Cinders

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Wookee
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  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Cinders

Post by Wookee » Sun 13 Dec, 2015 21:15

Hello forum.... Just bought myself a very unloved and abused little Zed :)

It's the baby of the bunch being a 2001 1.9, but it is great fun and just what I was looking for

Image
IMG_20151211_114749640 by L

I've just finished restoring a 1973 Beetle and the idea was to get a new project for when I've sold that one.....errrmm..... I couldn't resist the deal on the Zed so they're both on the drive currently :lol: I have to get rid of the Beetle as the missus hates it and she's ok with the new toy and might even drive it.

It might look in good nick in the photo, but it isn't. For a start it's a Cat C ( I was told for 'vandalism' but it looks like a side impact to me), and it has just about every fault Z3's are known to get! I did a re-build thread for my Beetle on another forum so thought I might as well do something similar here.

Wookee
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Re: Unloved

Post by Wookee » Sun 13 Dec, 2015 21:33

So, so far I know of the following:-

Roof leak at both A pillars
Water ingress through the boot mounted brake light
Rear window knackered
Central locking only works from the boot
Drivers door panel knackered and handle missing
Dashboard light knackered
Both side marker lights broken
Rear offside light cluster cracked
ASC button doesn't appear to do anything (it just won't go sideways :head: :wink: )
Interior trim has seen better days
Wheel alignment miles out

I'm sure I've missed some bits out.

Until tomorrow morning it has 4 different tyres on it with the front two on the limit. They came with wildly varying tyre pressures too. I'll get them sorted along with the alignment which is about the only thing I need to get done at a proper garage. Everything else will be done on my drive, in my garage or at a friends larger place if I need to do any painting.

On the test drive the engine was very sweet, unfortunately it developed a bad misfire today that cut my fun a bit short. Reading on here I'm suspecting the coil, but will be doing a service on it this week and will change the plugs too just in case it's them. Got a Bentley manual on the way and need to get a diagnostic reader (1973 Beetles don't need them :lol: ) and recommendations?

deni2s
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  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: Unloved

Post by deni2s » Sun 13 Dec, 2015 22:56

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-Interface ... 1696690085
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Car-Diagn ... 1602705503
with your laptop (install INPA on it). That's the best, most flexible and cheapest option.

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Southernboy
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Re: Unloved

Post by Southernboy » Mon 14 Dec, 2015 06:03

Hello Wookee and welcome..
Look forward to your progress thread... you might be well advised to make contact with Andy - aka "Spurs fan in a coupe" on this forum. He will undoubtedly be a good source for parts as you require. Andy breaks Z3's for parts and has helped many members with bits they've needed, be it interior, exterior motor, body panels etc etc...
Good luck :wave
"Normal is overrated"
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Z3 Upgrades and Additions

Wookee
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  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Unloved

Post by Wookee » Mon 14 Dec, 2015 08:57

deni2s wrote:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-Interface ... 1696690085
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Car-Diagn ... 1602705503
with your laptop (install INPA on it). That's the best, most flexible and cheapest option.
Cheers....ordered :cheers

Wookee
Joined: Thu 10 Dec, 2015 19:45
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  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Unloved

Post by Wookee » Mon 14 Dec, 2015 09:04

Southernboy wrote:Hello Wookee and welcome..
Look forward to your progress thread... you might be well advised to make contact with Andy - aka "Spurs fan in a coupe" on this forum. He will undoubtedly be a good source for parts as you require. Andy breaks Z3's for parts and has helped many members with bits they've needed, be it interior, exterior motor, body panels etc etc...
Good luck :wave
Thank-you, I've seen his name mentioned a few times on here and am sure I will get to know him soon!! :D

Warrior
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  Z3 roadster 3.0i

Re: Unloved

Post by Warrior » Mon 14 Dec, 2015 21:56

Be nice to see a PIC of the Beetle! My first car!!!

Wookee
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  Z3 roadster 1.9i
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Re: Unloved

Post by Wookee » Tue 15 Dec, 2015 11:02

Warrior wrote:Be nice to see a PIC of the Beetle! My first car!!!
You can see 102 of them here https://www.flickr.com/photos/128928793 ... 2547752354 it also includes one of it in my previous garage. This was big enough to work on cars, but the wife made me sell that house for a bigger one that has a small garage.....sigh....

It's for sale at the minute, and will probably be back on sale in the new year as it's not the best time to flog a car :cry:

Wookee
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Re: Unloved

Post by Wookee » Tue 15 Dec, 2015 11:30

The 'discovery' continues! Took advantage of the lift in the garage when they were sorting my tyres and alignment to have a good look underneath. It looks like I might be spending some time under there :shock:

First up is my oil leak or leaks. Looks like definitely the rocker cover as this is at the start of this waterfall. Then possibly the sump seal and maybe another? What are the most common sources of Zed oil leaks? Doesn't seem a great deal of point changing the oil and filter until these are done.

Image

Image

Image

Wookee
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  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Unloved

Post by Wookee » Tue 15 Dec, 2015 11:54

While chuckling to myself under the Zed I decided that (being a sad individual) I'd name her "Cinders", she's got a patchwork Beetle and a 2001 Corsa nicknamed "The Skip" on the drive as company and stand-in ugly sisters :D. One day she will go to that Track Day! (if a Mod could re-name this thread Cinders for me I'd appreciate it 8-) )

Anyway, back to the carnage.... It appears that previous owners have managed to not get it in a serious whack and her Cat C status is probably as a result of vandalism as I was told. What one of them did do, while it was being neglected, is stand it somewhere where all of the elements could attack the underside....they possibly stood it in the sea looking at some of the bits :head: . I kid you not that my 1973 Beetle (Kermit- see above re sad) had a better looking undercarriage than Cinders. Even the mechanic laughed, though I did wipe the smile off his face when I reminded him he had some alignment to do too :twisted: .

Apparently this isn't a crustacean, but in fact a drop link of some vintage :shock:

Image

This was once an exhaust bracket....incidentally, does anyone have a part number or know where I can get a replacement?

Image

I can't imagine this getting through an MOT and the rubber exhaust support below it is broken too.

Image

Although not pictured the auxiliary belt is perished and I also noticed that the nearside wing mirror is being held in position with the assistance of a self tapper through the stem. I'm not certain, but I'm pretty sure Mr BMW didn't design it like that!

Wookee
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  Z3 roadster 1.9i
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Re: Unloved

Post by Wookee » Tue 15 Dec, 2015 12:03

The mechanic took it for two drives for the before and after alignment checks. The first ride was gentle and he didn't get the misfire so I told him to try harder on the second and this time he got it. He said he had smelled fuel a couple of times and suggested I checked all the fuel lines. Though I'm a bit dubious about his diagnosis as any misfire would likely result in a smell of unspent fuel?? Like me, he could 'balance' out the misfire by feathering the accelerator. Any thoughts/experience welcome?

As far as the alignment went, we played computer games and got the front toe correct, but the camber is slightly out. The rear is quite a way out and he couldn't correct that as there isn't anything to do that with. At least the wheel is straight and the front grip better with the new tyres. Though I have noticed that the rear end is twitchy and skips on bumps on bends. I'm guessing I can add the suspension top mounts to my jobs list. I'll also be doing all of the bushes, though the rear wishbone ones look like a fun job! Anyone done it?

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Robert T
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  Z3 roadster 1.9
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Re: Cinders

Post by Robert T » Tue 15 Dec, 2015 12:46

Hi Wookee and welcome to the forum.

You can get the part numbers for exhaust bits from here: http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog/Z3-Ro ... st_system/
(I put in a build date of Jan 2001 for your car, but you may want to put the actual build date in, just in case any parts changed)

Misfire could be any number of things. First thing to do is to get the codes read to see what the car thinks is wrong - if it has logged a misfire code, then it should tell you which cylinder. You can then play about with it to see what it is - swap plugs and HT leads over and see if the fault moves. We did this quite quickly on an earlier M44-engined 1.9 and found it was the coil pack - which I think is the same on the M43 - a single unit with four coils inside (the sixes have a separate coil pack per cylinder sitting directly on top of the plug, so no HT leads) - and we were able to confirm using the known good coil pack off my car.

Cheers R.

PS Fixed your broken img tag and title in your lead post. :wink:
Arctic Silver '99 Z3 1.9 & Black '59 Frogeye 1275cc
Image

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stevov
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Re: Cinders

Post by stevov » Tue 15 Dec, 2015 16:16

Skipping on the rear, check the rear shocks. Probably one at least away. Change the top mounts also.

Wookee
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  Z3 roadster 1.9i
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Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Mon 21 Dec, 2015 20:19

So, today my wife calls me at work to say her oil light has come on and after I got home and iot stopped raining I thought I'd have a look......hmmm..... am I the only one who has spent 20 minutes looking for a dipstick in a 2011 BMW!?! :oops: :lol: Anyway, after Google saved the day and that was sorted I thought about checking the oil on the Zed.

Once the bonnet was up, I couldn't help myself and thought I'd just change the air filter (been at work far too much recently :cry: ). Old one was pretty poor....then I thought I'd change the plugs.

These were what came out:

Image[url=https://flic.kr/p/CeLaLm]

More importantly though, the HT lead for No 2 cylinder was knackered with the end of the lead clearly water damaged. So I gave it a trim and a squirt of magic spray and with the new plugs in it seems the misfire has disappeared :D

Wookee
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  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Mon 21 Dec, 2015 20:23

Next up is the rocker cover gasket and while I'm at it I'll have to sort the cover out

Image[url=https://flic.kr/p/CeLbu5]
My theory that this car has spent some time sitting in the North Sea is reinforced by this manky thing :shock:

Del
Joined: Sat 19 Nov, 2011 18:35
Posts: 2115

  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Cinders

Post by Del » Mon 21 Dec, 2015 21:53

Wookee wrote:who has spent 20 minutes looking for a dipstick in a 2011 BMW!?!
I don't like this new fangled concept of not having a dipstick - I'm old school I'm afraid :D

Glad to hear the misfire was a simple issue - generally I find that to be the case on these little cars i.e. something simple.

That rocker cover should polish up nicely with some autosol and wire wool - BMW seemed to cover them in some sort of lacquer that yellowed and flaked with age.

I agree with the rear shocks being the likely cause of your skittish rear end - the combination of age and 70,000 miles rendered mine completely knackered when I changed mine in 2012.

Del
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Cinders

Post by Del » Mon 21 Dec, 2015 22:05

Most common cause of oil leaks around the engine are 1) The rocker cover and 2) where the oil filter housing meets the engine. Leaks from the timing chain housing are not common. BMW told me they sell loads of 2) across the range of similar aged cars and very few timing chain gaskets. The leak from the oil filter housing can get quite bad and spread quite far with the combination of gravity and air blast from the front.

Wookee
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Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 16:34

Del wrote: I don't like this new fangled concept of not having a dipstick - I'm old school I'm afraid :D
Same here, I couldn't work out how it manages to measure the amount of oil with the engine running??
Del wrote:Glad to hear the misfire was a simple issue - generally I find that to be the case on these little cars i.e. something simple.
Here's hoping everything else is a simple....I have to say the door card looks an interesting few hours worth :(
Del wrote:That rocker cover should polish up nicely with some autosol and wire wool - BMW seemed to cover them in some sort of lacquer that yellowed and flaked with age.
That's Plan A....and some paint is Plan B
Del wrote:I agree with the rear shocks being the likely cause of your skittish rear end - the combination of age and 70,000 miles rendered mine completely knackered when I changed mine in 2012.
I haven't really looked at the rear end yet (and the first job there will be the third brakelight seal), but I'm hoping that it's just the top mounts. I'm not too hopeful though as I reckon the bushes will need doing too. As I want it to handle well i might have to do the shocks at some point....is there a preferred aftermarket solution for them?

Wookee
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  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 16:40

Del wrote:Most common cause of oil leaks around the engine are 1) The rocker cover and 2) where the oil filter housing meets the engine. Leaks from the timing chain housing are not common. BMW told me they sell loads of 2) across the range of similar aged cars and very few timing chain gaskets. The leak from the oil filter housing can get quite bad and spread quite far with the combination of gravity and air blast from the front.
Having had a good look last night I know it's the rocker cover gasket and I'm reasonably sure the oil filter housing is the cause of the rest. As I need to change the belt too then the OFH gasket isn't going to take much longer.

What I am slightly concerned about though is that the top of the power steering fluid reservoir is covered in an oily substance which I hope is from the OFH. The other concerning bit is along the sump gasket, I really, really hope this is from the OFH and or rocker cover as I don't fancy that job :shock:

Del
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Cinders

Post by Del » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 20:18

Del wrote:is there a preferred aftermarket solution for them?
If you're keeping the suspension at the same height, the decent aftermarket option is the Sachs Super Touring (Eurocarparts). The originals were Boge/Sachs (same company) and the OE shocks on my daily driver Audi are Sachs - so they are a good, German make and cheaper than the equivalent Bilstein B4. I've put Super Touring on my 1.9 Z3 and been very happy with them - handling is fine.

When/if you replace the oil filter body gasket - ensure you buy the whole kit which includes a little spring valve and o-ring - it only costs a few pounds. I had a chat with BMW and without actually saying there were " a batch" of faulty ones fitted - he recommended the kit. When I removed the old spring valve I noticed it had no o-ring - strange that :roll: :D

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Southernboy
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Re: Cinders

Post by Southernboy » Wed 23 Dec, 2015 05:19

The power steering reservoirs on these cars are known to "sweat". They are forever getting "oily". As you said originally, the car hasn't been loved, and the build-up of oil in various places has been allowed over a long period. You may just need a new oil ring seal on the PS reservoir screw on top and a good clean up.
Also, I have not seen or heard of a Z3 with a sump oil leak, so you may find the mess down there is originating higher up. :wink:
"Normal is overrated"
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Wookee
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Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Thu 24 Dec, 2015 18:06

Del wrote:
Del wrote:is there a preferred aftermarket solution for them?
If you're keeping the suspension at the same height, the decent aftermarket option is the Sachs Super Touring (Eurocarparts). The originals were Boge/Sachs (same company) and the OE shocks on my daily driver Audi are Sachs - so they are a good, German make and cheaper than the equivalent Bilstein B4. I've put Super Touring on my 1.9 Z3 and been very happy with them - handling is fine.

When/if you replace the oil filter body gasket - ensure you buy the whole kit which includes a little spring valve and o-ring - it only costs a few pounds. I had a chat with BMW and without actually saying there were " a batch" of faulty ones fitted - he recommended the kit. When I removed the old spring valve I noticed it had no o-ring - strange that :roll: :D
Cheers, I am going to track the car and wouldn't mind something a bit stiffer than normal. Though the main use will be on the road so I don't want anything stupid.... I'll have a nose round the interweb..

Wookee
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  Z3 roadster 1.9i
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Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Thu 24 Dec, 2015 18:19

Southernboy wrote:The power steering reservoirs on these cars are known to "sweat". They are forever getting "oily". As you said originally, the car hasn't been loved, and the build-up of oil in various places has been allowed over a long period. You may just need a new oil ring seal on the PS reservoir screw on top and a good clean up.
Also, I have not seen or heard of a Z3 with a sump oil leak, so you may find the mess down there is originating higher up. :wink:
Thanks- I'll add it to my list which currently reads (in no particular order)

Sweaty Reservoir
Rocker cover cleanup and replacement gasket
Oil filter housing gasket replacement
Auxiliary belt replacement
Rear suspension mounts/shocks replacement
Dashboard and clock lights replacement-DONE
Sort the door panel clips out and obtain a door handle. Then fix it back on and get the mirror switch working
Sort the central locking on the driver's door out
Replace the bushes all round
Replace the third brakelight gasket
Replace the cracked sidelights
Replace the cracked O/S/R light cluster
Replace the two broken exhaust brackets
Replace the fuel filter
Replace dodgy battery
Repair passenger door mirror
Oil and filter
Diff oil replace
Ditto with the gearbox
New rear window
Fit a USB socket
Fit hoops (budget permitting)
New stereo and speakers

My Beetle sold last Saturday so I have some funds :D , though most of the above is relatively cheap. Plus I can drive it while I'm getting all of this sorted

Wookee
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  Z3 roadster 1.9i
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Am I missing Something?

Post by Wookee » Tue 29 Dec, 2015 15:00

I mean literally.... :?: After driving to and from work last night with no dashboard lights and some speed cameras to drive past I decided to sort them out today. While I had the pod out i couldn't help but notice a fair few of the other bulbs are not present. Is this normal for my model? I appreciate these pods go in many different models with a variety of gizmos fitted so it might be ok. Anyone know?

ImageIMG_2520

ImageIMG_2522

ImageIMG_2523

ImageIMG_2524

Wookee
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Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Tue 29 Dec, 2015 15:02

On the same theme.... What goes in these gaps please?

ImageIMG_2525

Wookee
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  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Tue 29 Dec, 2015 15:03

And finally for today- has anyone fitted a USB socket in any of these blanks? Is there wiring present behind them?

ImageIMG_2526

deni2s
Joined: Mon 25 Mar, 2013 22:02
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  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: Cinders

Post by deni2s » Tue 29 Dec, 2015 15:10

Wookee wrote:On the same theme.... What goes in these gaps please?

ImageIMG_2525

Blank covers. On early cars there were seats heater switches, some have switch here for electric soft top. In the middle there could be also hardtop rear window defroster switch.

deni2s
Joined: Mon 25 Mar, 2013 22:02
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  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: Cinders

Post by deni2s » Tue 29 Dec, 2015 15:14

Wookee wrote:And finally for today- has anyone fitted a USB socket in any of these blanks? Is there wiring present behind them?

ImageIMG_2526
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showt ... SB-Charger

And check this thread too:
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showt ... sole-piece

deni2s
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  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: Cinders

Post by deni2s » Tue 29 Dec, 2015 15:20

About the bulbs in the pod, that might be ok, that some are not present, but make sure that there are all the needed ones. Some clues you can find here:
http://www.diagnostic-world.com/pages/z ... 206208.cfm (z3 doesn't have roll bar protection system, so that bulb is not needed, and some are us specific there).

Wookee
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  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Tue 29 Dec, 2015 16:56

deni2s wrote:About the bulbs in the pod, that might be ok, that some are not present, but make sure that there are all the needed ones. Some clues you can find here:
http://www.diagnostic-world.com/pages/z ... 206208.cfm (z3 doesn't have roll bar protection system, so that bulb is not needed, and some are us specific there).
Thanks very much for the quick responses, I'll be having a closer look at the dash lights, but I think they are all present, I'll know for sure when the ship from China carrying my diagnostic stuff docks :)

There are certainly a few good options there for a hardwired USB port. At the moment I'm favouring using the two gaps in the rear console and running wires to a new head unit through the trim so that I don't have any wires by the gearstick. That way the power comes from the head unit too :D

deni2s
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Re: Cinders

Post by deni2s » Wed 30 Dec, 2015 09:01


Wookee
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  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Thu 31 Dec, 2015 14:54

So.... 21.1mpg is what Fuelly tells me I got for my first measured fuel fill up.....hmmmm.... :shock: :shock:

I'm guessing that Cinders needs that service as well as something else. Anyone have a suggestion as to what helps with fuel consumption? I have read that changing the Lambda sensors could be a start :rtm: ?

Unless 21.1mpg is normal for a 1.9l roller skate?? :lol:

Wookee
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Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Thu 31 Dec, 2015 15:03

This morning's discovery:-

ImageIMG_20151231_143649699

The water had been up to the tide mark shown and in all there was about 150ml in there (it was water and not petrol) either from the recent rain or when I washed it the other night. Is this normal? I can't see a drain hole inside and from the looks of things it wouldn't drain directly out anyway. Any suggestions?

deni2s
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  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: Cinders

Post by deni2s » Thu 31 Dec, 2015 16:54

Read the errors from ECU, that should give you a clue if your lambda sensors need to be changed and if there are other problems. I would highly recommend to get some OBD2 cable and OBD2 to 20pin connector. So you can use it together with your laptop and use INPA and other diagnostic and tuning software which is available on the internet, don't limit yourself with some standard OBD errors reader. You can try then to reset engine adaptations too.

Also mileage depends on your driving style, and if it's in the city traffic or on highway. I am not so sure about 1.9 (I have tuned 2.8 with ~24mpg and another one automatic which does less), but I think in city traffic that could be normal with small engine as you need more high revs to get the car rolling. After sorting errors (if any) you can try to do some chiptune to advance timing for taking advantage of higher octane fuel, that could also help with mileage.

There is small drain hole under the center of fuel cup, around 4mm from the bottom, you can try to feel it with your finger. It sometimes gets clogged, you need some hard wire to clean it.

Wookee
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  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Fri 01 Jan, 2016 15:54

Thank-you yet again deni2s.

I have half of the OBD equipment as recommended to me earlier in this thread. The connector is still on the slow boat from China :( so I'm limited to guesswork for the minute. I've got a K&N induction kit on its way too for fitting next week and I will get it chipped at some point, but I was just wondering what others with the same engine were getting. I have been driving it in a 'spirited' fashion though as I have a nice drive to work through some twisty roads with a bit of motorway thrown in. :D

With regards to the drain hole; is it in the rubber bit or on the metal?

Del
Joined: Sat 19 Nov, 2011 18:35
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Cinders

Post by Del » Fri 01 Jan, 2016 17:11

35 MPG should be a reasonable, average expectation for a 1.9 in a good state of tune - I've only found MPG a problem when stuck in heavy urban traffic I have the earlier 1.9 twin cam M44 engine which was not used after the facelift - BMW preferring to switch to the more modern emissions system on the single cam 1.9 M43TU. The 1.9 M43TU had a more sophisticated emissions control set-up with both pre and post cat lambda sensors, a more modern integrated MAF and air temperature sensor and an ECU emission system fault dash warning light. If you have a sensor performing outside of parameters I would expect this warning light to be lit on your instrument panel.

As suggested already I would interrogate the ECU to check if any fault codes are logged. If not, I would suspect that the bad spark plugs caused your low MPG calculation? Proactive renewal of the lambda sensors isn't generally adopted in the UK although in the US they do it between 50K and 100k miles depending on what the recommendation is, in the State in question. I proactively changed my single pre-cat lambda at around 85K miles and at a subsequent MOT the engineer did say that for an old car (1998) the combustion mixture was an almost perfect 14.7:1. It is claimed that they can get "lazy" with age/mileage and not switch as quickly as they did when new.

Wookee
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  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Sat 02 Jan, 2016 14:42

Thanks for the comprehensive reply Del, I don't think it was the poor spark plugs as they were changed pretty quickly and actually looked quite good when they came out. The misfire has gone but now that I am conscious of the mpg problem I have noticed a smell of fuel when idling at lights and when I park :( . There is no signs of fuel leaking underneath, though it could be a leak that evaporates, but I'm thinking more of an over-fuelling issue, which again is something I'll find out about when the postman delivers. I'll also be changing the fuel filter next week and I'll have a check along the lines for leaks.

I didn't get an MOT certificate or the emissions printout from the last MOT when I bought the car so I can't see what the emissions were at the test. Hopefully all wil be revealed when I can plug it in.

deni2s
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  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: Cinders

Post by deni2s » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 10:53

Drain hole is in rubber bit.

Regarding mileage - if you think you are running too rich, it might be lambdas but if lambdas are ok, that might be some leak on exhaust side before the lambdas. You get air in, lambda thinks you are running too lean and makes AFR richer.

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Robert T
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Re: Cinders

Post by Robert T » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 11:37

Fuel consumption figures vary immensely depending upon what kind of driving you do - my M44 gets down to 24 mpg doing just round town driving and up to about 35 mpg with a motorway run and I have had over 40 mpg with a nice clear 300 mile run on the motorway. You also need to do it on a few tanks to get a more accurate result as different fuel pumps will cut off at slightly different levels if you use the brimming the tank method. My average is only 29.3 mpg over the last 10k miles, but I do quite a lot of short journeys.

If we are considering extra air leaning out what the lambda probe is seeing, then it far more likely to be an air leak in the bellows after the MAF. Any air that gets in here is not being metered and so confuses the ECU. Exhaust gas is under pressure and is likely to exit through any hole in the exhaust system rather than suck fresh air in - that said, a leak before the lambda probe would cause less gas to go past it, thus giving a false reading and again confusing the ECU. You are likely to hear an exhaust blowing, but you wouldn't hear a leak on the intake with the bonnet closed (and often not even with your ear against the bellows!), so it is worth checking it over thoroughly.

Cheers R.
Arctic Silver '99 Z3 1.9 & Black '59 Frogeye 1275cc
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Lewy
Joined: Mon 22 Oct, 2012 18:34
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  Z3 roadster 2.8
Location: Wolverhampton

Re: Cinders

Post by Lewy » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 13:56

Congrats on the project, looks like it's going to keep you busy. I'm going through a similar tale with mine with comments such as 'did you recover it from the Titanic?' when the mechanic looked underneath!

Luckily (and hopefully this is the case with yours) it seems that parts bolted to the chassis will appear a little 'rustic' but the chassis itself should be pretty good. Best of luck with the project and I look forward to the updates.

http://www.realoem.com will be your friend for exploded diagrams and part numbers. Also gives you an idea (in $) of what you'd expect to pay for parts. :D
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Wookee
Joined: Thu 10 Dec, 2015 19:45
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  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 16:59

Robert T wrote:Fuel consumption figures vary immensely depending upon what kind of driving you do - my M44 gets down to 24 mpg doing just round town driving and up to about 35 mpg with a motorway run and I have had over 40 mpg with a nice clear 300 mile run on the motorway. You also need to do it on a few tanks to get a more accurate result as different fuel pumps will cut off at slightly different levels if you use the brimming the tank method. My average is only 29.3 mpg over the last 10k miles, but I do quite a lot of short journeys.

If we are considering extra air leaning out what the lambda probe is seeing, then it far more likely to be an air leak in the bellows after the MAF. Any air that gets in here is not being metered and so confuses the ECU. Exhaust gas is under pressure and is likely to exit through any hole in the exhaust system rather than suck fresh air in - that said, a leak before the lambda probe would cause less gas to go past it, thus giving a false reading and again confusing the ECU. You are likely to hear an exhaust blowing, but you wouldn't hear a leak on the intake with the bonnet closed (and often not even with your ear against the bellows!), so it is worth checking it over thoroughly.

Cheers R.

Funny you should mention that. I had my head under the bonnet a few minutes ago and then turned it on to hear some strange air-rushing noises that started then stopped then repeated. Off to search facility to look at bellows/MAF issues.... :rtm:

It's definitely over-fuelling as I think the smell at idle when stopping for traffic lights etc is a bit of a giveaway....that and the needle almost visibly moving! :shock:

Wookee
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  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 17:10

deni2s wrote:Drain hole is in rubber bit.

Regarding mileage - if you think you are running too rich, it might be lambdas but if lambdas are ok, that might be some leak on exhaust side before the lambdas. You get air in, lambda thinks you are running too lean and makes AFR richer.
Thanks. I've just finished a week of nights and now have a week off to sort a few problems on it and a mate is coming tomorrow to lend a hand.

Fortunately the China package arrived today and I have been messing about with the diagnostic kit. Unfortunately, I can't get it to work :( . The software that came with it wouldn't extract properly so I found a link on another site where I have downloaded the right files and it all looks good on the computer. Only trouble is that when I plug it in not a lot happens :head: . I think the issue might well be that it goes in via a USB socket and not the com1 port, although I selected this option during the download I suspect it doesn't like it. So Plan B is in swing now, where I have ordered a cheapy reader from ebay that I'll use initially to just read the codes. The good bit is that it comes with a com lead that hopefully I can use to attach to my laptop too.

Spanners are far simpler!

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Robert T
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Re: Cinders

Post by Robert T » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 17:35

COM1 is (or would be) the serial port, as used with older interfaces. The newer USB interfaces have driver software that essentially adds the interface as an emulated COM port. A bit of twiddling in the software and you should be able to get it to talk to the interface. The software that came with mine sets this up for you, and it is important that you have the right driver for the interface you are using. After that, remember that you need the ignition on before it will talk to the car.

Cheers R.
Arctic Silver '99 Z3 1.9 & Black '59 Frogeye 1275cc
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Wookee
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  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 15:51

Robert T wrote:COM1 is (or would be) the serial port, as used with older interfaces. The newer USB interfaces have driver software that essentially adds the interface as an emulated COM port. A bit of twiddling in the software and you should be able to get it to talk to the interface. The software that came with mine sets this up for you, and it is important that you have the right driver for the interface you are using. After that, remember that you need the ignition on before it will talk to the car.

Cheers R.
Well twiddle I did and got everything sorted then when plugged in to the car the red light comes on on the lead and the software tells me (in German) that my battery and ignition are on and it tells me it's running but that's it. I don't have the options I had with the other software of being able to select different cars. All I have is F1, F2 and F10.... :head: I'll wait for the cheapy to get here.

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Robert T
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Re: Cinders

Post by Robert T » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 18:06

Should look like the first picture in this thread, regardless of whether you are connected to the car or not: http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopi ... 18&t=35789

Cheers R.
Arctic Silver '99 Z3 1.9 & Black '59 Frogeye 1275cc
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Wookee
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  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 18:59

Robert T wrote:Should look like the first picture in this thread, regardless of whether you are connected to the car or not: http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopi ... 18&t=35789

Cheers R.
Yep, I saw that when I had the other software in. Unfortunately, all I have with this one is F1 and F2 and Shift F10 to exit. I have no idea why. I'm no computer numpty, but trying to get this up and running has been very difficult. It might have something to do with the instructions being translated from Chinese and most of what I can see on the screen is in German!! :lol:

One theory I do have is that my lead has been 'bricked' as the laptop I'm using is connected to t'internet and I seem to have lost it off the COM port list. :rtm:

Wookee
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  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 19:24

In better news, I did get a fair bit done today- difficult jobs first- with the oil filter housing gasket and spring changed, rocker cover gasket, engine belt changed and an oil and filter change despite the rain. I found a good use for the high rise bonnet :lol:

ImageIMG_20160105_115710127_HDR

As you can see the engine belt had seen better days :shock: which might have something to do with it's age. I'm guessing that the second photo showing 03 08 01 is the date the part was manufactured as it isn't the part number and it does say it's a BMW part, so I'm guessing that it came with the car from the factory :!:

ImageIMG_20160105_110644207

ImageIMG_20160105_164045997

I don't know how many engine configurations BMW made, but mine didn't look like the Bentley manual nor the one on the Pelicanparts tutorials. I had to move the alternator housing and water pump out of the way for the OFH removal and I didn't have to touch the spark plugs to remove the rocker cover.

Just as I'd put everything back together and was starting it the delivery man arrived with my K&N filter....DOH!

Tomorrow, I'll do the bits underneath- fuel filter (I'm going for the original being there too), exhaust bracket and rubber support, the K&N and the brakelight gasket. I also have a door handle arriving soon so might be able to put the door card back on too.

deni2s
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  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: Cinders

Post by deni2s » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 19:45

First of all, you need correct driver for your USB FTDI cable. Take version 2.10.00 from http://www.ftdichip.com/Drivers/D2XX.htm, don't take latest 2.12.00 - they have protection against non-genuine FT232RL chips. I wouldn't use software from cd which came with cable, usually it's very outdated.

Installation of INPA is also not an easy task, you might want to download one of the latest versions (i think 5.02 or newer is ok) and there are different installation instructions for each version of windows if I remember right and you need to follow instructions it's not very intuitive as with usual software.

It's not very easy to get it all working, but once you do that, you can use INPA, DIS, RomRaider for tuning and data logging or almost any other available software.

And another thing - I wouldn't recommend using K&N filter. I think stock filter is good enough, most probably you will not gain anything in power from K&N, maybe some cool noise, but those high flow filters are not so good for the engine because they don't filter air good enough and you have a chance to mess your MAF with filter oil. (And I have Simota carbon fiber cold air intake on one of my z3, sounds awesome on my m52b28 with alpina intake manifold and more agressive s52 cams, on other car I am leaving stock filter.)

Wookee
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  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 19:56

Investigating the possible air leak revealed this

ImageIMG_20160105_143628854

No air could be heard coming from here until pressed upon when the vacuum was affected and the engine ran rough. As these aren't the symptoms I've had then it can't be this, though I will change them. Then I thought I had traced the problem to the secondary air pump which is noisy on start up but then disappears. After :rtm: and Google it seems this is what it's supposed to do. It was idling for a bit and there was no smell of petrol, but then I have been getting that after driving it and then idling. I had the air pipe off and although damaged the bellows weren't leaking and I couldn't find any other damaged hoses.

With the rocker gasket oil leak I had some good news and bad news. The good is that the chain looks in good nick, probably because it's been changed or the tensioner has. The bad news is that when the timing chain cover was put back on they didn't make sure it was flush, so it sits a couple of mm's higher that the rest of the engine :head: . Until I get round to sorting that out I will expect a bit of leakage there, but at least I'll know why.

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  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: Cinders

Post by gookah » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 23:53

Wookee wrote:The bad news is that when the timing chain cover was put back on they didn't make sure it was flush, so it sits a couple of mm's higher that the rest of the engine :head: . Until I get round to sorting that out I will expect a bit of leakage there, but at least I'll know why.

I had this problem with my wife's after the mobile mechanic had changed the head gasket.
You have to undo the cam cover bolts, tighten the rocker cover down without the gasket, then tighten the cam cover bolts which lines everything back up.
then you refit the rocker gasket.
He didn't do that :head:
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Z3 1.9 Sport Progress Journal (Wifey's)

I have an element of 'M-styling' on my car, If that's a good enough reason for the manufacturers to adorn a 320 with the M badge, then its certainly a good enough reason for me..

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