Insuring a Z3M, an appreciating asset.

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Renaud
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Insuring a Z3M, an appreciating asset.

Post by Renaud » Thu 23 Apr, 2015 22:38

Hello All,

Last year, I came back into Z3m ownership and got myself an S54 Z3m. At the time I thought I had paid towards the top end of what the car was worth (£14K), but as prices for any S54 seem to be in the low £20K area now ( I know this doesn't mean they sell for that value), I'm starting to think I have undervalued my car from an insurance point of view.

So, the question is: have any of you had any experience of increasing the insurance value of a car part way through the term of the policy? If so, was it a real hassle to do and to prove the new/expected value of the car to the insurer? Also, was there a massive hike in the premium?


Thanks

R

bertiejaffa
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Re: Insuring a Z3M, an appreciating asset.

Post by bertiejaffa » Fri 24 Apr, 2015 00:33

My M is currently in the garage having a number of things done to it....and its fair to say that even with my non OEM look it is worth much more now than I paid for it. The garage I have it with does assorts of work from standard servicing to full refurbs of classic cars and they have written me an official valuation of the car's value for the insurance people. You have to use a more amicable/flexible insurance company (e.g. adrian flux etc) that will listen to the individual circumstance rather than put it through a "1 size fits all" algorithm but once they accept the valuation then that is the figure they are contracted to pay out - unlike standard policies whereby you can put £100,000 in as the value if you like but they will only pay the book price
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pingu
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Re: Insuring a Z3M, an appreciating asset.

Post by pingu » Fri 24 Apr, 2015 02:43

bertiejaffa wrote:... but they will only pay the book price
The "book" doesn't cover our cars any more :shock: .

I'll be asking the question at renewal time. I think that I will probably have to change insurer as I'm on a multi-car with Admiral.
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Joycey
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Re: Insuring a Z3M, an appreciating asset.

Post by Joycey » Fri 24 Apr, 2015 08:11

This is a very good question, one I spent a few nights worrying about.

I gave Adrian flux a call and they offered me a perk to the policy where I fill out a form take a few photos of the car and send it to them for a fixed price evaluation (at the time 10K)

Now I've had the bodywork re sprayed and wheels done I think I better get it re done.

This is a fixed price you would receive in the event of an accident writing your car off. I think it cost me £29.99 to have this option added to my policy.

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bertiejaffa
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Re: Insuring a Z3M, an appreciating asset.

Post by bertiejaffa » Fri 24 Apr, 2015 09:36

pingu wrote: The "book" doesn't cover our cars any more :shock: .
Exactly - the garage I use had an Aston Martin, 2 Bentleys, 2 Porsches and an F reg Roller on the premises all having work done and he's done the valuation for all of them so I will be getting him to write up the valuation.
Joycey wrote:This is a fixed price you would receive in the event of an accident writing your car off. I think it cost me £29.99 to have this option added to my policy.
Thats a great price for the extra peace of mind
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Re: Insuring a Z3M, an appreciating asset.

Post by ///M_aniac » Fri 24 Apr, 2015 11:10

Hamish (98 example with 70k) is only valued at 9k on his policy. This is what I declared he would be worth about 6 years ago when prices were much lower
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pingu
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Re: Insuring a Z3M, an appreciating asset.

Post by pingu » Fri 24 Apr, 2015 12:21

///M_aniac wrote:Hamish (98 example with 70k) is only valued at 9k on his policy. This is what I declared he would be worth about 6 years ago when prices were much lower
I suspect that if it were valued £9k six years ago, it will have devalued on the insurer's books to £4k max now.

Only 35% loss in value every 3 years is seen as exceptional. Very few cars retain 65% of their value after 3 years.

I've just phoned Admiral and the claims dept say that they would use the value out of the book. I explained that the car was too old for the book and she said they would get an independent valuer to assess the car's value. They don't give guaranteed values.

I will be changing insurer to one who does come renewal time.

Just phoned Adrian Flux - £350 (£300 XS) guaranteed value = £10k. It's more than the £200 (£850 XS) "market value" from Admiral, but I think it's worth it.
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Phil
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Re: Insuring a Z3M, an appreciating asset.

Post by Phil » Fri 24 Apr, 2015 14:26

My renewal was April 1st and it made no difference what value I put on the car. Originally I put £10k and then asked what difference it made to the premium if I revised up to £23k. The answer was zero. So my valuation is now £23k.
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Re: Insuring a Z3M, an appreciating asset.

Post by Southernboy » Fri 24 Apr, 2015 14:31

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pingu
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Re: Insuring a Z3M, an appreciating asset.

Post by pingu » Fri 24 Apr, 2015 14:41

Phil wrote:My renewal was April 1st and it made no difference what value I put on the car. Originally I put £10k and then asked what difference it made to the premium if I revised up to £23k. The answer was zero. So my valuation is now £23k.
If it's not a guaranteed value it means Jack. You will get what THEY decide is market value, this may not be the real market value.

Crazy prices...

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/ ... m-roadster

WeBuyAnyCar value mine at £1475, I wonder what Admiral would value it at? :roll:
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Badman gee
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Re: Insuring a Z3M, an appreciating asset.

Post by Badman gee » Fri 24 Apr, 2015 15:33

Great prices!
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Renaud
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Re: Insuring a Z3M, an appreciating asset.

Post by Renaud » Fri 24 Apr, 2015 17:29

Hello All,

Thanks for the comments feedback.

I finally got round to phoning my insurers today. LV said that they work in "Value brackets", staring at £0 to £20K, then up in varying increments, So as long as the value didnt go above £20K no adjustment to the policy was required.

I went on to ask how they would determine the value in the event of rite off or theft/total loss. This is where it gets a bit wooly, as they could only tell me that the value would be taken at market value at that point in time, so if this is based on something like "we buy any car", I would be out of pocket by a significant amount.

However, the one saving grace, was that they did say if I had an independent valuation from a specialist, then this would be taken into account

For the moment, I will find myself a local specialist who understands the current value of an S54 and get them provide a written valuation. When it comes round to renewal time, I'll look at getting a policy with a guaranteed replacement value, as Pingu has done.

I guess the message here is don't assume that your policy will pay out what your car would be worth in a private sale, or if you had to buy another. For the sake of £20 or £30, its worth getting a proper valuation to back up a potential claim.

Thanks again,

R

PS:
Lets home that none of us have to put the above to the test.

Phil
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Re: Insuring a Z3M, an appreciating asset.

Post by Phil » Fri 24 Apr, 2015 17:37

pingu wrote:
Phil wrote:My renewal was April 1st and it made no difference what value I put on the car. Originally I put £10k and then asked what difference it made to the premium if I revised up to £23k. The answer was zero. So my valuation is now £23k.
If it's not a guaranteed value it means Jack. You will get what THEY decide is market value, this may not be the real market value.

Crazy prices...

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/ ... m-roadster

WeBuyAnyCar value mine at £1475, I wonder what Admiral would value it at? :roll:
But if my valuation was £10k would they pay out more? That was the point of the exercise.
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pingu
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Re: Insuring a Z3M, an appreciating asset.

Post by pingu » Fri 24 Apr, 2015 18:04

Phil wrote:But if my valuation was £10k would they pay out more? That was the point of the exercise.
I don't think they would. They would argue that you undervalued to get a cheaper quote, even though a more expensive value returns the same quote.

At least now you might get £10,001 :twisted: .
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pingu
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Re: Insuring a Z3M, an appreciating asset.

Post by pingu » Fri 24 Apr, 2015 18:11

Badman gee wrote:Great prices!
I disagree. They will become targets for thieves. At the moment, scrotes see them as just another old BMW. Soon that won't be the case.

We will have to store them in locked, alarmed garages and only be able to drive them occasionally. That will be just to get insurance. And then the cost of the insurance will become the biggest annual cost, when it should be fuel :twisted: :drive .
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Renaud
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Re: Insuring a Z3M, an appreciating asset.

Post by Renaud » Fri 24 Apr, 2015 18:18

Phil wrote:
pingu wrote:
Phil wrote:My renewal was April 1st and it made no difference what value I put on the car. Originally I put £10k and then asked what difference it made to the premium if I revised up to £23k. The answer was zero. So my valuation is now £23k.
If it's not a guaranteed value it means Jack. You will get what THEY decide is market value, this may not be the real market value.

Crazy prices...

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/ ... m-roadster

WeBuyAnyCar value mine at £1475, I wonder what Admiral would value it at? :roll:
But if my valuation was £10k would they pay out more? That was the point of the exercise.


I guess it all comes down to the differences in the individuals policy. I now know that my policy will theoretically cover up to £20K, as long as there is evidence to support the new value, but I imaging that at the point of claiming it would be a herculean battle to get near that £20k area. This is why I'm going to get a proper valuation.

I did ask a similar question on Piston heads, just to get a wider audience. The one reply I got was from a TVR driver who had first hand experience: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topi ... ting+asset.

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Jewell
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Re: Insuring a Z3M, an appreciating asset.

Post by Jewell » Fri 24 Apr, 2015 18:22

This year I have insured with Adrian Flux. For an extra £30ish I have also bought an Agreed Value policy. I had to fill out a form stating the condition of certain bits of the car - electrical, mechanical, bodywork etc. I also sent them photos of the mileage, engine, bodywork, hood, seats, dash, etc. In the event of a write-off etc this policy "tops-up" the deficit from Market Value to the Agreed Value. My valuation was accepted :D Believe it or not you also have to let your insurer know immediately, if the car is written off, if you wish to retain your personal plate which can also be worth loads of dosh!!

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Jonttt
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Re: Insuring a Z3M, an appreciating asset.

Post by Jonttt » Fri 24 Apr, 2015 19:13

Apologies as I've not had time to real all of this thread but here is my tuppence worth.....

The debate has been had recently on the porsche forums due to the every rising value of the air cooled cars. The Z3m's I think fit into this principle but with a lesser "risk" in comparison but none the less still valid thoughts:

- be very careful with agreed value in a rising market ie it is what it says on the tin and win / win for the insurance company ie it is the MAXIMUM they will pay and they will pay less if they can prove the valuation was too high.

- otherwise market value rules and in the event of a total loss the principle is the insurance company has to replace like with like. This is usually in the form of cash so you can go and buy another one (or anything else you fancy) but you can use the current market to argue what that is ie a combination of current adverts, specialist quotes as to what they would market such a car at etc.. etc... remember these are retail prices for you to buy a replacement not private adverts ;-)

So in a rinsing market agreed valuation sounds good, but be careful you keep on top of what that is. In my mind all you are paying for is an easier fight should you suffer a total loss, the final outcome should be the same BUT the onus is on you to keep the value up to date in one scenario and not the other.

ps for info generally once a cars value goes over £50k it makes a material difference to the premium, so the Z3m has a way to go lol but at least you know if your insurers are just using that as an excuse to hike the premium ;-)
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eahornel1
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Re: Insuring a Z3M, an appreciating asset.

Post by eahornel1 » Fri 24 Apr, 2015 19:20

I changed my insurance from aviva to drect line i 2 weeks ago as the advert states they replace the car with one similar.. Now i asked in detail about having a fixed price for the car in case of a write off or it got stolen. the girl went to speak to a manager and came back to say if i have pictures and proof of the condition i would get a replacement to the same quality as the one i had. she also said the accessors would give a value, if i didnt want a replacement. But the proof is when it happens isnt it.. Price for the cover £170 for the year..

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Alfie
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Re: Insuring a Z3M, an appreciating asset.

Post by Alfie » Wed 13 May, 2015 15:22

Just insured RED for another year with the same company as the past 3 years.
I asked about the increase in market value and she said that in the event of theft or write-off, the assessors would look at the value I had given in the first instance as a starting point, and then check that against 'other factors'.
So it cost me just over £3 to up the value from £11k to £20k.
It's no guarantee that they would pay out retail market value, but it's a very cheap step in the right direction!

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pingu
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Re: Insuring a Z3M, an appreciating asset.

Post by pingu » Wed 13 May, 2015 15:33

Alfie wrote:Just insured RED for another year with the same company as the past 3 years.
I asked about the increase in market value and she said that in the event of theft or write-off, the assessors would look at the value I had given in the first instance as a starting point, and then check that against 'other factors'.
So it cost me just over £3 to up the value from £11k to £20k.
It's no guarantee that they would pay out retail market value, but it's a very cheap step in the right direction!

A.
A very wisely spent £3. At least the only reason to give you less than £20k is their opinion of market value. In theory, if you insisted on more than £11k, they could (rightly, in my opinion) argue that you had attempted to undervalue to reduce the premiums.
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Grazza
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Re: Insuring a Z3M, an appreciating asset.

Post by Grazza » Wed 13 May, 2015 16:38

As someone who has unfortunately just been through this you are right to be concerned about the 'book value'! I had a minor crash in mine only a few months after I bought it and the insurance co used Glasses Guide (which was the highest of the book values) which came back at circa £4900 (I paid £8k for a 1998 with 67k miles last Sept - cant believe how much they have gone up in value!)

Because of the valuation they would only pay up to £4k to repair it. I had to fight hard over a couple of months to get them to agree to the £8k insured value (including them sending an independent valuer) but even after they agreed to this they would not change the £4k max repair value and so it was written off! With hindsight I shouldn't have reported the accident to them and just got it repaired. As it is I bought the salvage and now just need to find the time to put it right.

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pingu
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Re: Insuring a Z3M, an appreciating asset.

Post by pingu » Wed 13 May, 2015 18:30

50% of market value is the normal threshold to repair.

The £8k less the salvage value = the payout. How much do you think it will cost to repair? Deduct that from the payout and use what's left to offset the loss in value from the Cat C/D declaration.

If the insurance company did its sums right, the resultant should be zero.
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Grazza
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Re: Insuring a Z3M, an appreciating asset.

Post by Grazza » Wed 13 May, 2015 18:50

The £4k figure was set against the book valuation of £4900. When they finally agreed to the £8k valuation they would not change the value they would pay to get it fixed.

To be honest the point I was trying to make is that the book values at the time bore no relation to the actual value of the cars (and this was before they shot up in value).

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