Z4M v CSL

m33ufo · Post by **m33ufo** » Sat 21 Apr, 2007 23:47

Hi guys,

I've recently sold my 911 (996) convertible and am looking for something fun, exciting and fast to replace it

I used to own a Z3M a few years ago and was in fact quite an active member of this site for a while - although I appear to be a newbie. I've been looking at facelift 996's - I particularly like the targa. My thoughts then turned to BMW. Loved my old MRoadsetr and subsequent M5 and I always fancied a CSL. I have a budget around 30K and so the CSL and Z4M are there or there abouts.

I would appreciate your opinions on the Z4M and CSL. As I say, the CSL has appealed for quite a while and in many would make a more exciting alternative to another 996.

Cheers
Mark

cleomantra · Post by **cleomantra** » Sun 22 Apr, 2007 08:14

Hi and Welcome if it were my money I wouldn't think twice and I would buy the Z4M roadster, performance with open top motoring

Kipper · Post by **Kipper** » Sun 22 Apr, 2007 09:02

I'm with Cleomantra - the Z4M is a cracker.

CSL is more of an animal and better on a track, I guess it depends on how much a convertible appeals to you. The Z4m isn't compromised by being a convertible but it's not as hardcore as the CSL.

Giles will be able to tell you as he has a CSL.

996 is a hell of a car

Alex L · Post by **Alex L** » Sun 22 Apr, 2007 09:24

Kipper wrote:Giles will be able to tell you as he has a CSL.

and a Z4MC

RobBruce · Post by **RobBruce** » Sun 22 Apr, 2007 09:26

I'm extremely fortunate and have driven both (thanks Giles and Marcus

)

The Z4M is one hell of a car - don't believe the crap about it not handling. If you drive it properly it's like it's on rails. Very quick, sounds lovely and its open top motoring.

The CSL? Best car I've driven - including DB9, SL55AMG, Alpina Roadster etc. It's pretty hardcore - I'd describe it best as a track car for the road. But it's amazing - goes, handles and sounds like nothing else - and it's pretty exclusive.

It does really depend as to whether you want a convertible or not.

The Z4M would probably be in "My Garage" - the CSL would DEFINATELY be there.

HTH
Rob

m33ufo · Post by **m33ufo** » Sun 22 Apr, 2007 11:36

Thanks guys,

My last 4 or 5 cars have been (current first)....Porsche Carerra Cabriolet, TVR T350targa, Porsche Boxster S, BMW e39 M5, Lotus Elise 135R Sport and BMW Z3M. These have been over a period of approximately 3 year, I tend to change cars every 6 months or so. Although I have had the 911 about 9months (because I love it!) and only had the Boxster 2 or 3 months (felt under-powered).

As you can see from these cars I do like the ability to atleast remove a roof panel! I've craved a CSL for a couple of years and that's probably number 1 on my list at the moment. Although, I had more fun in the Z3M than in any car I can remember - loved it! So the Z4M is a real contender and seems to offer (almost) the ability of the CSL with the option of folding back the roof.

I loved my 911 so was considering the facelift 996 option to, perhaps in the targa spec.

Decisions Decisions...I have noticed that the CSL has started to edge up a little in price and long term I imagine that this car will probably hold it's value a little better than the others due to its relative rarity.

stu · Post by **stu** » Sun 22 Apr, 2007 13:24

I'd just add a word of caution to your consideration of a CSL purchase as the warranty of a newer Z4M would swing it for me.

I love the CSL as well, but I think there's a lot down to the driver/style/preferences and a well driven Z4M would be very quick. If you bolt a few aftermarket goodies to it (strut brace & CSL wheels with Pilot Cup's) you may find it very close to a CSL anyway.

There's a nearly new Z4MC on franchised dealers forecourt in Wakefield for £33k too!

m33ufo · Post by **m33ufo** » Sun 22 Apr, 2007 14:28

I do love the look of the Z4M Coupe but logically the soft-top is the one to have - is the coupe any more rigid, does it handle better?

The Z4M would be newer, have quite a bit of warranty etc etc but I do think the CSL may become a bit of a classic - I would love a 911 GT3 but the CSL offers most of what the GT3 offers for a fraction of the cost.

God it's a hard choice

For me, until I actually try a Z4M, it has to be the CSL...maybe!

Giles · Post by **Giles** » Sun 22 Apr, 2007 16:05

I can understand your dilemma if you were toying between CSL and ZMC, but CSL and Roadster for me are totally different driving experiences. You buy a Roadster primarily for the open top experience, you buy the CSL primarily for the driving experience.

CSL v ZMC, well for me that's more of a challenge...

Interestingly, only this afternoon remarked to Larri that for me the ZMC is probably about the best car I have ever owned.

The CSL was good don't get me wrong - it was all about raw power, noise, track days and having something that would always evoke memories of a very special car.

However, for me the ZMC is a better overall package. It fits me like a glove and if I'm not careful I could just run up 'huge' mileages since it's always the car I choose to use as my daily driver.

I'm really not looking forward to the E92 M3 coming out, which I had intended to replace my Z4MC with. I'm really not confident that I will be prepared to do so. I think it's no exaggeration to suggest that the Z4MC may be the best M-car to leave Munich in recent years. It's a shame some people may not bother to drive one to realise this.

Three people who have driven my CSL and also been passengers in my Z4MC have all commented that they have a sense that the Coupe is a quicker car. I tend to agree although I haven't taken the Coupe on track yet. The Coupe is as raw in feel and noise as the CSL, but I find it more 'nimble' and frankly much more fun to drive.

It's a total cracker right from the box and unlike the CSL doesn't carry the baggage of having the status of 'track car', which I think can be a double edged sword and was about to cost me dearly if I had held onto the car with more serious tracking in mind.

Also, great as the CSL is in the looks department, I'm afraid the Coupe makes the latter seem rather ordinary...

m33ufo · Post by **m33ufo** » Sun 22 Apr, 2007 16:32

No question, gorgeous car. Guess I should take a closer look. On the plus side I'm certain that I shall be delighted with either.

Thank you for your obviously well informed opinion.

stu · Post by **stu** » Sun 22 Apr, 2007 18:47

Farmer Giles wrote:A person who has driven my CSL and also been a passenger in my Z4MC has commented that they haven't driven the coupe or the Lotus yet, but still use their Stiggy sense to determine that the Coupe is a quicker car.

Giles, I couldn't agree more. Either way, you're not onto a loser though are you!

RobBruce · Post by **RobBruce** » Sun 22 Apr, 2007 19:38

stu wrote:
Farmer Giles wrote:ONE person who has driven my CSL and also been a passenger in my Z4MC has commented that they haven't driven the coupe or the Lotus yet, but still use their Stiggy sense to determine that the CSL is a quicker car.
Giles, I couldn't agree more. Either way, you're not onto a loser though are you!

There's only one way to really sort that out, isn't there?

Pound for pound, I still reckon the CSL is quicker, and more of a serious drivers car. But it's full-on, all the time. You really CAN'T drive it slowly.

The Z4MC is gorgeous, almost as quick and does have the edge in the prettiness department. It depends what you really want, whether you'll track it or not, daily driver, how long you'll keep it, etc etc.

You're in an enviable position, so try them all!

Rob

PS We'd like to compare the CSL and Z4MC to the Lotus, but he's a big girl and hasn't driven it yet

Giles · Post by **Giles** » Sun 22 Apr, 2007 19:45

RobBruce wrote:PS We'd like to compare the CSL and Z4MC to the Lotus, but he's a big girl and hasn't driven it yet

You're right. Snetterton is such a big girls circuit. Was there on Monday with the Exige. It was crap

m33ufo · Post by **m33ufo** » Sun 22 Apr, 2007 19:59

Pound for pound, I still reckon the CSL is quicker, and more of a serious drivers car. But it's full-on, all the time. You really CAN'T drive it slowly.

The Z4MC is gorgeous, almost as quick and does have the edge in the prettiness department. It depends what you really want, whether you'll track it or not, daily driver, how long you'll keep it, etc etc.

You're in an enviable position, so try them all!

Rob

PS We'd like to compare the CSL and Z4MC to the Lotus, but he's a big girl and hasn't driven it yet :lol

Logically I should probably buy a Z4MC but I know that if I find a decent CSL then I'm driving it home

Never been that convinced on the Elise on your average crappy UK roads. Let me be clear, I haven't driven the S2 Exige but I did have an Elise 135R Sport (track oriented S2 Elise, AO48's, I believe the lightest S2 Elise made). It handled beautifully on the the track or most smooth surfaces but not so on much else. That said, I was looking at the Exige 220 S with wide eyes. It's a beautiful car with incredible performance.

I assume that Giles has an Exige S? Damn, lucky guy!