Bus Lane entrapment?

pingu · Post by **pingu** » Thu 17 Apr, 2008 20:54

I was coming north at 00.56 and was photographed going though this bus lane.

I've asked for evidence of the crime and also of the warning notices (and proof they were on display at the time of the offence).

Looking at the junction, the first clue that the road is abnormal is the arrow immediately before the bus lane. I feel this is entrapment.

Any thoughts?

Disco Steve · Post by **Disco Steve** » Thu 17 Apr, 2008 20:57

At 00.56hrs?? FFS, I thought that they were only monitored during the day or rush hours!

Zed Carer · Post by **Zed Carer** » Thu 17 Apr, 2008 21:45

Commiserations pingu and not sure that I can be of much help as I work mainly on motorways and trunk roads.

From the picture the "bus lane" looks more like a protected "bus stop". The northbound entry looks very tight especially when compared with the southbound entry. All "improvements" should have a series of Safety Audits, one during design, one when the design has been completed with the final one after the work has been completed and opened to traffic. Northbound traffic is being forced to turn towards oncoming traffic - not a natural maneuver - especially when there is only hatching between the two sets of traffic. If there was a southbound HGV waiting to turn right then a northbound driver would have a very restricted view of the bus lane entry, and the need to move over.

Looks like there is street lighting so any advance warning should have been separately illuminated - on some roads this is mandatory.

You could request a copy of the Safety Audit report from the Highway Authority - as far as Government Agencies are concerned all "reports" are now deemed to be public documents.

Good luck and hopefully you can muddy the waters enough to make them see sense.

pingu · Post by **pingu** » Thu 17 Apr, 2008 22:39

Zed Carer wrote:Good luck and hopefully you can muddy the waters enough to make them see sense.

That's the plan!! So far, I've sent them three e-mails...

(1)Dear Sir,

Please provide the following...

1) evidence of the alleged offence
2) evidence that the enforcement notice was visible at the time of
the
alleged offence

The evidence can be sent to the address you have on record.

I shall assume that the payment periods are extended by the length of
time it takes to provide such evidence.

Yours faithfully,

(2)Sir,

I have had the chance to see the bus lane on Kidbrooke Park Road (see
attached image). Due to the extremely short notice of a bus lane when
travelling north (first indication appears to be the arrow on the
road), I would like you to provide evidence of the advanced noticing
for the bus lane.

Yours faithfully,

(3)Dear Sir,

Since writing my last e-mail, I have been informed that all road improvements should have a series of Safety Audits, one during design, one when the design has been completed with the final one after the work has been completed and opened to traffic.

Please provide me with the Safety Audits for the northbound Bus Lane.

Furthermore, as there would be significant street lighting in the area, please provide evidence that the warning signs for the bus lane were seperately illuminated, or show the paragraph in the Safety Audit that deems this to be unnecessary.

Yours faithfully,

They'll have to earn their £60 for this one!!!

flamez · Post by **flamez** » Fri 18 Apr, 2008 06:57

Their response will be along the lines [well it usually is in England and Wales] , and this is usually printed in red at the bottom of your request for photographic evidence

we note your challenge to the fixed oenalty, and will not enter into further details. If you wish to continue your challenge the offence will be heard in a magistrates court,

Then of course the fine and other penalties could be higher. you takes your choice.

komis · Post by **komis** » Fri 18 Apr, 2008 09:05

we note your challenge to the fixed oenalty, and will not enter into further details. If you wish to continue your challenge the offence will be heard in a magistrates court

This is PURE BULLYING!!!!!!!!!! ARE THEY ALLOWED TO DO THAT?!??!?!? Surely someone must legally challenge this attrocity!

namatjira · Post by **namatjira** » Fri 18 Apr, 2008 10:45

If you get the response that it will proceed to court, notify them of your intention to apply for full discover and an independent audit that all regulations have been complied with.

Then it is likely that you will get a letter advising that in this case it has been deemed not in the public interest to proceed.

It is definitely worth challenging.

namatjira · Post by **namatjira** » Fri 18 Apr, 2008 10:46

Sorry, in my previous post please replace the word discover with discovery. By the way, they are not permitted to deny discovery.

muppet · Post by **muppet** » Fri 18 Apr, 2008 18:44

See a local lawyer and find out how the land lies in your area, in these circumstances a full court case "may not be in the public interest"

pingu · Post by **pingu** » Fri 18 Apr, 2008 19:08

I live in Nottingham and the "offence" happened in London.

Financially, the best thing to do would be to pay the £60, but it's not like me to do that.

Principles cost, and I'm prepared to pay.

This could easily end up costing me hundreds, but, AFAIK, that's not the point.

I believe that laws are written for a reason, and if the reason is lost, the law is lost.

The reason for bus lanes is to improve the flow of buses and taxis through the congested traffic. By having this bus lane enforced when the traffic is light (as it is at 0100), it will only lead to traffic swerving and causing chaos at a road junction. This cannot be good for traffic flow.

I look forward to my day in court.

Luckily, I don't have a job at the moment, so I can spend all day, for the next six months preparing the case.

.

estocks · Post by **estocks** » Fri 18 Apr, 2008 19:43

Sorry to say this, but it looks like that bus lane is clearly visible as you appraoch it. As long as that Bus lane is active during the night and they have a photo of you driving in it, you have to pay up.

Gazza · Post by **Gazza** » Sun 20 Apr, 2008 12:47

pingu wrote:
Zed Carer wrote:Furthermore, as there would be significant street lighting in the area, please provide evidence that the warning signs for the bus lane were seperately illuminated, or show the paragraph in the Safety Audit that deems this to be unnecessary.

Yours faithfully,

None of the Bus Lane Signs in my area are illuminated

Zed Carer · Post by **Zed Carer** » Sun 20 Apr, 2008 13:56

garythefish wrote

Zed Carer wrote:
Furthermore, as there would be significant street lighting in the area, please provide evidence that the warning signs for the bus lane were seperately illuminated, or show the paragraph in the Safety Audit that deems this to be unnecessary.

Yours faithfully,

None of the Bus Lane Signs in my area are illuminated

Unfortunately, or hopefully fortunately for Pingu this can be quite a complex issue as it depends on a number of factors (type of sign, speed limit, etc, etc) and get quite complex. Hence there will be some variations on different roads but it is (or a least was some years ago when I last an urban scheme) just as easy to get it wrong as it is to get it right. Its also why in a lot of urban areas signs are often fixed to lamp columns, or are near to a column so they can share the power supply to the lamp columns.