driving techniques
I enjoyed reading that, especially due to the fact that it is quite true!!
Question for all of you, just how "naughty" is it to pass on the inside when someone is cruising in the right hand lane at 65 and won't get over?:?: What do most of you do in this situation??
Idiots like that are the primary cause of road rage.
Question for all of you, just how "naughty" is it to pass on the inside when someone is cruising in the right hand lane at 65 and won't get over?:?: What do most of you do in this situation??
Idiots like that are the primary cause of road rage.
Cheers,
Lorraine
Z3 3.0
Lorraine
Z3 3.0
I never fail to be amazed at how inconsiderate other drivers can be, and then they get upset with you when you do finally get past them.
Grrrrrrrrrr..............
Grrrrrrrrrr..............
Ciao,
Spokey
Spokey
jackal on PH wrote:i love your profile... an endless pornographic paroxysm of the letters BMW
do you actually like driving at all or are cars to you just a manifestation of some sort of pathological mother complex ?
In the eyes of the law it is probably quite naughty - in my eyes it is not - if I had machine guns I would blast them out of my way - but I don't so I normally undercut them - then drive past glaring at them, with a single finger raised in salute to their fantastic driving styleLorraine wrote:Question for all of you, just how "naughty" is it to pass on the inside when someone is cruising in the right hand lane at 65 and won't get over?:?: What do most of you do in this situation??
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- Joined: Wed 19 Nov, 2003 13:55
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Most Embarrassing Moment
If a mobile obstruction is in the overtaking Lane, and has no intention of returning to the middle lane , I sometimes join the faster flow in middle.
Was coming along m/way in darkness at distance behind car in O/T lane , waited ! ! !, up behind me came car -- Lights Flash--30sec again, middle lane was empty-so signal and pull over--Vectra goes past- same Flash-+++++++ numpty suddenly pulls over.
Months later . was watching a Tv prog on Police and their work and watched as an unmarked Vectra was trying to make progress up a M/way.
He came up behind a perfect driver(me!!!) and I watched myself pulling over , as they repeated the lights to no avail, so they gave the Blue,s in the grill a quickie, which was why he suddenly pulled over .
Yes!!! the thought crossed my mind as well, NO!!! you will get Rob firing off some posts about that idea.
Was coming along m/way in darkness at distance behind car in O/T lane , waited ! ! !, up behind me came car -- Lights Flash--30sec again, middle lane was empty-so signal and pull over--Vectra goes past- same Flash-+++++++ numpty suddenly pulls over.
Months later . was watching a Tv prog on Police and their work and watched as an unmarked Vectra was trying to make progress up a M/way.
He came up behind a perfect driver(me!!!) and I watched myself pulling over , as they repeated the lights to no avail, so they gave the Blue,s in the grill a quickie, which was why he suddenly pulled over .
Yes!!! the thought crossed my mind as well, NO!!! you will get Rob firing off some posts about that idea.
safetyfast
Gawd don't get me started about some of the ignorant t**ts with no idea of motorway lane discipline that persist in launching themselves on the poor unsuspecting motorists who know how to drive
I tend to follow the David Route.....all guns blazing, mind you it was excellent fun on the M25 on Sunday in the CSL, funnily enough most people got out of my way
Me ..road rage......oooh never
I tend to follow the David Route.....all guns blazing, mind you it was excellent fun on the M25 on Sunday in the CSL, funnily enough most people got out of my way
Me ..road rage......oooh never
Larri ......Va Va Vrooooom!
Danger - Blonde with Attitude, light blue touch paper.......and remove yourself from area - sharpish
Danger - Blonde with Attitude, light blue touch paper.......and remove yourself from area - sharpish
It is no longer an offence to overtake on the inside, it was removed a few years ago. For those of you who have mislaid your copies of the Highway Code, the semi-official rulebook reads,Lorraine wrote:Question for all of you, just how "naughty" is it to pass on the inside when someone is cruising in the right hand lane at 65 and won't get over?
Consequently I ensure I am in the inner lane well before the 'obstacle' and check there's something somewhere in the distance that I can claim I am keeping up with.Do not overtake on the left, or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lines of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.
Motorcycle Voyager, a respected motorcycling magazine writing about 'filtering' suggests that in these circumstances you should limit your overtaking speed to no more than 15 mph more than the traffic in the outer lane. In addition, your actions should not cause other traffic to swerve or take evasive action, otherwise there is a possibility you could be charged with dangerous driving.
Far better than raised finger or fingers is a wagging finger telling people off. It causes blind fury in some people.
Tim
Good grief - you really DO learn something new everyday - three cheers for the Highway Code!
Fair point Tim, for me though if I'm going to commit to one of these maneuvers I prefer to get it over and done with double quick, to avoid a nervous 'lane-hogger' seeing me coming up on the inside and moving back with potential disastrous consequencesZmeagol wrote: you should limit your overtaking speed to no more than 15 mph more than the traffic in the outer lane...
Last edited by Giles on Tue 03 Aug, 2004 14:17, edited 1 time in total.
hi
im a little worried here,will your insurance company be happy and your ncb safe, if say you were overtaking someone on the left and they moved over into your lane unexpectedly,and damaged your car,then claimed that,you should not be overtaking on the left,also what else worries me is,that people just dont check there mirrors properley when moving back to the left,as they dont expect anything to be there,some people havent read the rules off the road for donkeys years
It's in the wording!
Would suggest it depends on the way you describe it!
"I was keeping up with the traffic in the nearside lane when another vehicle moved from the offside lane into the nearside without checking for space and without any form of warning or indication."
So whose fault is that, d'you reckon?????
A.
"I was keeping up with the traffic in the nearside lane when another vehicle moved from the offside lane into the nearside without checking for space and without any form of warning or indication."
So whose fault is that, d'you reckon?????
A.
Last edited by Alfie on Tue 03 Aug, 2004 14:55, edited 2 times in total.
Try driving in NJ, USA. It really is any man for himself.
Indicators are optional extras and rarely used. Mirrors are fitted but fall into the same category as before. The USA also don't get mirrors that help eliminate blindspots....
In the UK, we have the old phrase 'Mirror, signal, manoeuvre'. Over here it's 'Mirr... oh f*** it' (and just move anyway). Throw in rain or snow (where everybody just drives at the same speed as in the dry) and you've got to be on your toes
Undertaking is accepted here but there are also exits leaving the main carriageway from both sides of the road.
John.
Indicators are optional extras and rarely used. Mirrors are fitted but fall into the same category as before. The USA also don't get mirrors that help eliminate blindspots....
In the UK, we have the old phrase 'Mirror, signal, manoeuvre'. Over here it's 'Mirr... oh f*** it' (and just move anyway). Throw in rain or snow (where everybody just drives at the same speed as in the dry) and you've got to be on your toes
Undertaking is accepted here but there are also exits leaving the main carriageway from both sides of the road.
John.
Is 'under-taking' really legal now?
I was driving north on the M6 close to Carlisle the other day, minding my own business & cruising in the middle lane around the speed limit (plus or minus 5-10 mph, guess which one). Generally, once north of the Lake District, the M6 traffic volume gets quite light, and I was not too surprised to be passed by an M3 Convertible: I thought at the time that he was travelling a bit quick, but hey, if he knows where the speed cameras are, good luck.
A few miles later I came up to a Right Lane Bandit (RLB) travelling at 68 mph, so I (still believing that under-taking is illegal) pull into the fast lane behind him and wait for him to see me. Fat chance, but since I am in no hurry, I give him a couple of headlight flashes (which are ignored) and decide to continue to wait behind him hoping he will eventually see me: we continue like this for a mile or three.
At this point, what do I see in my rear-view mirror but a white 'Mercedes Sprinter/Ford Transit' type vehicle approaching fast from behind, so I pull back into the middle lane to let him try his luck. The white vehicle pulls level with me which places him behind the RLB, and he flashes his lights. At this point I notice that this white vehicle has two policemen in it, so I continue to observe with interest while they continue to flash the headlights (no blue lights, no siren) to no avail. After a few seconds, on come the blues, but still no notice by the RLB. I move into the slow lane, leaving the middle lane free, and sure enough, the police vehicle moves into it, pulls level with the RLB, but no further. I cannot exactly see what happens, but I assume that the police were trying to make it known to the RLB that they were indeed police. The police vehicle then drops back and moves into the fast lane behind the RLB who must have decided this was for real, for he somewhat abruptly moves into the middle lane (right in front of me, but I had been watching with interest so was expecting it), and the police went speedily on their way.
The RLB moved into the slow lane shortly after that, and I was able to resume normal activity in the middle lane.
About five miles down the road, surprise, surprise, there was the M3 Convertible pulled over, with the police vehicle right behind, with the blues on.
A few miles later I came up to a Right Lane Bandit (RLB) travelling at 68 mph, so I (still believing that under-taking is illegal) pull into the fast lane behind him and wait for him to see me. Fat chance, but since I am in no hurry, I give him a couple of headlight flashes (which are ignored) and decide to continue to wait behind him hoping he will eventually see me: we continue like this for a mile or three.
At this point, what do I see in my rear-view mirror but a white 'Mercedes Sprinter/Ford Transit' type vehicle approaching fast from behind, so I pull back into the middle lane to let him try his luck. The white vehicle pulls level with me which places him behind the RLB, and he flashes his lights. At this point I notice that this white vehicle has two policemen in it, so I continue to observe with interest while they continue to flash the headlights (no blue lights, no siren) to no avail. After a few seconds, on come the blues, but still no notice by the RLB. I move into the slow lane, leaving the middle lane free, and sure enough, the police vehicle moves into it, pulls level with the RLB, but no further. I cannot exactly see what happens, but I assume that the police were trying to make it known to the RLB that they were indeed police. The police vehicle then drops back and moves into the fast lane behind the RLB who must have decided this was for real, for he somewhat abruptly moves into the middle lane (right in front of me, but I had been watching with interest so was expecting it), and the police went speedily on their way.
The RLB moved into the slow lane shortly after that, and I was able to resume normal activity in the middle lane.
About five miles down the road, surprise, surprise, there was the M3 Convertible pulled over, with the police vehicle right behind, with the blues on.
SEP 2003: Bought 2002 Z3 M Coupé Titanium Silver with Black Leather.
OCT 2003: Adjustable interior Rear View Mirror.
Early 2005: Front Strong Strut. Replaced all tyres with F1s. Added rear Strong Strut.
AUG 2005: EXDOS Mod
SEP 2006: Retrofit Cruise Control
OCT 2003: Adjustable interior Rear View Mirror.
Early 2005: Front Strong Strut. Replaced all tyres with F1s. Added rear Strong Strut.
AUG 2005: EXDOS Mod
SEP 2006: Retrofit Cruise Control
what luck
Well today(after posting this thread) I went for a drive down the M42/M40 and remembering well what I had read, observed all the points made..
And then got pulled by the boys in blue
I was going to show them the document as per link but they didn't seem to want to read it
Anyway they had stopped me to let me know that there was a deer on the Motorway somewhere and that if I saw it whilst travelling at 82mph for the last 0.6 of a mile!! to let them know Neither were they impressed with the acceleration of my car when merging onto the motorway I pointed out it was only me and them on the Motorway at that point and took my slap across the wrists whole heartedly
But at the end of the day I was wished a good day and accelerate down the hard shoulder before entering the flow of traffic (but perhaps not as quick as entering the motorway!!)
I was polite at all times and would of taken the ticket, but as the Gent said "not the biggest law ever broken" at 82
And then got pulled by the boys in blue
I was going to show them the document as per link but they didn't seem to want to read it
Anyway they had stopped me to let me know that there was a deer on the Motorway somewhere and that if I saw it whilst travelling at 82mph for the last 0.6 of a mile!! to let them know Neither were they impressed with the acceleration of my car when merging onto the motorway I pointed out it was only me and them on the Motorway at that point and took my slap across the wrists whole heartedly
But at the end of the day I was wished a good day and accelerate down the hard shoulder before entering the flow of traffic (but perhaps not as quick as entering the motorway!!)
I was polite at all times and would of taken the ticket, but as the Gent said "not the biggest law ever broken" at 82
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there but for the Grace of -------- I
WE ALL hope that the Moral of our stories, is that if we are seen to be Aware of whats around us, and act with care and attention, BIB go about their REAL Biz, ehhhh!!!
safetyfast
Zmeagol wrote: It is no longer an offence to overtake on the inside, it was removed a few years ago. For those of you who have mislaid your copies of the Highway Code, the semi-official rulebook reads,Consequently I ensure I am in the inner lane well before the 'obstacle' and check there's something somewhere in the distance that I can claim I am keeping up with.Do not overtake on the left, or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lines of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.
Motorcycle Voyager, a respected motorcycling magazine writing about 'filtering' suggests that in these circumstances you should limit your overtaking speed to no more than 15 mph more than the traffic in the outer lane. In addition, your actions should not cause other traffic to swerve or take evasive action, otherwise there is a possibility you could be charged with dangerous driving.
Far better than raised finger or fingers is a wagging finger telling people off. It causes blind fury in some people.
Tim
Right, I feel I'd probably better clarify this - especially if some of you were thinking of "discussing" the point with BIB when stopped.
The important bit is "in congested conditions......adjacent lines of traffic....similar speeds". What this means is when there are queues on the motorway and everyone is bimbling along at 20mph, it is ok to stay in your lane even if you pass the traffic on your right.
What it doesn't mean is if traffic is flowing normally and some muppet is doing 60 in lane 3 then you can undertake. Nope, no sir, no way. That could leave you open to a charge of WDC.
Headlamp flashes tend to just upset other drivers, making you appear aggressive. A 4-5 second main beam "flash" makes you seem a bit more professional and less aggravating. Also, ease up behind slower drivers rather than appearing out of no-where. And if you're 'on it' a bit, drive with your lights on.
Think about how the plod would view it - Person A zooms up behind Mrs Miggins, flashes his lights a lot then undertakes:
Person B eases up behind them (ooh suits you), long show of lights then accelerates past when they pull over.
Who d'ya reckon is gonna get stopped??
I welcome your thoughts............
Rob
In God We Trust - everyone else gets PNC'd.
Oh Yeah.....
Rules upon Hearing a Siren
Upon hearing a siren, and thus being in the presence of a vehicle with a flashing blue light that needs to get past extremely quickly, calmly move over as best you can to the side of the road and wait for said vehicle to pass. Then continue on your journey.
Alternatively, do what everyone in the UK does: pull the stupidest manoeuvre possible, and do not pull over in a calm, collected, responsible way. Instead, swerve violently into to path of the oncoming emergency vehicle, or, if it's behind you, jam your brakes on unexpectedly to produce dramatic skids from both your car and the weary public servant who is trying to arrive somewhere else five minutes ago.
I've had this happen - more times than you would think possible
It's not a very pleasant experience when on major A roads certain MoP decide that rather than move aside from the big shiny noisy flashing car in the outside lane travelling in excess of the speed limit, they decide to execute a brake test and test the skill of the other driver.
"Goodness" we say, "what a silly chap/chapess". (Please insert a Spokey-ism here).
I'm glad to say so far no BMW drivers have done it! Please let's keep it that way
Rob
Rules upon Hearing a Siren
Upon hearing a siren, and thus being in the presence of a vehicle with a flashing blue light that needs to get past extremely quickly, calmly move over as best you can to the side of the road and wait for said vehicle to pass. Then continue on your journey.
Alternatively, do what everyone in the UK does: pull the stupidest manoeuvre possible, and do not pull over in a calm, collected, responsible way. Instead, swerve violently into to path of the oncoming emergency vehicle, or, if it's behind you, jam your brakes on unexpectedly to produce dramatic skids from both your car and the weary public servant who is trying to arrive somewhere else five minutes ago.
I've had this happen - more times than you would think possible
It's not a very pleasant experience when on major A roads certain MoP decide that rather than move aside from the big shiny noisy flashing car in the outside lane travelling in excess of the speed limit, they decide to execute a brake test and test the skill of the other driver.
"Goodness" we say, "what a silly chap/chapess". (Please insert a Spokey-ism here).
I'm glad to say so far no BMW drivers have done it! Please let's keep it that way
Rob
In God We Trust - everyone else gets PNC'd.
- Neal(2.8Roadster)
- Joined: Tue 18 May, 2004 09:55
- Posts: 255
- Location: York
I always drive with my lights since I read something in the motoring press years ago that basically said you were (some fairly high percentage I cant remember) less likely to be involved in a non-fault accident involving another driver hitting you/ pulling out in front of you etc if you drove with your light s on all the time.RobBruce wrote: ....And if you're 'on it' a bit, drive with your lights on.....
Not sure if this is legal or not but I have never been told not to do it (even when pulled for speeding twice a couple of years ago)
And it certainly does help the right lane hoggers to see you sooner and move out of the outside lane on motorways too.
- Neal(2.8Roadster)
- Joined: Tue 18 May, 2004 09:55
- Posts: 255
- Location: York
Yep, it's absolutely fine. Providing it's dipped headlights and not main beam!Neal(2.8Roadster) wrote:Not sure if this is legal or not but I have never been told not to do it (even when pulled for speeding twice a couple of years ago)RobBruce wrote: ....And if you're 'on it' a bit, drive with your lights on.....
And ESPECIALLY not side lights and fog lights!! If you want to do that, buy a Corsa or a Golf. I'll get my pen ready...........
Rob
In God We Trust - everyone else gets PNC'd.
Seems like Giles & I would be positively assisting the police in enforcing the law if we were to be permitted to shoot outside lane hogs
http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/23.shtml
Lane discipline
You should drive in the left-hand lane if the road ahead is clear. If you are overtaking a number of slower moving vehicles it may be safer to remain in the centre or outer lanes until the manoeuvre is completed rather than continually changing lanes. Return to the left-hand lane once you have overtaken all the vehicles or if you are delaying traffic behind you. Slow moving or speed restricted vehicles should always remain in the left-hand lane of the carriageway unless overtaking. You MUST NOT drive on the hard shoulder except in an emergency or if directed to do so by signs.
MT(E&W)R regs 5, 9 & 16(1)(a) & MT(S)R regs 4, 8 & 14(1)(a)
http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/23.shtml
Lane discipline
You should drive in the left-hand lane if the road ahead is clear. If you are overtaking a number of slower moving vehicles it may be safer to remain in the centre or outer lanes until the manoeuvre is completed rather than continually changing lanes. Return to the left-hand lane once you have overtaken all the vehicles or if you are delaying traffic behind you. Slow moving or speed restricted vehicles should always remain in the left-hand lane of the carriageway unless overtaking. You MUST NOT drive on the hard shoulder except in an emergency or if directed to do so by signs.
MT(E&W)R regs 5, 9 & 16(1)(a) & MT(S)R regs 4, 8 & 14(1)(a)
'High G' motoring enthusiast
Agree absolutely Tony, not sure why we are so pig ignorant in this country. On the autobahn's lane discipline is absolutely critical, when you've overtaken get your ass outta the outside lane otherwise you'll get some nutter in a chipped CSL coming at you at 178mph...TonyCal wrote:Just having returned from France etc. I can honestly say thier lane dicipline is far better than it is in this country. Very rare to see anyone sitting in the overtaking lane there.
(Or 205mph if you're in a chipped new M5 - this is the unrestricted top out speed apparently )
The new M5, now that is a Wolf in sheeps clothing! does not look much different than a standard 5 series, except for the side grills and 4 pipes. Saw one in Belgium, in the BMW Motorsport hospitality Suite, picked up a brochure too. Sounds fantastic.
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Lane hogs!
Simple.
All it would take would be occasional signs on our motorways saying...
"Keep left unless overtaking."
Then there would be NO excuse of ignorance, not that that suggests innocence.
Can anyone think of any road safety reason NOT to do this????
Please educate me, coz I can't think of one.
Having said that, the safest place to be is the middle lane (incase of tyre blow out) but awareness of approaching traffic from behind should make you move left immediately.
Middle and outside lane hogs demonstrate a level of rudeness and ignorance that says a whole lot about their personalities, not just their knowledge of driving rules. We all meet them in every other part of life, so no surprise to meet them on the road too!
I hate the ignorant geets!
Cheers!
Alfie.
All it would take would be occasional signs on our motorways saying...
"Keep left unless overtaking."
Then there would be NO excuse of ignorance, not that that suggests innocence.
Can anyone think of any road safety reason NOT to do this????
Please educate me, coz I can't think of one.
Having said that, the safest place to be is the middle lane (incase of tyre blow out) but awareness of approaching traffic from behind should make you move left immediately.
Middle and outside lane hogs demonstrate a level of rudeness and ignorance that says a whole lot about their personalities, not just their knowledge of driving rules. We all meet them in every other part of life, so no surprise to meet them on the road too!
I hate the ignorant geets!
Cheers!
Alfie.
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- Z Register organiser
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Look the other way--Problem GONE!!!
Dream On!!!!!!!!!!! all the idea,s from Guns n Signs, mean Zilch.
You , Me . and Rob know if there aint no ENFORCEMENT--ie PUNISHMENT = FINES + Points, nobody will take the slightest notice.
If the point hasnt got home, it never Will ..Joyrider leads 6 pursuit cars of various ability, + a Chopper in Nightmare scene thro a Busy housing estate, down Paths between Houses, Death just waitng to happen.15 year old does a runner, caught by infa red Cam.My Estimate £30, 000-50,000 expence to YOU & me in Council and Income tax,s .
Result-------- Youth who has 37 previous convictions, is given a £200 fine & Banned from driving for 6MONTHs. I maybe should NOT comment on the Intelligence of the Magistrates-Judges, nor on a Supposed lack of a law suitable( So nobody Noticed this has been going on for 25 Years) to loose this " Just a question of time Killer", for 5 Years in a Prison.We let him have another set of keys, and repeat this criminal fiasco, within weeks.
Everyone agrees, this is wrong But-- Where does the REAL power lie in the UK??
You , Me . and Rob know if there aint no ENFORCEMENT--ie PUNISHMENT = FINES + Points, nobody will take the slightest notice.
If the point hasnt got home, it never Will ..Joyrider leads 6 pursuit cars of various ability, + a Chopper in Nightmare scene thro a Busy housing estate, down Paths between Houses, Death just waitng to happen.15 year old does a runner, caught by infa red Cam.My Estimate £30, 000-50,000 expence to YOU & me in Council and Income tax,s .
Result-------- Youth who has 37 previous convictions, is given a £200 fine & Banned from driving for 6MONTHs. I maybe should NOT comment on the Intelligence of the Magistrates-Judges, nor on a Supposed lack of a law suitable( So nobody Noticed this has been going on for 25 Years) to loose this " Just a question of time Killer", for 5 Years in a Prison.We let him have another set of keys, and repeat this criminal fiasco, within weeks.
Everyone agrees, this is wrong But-- Where does the REAL power lie in the UK??
safetyfast
Sorry Alfie, I can't agree with you when you say that the safest place to be is the middle lane in case of tyre blow out. There are many things that can happen when a tyre lets go and it doesn't always matter whether it's a front or rear tyre. You are in the lap of the gods because you are not going to be able to control it 99% of the time. If you do come out of it unscathed without hitting the barrier or anybody else you have been extremely lucky. You could start off in lane one and end up against the central barrier and vice versa.
We all have a photographic memory, just some don't take the lens cap off!
- mrloneranger
- Joined: Tue 18 May, 2004 10:01
- Posts: 104
- Location: Northampton
Interesting topic,
There is nothing more frustrating than middle lane hogers.
But from time to time i try to tell myself to stick to the national limit then you really see whats going on. But I have noticed when pulling over to let people pass you always get that one person who decides to creep past a 70.000009mph and then stop you from getting out again.
Birmingham weather, I've been caught twice with rain and roof down although I must say I didn't really get that wet. But I did class it as an emergency so I pulled over on the hard shoulder lightly pressing the brake pedal and raised the roof without actually stopping.
Nice touch... M6 Toll, Great road well worth £3 for 155mph run in the //M (just kidding........)
There is nothing more frustrating than middle lane hogers.
But from time to time i try to tell myself to stick to the national limit then you really see whats going on. But I have noticed when pulling over to let people pass you always get that one person who decides to creep past a 70.000009mph and then stop you from getting out again.
Birmingham weather, I've been caught twice with rain and roof down although I must say I didn't really get that wet. But I did class it as an emergency so I pulled over on the hard shoulder lightly pressing the brake pedal and raised the roof without actually stopping.
Nice touch... M6 Toll, Great road well worth £3 for 155mph run in the //M (just kidding........)