After reading tales (on the Z3 Roadster forum)of epic speeds on French autoroutes after the le Mans weekend, my general reaction was that it is little wonder the gendarmes regard UK-registered cars as being amongst the worst offenders in the speeding stakes, and therefore treat all their drivers with little or no sympathy.
I wonder if any of those who claim to have attained 150 to 185 mph on their journey back to Calais have any qualities other than a heavy right foot? Although I imagine that they only reach such speeds for an ego-satisfying second or two, the sheer amount of road space which one requires is vast, unless you have second sight or a death wish!
While you are checking your satnav to confirm your 185 mph, you are covering about 300 feet per second, and quite probably overtaking other vehicles travelling at 80 mph or so, whose drivers do not even know you are there, until you flash past. While this may be great for one’s ego, it means that any of them may quite reasonably decide to overtake before seeing you, or realising the enormous speed differential which exists.
Even if they do see you in time, and pull back, and if your eyesight and reflexes have enabled you to see their manouvre and take (hopefully) appropriate action –your violent steering and braking at such speeds could cause you to lose control.
Frankly, I doubt if most of us possess the fighter-pilot type eyesight, judgement, reflexes, and co-ordination necessary to drive reasonably safely at such speeds – and I’m certain that none of the other drivers sharing that piece of road with you did not. I’m equally certain that almost all those indulging in seriously high speeds will not have totally abstained from alcohol for the previous 24 to 48 hours. Even a trace of alcohol in one’s system can make all the difference at such speeds. Remember that the by-products of smoking also slow one’s reflexes.
It is a very unusual person whose eyesight and judgement are such that they can tell whether a dot on the horizon is a 100 mph slower vehicle, or the tail end of a stationary queue – and that is without considering the inevitable problem of heat haze.
While I hesitate to condemn the breaking any arbitrary speed limit as being ‘dangerous’ I cannot find any other word to describe such behaviour – although other adjectives such as ‘stupid,’ ‘immature,’ and ‘egotistical’ do indeed come to mind. Such behaviour does nothing for other UK drivers when in contact with the Gendarmes, and demonstrates that those involved do not have the mental skills to compliment their car.
Although many UK drivers seem to feel that they are above the laws of any other country – particularly those of France – it is worth remembering that the penalty for such a gross fracture of the speed limit includes a fine of 1500 Euros, loss of licence for three years, and four penalty points (remember – your driving licence is an EU document).
If this is not enough, remember that in France it is an offence to drive with a level of alcohol in one’s blood above 0.5 gramme/litre, which may well be the case after a celebratory last night, particularly at an even such as le Mans. This offence carries fine of 135 Euros, a three year ban, and 6 penalty points.
On top of all this, if your massively excessive speeding involves an accident causing serious injury to others, you can be fined 45,000 Euros (yes – 30,000 pounds!) lose your licence for ten years, receive 6 penalty points, and go to jail for three years.
Perhaps I’m just an old stick-in- the-mud, but my advice to those who (like myself and most frenchmen!) cannot resist the lure of France’s largely traffic-free roads is to bend the law rather than totally destroy it, use some common sense and discretion when you do so, and do it on one of the many twisting roads which put a premium of driving ability rather than a heavy right foot.
Speeding in France
In appreciating your comments
I'd like to pose a couple of questions to you Mike;
1. What other than starting a flame war do you hope to achieve if people who do this are as you say.........."idiotic, immature, egotistical"? They're not likely to respond sensibly to rational argument are they?
2. Are you also willing to take to task the people who cannot see properly in the first place, truckers who fall asleep at the wheel 'cos they've driven for 17 hours without a break, or those who deliberately sideswipe british cars, people who do excessive speeds in built up areas (where the risk of death or injury is many times higher) even thought the perceived speed excess to them is so much smaller ........... and all of the other ills of this world?
but I do hear what you're saying and think you may receive a better response with some subtle editing?
I gave up being 'Captain of the World' years ago as I realised there are so many more better qualified to be in those shoes.
1. What other than starting a flame war do you hope to achieve if people who do this are as you say.........."idiotic, immature, egotistical"? They're not likely to respond sensibly to rational argument are they?
2. Are you also willing to take to task the people who cannot see properly in the first place, truckers who fall asleep at the wheel 'cos they've driven for 17 hours without a break, or those who deliberately sideswipe british cars, people who do excessive speeds in built up areas (where the risk of death or injury is many times higher) even thought the perceived speed excess to them is so much smaller ........... and all of the other ills of this world?
but I do hear what you're saying and think you may receive a better response with some subtle editing?
I gave up being 'Captain of the World' years ago as I realised there are so many more better qualified to be in those shoes.
someone in a minority once wrote:I know I'm in a minority
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slickster22
- Joined: Mon 29 Nov, 2004 21:08
- Posts: 117
- Location: Oxford
Sorry to have upset you Mike, we had a fun weekend and Le Mans is my one petrolhead holiday each year and has been like this for many years. The gendarmes have done very nicely out of some people this weekend. So point taken and next year we'll be more sensible......ps I thought there was talk of next year that points received in France can be applied to a UK licence? Finally am still buzzing best fun I've ever had.
Mike, just join us on the french z3 borad, we are better educated delinquants! 
Seriously though, I didn't read the thread in question and to be honest don't really intend to do so, but my general view is :
-cruising @ 100mph is good enough and relatively safe (for your driving licence too as below 20mph excess you only get 2 point and 90€ fine)
-Higher speed can be fun, just to see what the car can do, but the responsible attitude is to do that when the roads are pretty clear.
@mike: there is a meeting shaping up in "les vosges" for september if you want to join (altthough it's a good drive for you. I'll be coming from ireland myself). have a look on the french board, www.z3club.fr is the new address.
Seriously though, I didn't read the thread in question and to be honest don't really intend to do so, but my general view is :
-cruising @ 100mph is good enough and relatively safe (for your driving licence too as below 20mph excess you only get 2 point and 90€ fine)
-Higher speed can be fun, just to see what the car can do, but the responsible attitude is to do that when the roads are pretty clear.
@mike: there is a meeting shaping up in "les vosges" for september if you want to join (altthough it's a good drive for you. I'll be coming from ireland myself). have a look on the french board, www.z3club.fr is the new address.
Sorry Mike your barking up the wrong tree on this one, the French drivers kill enough of there own--just look at their own published road death figures.
I have looked at the Lemans thread on zroadster and see no 150 or 185mph figures.
On other more speed orientated forums, Yes some crazy figures have been mentioned, mostly KPH (if I have missed this thread on here please point me in the correct direction.) and even on those sites no accidents or deaths, just the French police happily removed Euros' from the British, then sitting in the cars and having their photo's taken along side of them.
motorway limits were 130kph dry, which it was
.. and I probably drove at......in fact I won't mention a speed because either way I will be shot down by someone 
I had a safe and enjoyable time whilst driving in France and apart from one time when I did have a little fun (ON A RACE TRACK). I saw nothing but great camaraderie from the British drivers and the French Police.
Maybe if we write and complain about this to the ACO at Lemans they will stop those crazy drivers from driving at crazy speeds and making lots of noise for 24hrs... and then all will be safe and well in France once again.
garyw
I have looked at the Lemans thread on zroadster and see no 150 or 185mph figures.
On other more speed orientated forums, Yes some crazy figures have been mentioned, mostly KPH (if I have missed this thread on here please point me in the correct direction.) and even on those sites no accidents or deaths, just the French police happily removed Euros' from the British, then sitting in the cars and having their photo's taken along side of them.
motorway limits were 130kph dry, which it was
.. and I probably drove at......in fact I won't mention a speed because either way I will be shot down by someone I had a safe and enjoyable time whilst driving in France and apart from one time when I did have a little fun (ON A RACE TRACK). I saw nothing but great camaraderie from the British drivers and the French Police.
Maybe if we write and complain about this to the ACO at Lemans they will stop those crazy drivers from driving at crazy speeds and making lots of noise for 24hrs... and then all will be safe and well in France once again.
garyw
Last edited by garyw on Thu 23 Jun, 2005 17:58, edited 1 time in total.
I dont' see it as an ego thing 
Speed gives an adrenalin buzz.. pure & simple.
Driving slightly in excess of the 130kph limit on an empty straight stretch of French road between towns in a car with tyres & brakes superior to the average car is not as dangerous as doing 35mph past a school IMHO.
150mph would be pushing it on two way roads though.
Speed gives an adrenalin buzz.. pure & simple.
Driving slightly in excess of the 130kph limit on an empty straight stretch of French road between towns in a car with tyres & brakes superior to the average car is not as dangerous as doing 35mph past a school IMHO.
150mph would be pushing it on two way roads though.
i wonder if you would be saying the same things had we come back from the German Grand Prix (via derestricted autobahns).
Anyway, off to fly my jet-fighter now, must keep my reaction times up to scratch so that I can.....
... massage my massive ego, topping out my z3 racing past frenchman (who have no road awareness) doing 70 in the middle lane, only looking at the tomtom speed indicator to get that extra 0.5 mph faster.
Tally ho.
Ade "Maverick" G
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miketheman2k
- Joined: Tue 05 Oct, 2004 10:45
- Posts: 289
- Location: Milton Keynes
Driving at 155mph isn't exactly safe, but then the M1 has a major accident almost weekly and that's people driving at no more than 80mph, right up each others asses, so I don't think 'speed' can be the only factor in dangerous driving.
When I drove through France I did go quickly. You can tell when something is dangerous or not, and with virtually no other cars on the road, perfect weather and a fast car, that was not an overly dangerous situation. I'd spent two weeks before that touring around Germany, Switzerland and Italy, and I hardly spent any time over 100mph, simply because it wasn't safe to do so.
If you want people to drive slower in France, close some motorways, don't resurface them and add some over-congestion. Won't make it any safer though.
When I drove through France I did go quickly. You can tell when something is dangerous or not, and with virtually no other cars on the road, perfect weather and a fast car, that was not an overly dangerous situation. I'd spent two weeks before that touring around Germany, Switzerland and Italy, and I hardly spent any time over 100mph, simply because it wasn't safe to do so.
If you want people to drive slower in France, close some motorways, don't resurface them and add some over-congestion. Won't make it any safer though.
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Guest
Oh Dear!
I really did not wish to initiate any kind of flame war etc, but if one publishes tales of great speeds on public roads, and wishes to only receive adulation in return, the best place to do so is probably the Max Power website, where your tale will be read by those of similar outlook! Remember - the whole idea of a forum is to promote discussion.
My view is different from those who regard 150 + on public roads as a good buzz, simply because if one wishes to do so, there are many other factors to take into account than how far you can press the pedal and - hopefully - get away with it. The writer asked (with tongue in cheek, I think) if this was 'dangerous.' I gave my humble opinion that it is, and backed that up with an assortment of reasons. We all have views on such subjects, and it is of little use to be upset if others do not have the same opinions.
The le Mans angle, is I admit, derived from those comments on returning from France on the weekend of the race - supposition, but having been to le Mans a couple of times it seems a pretty obvious connection. (see '150 mph hitting the rev limiter' etc)
Admittedly, as a Brit living in France I have a vested interest , for even though the Zed is now French-registered, the position of the steering wheel still labels me as a Brit. That means that the attitude of the gendarmes towards me is coloured by antics such as these.
But - if anyone can persuade me that 150 mph or more on a public road, with only two lanes and other traffic, is safe, I await to be convinced.
At the moment, the full impact of French law is being witheld from tourists' antics, but it will not be long until some well-publicised examples are made, and the usual post-le Mans race to Calais will give the gendarmes a good opportunity.
Drive carefully.
My view is different from those who regard 150 + on public roads as a good buzz, simply because if one wishes to do so, there are many other factors to take into account than how far you can press the pedal and - hopefully - get away with it. The writer asked (with tongue in cheek, I think) if this was 'dangerous.' I gave my humble opinion that it is, and backed that up with an assortment of reasons. We all have views on such subjects, and it is of little use to be upset if others do not have the same opinions.
The le Mans angle, is I admit, derived from those comments on returning from France on the weekend of the race - supposition, but having been to le Mans a couple of times it seems a pretty obvious connection. (see '150 mph hitting the rev limiter' etc)
Admittedly, as a Brit living in France I have a vested interest , for even though the Zed is now French-registered, the position of the steering wheel still labels me as a Brit. That means that the attitude of the gendarmes towards me is coloured by antics such as these.
But - if anyone can persuade me that 150 mph or more on a public road, with only two lanes and other traffic, is safe, I await to be convinced.
At the moment, the full impact of French law is being witheld from tourists' antics, but it will not be long until some well-publicised examples are made, and the usual post-le Mans race to Calais will give the gendarmes a good opportunity.
Drive carefully.
i typed a 3 paragraph response.. but in hindsight, lets just agree to differ on this one.
Anyway, off to the Max Power forum now to tell them how totally cool i am for driving very fast and bask in their adulation (I'll have to invent a few mods to the car before gaining their acceptance but it'll be worth it)
Ade G
Anyway, off to the Max Power forum now to tell them how totally cool i am for driving very fast and bask in their adulation (I'll have to invent a few mods to the car before gaining their acceptance but it'll be worth it)
Ade G
Re: Oh Dear!
fair comment.Mike Fishwick wrote:I really did not wish to initiate any kind of flame war etc, but if one publishes tales of great speeds on public roads, and wishes to only receive adulation in return, the best place to do so is probably the Max Power website, where your tale will be read by those of similar outlook! Remember - the whole idea of a forum is to promote discussion.
My view is different from those who regard 150 + on public roads as a good buzz, simply because if one wishes to do so, there are many other factors to take into account than how far you can press the pedal and - hopefully - get away with it. The writer asked (with tongue in cheek, I think) if this was 'dangerous.' I gave my humble opinion that it is, and backed that up with an assortment of reasons. We all have views on such subjects, and it is of little use to be upset if others do not have the same opinions.
The le Mans angle, is I admit, derived from those comments on returning from France on the weekend of the race - supposition, but having been to le Mans a couple of times it seems a pretty obvious connection. (see '150 mph hitting the rev limiter' etc)
Admittedly, as a Brit living in France I have a vested interest , for even though the Zed is now French-registered, the position of the steering wheel still labels me as a Brit. That means that the attitude of the gendarmes towards me is coloured by antics such as these.
But - if anyone can persuade me that 150 mph or more on a public road, with only two lanes and other traffic, is safe, I await to be convinced.
At the moment, the full impact of French law is being witheld from tourists' antics, but it will not be long until some well-publicised examples are made, and the usual post-le Mans race to Calais will give the gendarmes a good opportunity.
Drive carefully.
Sorry Mike but I think you're wrong! I don't think people are after 'adulation' for claiming to drive at speeds of 150 moh, nor do I think people should move over to the 'max power site'. It's not really about that. The Z3 is by it's very nature a quick car and people will speed. The nature of this forum is for people to exchange views and opinions and this is a case in point! If the thread was seen as being irresponsible, why was'nt it locked? Perhaps you need to take this up with Giles? You may not approve of peoples comments but unfortunatley that is life, people who drive cars that can travel at speed will push it. This may not be safe to do on a French or English road but people will do it.
Just giving you my opinion.
Just giving you my opinion.
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Guest
Forum
This is a forum, and is open to various points of view - some people my not like my views on great speeds over public roads, just as I do not agree with those who support such activities.
We all have differing views on most matters, and that is why we discuss them here. I'm not in the business of making converts, just putting my point of view.
At least it makes people think.
We all have differing views on most matters, and that is why we discuss them here. I'm not in the business of making converts, just putting my point of view.
At least it makes people think.
Mike I sense an impish desire within you to be a little contentious
Anyway what you say is true. No one in their right mind wants to see injury or death on the roads & the faster you go the worse your odds are.
It's just a shame that really really safe odds as safe as can be, just don't give a buzz. The only way to get 100% safe odds is to not get into a car in the 1st place
Anyway what you say is true. No one in their right mind wants to see injury or death on the roads & the faster you go the worse your odds are.
It's just a shame that really really safe odds as safe as can be, just don't give a buzz. The only way to get 100% safe odds is to not get into a car in the 1st place
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Guest
Perhaps Robin is being a little unfair to me, although if I see something I disagree with, I'm always tempted to reply.
There are other ways to get satisfaction from driving (a 'buzz') than just planting one's right foot down - such as driving safely but quickly (even if this means disregrading the speed limit!) which requires far more effort than just having a 'wottleitdo' session.
The main thing is not to exceed the abilities of yourself, your car, and the road/traffic conditions. If you can combine these factors with a healthy dose of discretion and self-criticism you will enjoy driving a lot more. As Dirty Harry said - 'A man's got to know his limitiations.'
There are other ways to get satisfaction from driving (a 'buzz') than just planting one's right foot down - such as driving safely but quickly (even if this means disregrading the speed limit!) which requires far more effort than just having a 'wottleitdo' session.
The main thing is not to exceed the abilities of yourself, your car, and the road/traffic conditions. If you can combine these factors with a healthy dose of discretion and self-criticism you will enjoy driving a lot more. As Dirty Harry said - 'A man's got to know his limitiations.'
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Racing Tortoise
- Z Register member
- Joined: Mon 07 Nov, 2005 15:53
- Posts: 894
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- Location: SW6
It's unfair, I think, to say that the French police view the British motorist as a cash cow. I was once done doing 168kph in the rain in Pas de Calais and it was a pretty fair cop to be honest. They were perfectly nice about the whole thing and the 600FF fine was not exactly the most drastic given the amount by which I was exceeding the limit.
And then just last summer the girlfriend and I were caught doing 135kph on a route nationale between Valence and Gap (the limit was 90kph). In my defence I was overtaking a caravan, behind which I'd been stuck for some time, and in the Audi S3 I was driving, such speeds are attained in a heartbeat when you floor it to overtake something. Mercifully the flics who pulled us over were totally relaxed and friendly about it and simply waved us on our way with an admonition to drive more slowly!
For what it's worth I tend to speed fairly freely anywhere in France south of Reims. Between Reims and Calais it is worth keeping your speed down and your eyes skinned. The police aren't daft - they know that bit of m-way is chockfull of overloaded British Espaces doing well over a ton in an attempt not to miss their ferries.
And then just last summer the girlfriend and I were caught doing 135kph on a route nationale between Valence and Gap (the limit was 90kph). In my defence I was overtaking a caravan, behind which I'd been stuck for some time, and in the Audi S3 I was driving, such speeds are attained in a heartbeat when you floor it to overtake something. Mercifully the flics who pulled us over were totally relaxed and friendly about it and simply waved us on our way with an admonition to drive more slowly!
For what it's worth I tend to speed fairly freely anywhere in France south of Reims. Between Reims and Calais it is worth keeping your speed down and your eyes skinned. The police aren't daft - they know that bit of m-way is chockfull of overloaded British Espaces doing well over a ton in an attempt not to miss their ferries.
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Guest
le Cash Cow
Exactly - the Gendarmerie are very laid back and fair, but will show no mercy if you really bend the law, particularly north of Reims. The best answer is not to make things too obvious - re my comments about driving in convoy. At hundred-plus speeds the odds are on a fine.
You probably stand a better chance of a telling-off without a fine than in the UK, except in built-up areas.
You probably stand a better chance of a telling-off without a fine than in the UK, except in built-up areas.
