BMW Z2

mnbrennan · Post by **mnbrennan** » Mon 12 May, 2014 06:35

BMW Z2 roadster is finally on the way, but it'll be MINI-based

http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/bmw-z ... ased-mini/

And front wheel drive. Discuss

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BladeRunner919 · Post by **BladeRunner919** » Mon 12 May, 2014 07:03

Ugly and front wheel drive.

bertiejaffa · Post by **bertiejaffa** » Mon 12 May, 2014 17:59

I think it's nice - at least with front wheel drive it might move in the snow

Davejue1 · Post by **Davejue1** » Mon 12 May, 2014 18:43

The back wing looks a shocker! Like it from the front tho.

the_youth · Post by **the_youth** » Mon 12 May, 2014 18:55

I like it. But I don't think I could bring myself to buy a fwd BMW. It somehow seems wrong. Especially a sports car....

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Mac The Tank · Post by **Mac The Tank** » Mon 12 May, 2014 19:01

looking forward to the M version; maybe something based on the Mini JCW GP?
Still should have RWD though.

Zed Carer · Post by **Zed Carer** » Mon 12 May, 2014 19:12

FWD and small turbo petrol engines not for me, or Mrs ZC.

Hopefully from BMW's point of view it will do better in the market place than the E89 as that has not been one of BMW's greatest creations - Discussion on Z4 Forum.

Del · Post by **Del** » Mon 12 May, 2014 20:22

Not really surprised it’s based on the Mini (Peugoet/Citroen) drivetrain. Every technician I’ve spoken to (BMW or other) has said that the generation of engines used in the Z3s, E36 and earlier E46, were a highpoint in terms of toughness, quality and reliability. Unfortunately, those days are over and the aim is now to produce smaller, direct injection engines that produce higher & higher MPG and low emissions. Mrs Del drives a Mini; nice modern, smooth car but completely different to the Z3 and it doesn’t give the feeling of having the same bullet-proof mechanicals.

Southernboy · Post by **Southernboy** » Tue 13 May, 2014 08:13

..... a "mini" Z4... with FWD.... no thanks.... maybe the M with 4 WD might convince me... but then I would first look at the quattro TT.... comes with a hairdryer in the headrest...

pingu · Post by **pingu** » Tue 13 May, 2014 17:41

Why are peeps so hung up with "RWD is best". If you plan on getting close to the limits of grip, then yes, you can balance the car more easily, but how often does that happen unless you drive like a loony?

FWD (& AWD) has the advantage of being able to drive out of a slippery side street onto a gritted main road.

FWD has the advantage of having more space for the driver and passengers.

What advantage does RWD have, except for handling? How often is this handling requirement needed by the average driver in the real world?

As far as the Z2 is concerned, if it looks good and feels good to drive "normally", then it's good enough. I think it will sell as well as any small roadster with a BMW badge (remember how the diesel E46 3 series [edit] convertible [/edit] was decried by the "purists"?).

BTW, I have a RWD car because I do drive like a loony, but I do it on a track. It hardly justifies BMW building 100,000+ cars just so a few loonies can balance a drift at Donington

.

akirk · Post by **akirk** » Tue 13 May, 2014 18:30

I am no expert so may have this wrong

but RWD - to stabilise going into a corner you accelerate - car snaps into line
FWD you brake to stabilise...

I know which feels more instinctive / drives better when 'actively' driving

normal pootling around - makes no difference - but if you want to 'drive' it then RWD all the way...

Alasdair

henrycrun · Post by **henrycrun** » Tue 13 May, 2014 18:32

OT but if BMW are going FWD then there must be scope for a 2+1 seat soft-top with a full size rear seat placed behind but in the middle with your feet between the front seats.

It would also stop the pain of selling up when the 1st child arrives !

pingu · Post by **pingu** » Tue 13 May, 2014 21:04

akirk wrote:I know which feels more instinctive / drives better when 'actively' driving

normal pootling around - makes no difference - but if you want to 'drive' it then RWD all the way...

Alasdair

The point is that 99,000 out of the 100,000 buyers of the new car won't be "driving" it, so why spend resources satisfying 1% of your buyers.

50,000 of the potential buyers will probably base the purchase on what it looks like.

I think it looks OK and those who want to throw it around will be able to do so much more easily in a car park (as long as the handbrake is not electric

)

pingu · Post by **pingu** » Tue 13 May, 2014 21:13

henrycrun wrote:OT but if BMW are going FWD then there must be scope for a 2+1 seat soft-top with a full size rear seat placed behind but in the middle with your feet between the front seats.

It would also stop the pain of selling up when the 1st child arrives !

I wonder if there is some sort of VOSA/TUV-type rule that stops that - possibly incase the occupant doesn't wear a seatbelt. It seems a good idea, especially as handbrake levers and gearsticks are becoming a thing of the past.

bertiejaffa · Post by **bertiejaffa** » Tue 13 May, 2014 23:05

Many different opinions and that what makes this site great

Regarding BMW and their rear/front/four wheel drive preferences there are many thoughts however mine is this:

I prefer BMW over any car I can realistically buy (Aston and associated bills are out of my range) but I have an Audi A5 Quattro because I live in the foothills of saddleworth moor and need 4x4 drive. Why do BMW insist on not making any of their standard cars 4x4 drive. They miss a huge marketing opportunity in my opinion; even if they only limit it to the top of the range like Audi do?

John Wilson · Post by **John Wilson** » Wed 14 May, 2014 08:31

You don't have to be driving like mad to benefit from rear wheel drive. When you are accelerating, the weight is transferred to the rear of the car, so that's were the driving wheels should be. When you are in a hurry to pull out of a junction, with a lock on, my focus front wheels are just spinning for grip. The Z3 can get out onto the main road a lot quicker and safer. A great shame about the Z2. There is just nowhere to go after a Z3. (Titan Tim has tried and failed).

Southernboy · Post by **Southernboy** » Wed 14 May, 2014 08:46

...... I'd like to see a mid engine AWD Z.... I'd even suffer a V6 vs a straight 6... but it would also need at least 400+ ponies, have a fully retractable top.. and not look like a Z4...

pingu · Post by **pingu** » Wed 14 May, 2014 23:17

bertiejaffa wrote:Many different opinions and that what makes this site great

Regarding BMW and their rear/front/four wheel drive preferences there are many thoughts however mine is this:

I prefer BMW over any car I can realistically buy (Aston and associated bills are out of my range) but I have an Audi A5 Quattro because I live in the foothills of saddleworth moor and need 4x4 drive. Why do BMW insist on not making any of their standard cars 4x4 drive. They miss a huge marketing opportunity in my opinion; even if they only limit it to the top of the range like Audi do?

They do x-Drive 3 series. I don't know about other series.

pingu · Post by **pingu** » Wed 14 May, 2014 23:36

John Wilson wrote:You don't have to be driving like mad to benefit from rear wheel drive. When you are accelerating, the weight is transferred to the rear of the car, so that's were the driving wheels should be.

I think if you can feel the weight transfer to the rear on acceleration, you are one of the 1% who "drive" the car

. Most drivers would never notice.

John Wilson wrote:When you are in a hurry to pull out of a junction, with a lock on, my focus front wheels are just spinning for grip.

This has never happened to me unless I have been trying to get into flowing traffic when nobody is letting me out. I'm not too proud to not admit to bad driving and almost causing accidents by letting my impatience get the better of me as well

.

I'm trying to think if there have been any bespoke FWD roadsters and I can't think of any. The only ones I can think of are based on an existing model.

Mac The Tank · Post by **Mac The Tank** » Thu 15 May, 2014 07:54

MX-5? Did pretty well for a cheap FWD roadster...

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akirk · Post by **akirk** » Thu 15 May, 2014 08:24

the one thing no-one has mentioned with FWD - torque-steer
the saab 2.3 full turbo I had would torque-steer in all 5 gears

bit disconcerting when you are trying to accelerate and having to avoid ditches and random cows in the field alongside...
split steering and drive and you get a more comfortable acceleration...

Alasdair

henrycrun · Post by **henrycrun** » Thu 15 May, 2014 12:01

There was the later Peter Stevens M100 Elan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Elan

BladeRunner919 · Post by **BladeRunner919** » Thu 15 May, 2014 12:11

Mac The Tank wrote:MX-5? Did pretty well for a cheap FWD roadster...

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If driven backwards, perhaps! The MX-5 is RWD.

Brian4 · Post by **Brian4** » Thu 15 May, 2014 20:19

Based on the MINI platform I believe and they don't seem too bad. The MINI is also available in 4wd so I am sure anything is possible and if it's front wheel drive it won't get stuck in the snow!!

As for front wheel drive poor handling most of the BTCC and WTCC cars are fwd and the hot hatches with 300 hp don't suffer torque steer now with the electronic differentials.

I think they will sell on looks so BM have to get that right and at a price to compete with MX5 and possibly cabio versions of Pug, Astra etc. They obviously won't make it with out a target market so what does everybody think would be the competition?

TitanTim · Post by **TitanTim** » Thu 15 May, 2014 21:07

John Wilson wrote: There is just nowhere to go after a Z3. (Titan Tim has tried and failed).

Thats true in many respects, my Z4 was never intended to replace the Z3 as they are quite different. One of the reasons why I'm trading the Z4 in for an M135i is I wanted to buy a new BMW whilst they still making a good 6cyl engine as I believe in a few years they will be consigned to history. You can see the path BMW are taking with the 4cyl turbocharged engines replacing most of the 6cyl, the release of the new 3cyl for the MINI and the new Series 2 Active Tourer due in Sept and pushing the i3. Will be interesting to see how the M brand fares in years to come.

Tim.

Mac The Tank · Post by **Mac The Tank** » Fri 16 May, 2014 20:08

BladeRunner919 wrote:
Mac The Tank wrote:MX-5? Did pretty well for a cheap FWD roadster...

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If driven backwards, perhaps! The MX-5 is RWD.

Really?? I never realised... Point taken then

lmrdave · Post by **lmrdave** » Fri 13 Jun, 2014 12:46

I've driven FWD and RWD cars.

I own 4 cars currently all RWD. I just think they are more fun. I also much prefer oversteer to understeer.

It's not a question of what is best on paper or whats practical, it's about feeling for me, passion.

There is no reason a 'sports car' cannot me RWD, it's a silly as saying a 'saloon car' must be FWD; it's only describing it's most basic format, a two seater recreational vehilce by my understanding.

Southernboy · Post by **Southernboy** » Fri 13 Jun, 2014 16:03

Nothing more pleasant than getting to the top of my road at the T junction and pulling away up hill to the right, I can easily get the butt to slide into line, correct the steering and head straight up the hill... always reminds me of what the tradition of a two seater is all about... solid steering, grunt at the rear wheels and the top down.... but mostly I like it more than sex... because I get to do it as often as I like... and the orgasms are real... and as the baird Bob D. said.... "May your step always be joyful, and may you stay, forever young".
I love the tangibility of the Z3. It has kept in touch with the feeling of driving a car vs being carried by it. It doesn't allow too much innatention to keeping it where you want it to be. It's smooth motor engenders a sense of purpose and reliability. By no means the quickest cars, they are also not the slowest, and in spite of the naysayers, the sexist detractors and the unconverted, it is because of the variety of emotions it evokes that makes it as good as a Mona Lisa, with which it shares the same enigmatic interest from so many. It is as much of a compliment to hear someone say they don't like them... very few cars have enough character to compel such a comment. There are members here who are mostly concerned with the "look" of the car, others are mostly concerned with a hobby which allows them to escape to their cars to tinker.. other's still, are enjoying the tranformative expression of themselves to the car and changing small facets to individualise them... each is involved with his Z3.... but perhaps the true Z3 owner is the one who does at least one of the above but, above all takes every opportunity to drive the car.... and a great two seater tourer it is.... Now I think I'll take a drive up to the local.... and I can't wait to get to the T junction......

gookah · Post by **gookah** » Fri 13 Jun, 2014 17:35

Southernboy wrote: I love the tangibility of the Z3. It has kept in touch with the feeling of driving a car vs being carried by it. It doesn't allow too much innatention to keeping it where you want it to be. It's smooth motor engenders a sense of purpose and reliability. By no means the quickest cars, they are also not the slowest, and in spite of the naysayers, the sexist detractors and the unconverted, it is because of the variety of emotions it evokes that makes it as good as a Mona Lisa, with which it shares the same enigmatic interest from so many. It is as much of a compliment to hear someone say they don't like them... very few cars have enough character to compel such a comment. There are members here who are mostly concerned with the "look" of the car, others are mostly concerned with a hobby which allows them to escape to their cars to tinker.. other's still, are enjoying the tranformative expression of themselves to the car and changing small facets to individualise them... each is involved with his Z3.... but perhaps the true Z3 owner is the one who does at least one of the above but, above all takes every opportunity to drive the car.... and a great two seater tourer it is.... Now I think I'll take a drive up to the local.... and I can't wait to get to the T junction......

They are still a hairdresser's car.....

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