London congestion charges

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John Wilson
Joined: Fri 12 Jun, 2009 13:11
Posts: 240

  Z3 roadster 2.0
Location: Diss

London congestion charges

Post by John Wilson » Tue 04 Apr, 2017 22:54

I see that for Z1, Z3 and some Z4 drivers, we'll have to pay to drive through London. I think it will be £24 a day. The real problem on our roads are diesel cars. They produce the PM10 paticles that are small enough to penetrate into the lungs and have caused such a huge increase in asthma amongst young people. Diesels which the government has encouraged. Petrol cars dont produce them and my car has a cat which removes the NOx and CO. Even on the television, as I'm writing this, local tv are talking about CO2 as being a toxic pollutant. It is actually naturally occuring in the atmosphere and is not toxic. To be serious about inproving London air quality, we need to tackle taxis, buses and lorries first. I've always refused to ever own a diesel car, even when governments were telling me I should buy one. When PM10s get into the lungs, they stay there. When behind even a new diesel car, you can tell its fuel by looking at the end of the exhaust when its accelerating (even though VW might tell you otherwise).

therealdb1
Joined: Tue 25 Jun, 2013 22:47
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  Z3 roadster 2.0

Re: London congestion charges

Post by therealdb1 » Tue 04 Apr, 2017 23:21

I agree diesel is the fuel of the devil :twisted:
Reduced emissions in 'certain flavour of the month' gases perhaps but a lot worse including carcinogens being pumped out of the exhaust.
I feel sorry for those of you conned yet again by our wonderful leaders and have purchased diesel vehicles.
The same argument was true when we all went unleaded. At the time, sure we reduced the lead from exhaust emissions, but because the engines were running less efficiently we were producing more of everything else including greenhouse gases! Government hype again but we couldn't fight that because they prevented us from buying leaded petrol.
However, I do not understand the connection with the congestion charge. I lived in London when this was introduced and its purpose was to reduce the number of vehicles entering central London because Ken Livingstone assumed, as it turned out with reasonable success, that we were all too tight to pay a toll to drive into London. It had nothing to do with air quality at all.
I believe you may be confusing this with the "Toxicity Charge" which was recently announced and is scheduled for introduction in October which shall add another £10 per day to the congestion charge for dirty vehicles. This would have gone down well with the black cabs (which are exempt anyway!) and buses which are probably the worst culprits of the air pollution since by their very nature they need to operate for as many hours as possible in the day within the city area.

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motco
Joined: Tue 18 Aug, 2009 19:12
Posts: 634

  Z3 roadster 2.2i

Re: London congestion charges

Post by motco » Wed 05 Apr, 2017 09:05

Oxides of nitrogen are the demon gases of the week, apparently. Something well known about more than ten years ago but conveniently ignored in order to pander to the CO2 warriors. PM2.5 particles are more dangerous than PM10 because they are small enough to penetrate into the alveoli (little air sacs in the deep lung tissue), and cannot be filtered out with current technology. PM10s can be filtered but it is difficult. I smell a rat but I am a cynic.

Howard Adams
Joined: Mon 10 Oct, 2016 16:39
Posts: 42

  Z3 roadster 3.0i

Re: London congestion charges

Post by Howard Adams » Wed 05 Apr, 2017 18:07

I fully agree with the observations about pollution from diesels, I think the 1st steps should be to tighten up emissions on Bus's & Taxis.
Here in rural France our air quality is superb, mainly down to the amount of trees & the rural inviroment. 90% of cars in France are diesels as the cost is about £1 à litre.
I'm not sure all this talk of banning diesels is the way forward. I run a Mazda CX-5 diesel that does about 50 mpg, where as the Z3 3.0i does about 30mpg!
The main culprits are the older cars (6 to 8 years) that have higher emissions, maybe incentives to change to cleaner diesels
is the way forward.
If they made a Mazda CX-5 petrol that did 50mpg (real consumption) I would possibly change, but until that happens il stick with what iv got.
Paris has been alternating odds & evens no plates being allowed into the city, maybe it's one of many small steps that will eventually help.
Bordeaux has an excellent Park & Ride, You pay €4 to park and that includes your electric tram journeys for all your passengers. Another small step.
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Del
Joined: Sat 19 Nov, 2011 18:35
Posts: 2115

  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: London congestion charges

Post by Del » Wed 05 Apr, 2017 20:58

Diesel cars are more thermally efficient (better MPG on a like-for-like basis) and produce less Co2 (so called greenhouse gas). Modern diesels have DPFs (soot filters) and so if you look at the tips of a modern diesel they will be completely clean. The recent fuss in the US was over NOX emissions which dissipate naturally but in cities, in concentration, are suspected to cause asthma symptoms in certain vulnerable people - this has been addressed in the most modern diesels with EGR and "Add-Blue" systems. Petrol cars still produce NOX.

There is a drive (excuse pun) to introduce electric cars in cities which will relieve the local, city pollution but overall helps very little as they need to recharge every 100 miles or so from the national grid.

therealdb1
Joined: Tue 25 Jun, 2013 22:47
Posts: 232

  Z3 roadster 2.0

Re: London congestion charges

Post by therealdb1 » Thu 06 Apr, 2017 12:10

Yup! And how do we generate the elctricity???
Over 50% of it in the UK comes from burning fossil fuels that's how "green" electric cars are!

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Jet
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Re: London congestion charges

Post by Jet » Thu 06 Apr, 2017 15:15

Less than 7% are private cars in central London, so very little will change. Are diesels to blame or is it the scapegoat for the fact the sheer volume of cars in London has increased and traffic has slowed to less than 10mph?

Thousands bought diesels on the advice of GOV, apparently they were efficient, clean, returned good MPG, many benefitted from lower VED, forecourt prices have changed due to the demand for diesel, which is more expensive than unleaded.

Im presuming this negative publicity will mean diesel fuel gets cheaper and VED tax will go back up, In the end will it make any difference to air quality?

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pingu
Joined: Fri 30 Apr, 2004 17:01
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Re: London congestion charges

Post by pingu » Fri 07 Apr, 2017 00:31

therealdb1 wrote:Yup! And how do we generate the elctricity???
Over 50% of it in the UK comes from burning fossil fuels that's how "green" electric cars are!
Yes, but you can enforce a few dozen power stations 24-7-365 to make sure their filters work and the energy is generated in the cleanest way possible.

How do you enforce 30 million vehicles? Once a year at an MOT.
Pingu

John Wilson
Joined: Fri 12 Jun, 2009 13:11
Posts: 240

  Z3 roadster 2.0
Location: Diss

Re: London congestion charges

Post by John Wilson » Fri 07 Apr, 2017 10:51

How do you enforce 30 million vehicles? Once a year at an MOT.
Youve answered your own question there. Theres loads of people on this forum who have had failed emissions on their MOT.
Charging batteries from power stations is an incredibly inefficient way of powering cars. I cant remember the figures,but you lose over have the energy by the time you get to charging the battery. And as for trusting the power stations, I.believe that after the accident at Windscale, the filters that stop radioactive iodine entering the water supply, were found not to be fitted.

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pingu
Joined: Fri 30 Apr, 2004 17:01
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  M roadster S50

Re: London congestion charges

Post by pingu » Fri 07 Apr, 2017 11:27

John Wilson wrote:
How do you enforce 30 million vehicles? Once a year at an MOT.
Youve answered your own question there. Theres loads of people on this forum who have had failed emissions on their MOT.
Charging batteries from power stations is an incredibly inefficient way of powering cars. I cant remember the figures,but you lose over have the energy by the time you get to charging the battery. And as for trusting the power stations, I.believe that after the accident at Windscale, the filters that stop radioactive iodine entering the water supply, were found not to be fitted.
It's then only tested for one hour, while the vehicle is stationary and off-load.

What about the other 8759 hours of the year? A power station is monitored ALL THE TIME.

I'm sure that there are loads of practices carried out 60 years ago that are still carried out today. Not fitting a £10k filter with the risk of a £10M fine is probably not one of them.
Pingu

bertiejaffa
Joined: Fri 26 Jul, 2013 10:28
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  M roadster S50
Location: Manchester

Re: London congestion charges

Post by bertiejaffa » Mon 26 Jun, 2017 21:37

My Z has the emissions of a nissan micra - fact!!

.....its on my MOT certificate
Here come the girls.....
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Alfie
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  M roadster S54
Location: Broadchurch....

Re: London congestion charges

Post by Alfie » Wed 28 Jun, 2017 10:57

RED puts out less CO2 in a year than an average mileage Prius, yet the VED is many times more.
The system is completely cocked...

Oh, and RED has never been in the Congestion Tax Zone and hopefully never will.

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