Z3 door speakers

What's happening in the wider BMW scene? Gossip and news about forthcoming models. Plus off-topic chat.
Post Reply
Jimmy Gauge
Joined: Tue 17 Aug, 2004 16:43
Posts: 2

  Z3 roadster 1.9i

Z3 door speakers

Post by Jimmy Gauge »

Wotcher,

Just joined up, hope am doing this right.....

I have a great stereo in my 2001 Z3, but lacks bass. I want to upgrade the door speakers so it sounds less tinny, but no-one seems to have a clue. Any suggestions for - 1.) What I should buy, 2.) What size I need, 3.) Where I can get them? Trying to keep it under £100 if possible, just got engaged and have a wedding to pay for.

Did anyone see my letter about Z3's in today's Times newspaper? In the debate suggestion if you're interested.

Cheers,

Gauge
User avatar
Bestgear
Joined: Mon 12 Jul, 2004 20:04
Posts: 208

  Z4 roadster 2.5i

Post by Bestgear »

Hi - welcome...

The Z3 has as standard (assuming you dont have the HK sound setup) 5.25" units in the footwells plus a single tweeter in each door. This is supplimented by 4" rear speakers too in your model year.

The NSF speaker has an amplifier mounted on the magnet that also needs sorted - best if you relocate it above the speaker and run a short length of speaker cable to the new nearside speaker.

Size etc? a 130cm speaker fits the factory hole (which is bigger than the std one fitted in yours) and can give a big improvement with the right unit.

My preference is from the MB Quart range of component units and have installed them in mine, with the new tweeters in the doors. The door trims are a bit tight to remove and install but hold no surprises.

Bass - I am looking at a sub in the boot plus porting it to the interior. There is no easy way forward apart from the puny HK twin 4" sub option in place of your rear storage boxes.

Hope this helps...

David
Jimmy Gauge
Joined: Tue 17 Aug, 2004 16:43
Posts: 2

  Z3 roadster 1.9i

Post by Jimmy Gauge »

Hi David,

Thanks for getting back to me - much appreciated. I'll let you know how I get on.

Cheers,

James
James

"Wide like a battleship..."
User avatar
muffles
Joined: Tue 15 Jun, 2004 14:12
Posts: 298

  Z3 roadster 2.8
Location: London

Post by muffles »

DJBlack wrote:Hi - welcome...

The Z3 has as standard (assuming you dont have the HK sound setup) 5.25" units in the footwells plus a single tweeter in each door. This is supplimented by 4" rear speakers too in your model year.

The NSF speaker has an amplifier mounted on the magnet that also needs sorted - best if you relocate it above the speaker and run a short length of speaker cable to the new nearside speaker.

Size etc? a 130cm speaker fits the factory hole (which is bigger than the std one fitted in yours) and can give a big improvement with the right unit.

My preference is from the MB Quart range of component units and have installed them in mine, with the new tweeters in the doors. The door trims are a bit tight to remove and install but hold no surprises.

Bass - I am looking at a sub in the boot plus porting it to the interior. There is no easy way forward apart from the puny HK twin 4" sub option in place of your rear storage boxes.

Hope this helps...

David
i'm confused - i have a 98 - standard is 4 speakers, HK is 8, right? as I have speakers in the footwell, plus in the doors, plus some behind my seats! that's 6 - unless the extra pair is also in the doors, i heard there can be two sets of speakers in there. I'm trying to work out if i have a HK system or not - i certainly don't have a sub, though.

Any answers?! :head:
Image
RIP '98 Arctic Silver 2.8!

Supersprint exhaust * UUC SSK * Clear rears/fronts/sides * Aluminium bee sting aerial * KW coilovers
User avatar
Bestgear
Joined: Mon 12 Jul, 2004 20:04
Posts: 208

  Z4 roadster 2.5i

Post by Bestgear »

As I know it...

HK -

2 bass in footwells, 2 mids in doors and 2 tweeters in doors, 2 4" subs in box between rear seats. I cannot remember if the HK setup has rear 3 or 4" behind seats - it may have.

In std setup..

2 bass in footwells, 2 tweeters in doors plus 2 3" behind seats in early Z3s which were replaced by 4" in later models.

I am not sure if the nsf bass speaker has allways had an amp fitted or if that was in later models only.


Anyone care to add/correct that?

D
User avatar
muffles
Joined: Tue 15 Jun, 2004 14:12
Posts: 298

  Z3 roadster 2.8
Location: London

Post by muffles »

ah ok then my set up is standard. i can't remember who said that the standard setup is 4 speakers :dunce:
Image
RIP '98 Arctic Silver 2.8!

Supersprint exhaust * UUC SSK * Clear rears/fronts/sides * Aluminium bee sting aerial * KW coilovers
User avatar
M11 POW
Joined: Thu 20 Nov, 2003 19:00
Posts: 334

  M roadster S50
Location: Colchester

Post by M11 POW »

I replaced my non HK footwell speakers recently with better units. There was no amp attached to either speaker in mine, for what it's worth.
[321 bhp. Das ist gut ja?
User avatar
Bestgear
Joined: Mon 12 Jul, 2004 20:04
Posts: 208

  Z4 roadster 2.5i

Post by Bestgear »

M11 POW... thats interesting!!

Are you the first owner of the car and did you have a look around the nearside footwell incase the amp had already been "moved"?

Can I ask if the speakers you removed were marked BMW or Nokia?

I wonder what the "rule" is then?

What head unit did/does your car have?

David
User avatar
hwassall
Z Register member
Joined: Thu 13 Nov, 2003 10:22
Posts: 73

  Not specified
Location: Bishops Stortford (New Hounslow)

No amp

Post by hwassall »

No amplifier in mine either when I replaced the footwell speakers. Just two wires that connected directly to the new speaker. The speakers were some particularly poor make that I have never heard of.
Howard
2003 TVR T350c
User avatar
Bestgear
Joined: Mon 12 Jul, 2004 20:04
Posts: 208

  Z4 roadster 2.5i

Post by Bestgear »

So...the common thing with you guys is M....

What head units do you both have (or had...)?

Perhaps its something they left out of the M - it all adds weight I guess!

David
User avatar
hwassall
Z Register member
Joined: Thu 13 Nov, 2003 10:22
Posts: 73

  Not specified
Location: Bishops Stortford (New Hounslow)

Post by hwassall »

Just the bog standard BMW Business head unit for me. This wil change at some point in the future...
Howard
2003 TVR T350c
IOMRoadster
Joined: Sun 18 Jan, 2004 20:49
Posts: 149

  M roadster S50

The amp in the footwell...

Post by IOMRoadster »

On the standard setup the amp was only added from MY '99 I believe. My ///M has the amp on the passenger side but my '97 didn't.

There is no difference in the UK between the M and Z3 setup. :rtm:
User avatar
Bestgear
Joined: Mon 12 Jul, 2004 20:04
Posts: 208

  Z4 roadster 2.5i

Post by Bestgear »

Thanks - so I guess we can pin the passenger side amp on the list of things that changed during the MY99 changes... as you say to both M and Z...

D
g3ajg
Joined: Mon 24 May, 2004 08:39
Posts: 15

  BMW other
Location: Bracknell

Post by g3ajg »

I think the amp also worked as a crossover, so if you start installing component based speakers then you would need to think about using the existing amp /x-over unit or runnning new cables and fitting the x-overs.

Tim posted some pictures of the unit a while back. I remember my first z'97 had no rear speakers and no amp unit. My second a 99 had the unit attached to the NSF and I actually just replaced the woofers for a time. I remember something about the unit controlling the rear speakers so it all gets a bit confusing, I eventually ran new speaker cable from the HU to the new crossovers and did'nt bother with the rears since they didn't really add to the sound anyway.

I would also check what type of speaker you put in the footwells, since some come with tweeters on (are they the two way ones) known as coaxial and should not be really used since you could get a lot of tonal confusion (although the crossover unit should filter out the high signal?). Ideally you should put in some component units and then decide later if you want to change the tweeters. For a few months a mounted the new tweaters just behind the front side vents and they blended in very well and looked almost stock. New cables were used to the new crossovers and then the woofers followed by runs up the door seal to the tweeters, very easy install.

Just out of interested I used a combination of BMW Cassette, BMW CD HU and a couple of Sony units during my Z ownership years.

I miss being able to change things so easily.....

Adam
g3ajg
Joined: Mon 24 May, 2004 08:39
Posts: 15

  BMW other
Location: Bracknell

Post by g3ajg »

My '99 was pre-facelift but still had the amp unit on the NSF.
User avatar
Bestgear
Joined: Mon 12 Jul, 2004 20:04
Posts: 208

  Z4 roadster 2.5i

Post by Bestgear »

Pre-99 had the amp? Well, thats that idea out the window....!!

The amp does have a "crossover" built in - its an active design done up front.

The NSF amp is driven from speaker level outs from the head unit (hence if you swap your head unit you MUST check to see if you have a NSFamp...).

The front door tweeters are driven directly from the head unit and have small crossovers mounted within the front door build.

The NSF amp powers both front "bass" units... hence only one amp in the NSF position.

The rear speakers are driven directly by the head unit too...

The ETM wiring diagram is around somewhere... have a search and it will appear...

So, we still dont know when they started fitting the NSF amp and under what combination of speakers/years/head units....

D
User avatar
TonyCal
Joined: Tue 21 Oct, 2003 07:18
Posts: 1570

  blank.gif
Location: Lancing
Contact:

Post by TonyCal »

For what its worth, my 1.9 did not have an Amp in the nearside footwell speaker, and neither does my M.
Standard head units were originally fitted to both cars.
User avatar
c_w
Joined: Thu 19 Aug, 2004 16:50
Posts: 4032

  M roadster S50

Post by c_w »

Is the "amp" really an amp? and not just a crossover network for the front speakers? It just seems a bit "lacking" to be an amp, maybe it's not that powerful, but it seems to just deliver midrange to the kickwell speakers from the crossover.

I might cut the wires and connect them to the speakers to see if there is any amplification.
User avatar
c_w
Joined: Thu 19 Aug, 2004 16:50
Posts: 4032

  M roadster S50

Post by c_w »

DJBlack wrote:Hi - welcome...

The Z3 has as standard (assuming you dont have the HK sound setup) 5.25" units in the footwells plus a single tweeter in each door. This is supplimented by 4" rear speakers too in your model year.

Size etc? a 130cm speaker fits the factory hole (which is bigger than the std one fitted in yours) and can give a big improvement with the right unit.

David
130cm=5.25" :? Which factory hole are you meaning?
User avatar
Bestgear
Joined: Mon 12 Jul, 2004 20:04
Posts: 208

  Z4 roadster 2.5i

Post by Bestgear »

Hi there...

C_W - what I was meaning is that the standard kick speakers are less than 130mm and the holes they are mounted in are 130mm/5.25".

There is an air gap all around the standard speakers (apart from the mounting flange obviously) and it relies on some foam to seal the gap.

Hope that makes sence!
User avatar
c_w
Joined: Thu 19 Aug, 2004 16:50
Posts: 4032

  M roadster S50

Post by c_w »

DJBlack wrote:Hi there...

C_W - what I was meaning is that the standard kick speakers are less than 130mm and the holes they are mounted in are 130mm/5.25".

There is an air gap all around the standard speakers (apart from the mounting flange obviously) and it relies on some foam to seal the gap.

Hope that makes sence!
I think it does :) , but I think the ones in my footwells are 5.25" as the rear ones are 4" (which have a gap around them too). Earlier this evening I modified the system though and to me it sounds much better;

When I bought my Z3 it didn't have the original head unit in, so I put a Kenwood MP3 one in from my old car. Compared with the old system I had (Kenwood speakers all round) the sound in the Z3 sounded a bit harsh and all coming from the kickwell speakers (you could hardly hear the rear speakers and the tweeters on the doors to a lesser extent).

So, seeing how easy it is to change the rear 4" speakers I decided to buy some Pioneer ones to replace them with. I changed just one at first to compare expecting the old speakers to sound rubbish compared (as they don't look that good quality). However I was surprised that the original speaker was louder in volume and just as good quality so I put the old speaker back in! :oops: :?:

Having read above how the rear speakers and tweeters are run directly from the headunit and only the kickwell speakers run off a small Harman Kardon amp I took out the front left speaker with it attached. As the front kickwell speakers are run through and amp and a crossover which appears to let just mid-range through (so can sound a little harsh) it explains why the rear speakers and tweeters don't have the same volume balance when you turn the radio up.

With my headunit being fairly powerful 4x50W, and my old system not using amps but being loud and good quality I bypassed the HK amp/crossover by putting the pair of yellow wires directly to the front left speaker, and joining up the pairs of green wires which are the wires for the RHS speakers (a pair from the headunit and a pair coming back out of the amp/crossover). The front speakers to me look like pretty good quality.

So with everything running directly off the headunit I had a listen to a CD and was surprised to hear how much better it sounds with the HK amp/crossover removed; the sound to me is now better quality (the kickwell speakers delivering full range sound), and much more surround as you can hear the rear speakers and high level tweeters at the same "volume". :D
The kickwell speakers also appear to distort less running directly from the headunit, maybe because before I was compensating for the loss in overall volume from the rear speakers and tweeters by turning up more.

To me it doesn't make sense to amp just a pair of speakers in a 6-speaker setup :? and I would advise anyone to bypass the little amp/crossover box attached to the front left speaker. It can easily be reversed by rejoing the pairs of wires (all colour coded).
User avatar
Bestgear
Joined: Mon 12 Jul, 2004 20:04
Posts: 208

  Z4 roadster 2.5i

Post by Bestgear »

Hi folks...

Yup, would certainly agree C_W that if you have a "quality" head unit with a sensible output you *must* bypass the HK footwell amp if you have it.

Modern head units have more output themselves than the wee HK amp has!

I am goiing with a three channel amp (well, 2 plu s1 bridged), keeping fronts and a single sub in the boot. I am going to vent through from the boot to the cabin so the bass gets to travel.

Just going with a custom 8 (or perhaps 10") sub for the time being... box making is easy peasy even though the zeds boot is a very strage shape!!

As for venting the boot - bought a copule of 20 and 25mm hole cutters - the type that gives you a creat straight cut with no swarf or distortion. The small holes also lets the panel retain strength. Extra body braces keep things in check anyway...

D
Post Reply