Question regarding legality

[Mike]

Not a Zed issue but can anyone be definative on this because information is contradicory depending upon what forum you search.

A friend has UK registered UK plated mobility car.
He has lived a French resident for 10 years or so.
So he does the UK MOT and insurance using daughters address in UK.

He lives in France as resident. He has a SARL company so no doubt of residency.

He drives on UK plates in France. Is he legal. I think totally not. It is illegal for a French resident to drive a non french car in France.

He has just gone to UK to change his car to a new one under the mobility scheme. This may be a bad move as he will, to be legal, reregister the car in France. Mega cost under French reregistering rules. Get French CT and French insurance. We are looking at CT=50 euros, 20 percent of new car value say 4000 for registration, new headlights 400 euros, French insurance 500 euros. THEN after 3 years he will have to reverse the registration etc... to UK to return the car to mobility.

AND all the time he is driving totally illegal in France !!!!!

Anyone have any ideas?

[Alan W]

Move to England

[Davejue1]

I cannot help you with the french legalities but I used to be a sales manager for a car dealership dealing in Motab vehicles and I'm pretty certain that if they knew the car was 'living abroad' he would be removed from the Motab scheme.
They carry a very stringent set of rules and I'm sure your friend has breached them ten fold. If you are worried about your friend I would simply ring a uk dealership and ask to speak to a motability salesman and ask the question, can I have a motab vehicle and live abroad? I'm certain the answer will be no.
I'm sure Mike Fishwick will be along to tell you the french legalities soon.

Cheers
Dave

[billz]

Surely he is breaking the insurance rule for where he keeps the car parked. Which will mean his insurance will be void.

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[Davejue1]

Very true Bill, hadn't thought of that.

[Mike]

Update. I emailed the mobility car provider with the relvent questions regarding this matter to try and find out the rules. Got a nice email back stating data protection etc. and also saying they could not comment on such things. It was a simple question "can one have a motorbility car UK registered whilst being a resident in France?"
Not the answer I would expect from such a company.

[BladeRunner919]

I'd have thought that his biggest problem is that he's committing benefit fraud rather than whether his car's legal in France. He could find himself in a UK jail - at least that would remove any doubt over his place of residence.

[maurice the martian]

Im sat in my local ford dealership at the mo.just showed this thread to their mob expert.he recons the guy is committing fraud.and by registering it it his daughters she is also commiting an offence .
M

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[Davejue1]

That's all good and well Moz but last time I saw you I'm sure you were running a Z4! Or have you just swapped it in For a ford fiesta!
Joking apart I'm sure he's right.

Cheers
Dave

[maurice the martian]

We got a cmax 1.6 d for school runs .football.baths..park carrying cycles and all grandpatent duties lol.
etc.etc.

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[Davejue1]

Does the top to down??

[BladeRunner919]

Not a Zed issue but can anyone be definative on this because information is contradicory depending upon what forum you search.

A friend has UK registered UK plated mobility car.
He has lived a French resident for 10 years or so.
So he does the UK MOT and insurance using daughters address in UK.

He lives in France as resident. He has a SARL company so no doubt of residency.

He drives on UK plates in France. Is he legal. I think totally not. It is illegal for a French resident to drive a non french car in France.

He has just gone to UK to change his car to a new one under the mobility scheme. This may be a bad move as he will, to be legal, reregister the car in France. Mega cost under French reregistering rules. Get French CT and French insurance. We are looking at CT=50 euros, 20 percent of new car value say 4000 for registration, new headlights 400 euros, French insurance 500 euros. THEN after 3 years he will have to reverse the registration etc... to UK to return the car to mobility.

AND all the time he is driving totally illegal in France !!!!!

Anyone have any ideas?

In answer to the 'any ideas' I'd go with "stop committing benefit fraud and ripping off UK taxpayers". If you send me his details I'll happily shop him to the authorities.

[Mike]

There is no doubt this guy deserves mobility assisatance which happened when he lived in the UK. He had the mobility car then. When he moved to France I suspect he did not inform the mobility people giving his daughters address instead so as to take the car full time into France with him. He returns yearly for a week fo MOT etc......
Whether it is illegal to claim such disability benefit after becoming French resident is indeed very doubtful. He clearly could be in very deep water over this both in France and in the UK.

[6 pot roadster]

I'm with the other guy, can we shop him in to the authorities? Go on can we pleeeaseee

[BladeRunner919]

Whether it is illegal to claim such disability benefit after becoming French resident is indeed very doubtful.

I'd say there's actually very little doubt.

[Mike]

Done some research on the validity of his benefits regards motorbility. He has a disability from ages ago whan he lived in UK so is actually OK to have extended motorbility allowance from UK while living in France. The disability will not improve with time, he lost a leg!

Point is motorbility car is on a lease package registered at his sisters address not his real french address where the car habitually lives. Apparently he has an insurance extn to use in France all the time so he is covered by UK law. HOWEVER, as a french resident he cannot ... passenger. Im not sure motorbility extend to France such things. As such he is in default of complying with French driving law and therefore his insurance must be void accordingly.

comments please.

[6 pot roadster]

I double dare him to contact motorbility to check this is legal, why doesn't he claim in his adopted host country?

[Mike]

Well things have moved on. He wass stopped yesterday in a usual French roadstop for checks.
List of problems;
Driving licence photocard out of date and no paper backup required in france
No yellow vests
No first aid kit.
Dodgy taillight
As he gave his address as his french house they asked why driving un uk plates. He could not fake this as it was the village PC who stopped him
He was taken to the police station pending inquiries into his insurance viability. Released on bail later.
Having only got the car a week or so ago his UK tax disc has not arrived yet. DVLA shows it as OK and in post.

Bottom line is he is going to get his desserts shortly.

[Davejue1]

Blimey, that's a sudden turn of events! Is there a similar scheme in France he could maybe switch over to?

Cheers
Dave

[pingu]

Blimey, that's a sudden turn of events! Is there a similar scheme in France he could maybe switch over to?

Cheers
Dave

In the UK, an EU "foreigner" who is permanently resident (or intends to be) is entitled to anything they would be entitled to had they been British, born and bred. I imagine, but don't know, that it would be the same in France and any other EU country.

You are not allowed to carry the advantages of one system into another country (permanently) - which is what he has tried to do. You can do it, but only temporarily - for example, a "foreign" EU citizen can drive in the UK without VED, but after six months' residence, they must apply for VED.

He should have handed back his UK Mobility car and applied through the French system to see what he could get.

It's a shame that the local flics gave him a tug - they obviously can understand English. When I phoned them, all they said was "Parlez-vous Francais?"

[Mike]

Emailed the Motorbility people yesterday and recieved this note. Calling for some final clarification tomorrow.

Thank you for your email regarding your friends use of a Motability car whilst he is in France.
From the facts that you have given me I can confirm that your friend is not in fact eligible to continue receiving the Disability Living Allowance (DLA). This is the allowance that is used to pay for the Motability car. In order to qualify for this allowance he must be residing within the UK for at least 102 weeks out of 156. As he would not qualify for the DLA, he is therefore not eligible for a Motability car and we would ask that he return the car to us as soon as possible.
Due to his permanent residency in France the insurance policy on your friend’s car is also not valid. It would be likely that if he was involved in an accident then he would be personally liable for any damage caused. Driving without valid insurance could also result in criminal proceedings against him in the French courts.

No news re his latest pull by the Flicks.

[Davejue1]

Interesting Mike, I thought this would be the case, he needs to move quickly and get the car returned now otherwise other offences will start being dropped at his door. We are hoping to own a property in France in the future a with possible permanent move at a later stage if things to to plan. France is very well know for its stringent policies and I for one wouldn't want to fall foul!
The best thing he can do is to return his vehicle to the UK and buy a French registered car there and get on and enjoy living in such a lovely country.

Cheers
Dave

[Mike]

Davejue1,
I broke this news to him this afternoon and suggested all the obvious things to minimise damage. He is still insisting he is legal but the paperwork says otherwise.
I said I would help him find a french car and get the mobility car back to UK ASAP. Sad story really as France has its own schemes for such. Problem lies in hat after 10 years living here he still know not a word of french and refuses to learn it. I guess you get out of life what you put in at the end of the day.
Let me know when and where if you move over here.

[Mike]

Well the French have given him 10 points and are forcing him to change to a French licence so he can have them. In the French system you start with 12 points and penalties are subtracted until you reach 0. So he has 2 left. Interestingly the French police contacted mobility directly and funnily enough they want the car handed back immediately. I think a transporter will come and get it tomorrow. Mobility have transporters in France as quite a few have bumps and need repatriating. What mobility will do re 10 years of fraud we will wait to see. He is looking for a car now but is finding it difficult to hire a car with so many points. Needless to say he aint happy!!! Shame.

[luckycolourblue]

Crikey, glad none of my mates are as friendly helpful as you are!

[Mike]

Sorry luckycolourblue. I don't understand your comment. This guy is in a major problem if Mobility decide to check him out or if he has an accident.
As his friend, I did my homework and told him the real facts of his situation a long time ago. I even offered to help him get though it some months ago.
He decided as is his right to ignore the advice and the inevitable happened. I went to the gendames with him to try and sort it out amicably but to little avail. I have even spoken to Mobility on his behalf to try and minimise charges etc. This is what a friend does, so your comment 'glad I do not have a friend like you' is a bit odd. This guy is 69 and short of a few marbles, does not speak French, and to be honest does not understand what is going on.