Warning lights on after a service

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mich
Joined: Wed 16 Feb, 2005 05:53
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  Z3 roadster 3.0i
Location: King Country
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Warning lights on after a service

Post by mich » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 22:26

Please excuse my posting with reference to my E46 Coupe but I know some of you have other cars than Z3 or Z4.
I recently had an Eng oil, coolant and brake fluid service, On the way home the DSC and Hand Brake light came on briefly with an accompanied bleep then all was well for a couple of days but now getting warning lights coming on and off, I have borrowed a pic from another post to show which lights they are.[DSC and H Brake]
Resetting does not always work and when it does only for a short while.
The dealer says it could be due to an ABS/DSC hydraulic pump failure, an ABS/DSC control unit failure or both and they need the car returned and it is an expensive job, this is directly after they changed the brake fluid hmmmmmm. It could also be a wheel sensor.
Any suggestions as I am very suspicious that it should happen directly after the brake fluid change.


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Southernboy
Joined: Thu 07 Oct, 2010 13:39
Posts: 6312

  Z3 roadster 3.0i
Location: Johannesburg

Re: Warning lights on after a service

Post by Southernboy » Thu 29 Oct, 2015 06:15

First off check the sensors on all wheels which feed info to the ABS. I had similar query from a mate here and after checking the wheel / ABS sensors, it was found the right front was the problem. The serviceman who had done the service had not replaced the sensor wire correctly with the result the tyre had rubbed against the sensor wire and broken through it. It was also intermittent since the sensor wire in some positions would "reconnect" at the break. A replacement sensor sorted the problem. You can use a multi-meter to check the sensors. If you set the meter to OHMS, and place one terinal on each of the two wires at the socket where it connects into the system, it should register between 1.5 and 1.7... if it registers higher, or if it registers and keeps climbing to a silly number, the sensor is faulty.
Click the link to watch a short Youtube video..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eCJa7JZzfg
.......and if you really want to know in greater detail about ABS SENSOR / DIAGNOSIS as a DIY...... CLICK THIS LINK..... http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=341672
Although it's for an M3, it will be very similar for any BMW. The write up provides links where you can enter your vehicle details, and download the necessary info applicable to your car's ABS system in detail. It also describes how to check all the relevant points within the system to isolate the fault...and significantly one item on the list is a faulty brake light switch.
There-after, I would consider the brake bleeding at the service center may be at fault. If the bleed has not been done correctly or even carelessly and air has entered the system the ABS will register a fault. Check all 4 wheel calipers for any sign of fluid leakage - the serviceman may not have closed one or more bleed nipples 100% and it may be leaking under brake pressure. If that is the case, air will likely enter when the brake is released after use. A re-bleed of the system will be required to ensure it is 100%. Air getting into the ABS control module will / can cause it's demise to the point of requiring replacement, in which case it's an expensive part. As you have suggested, the fact that the fault has occurred directly after the "service" is cause for concern. I would wonder that the service center did not do a "test" run after the job which is thorough, If it were me, I would speak with the service manager and state my case for a poor service. The ABS Control module is pretty rugged, and in general will only fail if it any "servicing" hasn't been done correctly. Perhaps take a few minutes to google search for similar experiences with the same model BMW and read the comments made. It may give you some idea of what / where the issues may be and where they originate.
The hand brake light is mechanical, so that may be a poor handbrake adjustment issue, or the handbrake switch at the hand brake lever has been disturbed during the adjustment service. It's a simple little copper coated spring plate which is connected to it's power supply and is earthed by the raising of the brake lever, which in turn completes the circuit and will light the warning icon on the dash. If you remove the brake boot, you should be able to see the "switch" at the rear of the lever where it is hinged.
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Del
Joined: Sat 19 Nov, 2011 18:35
Posts: 2115

  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Warning lights on after a service

Post by Del » Thu 29 Oct, 2015 10:11

According to my Z3 owners manual (I would guess there are similarities with the E46) the warning light which is a circle with the two external "shoes" and exclamation mark in the middle = brake hydraulics/brake fluid problem.

As you say, the fact that these two lights have lit up immediately after a brake fluid service is extremely suspicious and my guess is that they "screwed up" during the fluid change. BMW dealerships in my area give what should be routine tasks to teenage apprentices and so any notion that one has a Master BMW Technician trained in Bavaria, is just fantasy. :D I would guess they have either left a leak by damaging or leaving loose a bleed screw or (more likely) that air has got into the ABS pump. :?

Personally, I would now have their service manager in a wrestling "head lock" giving him a verbal barrage. :D

Del
Joined: Sat 19 Nov, 2011 18:35
Posts: 2115

  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Warning lights on after a service

Post by Del » Thu 29 Oct, 2015 10:24

See attached for the Z3 warning lights

http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopi ... 18&t=35657

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mich
Joined: Wed 16 Feb, 2005 05:53
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  Z3 roadster 3.0i
Location: King Country
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Re: Warning lights on after a service

Post by mich » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 03:22

Thanks for your replies Del and Southernboy in the end I suppose it depends upon how honest the Service Manager is, just my word against his, it really would be too much of a coincidence to claim it was nothing to do with the service.
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mich
Joined: Wed 16 Feb, 2005 05:53
Posts: 807

  Z3 roadster 3.0i
Location: King Country
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Re: Warning lights on after a service

Post by mich » Tue 15 Dec, 2015 00:49

Phase 1.
Well in the end I took the car back to the dealers and it was the Brake master cylinder sensor at fault so NZ$977 later it was fixed, they would accept no responsibility and kept repeating “The sensors are sealed units and it was an internal fault so not our fault”
All the way to the dealers (200k plus) I was anxious as the warning lights were off (like going to the dentist) but about 500 metres short of the dealer they came on, I told the receptionist and he said not to worry as the on board computer keeps a log of every time the fault occurs.
So when they pull the codes a full record will be revealed and would show that it first occurred within 10k of leaving dealers after the brake service.
Now it may well be a sealed unit but would have a diaphragm to detect pressure changes and as the environment that the sensors are operating in has been changed something must have happened to trigger this fault.

Phase 2.
I decided to complain to the BMW head office in NZ and sent an email stating my concerns, after about 7 days or so it remained unanswered so I sent a letter but that also has remained unanswered. Going online I sought a way to contact BMW international http://www.bmw.com/com/en/ and complain but there are no contacts given sure you can ask for a test drive or build your own specs into a new car but they don’t seem to want any complaints. The nearest I could get was ‘contact your dealer’ I could see no future in that.
I will not name the dealer on this forum but if any NZ owners want to know send me a PM.
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BladeRunner919
Joined: Fri 17 Feb, 2012 20:18
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Warning lights on after a service

Post by BladeRunner919 » Tue 15 Dec, 2015 07:55

Complaining publicly on social media seems to be the quickest way to get a response these days - they don't like to be named and shamed. Take to Twitter and direct your complaints to BMW NZ's account.

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Gazza
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Re: Warning lights on after a service

Post by Gazza » Tue 15 Dec, 2015 17:51

Try these details

BMW Head Office
Address: AbteilungTM-K, 80788, Munich, Bavaria, Germany
Phone Number: 89-1250-16000
E-mail produktionsmeile@bmw.de
Gazza

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Robert T
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  Z3 roadster 1.9
Location: Cheshire

Re: Warning lights on after a service

Post by Robert T » Tue 15 Dec, 2015 20:18

It is also worth finding the name of someone to address a letter to rather than just hoping - CEO is a good start. :wink:

Cheers R.
Arctic Silver '99 Z3 1.9 & Black '59 Frogeye 1275cc
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