Cinders

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Wookee
Joined: Thu 10 Dec, 2015 19:45
Posts: 166

  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Thu 07 Jan, 2016 07:34

deni2s wrote:First of all, you need correct driver for your USB FTDI cable. Take version 2.10.00 from http://www.ftdichip.com/Drivers/D2XX.htm, don't take latest 2.12.00 - they have protection against non-genuine FT232RL chips. I wouldn't use software from cd which came with cable, usually it's very outdated.

Installation of INPA is also not an easy task, you might want to download one of the latest versions (i think 5.02 or newer is ok) and there are different installation instructions for each version of windows if I remember right and you need to follow instructions it's not very intuitive as with usual software.

It's not very easy to get it all working, but once you do that, you can use INPA, DIS, RomRaider for tuning and data logging or almost any other available software.
I've sorted out the FTDI driver and wiped all the INPA stuff from the disk and went back to look for the software that I originally downloaded....and the link has gone!! :head: So now I have a working cable and no software....sigh...

Wookee
Joined: Thu 10 Dec, 2015 19:45
Posts: 166

  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Thu 07 Jan, 2016 07:39

gookah wrote: I had this problem with my wife's after the mobile mechanic had changed the head gasket.
You have to undo the cam cover bolts, tighten the rocker cover down without the gasket, then tighten the cam cover bolts which lines everything back up.
then you refit the rocker gasket.
He didn't do that :head:
Thanks for the tip, next time I'm working in the engine I'll sort that out. :cheers

deni2s
Joined: Mon 25 Mar, 2013 22:02
Posts: 747

  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: Cinders

Post by deni2s » Fri 08 Jan, 2016 08:42

Wookee wrote: I've sorted out the FTDI driver and wiped all the INPA stuff from the disk and went back to look for the software that I originally downloaded....and the link has gone!! :head: So now I have a working cable and no software....sigh...
Try this:
LINK REMOVED

Mod Edit: This link has been removed as it links to a know warez site. Please do not post links to such sites. R.

Wookee
Joined: Thu 10 Dec, 2015 19:45
Posts: 166

  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Fri 08 Jan, 2016 20:06

deni2s wrote:
Wookee wrote: I've sorted out the FTDI driver and wiped all the INPA stuff from the disk and went back to look for the software that I originally downloaded....and the link has gone!! :head: So now I have a working cable and no software....sigh...
Try this:
LINK REMOVED
:cheers I'll give it a run later.

Wookee
Joined: Thu 10 Dec, 2015 19:45
Posts: 166

  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Fri 08 Jan, 2016 20:31

So. for today's fun and games I've been emptying the car of water! :lol: Well, the boot to be more specific-

Thought I'd start my investigation with the battery well....this is the solution the previous owner came up with :shock:

ImageIMG_20160108_134520714

As you can see it didn't work too well. Speaking of not working too well, this is a tilt sensor that has seen better days :roll:

ImageIMG_20160108_143512243

Bearing in mind I don't have the leaky third brake light I had a search on here and have replaced both antenna grommets and given some attention to the seal at the base of my hood. It wasn't pushed in tightly and there is some evidence of sealant being used previously. So I dried most things out and pushed the seal in firmly, with rain forecast for tomorrow it won't be long before I know if it has worked.

Can someone identify what this is please? it was loose behind my battery and the other end goes out under the plastic tray on the driver's side of the boot.

ImageIMG_20160108_141930296

Wookee
Joined: Thu 10 Dec, 2015 19:45
Posts: 166

  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Fri 08 Jan, 2016 20:40

Attention turned to the flood inside the cabin area. The door card on my driver's door isn't currently fitted (I need to sort out the central locking and source a door handle before I put it back) and I get lots of water splashes on the seat, which I think I'm right in saying wouldn't happen with the door card on? :shrug

This sellotape fix wasn't doing a great amount to keep the water out :roll:

ImageIMG_20160108_141350778_HDR

So I replaced it with some roofing tape fixed both inside and out.

ImageIMG_20160108_162051839

This is only as I'm trying to discount sources of water leaks. I won't bother with a new window as I'll probably get a new hood at some point.

Wookee
Joined: Thu 10 Dec, 2015 19:45
Posts: 166

  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Fri 08 Jan, 2016 20:53

And finally to today's interesting discovery.... I have an ASC button, but it is very evident I don't have any form of traction control :devil: would this be correct? I've stuck my VIN into the link and it doesn't mention ASC, but why would I have the button?? I don't know if everyone else on the roundabout was as concerned as I was at going in three different directions quite unexpectedly! :shock:

I then checked what comes on when my ignition comes on and I don't have the traction control symbol, but nor do I have the ABS light come on and I definitely have an ABS unit under the bonnet. Looking at the picture of the back of my dashpod I posted earlier in the thread it would seem like the ABS bulb is missing....hmmmm.... I didn't have the right conditions to test it today (plus I need to get home to change my underpants :lol: )

Has anyone got info, or preferably a photo, of what the ASC unit looks like and where it should be on an M43 please? Ta

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Robert T
Site Admin
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Posts: 10004

  Z3 roadster 1.9
Location: Cheshire

Re: Cinders

Post by Robert T » Fri 08 Jan, 2016 23:02

Wookee wrote:Can someone identify what this is please? it was loose behind my battery and the other end goes out under the plastic tray on the driver's side of the boot.

Image
Hydrogen vent pipe for the battery. The original BMW batteries had a hold into which the connector fits. It looks like this when fitted:

Image

Regarding ASC, as far as I am aware all Z3's have either ASC or DSC. Cars with ASC and no LSD normally have ASC+T (the +T is the traction control).

ABS and ASC/DSC lights should illuminate at startup:

[youtube]BzD9XmKTVGA[/youtube]

I'm afraid I had to remove the link deni2s posted above. If you need it, please ask him to PM it to you.

Cheers R.
Arctic Silver '99 Z3 1.9 & Black '59 Frogeye 1275cc
Image

Wookee
Joined: Thu 10 Dec, 2015 19:45
Posts: 166

  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Sat 09 Jan, 2016 08:15

Robert T wrote:
Regarding ASC, as far as I am aware all Z3's have either ASC or DSC. Cars with ASC and no LSD normally have ASC+T (the +T is the traction control).

ABS and ASC/DSC lights should illuminate at startup:
That's what I would expect, but when I look at my spec, as below, it isn't shown is that right?

ImageIMG_20160109_081157031
ImageIMG_20160109_081121724

Brian4
Joined: Mon 19 Dec, 2011 19:02
Posts: 536

  Z3 roadster 3.0i
Location: Hinckley

Re: Cinders

Post by Brian4 » Sat 09 Jan, 2016 17:26

Hi Wookee regarding leaks from the door before you refit the door card you will also need to fit the membrane and make sure it is sealed all round. Our car leaked as the membrane wasn't sealed. I think the membrane should be a thin foam one but if you make one from heavy gauge plastic should have the same effect.
Brian
3.0I Topaz Blue


2000 E36/7 Z3 3.0i
2016 F31 335d
2015 F21 118i

Wookee
Joined: Thu 10 Dec, 2015 19:45
Posts: 166

  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Sat 09 Jan, 2016 17:51

Brian4 wrote:Hi Wookee regarding leaks from the door before you refit the door card you will also need to fit the membrane and make sure it is sealed all round. Our car leaked as the membrane wasn't sealed. I think the membrane should be a thin foam one but if you make one from heavy gauge plastic should have the same effect.
Thanks Brian, I have seen that on other threads and I do have a tatty membrane that I'll tidy up before putting back on.....just have to investigate my central locking issue first. :puzzle: . Re my question though, is water dripping down behind the card normal?

Brian4
Joined: Mon 19 Dec, 2011 19:02
Posts: 536

  Z3 roadster 3.0i
Location: Hinckley

Re: Cinders

Post by Brian4 » Sat 09 Jan, 2016 18:41

Mine does but whether it is because the rubber seal the window slides against is worn/old I'm not sure. Certainly on the wife's previous car water used to run out if the door drain holes when it rained heavily I guess that is why the doors have drains.
No leaks into our zed once the membrane was resealed.
Brian
3.0I Topaz Blue


2000 E36/7 Z3 3.0i
2016 F31 335d
2015 F21 118i

deni2s
Joined: Mon 25 Mar, 2013 22:02
Posts: 747

  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: Cinders

Post by deni2s » Sat 09 Jan, 2016 20:08

You checked common z3 leak source on a-pilars right? Water on the seats usually is from that.

You might have some bulbs burned out in your dashboard. And I think you can check for ABS and other modules through diagnostic cable with INPA.

According to the book BMW Z Cars ABS on 1.8 was optional. Didn't find info on ASC or whatever it's called. Maybe it wasn't optional in 2001? And I assume you have M43 with Bosh Motronic engine management system, not Siemens?

Wookee
Joined: Thu 10 Dec, 2015 19:45
Posts: 166

  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 11:14

I guess this answers the question about ASC being fitted!

ImageIMG_20160110_131748707

I'll have to wait until I can access the ECU to find out exactly what is going on there. :puzzle:

deni2s
Joined: Mon 25 Mar, 2013 22:02
Posts: 747

  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: Cinders

Post by deni2s » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 11:17

I think it's time to read the error codes.

Wookee
Joined: Thu 10 Dec, 2015 19:45
Posts: 166

  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 11:41

So, taking advantage of the off/on rain we've been having I thought I'd try and resolve the leaks.

I've replaced the grommets in the aerial, I've put some sealant in the third brakelight and pushed the seal between the hood and the body in firmly.

So yesterday when I checked after a rainy morning- the battery tray was dry but there was water lying by the tilt sensor :x This was resolved with a drill :wink:

There was water on the seat and as pointed out above this is probably from the A pillar, which I will sort out later this week.

This morning I now have water in the battery tray :head: . However, the underside of the wings and the boot that were usually extremely wet were just moist, probably from condensation. The main wet area was on the carpet in the dip towards the back of the seats. I had also pulled off the carpet on the parcel shelf yesterday and today this was largely dry, except for the area immediately behind the driver's seat.

The culprit for this is this tray, that was full yesterday and again today

ImageIMG_20160110_124836708

Two questions- Where does the water come from that this is supposed to catch? Is there a drain hole in it?

Most of the leak problems seem to be on the driver's side, and this is most likely what was damaged to cause the Cat C status. Looking at the bolts in the top of the rear wing you can see they re slightly out of line and has me wondering if this is the cause of any leakage?

ImageIMG_20160110_125746317

bertiejaffa
Joined: Fri 26 Jul, 2013 10:28
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  M roadster S50
Location: Manchester

Re: Cinders

Post by bertiejaffa » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 13:16

HI - great thread...

Re the 2nd air pump that goes quiet after start up, if I remember rightly these were fitted for the US market only for emissions purposes and not needed in the UK - they can be deleted -Gookah had a thread on it somewhere.

Regarding the leak in the boot have you removed all the carpet trim, including the rear wall trim (ie where the boot meets the back of the seats. I had a leak in my battery and tilt wells and it turned out to be water that was entering in between where the roof is bolted onto the car despite the seal being firmly in place - the water then ran down into the cabin under the cardboard carpet beneath the back window, however when you move that you will see a number of hole in the metal which then allow water to continue down behind the carpet in the boot and then into the battery well - with all the boot carpet removed you can see the water trails. The fix was to buy a load of butyl (£10 off ebay), unbolt the roof (16 bolts if I remember rightly) and replace the butyl where the roof meets the rear of the car and then re attach the roof.
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deni2s
Joined: Mon 25 Mar, 2013 22:02
Posts: 747

  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: Cinders

Post by deni2s » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 13:36

bertiejaffa wrote:Re the 2nd air pump that goes quiet after start up, if I remember rightly these were fitted for the US market only for emissions purposes and not needed in the UK - they can be deleted -Gookah had a thread on it somewhere.
I am also interested in this, I could remove secondary air pump on my us spec z3.
Found it: http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopi ... =5&t=35131

Wookee
Joined: Thu 10 Dec, 2015 19:45
Posts: 166

  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Tue 12 Jan, 2016 07:45

bertiejaffa wrote:HI - great thread...

Re the 2nd air pump that goes quiet after start up, if I remember rightly these were fitted for the US market only for emissions purposes and not needed in the UK - they can be deleted -Gookah had a thread on it somewhere.

Regarding the leak in the boot have you removed all the carpet trim, including the rear wall trim (ie where the boot meets the back of the seats. I had a leak in my battery and tilt wells and it turned out to be water that was entering in between where the roof is bolted onto the car despite the seal being firmly in place - the water then ran down into the cabin under the cardboard carpet beneath the back window, however when you move that you will see a number of hole in the metal which then allow water to continue down behind the carpet in the boot and then into the battery well - with all the boot carpet removed you can see the water trails. The fix was to buy a load of butyl (£10 off ebay), unbolt the roof (16 bolts if I remember rightly) and replace the butyl where the roof meets the rear of the car and then re attach the roof.
Thanks very much for two useful bits of info. I'll leave the pump alone for now, but will probably get rid of it at some point. I did have some sealant to put under the seal as that is going to be at least some of the problem, but I like your idea of replacing the tape and have ordered some. Do you have any idea what fills up the little triangle thing behind the shoulder of the seat? I can't see that being down to the roof seal?

bertiejaffa
Joined: Fri 26 Jul, 2013 10:28
Posts: 1725

  M roadster S50
Location: Manchester

Re: Cinders

Post by bertiejaffa » Tue 12 Jan, 2016 13:44

Wookee wrote: Do you have any idea what fills up the little triangle thing behind the shoulder of the seat? I can't see that being down to the roof seal?
Which one ? is it the picture about 3 posts up? If so I cant quite picture where that is in the car
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deni2s
Joined: Mon 25 Mar, 2013 22:02
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  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: Cinders

Post by deni2s » Tue 12 Jan, 2016 15:44

bertiejaffa wrote:
Wookee wrote: Do you have any idea what fills up the little triangle thing behind the shoulder of the seat? I can't see that being down to the roof seal?
Which one ? is it the picture about 3 posts up? If so I cant quite picture where that is in the car
My guess is in the area of hard top fittings? Bottom right corner in this photo:
Image

bertiejaffa
Joined: Fri 26 Jul, 2013 10:28
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  M roadster S50
Location: Manchester

Re: Cinders

Post by bertiejaffa » Tue 12 Jan, 2016 16:04

If thats the case, then normally the car will have some foam bits that merely fill up the hole - they dont stop water ingress. I know that there is a small plastic clip that fits over the end of the soft top near where the soft meets the door which sometimes snap or go missing (mine snapped)

Part 26 on here:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showpar ... Id=54_0194

Not sure if that would allow water to enter though if it was missing?
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deni2s
Joined: Mon 25 Mar, 2013 22:02
Posts: 747

  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: Cinders

Post by deni2s » Tue 12 Jan, 2016 16:21

bertiejaffa wrote:Not sure if that would allow water to enter though if it was missing?
Not so sure about it. I had it missing on one car for years and boot lid was always dry. Now I have one missing on the other car, will try to check now (I have hardtop fitted no sure if I will get there).

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Robert T
Site Admin
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  Z3 roadster 1.9
Location: Cheshire

Re: Cinders

Post by Robert T » Tue 12 Jan, 2016 18:11

Is it not the drain for the softtop? There are drains on the B-pillars, so water from the rear of the roof runs down to the rubber seal, then forwards to the drains. This is why parking with the nose higher than the tail causes water to soak through the roof. I've not looked closely at mine, but there should be some kind of drain that comes out of the bottom of the car - perhaps this is blocked?

Cheers R.
Arctic Silver '99 Z3 1.9 & Black '59 Frogeye 1275cc
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Wookee
Joined: Thu 10 Dec, 2015 19:45
Posts: 166

  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Tue 12 Jan, 2016 18:15

bertiejaffa wrote:If thats the case, then normally the car will have some foam bits that merely fill up the hole - they dont stop water ingress. I know that there is a small plastic clip that fits over the end of the soft top near where the soft meets the door which sometimes snap or go missing (mine snapped)

Part 26 on here:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showpar ... Id=54_0194

Not sure if that would allow water to enter though if it was missing?
It is that bit in the corner of the photo. It actually looks like some sort of overflow affair, but now I look at it in that photo it does look like something for the hard top. My clip on that side did snap when I moved it as it wasn't covering the gap properly. I glued it back together, but I suspect it may be permanently cured with the butyl treatment.

Wookee
Joined: Thu 10 Dec, 2015 19:45
Posts: 166

  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Tue 12 Jan, 2016 18:17

Robert T wrote:Is it not the drain for the softtop? There are drains on the B-pillars, so water from the rear of the roof runs down to the rubber seal, then forwards to the drains. This is why parking with the nose higher than the tail causes water to soak through the roof. I've not looked closely at mine, but there should be some kind of drain that comes out of the bottom of the car - perhaps this is blocked?

Cheers R.
And again this makes sense too... in which case there must be some sort of hole in it to drain away the water. I can't see in it so I wondered if anyone can shed light on where it would be?

deni2s
Joined: Mon 25 Mar, 2013 22:02
Posts: 747

  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: Cinders

Post by deni2s » Tue 12 Jan, 2016 20:35

Tried to check what happens on my car, but with hardtop installed there is nothing visible at all. And it's winter and snow outside, so sorry. Try to ask at bimmerforums.com, there is a lot of knowledge around :)

Wookee
Joined: Thu 10 Dec, 2015 19:45
Posts: 166

  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Tue 12 Jan, 2016 21:03

deni2s wrote:Tried to check what happens on my car, but with hardtop installed there is nothing visible at all. And it's winter and snow outside, so sorry. Try to ask at bimmerforums.com, there is a lot of knowledge around :)
I've had a read on Bimmerforums and opinion seems divided on the cause of water in the boot, with these boxes mentioned (although I'm not sure that's in relation to a Z3) along with a test. As the nearside one is dry I will poor some boiling water into it and see if it drains out. If so then I definitely have a blocked drain in the offside one. If it just pools in there then there are no drainholes and I'll have to try something else.

Wookee
Joined: Thu 10 Dec, 2015 19:45
Posts: 166

  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Wed 13 Jan, 2016 12:59

After some extensive Googling and reading it seems that there are 4 possibilities for water in the boot/battery tray:-

1- Running down the inside of a damaged window onto the parcel shelf carpet and seeping through to the boot.
2- The seal between the body and the base of the roof not being fitted correctly and water seeping through.
3- Third brakelight gasket being knackered (pre-facelift only as later ones have a different brakelight).
4- The roof gutter at one or both B-pillars getting blocked and overflowing onto the parcel shelf and into the boot.

Having a facelift model I only had (have) numbers 1,2 and 4. :lol:

1. can be resolved by fixing the damage to the window or replacing it. I've covered the hole in mine with some heavy duty roof flashing (which will probably get changed for something see through) and today I have put some sealant under the fabric over the zip at the top of the window as this is worn too.

2. I have pushed mine down tightly and it seems to be holding ok at the minute, though I plan to do the more permanent repair of unbolting the seal and putting some butyl tape in the gap then re-bolting it together.

3. I took my gasket back for :lol: a refund

4. I can now confirm that this picture is of a roof gutter 8-)

ImageIMG_20160110_124836708

You can see the positioning of it in an above post where the whole of the interior is shown. It is basically by your shoulder as you sit in the seat. It's quite hard to see and get to, but if there is water sitting in it you have a blocked drain. To further complicate matters, you can't see the drain hole! It is hidden by the trim around the B pillar and you will need a piece of firm wire with about half an inch at the end bent into a right angle so you can go fishing to clear the blockage. The water will drain out under the door/pillar. If it is blocked the water flows over the back, onto the parcel shelf and then into the boot. This was the main source of my problem as the shelf was soaked by the blocked one and bone dry by the other one.

In a double whammy, mine was blocked with the bolt that should have been fixing the seal to the body. The reason for that hole shown at the bottom of the photo is to access the bolt. Clearly someone had tried to put it in, dropped it into the gutter and left it there :head:

Should be some overnight rain tonight so I'll be able to see if everything works :shrug

bertiejaffa
Joined: Fri 26 Jul, 2013 10:28
Posts: 1725

  M roadster S50
Location: Manchester

Re: Cinders

Post by bertiejaffa » Wed 13 Jan, 2016 13:55

Glad you seem to be making inroads into solving the problem.

One thing to consider now though is the cabin carpet under the seats... if you have had the parcel shelf carpet up you will have seen the holes in the metal skeleton which are the reasons why some water trails can enter the cabin via the soft top, but travel into the boot. However, not all water takes this course and a lot of it will travel down the inside of the metal skeleton, behind the carpet behind the seats and will puddle under the seats..

...AND BELIEVE ME THIS CAN BE A LOT.

Basically the sound proofing of these cars is immense - this means that while your carpet feels bone dry to touch on the surface, if you remove the seats and feel under the carpet join (under the seat) there is likely to be a large puddle and a lot of very wet sound damping foam.

Sorry to be the bring of bad news :bawl: :roll:
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deni2s
Joined: Mon 25 Mar, 2013 22:02
Posts: 747

  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: Cinders

Post by deni2s » Wed 13 Jan, 2016 22:07

+1 about the puddle under the carpet. The material here is like sponge, I think you will want to remove the seats on hot summer weekend and let it dry for a few days.

Wookee
Joined: Thu 10 Dec, 2015 19:45
Posts: 166

  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Thu 14 Jan, 2016 12:35

Thanks for the words of warning guys. I had considered this and will be taking the seats out at some point to refurb them and will dry things out more then. Hopefully, if I can actually stop the water getting in in the first place the drying process can start soon. I'm trying to dry the boot out first so I can make sure the leaks there have stopped. Fortunately we're having intermittent rain so it's ideal for checking and repairing. My butyl tape has arrived and I'll be tackling the seal problem this weekend.

For the front leak, I've been reading about the A pillar problem but am still a bit confused as to what leaks :puzzle: . The seal where the pins for the roof go in seems OK as it is very firm and needs a fair bit of pressure to shut. There are signs at both A pillar corners of previous leaking with the paint flaking away, but they have never been any signs of moisture currently.

Now, I have seen on the web that this bit is a cause for leaking

ImageIMG_20160113_121307988

As you can see this is split at the bottom where the screwdriver tip goes in. Is this where water gets in? The nearside doesn't leak and this bit isn't split.

I've also seen a Youtube video where an American has put sealant along the seal between the windscreen and rubber strip where the screwdriver tip is

ImageIMG_20160113_121333845

My window looks differently aligned when compared to the other one so that may need adjusting too, but I want to do one repair at a time. What do you reckon is the most likely cause?

bertiejaffa
Joined: Fri 26 Jul, 2013 10:28
Posts: 1725

  M roadster S50
Location: Manchester

Re: Cinders

Post by bertiejaffa » Thu 14 Jan, 2016 13:59

OK.. Firstly the little grommet bit - if there is a hole that goes all the way through then yes that will let water in. Basically water runs off the roof and onto the seal at the top of the windscreen - from there it travels sideways in the little ridge, behind that grommet bit, down the windscreen and then out the A pillar where the door hinges are, down the sill and onto the road... In the past I have checked this by pouring a jug of water onto the front of the roof with the door open and atcually watched the water follow the course - Its quite clever (or I am sad!)

http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopi ... =5&t=36095

For the seal around the windscreen - yes sealant will do it - or alternatively send a private message to spursfaninacoupe (Andy) on here - he breaks Z3's and will probably have a replacement seal that you can fit which will make a neater job
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deni2s
Joined: Mon 25 Mar, 2013 22:02
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  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: Cinders

Post by deni2s » Fri 15 Jan, 2016 13:27

Wookee wrote:There are signs at both A pillar corners of previous leaking with the paint flaking away, but they have never been any signs of moisture currently.
I think I know what are you talking about, I think the primary cause of paint flaking away (actually that is some vinyl tape on windscreen surround) is some bad engineering and not the leak. I had that thing flaking, got new surround and I see that it is still not perfect. Pic for reference:
Image
Wookee wrote: Now, I have seen on the web that this bit is a cause for leaking
https://flic.kr/p/CYMfdr
As you can see this is split at the bottom where the screwdriver tip goes in. Is this where water gets in? The nearside doesn't leak and this bit isn't split.
Yes this is it. If it's leaking something by it, it's a problem, even you don't see it by eye. Pull the drainage plug out, clean with some gummipfedge or some other rubber care product, clean the drainage which goes down by the side of windshield with some wire as far as you can (I used bass guitar string for cleaning - it's flexible enough and has small ball fitted on one side - to not to damage the rubber), put the plug back, make sure the small hole on the outside is not blocked by plug and use some black silicone to seal the top of the plug properly. Sealing it good is essential. I understand that smaller hole on the side (the hole where tie goes in in the pic bellow) should be left connected to the drainage (rubber plug bottom part goes by it, but still leaves some space there). Not sure in which direction water flows in the drainage and if there is some hole on the bottom of it to drain the water to the front of the door - that drainage is not straight at the bottom, don't damage it with wire when cleaning. Ok, bertiejaffa confirms the direction in previous comment.

Image

If that doesn't help, I would consider other options, but this is the first place to remedy and see what happens then. And it's tricky, because it's not easy to understand how it causes the leak and that this can be the cause of water leaking.

bertiejaffa
Joined: Fri 26 Jul, 2013 10:28
Posts: 1725

  M roadster S50
Location: Manchester

Re: Cinders

Post by bertiejaffa » Sat 16 Jan, 2016 03:35

Thanks Denis.

Seriously, in that last pic you can see the ridge that water follows across the windscreen. As long as that "plug" is fully sealed the water will run inside the seal at the side of the windscreen and down the body of the car where the hinges are and along the sill and out
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Wookee
Joined: Thu 10 Dec, 2015 19:45
Posts: 166

  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Sat 16 Jan, 2016 10:15

I'll sort this bit out today I think. We have no rain forecast for a few days so it'll give things a bit of a chance to dry out and hopefully the boot is cured now- though I haven't put the butyl tape on yet as I want to see if the gutter clearance has sorted it.

The flaky bits I was talking about aren't shown in your photo Denis. It is on the inside as shown below (I have it on both sides which is odd as the nearside doesn't leak so I'm thinking this is old damage :shrug )

ImageIMG_20160110_122906103_HDR

ImageIMG_20160110_114740198_HDR

deni2s
Joined: Mon 25 Mar, 2013 22:02
Posts: 747

  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: Cinders

Post by deni2s » Sat 16 Jan, 2016 22:26

Oh, I see. I have the same flaking on one of the cars I acquired recently and it had serious typical a-pilar leak problem (and puddle under the seats). Looks like oxidation.
I used some black touch-up paint as quick fix. (Garage queen is my other z3.) I know a lady who used nails lacquer instead of touch-up paint - more accessible and cheap - just an idea.

Wookee
Joined: Thu 10 Dec, 2015 19:45
Posts: 166

  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Fri 22 Jan, 2016 22:07

I do hate it when paid work gets in the way of tinkering.... :bad

Anyway, a dry and very cold week of 6am starts at work meant I'd drive to work (as opposed to motorbike) but unfortunately the battery on Cinders wasn't up to it so I had to buy a new one. I suppose spending it's life submersed in water doesn't help battery life!

I also got to the bottom of code reading and now have a variety of BMW programmes that can talk to my car. I used the V57 version of software first and it showed that both my rear wheels have faulty ASC sensors and the ASC button doesn't work (not that I needed software to tell me this :lol: ). It also said I had misfires on both cylinder 1 and 2, but these have been sorted now as the engine runs sweetly.

I repaired the hole in the seal above the A-pillar and there wasn't any water in the car after today's rain, and the boot was very dry too. The parcelshelf was a bit wet from the heavy condensation on the inside of the rear window. Not really sure how top solve that one :shrug

Hopefully this weekend I'll get a few things sorted out.

Wookee
Joined: Thu 10 Dec, 2015 19:45
Posts: 166

  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Sat 23 Jan, 2016 17:26

So, today it was time to sort out the rear wheel speed sensors, after I gave the roof a clean. I used the Milton fluid trick to clean off the algae and then baby bath to give it a gentle clean., It has come up very well and is ready for a waterproofing coat to try and help my damp issues, but I'll have to wait for a dry spell before doing that.

Anyway, I had read about how to get the speed sensors out but, having seen the underside of my car when I first got it I wasn't expecting a smooth ride. :nono

Just as well!

This is how the nearside one came out :bawl:
ImageIMG_20160123_162154375

Obviously being in for 15 years and being surrounded by corrosion isn't going to encourage an easy out :( I spent some considerable time digging the rest of it out and can now see the exciter ring but I haven't found a magnet yet so I don't know where that has gone. I've soaked the offside one in plusgas, but I can't see that coming out easily either.

Then, in the general spirit of finding at least one other job while completing another I found this ARB drop link bush has seen better days too.....sigh...

ImageIMG_20160123_131857105

bertiejaffa
Joined: Fri 26 Jul, 2013 10:28
Posts: 1725

  M roadster S50
Location: Manchester

Re: Cinders

Post by bertiejaffa » Sun 24 Jan, 2016 01:07

I love your devotion to this car.. its beyond sensible and reflects so many of us in what we try and do. Don't forget, the best waterproofing is the simple stuff - tent water proofing spray - buy a big tin of it - £10 and use the lot (even though half a tin will suffice - its only a tenner) .... the rain will bead away for a year at least !
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Wookee
Joined: Thu 10 Dec, 2015 19:45
Posts: 166

  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Sun 24 Jan, 2016 19:07

bertiejaffa wrote:I love your devotion to this car.. its beyond sensible and reflects so many of us in what we try and do. Don't forget, the best waterproofing is the simple stuff - tent water proofing spray - buy a big tin of it - £10 and use the lot (even though half a tin will suffice - its only a tenner) .... the rain will bead away for a year at least !
"Beyond sensible" really made me chuckle :lol:

Having project cars has been my hobby since retiring from sports playing so I'm more than happy to while away my time getting Cinders ready for the road/track days. I got the car for a very, very cheap price and I know what HPI say it's worth. This difference just happens to be the same as the profit I made from selling my previous project so that is the budget I'm going to try and stick to for now. Until a few minutes ago the most expensive thing I had paid out for was to replace the two illegal front tyres and get the alignment checked.

My immediate plans are to get the car handling right, not leaking and sorting out any other running problems. To that end I have just ordered new shocks and top mounts along with the rear ARB drop links the wheel speed sensors and some rear pads. I'm hoping this will sort my skittish rear end. If that happens and my ABS works then that will be the rear sorted. :D . I've gone for OEM parts for now as I have to have a starting point before trying any improvements. A fair bit of this has been paid for with the sale of some car bits on eBay. :cheers

With the roof- I did consider a replacement but this would blow the budget and I don't think it is required. I've got the tent waterproofer on the way and after quite heavy rain last night the only bit that leaked is a little by the offside door, which I reckon will be solved with a window adjustment.Then I have to find a better solution for repairing my damaged rear window :puzzle:

I spent this afternoon removing the other speed sensor, which was much easier now knowing which bit to hit with my hammer. Then I loosened all the bolts that I'll need to get out to replace my suspension bits. Oddly, the bolt that holds the ARB links on is supposed to be 13mm, but my 13mm socket kept slipping and a 12mm was too small. The old Imperial half inch one I have fitted perfectly....on a German car?!? :shock: Very odd.

Wookee
Joined: Thu 10 Dec, 2015 19:45
Posts: 166

  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Sun 24 Jan, 2016 19:15

In today's chuckle moment I thought I'd drop the spare wheel cradle to have a look at the spare and see if it needed replacing. First thing I noticed was what an ingenious system Mr BMW has come up with and it was still working well even though the cradle was very rusty.

This is (was) my spare wheel (apologies for the blurry picture...I was probably shaking with laughter :lol: )

ImageIMG_20160124_190422825

The back is completely rusty and the stud holes are pretty thin so would probably just collapse under any sort of load. The tyre has never been used so it's obviously yet another victim of neglect. Still, my Uncle Tone knows where he can get me a free replacement :thumb:

PS If I ever mention my Uncle Tony he is the man who knows exactly which bit to hit with a hammer as he likes that sort of thing..... so I try to get his advice on the phone mainly :lol:

deni2s
Joined: Mon 25 Mar, 2013 22:02
Posts: 747

  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: Cinders

Post by deni2s » Mon 25 Jan, 2016 10:39

Wookee wrote:The parcelshelf was a bit wet from the heavy condensation on the inside of the rear window. Not really sure how top solve that one :shrug
Probably you need to dry the floor under the seats to get rid of heavy condensation.

deni2s
Joined: Mon 25 Mar, 2013 22:02
Posts: 747

  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: Cinders

Post by deni2s » Mon 25 Jan, 2016 10:43

Wookee wrote:I'm hoping this will sort my skittish rear end. If that happens and my ABS works then that will be the rear sorted. :D . I've gone for OEM parts for now as I have to have a starting point before trying any improvements. A fair bit of this has been paid for with the sale of some car bits on eBay. :cheers
In your place I would use poly bushes (powerflex). I know a guy who practically made new z3 with new OEM parts, spent a fortune on that, and in the end he said that even new z3 drives like **** because of that skittish rear end. So he ended with upgrading to poly bushes, randy forbes reinforcement kit and after market suspension.

deni2s
Joined: Mon 25 Mar, 2013 22:02
Posts: 747

  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: Cinders

Post by deni2s » Mon 25 Jan, 2016 10:49

Wookee wrote:In today's chuckle moment I thought I'd drop the spare wheel cradle to have a look at the spare and see if it needed replacing. First thing I noticed was what an ingenious system Mr BMW has come up with and it was still working well even though the cradle was very rusty.

This is (was) my spare wheel (apologies for the blurry picture...I was probably shaking with laughter :lol: )

Image

The back is completely rusty and the stud holes are pretty thin so would probably just collapse under any sort of load. The tyre has never been used so it's obviously yet another victim of neglect. Still, my Uncle Tone knows where he can get me a free replacement :thumb:
I think my spare wheel on yellow z3 is in even worse condition, but it still works :) Used in once in winter :)

Wookee
Joined: Thu 10 Dec, 2015 19:45
Posts: 166

  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Mon 25 Jan, 2016 12:44

deni2s wrote:
Wookee wrote:The parcelshelf was a bit wet from the heavy condensation on the inside of the rear window. Not really sure how top solve that one :shrug
Probably you need to dry the floor under the seats to get rid of heavy condensation.
I'm going to get the interior out a bit later in the year. For now I'm trying to stop the water getting in in the first place. I had bought a moisture collection pillow thing from Halfords that does some of the job and someone has PM'd me here to say that a tray of salt on the parcel shelf does the same job :thumb: ....so I have a couple on there now.

Wookee
Joined: Thu 10 Dec, 2015 19:45
Posts: 166

  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Mon 25 Jan, 2016 12:51

deni2s wrote:
Wookee wrote:I'm hoping this will sort my skittish rear end. If that happens and my ABS works then that will be the rear sorted. :D . I've gone for OEM parts for now as I have to have a starting point before trying any improvements. A fair bit of this has been paid for with the sale of some car bits on eBay. :cheers
In your place I would use poly bushes (powerflex). I know a guy who practically made new z3 with new OEM parts, spent a fortune on that, and in the end he said that even new z3 drives like **** because of that skittish rear end. So he ended with upgrading to poly bushes, randy forbes reinforcement kit and after market suspension.
I had been looking at Powerflex bushes, but couldn't find anything definitive saying they worked better than new OEM. Having said that I would have given them a go, but Powerflex don't list the drop link bush on their site. :shrug

deni2s
Joined: Mon 25 Mar, 2013 22:02
Posts: 747

  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: Cinders

Post by deni2s » Mon 25 Jan, 2016 15:15

"moisture collection pillow thing" - :D :D :D When I tried to remove water from leaked car's floor, I took out around 3-5 L just with sponge from one side (still waiting for summer to dry it out completely), that pillow thing will not help for sure :D

If you have an opportunity I would recommend you to remove the seats and push out water as much as possible from sound insulation under the floor (it soaks the water as sponge) and get it out with the sponge. You will not get it dry, but at least you will get out most of the water. There are wire harnesses under so removing water might help to avoid electrical problems.

Also check if plugs for 4 paint holes (35mm in diameter) on the floor are not rusted out (originally they are from different metal than floor, so there goes some bad chemical reaction), you might want to replace them with newer rubber plugs (#41007140847).

Maybe powerflex don't have droplink bushes, but I replaced all bushes I could with poly and I am very happy. Didn't replaced bushes on roll bars, but probably will do that too later. I have poly bushes for two years, no problems since. Car feels stiffer, maybe even a little bouncier than with rubber bushes. I think it's common conclusion on z3 forums, that replacing rubber bushes with poly is improvement. The only bush you should keep OEM is differential bush, poly bush may increase car vibration at idle. If I wouldn't want to keep the car in long term, I wouldn't switch to poly (oem parts are cheaper), but I plan to keep that car for long period of time, so I invested in poly bushes - they also last much longer.

Wookee
Joined: Thu 10 Dec, 2015 19:45
Posts: 166

  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Herts

Re: Cinders

Post by Wookee » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 11:57

deni2s wrote:"moisture collection pillow thing" - :D :D :D When I tried to remove water from leaked car's floor, I took out around 3-5 L just with sponge from one side (still waiting for summer to dry it out completely), that pillow thing will not help for sure :D

If you have an opportunity I would recommend you to remove the seats and push out water as much as possible from sound insulation under the floor (it soaks the water as sponge) and get it out with the sponge. You will not get it dry, but at least you will get out most of the water. There are wire harnesses under so removing water might help to avoid electrical problems.

Also check if plugs for 4 paint holes (35mm in diameter) on the floor are not rusted out (originally they are from different metal than floor, so there goes some bad chemical reaction), you might want to replace them with newer rubber plugs (#41007140847).
I have just wanted to stop the leaks for now before drying the car out properly and this morning things are looking good :) . Lots of wind and rain yesterday and everything looks to have stayed dry apart from a few spots on the seats that are in random places and I think were forced through gaps by the strong wind. Having said that, the car is currently raised at the rear on axle stands awaiting some new parts to be fitted, so I don't know if this affects things. The salt trays and pillow both did some work and there was almost no condensation on the windows, I'm not too sure how long it would take them to get 5 litres of water out though :puzzle: :D. The seats will come out soon as I want to clean them anyway and get at the speakers, so I'll bail out the car then :lol:

bertiejaffa
Joined: Fri 26 Jul, 2013 10:28
Posts: 1725

  M roadster S50
Location: Manchester

Re: Cinders

Post by bertiejaffa » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 12:42

Wookee wrote:the car is currently raised at the rear on axle stands awaiting some new parts to be fitted, so I don't know if this affects things.
In theory this would just make the direction of water travel go forward rather than backward into the boot - however as I mentioned before, water travelling into the boot (if it from the seal with the roof) does so by travelling under the parcel shelf carpet and through holes in the metal skeleton and into the boot - this action would not (in theory) be changed by lifting the backside up so if the boot carpet and wells are dry then I would suggest you have done a lot to eliminate the leaks so far. Obviously the only way to rule out anything in the cabin is to remove the carpets and then see what happens but as you say - thats gonna be a job for the summer.

Sounds like you are making progress though :D
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