCoupe · Post by **PhoenixCoupe** » Mon 01 Oct, 2007 15:29

There's definitely a British-centric theme to the commentary.
I love comments like "Jenson Button has done really well to go from 18th to 12th" when them seem to forget other foreign drivers have gone from 22nd to 5th in the same race.

The Colonel · Post by **The Colonel** » Mon 01 Oct, 2007 15:37

PhoenixCoupe wrote:There's definitely a British-centric theme to the commentary.
I love comments like "Jenson Button has done really well to go from 18th to 12th" when them seem to forget other foreign drivers have gone from 22nd to 5th in the same race.

Oh, that goes without saying, they are, after all British commentators, and it is no less the case on Italian TV commentary where Ferrari do no wrong and all Italian drivers are racing gods.

I've watched races in Italy where Button and Coulthard might have well stayed at home (but that is usually the case anyway.

)

.

sfh3l · Post by **sfh3l** » Mon 01 Oct, 2007 16:07

Interesting how the media in various countries deal with this fame thing.
Before LH hit the scene the BBC News only reported the outcome of F1 if Coulthard or Button had a "gritty" performance of note, or if there was some awful pile-up that looked newsworthy. I guess that was in part sour grapes toward F1 for following the money to ITV, but it is part of a wider view that if we aren't winning it, it isn't happening.

Now, I'm not a football fan, and at the risk of offending, I do find this coverage completely at odds with the way the Premiership is shown. It seems to be largely populated by foreign players in whom we shouldn't ordinarily have a great deal of interest, but we still get their exploits beamed at us ad nauseam. F1 on the other hand has a very international driver line up, but most of the sport, apart from the notable red team and BMW choose to run their operations here in the Motorsport capital of the world. Oh, I forgot Toyota - second thoughts are they still in it?

I watched one of the GP in Spain this year, and they honestly believe that Fernando is the only driver on the planet. I was also in Italy when Mansell's wheel nut came off in the pits - they went absolutely wild, as he wasn't at the time driving a Ferrari.

Best place to be is the US - they dont understand a thing about F1 and don't pretend to. Last time I saw a GP there it was commentated on by our very own John Watson, and all the better for it.

I say bring back Murray. I know many people were infuriated by him, but he was not a professional journo who was just covering F1 because the money was better than doing Golf, he loved the sport and was hugely knowledgeable. James and Murray were the best combo ever. Next to that Martin B and Murray worked very well for me.

BTW how would anyone fancy being Sebastian Vettel right now? You've gotta feel for poor Mark Webber. very underrated driver IMHO, and stuffed up the back from a very strong second place must have been heartbraking. I felt his Sundy morning comment oh so appropriate. They'll probably never shove a microphone in his face ever again!

The Colonel · Post by **The Colonel** » Mon 01 Oct, 2007 16:19

sfh3l wrote:Now, I'm not a football fan, and at the risk of offending, I do find this coverage completely at odds with the way the Premiership is shown. It seems to be largely populated by foreign players in whom we shouldn't ordinarily have a great deal of interest, but we still get their exploits beamed at us ad nauseam.

Might this not be that F1 drivers are just better behaved than the few Premiership players who regularly get in the papers for spit-roasting 17 year olds in west London hotels and wrapping their cars around lamposts having just left China White?

James hunt had a fair few extra-curricular column inches written about him in his day...and after...maybe current F1 drivers just like to go home, listen to Sade and drink some cocoa.

The other thing is, football is almost a constant, whereas F1 only happens (in the wider press) from March to October, so is less reported on generally.

Would agree though that the F1 industry is quite significant in the UK (even Ferrari, Toyota and BMW have a lot of UK input) and is not recognised nearly enough. But saying "great things are happening" sadly does not sell newspapers.

321bhp · Post by **321bhp** » Mon 01 Oct, 2007 16:27

i never really followed f1 much untill lewis came around,id wtach the odd race,but now im glued to the tv,funny though when Schumacher was always winning it got kinda boring for me,will we feel the same about lewis in a few years

take football if man united won the league every year,it would get pretty boring.so lewis coming in 2nd and 3rd on the odd occation adds to the excitement,

im not up on f1 or football,the above is just my view,now if ya talikg about dwarf thowing im your man

PhoenixCoupe · Post by **PhoenixCoupe** » Mon 01 Oct, 2007 16:44

sfh3l wrote:F1 on the other hand has a very international driver line up, but most of the sport, apart from the notable red team and BMW choose to run their operations here in the Motorsport capital of the world. Oh, I forgot Toyota - second thoughts are they still in it?

I was also in Italy when Mansell's wheel nut came off in the pits - they went absolutely wild, as he wasn't at the time driving a Ferrari.

Most of the cars for IRL and so on are built in the UK as well. That's mainly due to historic reasons (and that English is the primary international language I guess).
Italian fans do support Ferrari very closely, but, that is different than jumping on the most successful Brit bandwagon IMO (how quickly has Jenson Button started to fade into the background now he is no longer the greatest hope of winning the championship?). They always support Ferrari, regardless of the driver's nationality.
Italians are, on the whole car crazy. They pretty much shut down the whole of Turin for a week during the launch of the Fiat 500, and a trip round the supercar factories will amaze you as you see kids, adults, senior citizens, priests and everyone running out to see the latest models drive by. When they stop, the cars are surrounded by people looking to see, touch, and hear the cars. The test drivers are asked for their autographs, and the amount of respect shown to them is stunning. It's a totally different culture.

The Colonel · Post by **The Colonel** » Mon 01 Oct, 2007 16:47

PhoenixCoupe wrote: (how quickly has Jenson Button started to fade into the background now he is no longer the greatest hope of winning the championship?).

Was he ever? Blimey, would have been quicker and easier to get Michael Schumacher naturalised as a British Citizen...Ralf even.

PhoenixCoupe · Post by **PhoenixCoupe** » Mon 01 Oct, 2007 16:49

Best comment ever about Ralf was from Murray Walker:-
"Hard to be the best driver in the world when you aren't even the best driver in your family"

sfh3l · Post by **sfh3l** » Mon 01 Oct, 2007 18:09

"Hard to be the best driver in the world when you aren't even the best driver in your family"

I rest my case - Murray was the most perceptive man in the sport

Zed_Steve · Post by **Zed_Steve** » Tue 09 Oct, 2007 11:16

Well its still all to play for after he made his FIRST real mistake of the season.

Why on earth the team didnt bring him in sooner for new tyres is beyond me

I still fancy his chances, he looks sooo confident and determined. The omens are not good though.

Statistically, the driver lying 2nd has come out on top when there has been a 3 way battle for the title. Mansell 86 revisited? I hope not!

///M_aniac · Post by **///M_aniac** » Tue 09 Oct, 2007 11:35

Steve123 wrote:
I still fancy his chances, he looks sooo confident and determined.

I agree - and that's coming from a sworn Ferrari supporter.

pingu · Post by **pingu** » Tue 09 Oct, 2007 11:38

There's a thread on PH that lists the different permutations. The best one is if Alonso wins and Hamilton comes 2nd.

They will be = on points
They will be = on 1st place countback
They will be = on 2nd place countback
They will be = on 3rd place countback
They will be = on 4th place countback
They won't be = on 5th place countback

I'll leave you to work out who's got to explain to their grandchildren why they didn't win the 2007 World Championship

.

I know the answer ne ne ne

.

Zed_Steve · Post by **Zed_Steve** » Tue 09 Oct, 2007 11:47

I will go along with FWDRacers theory

tetchmeister · Post by **tetchmeister** » Tue 09 Oct, 2007 14:05

pingu wrote:There's a thread on PH that lists the different permutations. The best one is if Alonso wins and Hamilton comes 2nd.

They will be = on points
They will be = on 1st place countback
They will be = on 2nd place countback
They will be = on 3rd place countback
They will be = on 4th place countback
They won't be = on 5th place countback

I'll leave you to work out who's got to explain to their grandchildren why they didn't win the 2007 World Championship .

I know the answer ne ne ne .

If Alonso wins he will be on 113, and if Hamilton comes 2nd he will be on 115, wheres the confusion?

PhoenixCoupe · Post by **PhoenixCoupe** » Tue 09 Oct, 2007 15:05

Think that should be if Alonso wins, and Hamilton is third to give them the same points...

tetchmeister · Post by **tetchmeister** » Tue 09 Oct, 2007 15:13

Yep, same points, but Alonso would have won 1 more race. Five wins for Alonso and four for Hamilton.

pingu · Post by **pingu** » Tue 09 Oct, 2007 17:47

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/to ... 0&t=447749

Sorry Guys, it was a Hamilton 5th / Alonso 2nd scenario. It was 0150 this morning when I read it, that's my excuse anyway

.

As you can see from the thread, it can get quite complicated.

For God's sake Lewis, just win the race, then they'll be no arguments

.