Needless ritual?

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Bonzo
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Needless ritual?

Post by Bonzo » Fri 18 Nov, 2016 00:01

In the mid 60's, when I was around 17, I used to watch and hand spanners to an old boy who used to de-coke and overhaul car engines. He told that when I got a car I must remember to do the following; After starting the engine do not rev it, then engage all of the gears in the gearbox twice before moving off. When driving off do not use excessive revs until the engine is up to temperature. Do not rev the engine when switching off. I know motor oils have improved no end since then, But I still carry out his instructions to this day, and I don't rev beyond 3000 r.p.m. until the temp. gauge has been at the mid point for 5 minutes.
What do you mechanical marvels out there think of all this? A needless ritual?

:cheers

Bonzo
Z3lda (Zelda), 1998 2.8, Montreal Blue, Beige Oregon leather interior and M steering wheel, Sports Seats, Wood trim, Chrome Line Interior, Centre armrest with Cupholder, Alpina Softline wheels, Chromed Angel Eyes, De- tango'd, Rear stone guards, Sport aerial, ASC front strut brace, Strong Strut Butt Strut and Body Brace, Uprated brake fluid, Yellowstuff pads 78k.

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pingu
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Re: Needless ritual?

Post by pingu » Fri 18 Nov, 2016 02:17

Some "rituals" do more harm than good. I don't think yours will do any harm.

I always warm the engine up slowly before giving it the beans. That's why I don't do the "dawn runs" and I like being at the back on cruises :wink: .

I don't see the point of engaging ALL the gears, but I always "squeeze" 2nd before engaging 1st when stationary, or giving it a good double-declutch if on the move.
Pingu

mrscalex
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Re: Needless ritual?

Post by mrscalex » Fri 18 Nov, 2016 07:25

Sounds very similar to my outlook. Don't know about engaging all the gears though.
ImageImage
1999 Z3 1.9 Boston Green (Dimitri) - My brother's car owned from new and restored by me
2001 Z3 2.2 Topaz Blue (Trudy) - My car rebuilt from a write-off
2002 Z3 2.2 Titan Silver (Okus) - Project car waiting for a new engine
2001 Z3 2.2 Topaz Blue (Debra) - Donor car/breaker
1998 Z3 1.9 Boston Green (Allsworth) - Donor car/breaker now gone to Z3 heaven
Always happy to try and help with spares :)

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motco
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Re: Needless ritual?

Post by motco » Fri 18 Nov, 2016 07:45

pingu wrote:Some "rituals" do more harm than good. I don't think yours will do any harm.

I always warm the engine up slowly before giving it the beans. That's why I don't do the "dawn runs" and I like being at the back on cruises :wink: .

I don't see the point of engaging ALL the gears, but I always "squeeze" 2nd before engaging 1st when stationary, or giving it a good double-declutch if on the move.
I agree about the gears thing - what could it possibly do? The 'squeeze' of 1st gear is a legacy of driving non-synchro first gears as fitted to all cars up until the late 1960s - much later for some. It used the synchro of second to stop the crash first gear clusters spinning. My Westfield has a crash reverse and it still pays to do the squeeze before engaging reverse. Warming up is a good idea of course, but as well as not revving, don't labour either.

gookah
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Re: Needless ritual?

Post by gookah » Fri 18 Nov, 2016 16:13

how many cars are on the road that do not do any of this at all, and they all seem to still be working fine...
I dont see a raft of breakdown vehicles with people being told "thats what you get for revving it when cold", and I rarely see or smell blue smoke nowadays either.
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I have an element of 'M-styling' on my car, If that's a good enough reason for the manufacturers to adorn a 320 with the M badge, then its certainly a good enough reason for me..

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motco
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Re: Needless ritual?

Post by motco » Fri 18 Nov, 2016 17:29

It's more to do with longevity than breakdowns.

gookah
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Re: Needless ritual?

Post by gookah » Fri 18 Nov, 2016 18:18

hence the blue smoke reference to worn out engines, and the comment they are 'still working fine' I should have said 'recovery' vehicles
Image

Z3 2.8 Progress Journal (Mine)
Z3 1.9 Sport Progress Journal (Wifey's)

I have an element of 'M-styling' on my car, If that's a good enough reason for the manufacturers to adorn a 320 with the M badge, then its certainly a good enough reason for me..

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pingu
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Re: Needless ritual?

Post by pingu » Fri 18 Nov, 2016 19:11

gookah wrote:how many cars are on the road that do not do any of this at all, and they all seem to still be working fine...
I think you are probably right.

Next time I use my jallopy, I think I'll jump in, fling the door open so it bounces off the stop and closes by itself, start it up, rev the balls off it, slam it into gear, drop the clutch, wheelspin off the kerb, hammer it to the end of the street and screech to a stop, then wrench the handbrake on so hard it clicks 15 times.

It doesn't seem to have done my neighbour's son's car much harm.

:D
Pingu

mrscalex
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Re: Needless ritual?

Post by mrscalex » Fri 18 Nov, 2016 19:50

pingu wrote:
I think you are probably right.

Next time I use my jallopy, I think I'll jump in, fling the door open so it bounces off the stop and closes by itself, start it up, rev the balls off it, slam it into gear, drop the clutch, wheelspin off the kerb, hammer it to the end of the street and screech to a stop, then wrench the handbrake on so hard it clicks 15 times.

It doesn't seem to have done my neighbour's son's car much harm.

:D
You've seen the way my brother drives his 1 Series then :lol:
ImageImage
1999 Z3 1.9 Boston Green (Dimitri) - My brother's car owned from new and restored by me
2001 Z3 2.2 Topaz Blue (Trudy) - My car rebuilt from a write-off
2002 Z3 2.2 Titan Silver (Okus) - Project car waiting for a new engine
2001 Z3 2.2 Topaz Blue (Debra) - Donor car/breaker
1998 Z3 1.9 Boston Green (Allsworth) - Donor car/breaker now gone to Z3 heaven
Always happy to try and help with spares :)

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lordhelpus
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Re: Needless ritual?

Post by lordhelpus » Fri 18 Nov, 2016 21:29

I think you are probably right.

Next time I use my jallopy, I think I'll jump in, fling the door open so it bounces off the stop and closes by itself, start it up, rev the balls off it, slam it into gear, drop the clutch, wheelspin off the kerb, hammer it to the end of the street and screech to a stop, then wrench the handbrake on so hard it clicks 15 times.

It doesn't seem to have done my neighbour's son's car much harm.

:D[/quote]

Pingu that's hilarious............ :lol: :lol: :lol: :bow
1997 2.8................ Montreal Blue

Bonzo
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Re: Needless ritual?

Post by Bonzo » Fri 18 Nov, 2016 23:41

Possibly the gear changing thing gave time for all that old thick oil to get all round the engine before pulling away?

:cheers
Z3lda (Zelda), 1998 2.8, Montreal Blue, Beige Oregon leather interior and M steering wheel, Sports Seats, Wood trim, Chrome Line Interior, Centre armrest with Cupholder, Alpina Softline wheels, Chromed Angel Eyes, De- tango'd, Rear stone guards, Sport aerial, ASC front strut brace, Strong Strut Butt Strut and Body Brace, Uprated brake fluid, Yellowstuff pads 78k.

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Robert T
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Re: Needless ritual?

Post by Robert T » Sat 19 Nov, 2016 09:35

Or perhaps not. The only place engine oil and gearbox oil come into contact with one another is the drain hole in the bottom of the bell-housing when they leak out of the back of the engine and front of the gearbox respectively. Yes, I know some cars share the oil, but that's a relatively modern innovation with transverse engines.

I don't even muck about selecting gears on the Sprite. Though it has a more modern Ford Type-9 gearbox on it which is much easier to use than the original.

Just keep the revs below about 3000 until the engine warms up. An oil temp gauge helps to know when everything is nicely warmed up, but unless you're going to rag the arse off it, the coolant temp gauge is sufficient.

Cheers R.

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motco
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Re: Needless ritual?

Post by motco » Sat 19 Nov, 2016 12:05

I suspect Bonzo meant the time taken to do the gear ritual allowed the engine oil to circulate a bit. My Dad used to spin his car engines over for a few seconds before switching on the ignition so that oil pressure could start to build. Can't be done since the ignition key operated the starter though.

The original Mini had shared engine and gearbox/transmission oil back in 1959.

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Robert T
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Re: Needless ritual?

Post by Robert T » Sat 19 Nov, 2016 12:11

Some people would call 1959 "modern".

My Sprite is largely based on engineering from an earlier age. If it hasn't run for a while it seems to take some effort to get fuel through the carb, so spinning the engine without ignition would probably also help with that. I have to turn the ignition on on mine as it has an electric fuel pump.

Cheers R.

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pingu
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Re: Needless ritual?

Post by pingu » Sat 19 Nov, 2016 13:18

Robert T wrote:Some people would call 1959 "modern". Image

My Sprite is largely based on engineering from an earlier age. If it hasn't run for a while it seems to take some effort to get fuel through the carb, so spinning the engine without ignition would probably also help with that. I have to turn the ignition on on mine as it has an electric fuel pump.

Cheers R.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
Do you have a decompression lever as well as advance/retard on the steering wheel :wink: :) ?

Seriously, to make things last as long as possible, cranking with ignition off would help a lot. 300-400 rpm with no oil pressure is safer than 900 rpm.
Pingu

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motco
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Re: Needless ritual?

Post by motco » Sat 19 Nov, 2016 14:57

Robert T wrote:Some people would call 1959 "modern". Image

My Sprite is largely based on engineering from an earlier age. If it hasn't run for a while it seems to take some effort to get fuel through the carb, so spinning the engine without ignition would probably also help with that. I have to turn the ignition on on mine as it has an electric fuel pump.

Cheers R.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
I once had a 1970 Midget and that was pretty antediluvian with it's crash first and reverse gears, Rotaflo dampers, dynamo charging, separate ignition/start functions. The front dampers used more oil than the engine! Bits fell off, literally, on occasions. I toured Scotland in it with a big so-called self-locking nut from the suspension missing unbeknown to me. However, I daresay a Frogeye is even cruder. I had forgotten the rallentando chatter of the fuel pump before you could start it.

Bonzo
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Location: Norfolk

Re: Needless ritual?

Post by Bonzo » Sat 19 Nov, 2016 18:04

Robert T wrote:Or perhaps not. The only place engine oil and gearbox oil come into contact with one another is the drain hole in the bottom of the bell-housing when they leak out of the back of the engine and front of the gearbox respectively. Yes, I know some cars share the oil, but that's a relatively modern innovation with transverse engines.

I don't even muck about selecting gears on the Sprite. Though it has a more modern Ford Type-9 gearbox on it which is much easier to use than the original.

Just keep the revs below about 3000 until the engine warms up. An oil temp gauge helps to know when everything is nicely warmed up, but unless you're going to rag the arse off it, the coolant temp gauge is sufficient.

Cheers R.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
I actually meant the engine oil to get round the engine!
Z3lda (Zelda), 1998 2.8, Montreal Blue, Beige Oregon leather interior and M steering wheel, Sports Seats, Wood trim, Chrome Line Interior, Centre armrest with Cupholder, Alpina Softline wheels, Chromed Angel Eyes, De- tango'd, Rear stone guards, Sport aerial, ASC front strut brace, Strong Strut Butt Strut and Body Brace, Uprated brake fluid, Yellowstuff pads 78k.

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Robert T
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Re: Needless ritual?

Post by Robert T » Sun 20 Nov, 2016 12:55

motco wrote:I once had a 1970 Midget and that was pretty antediluvian with it's crash first and reverse gears, Rotaflo dampers, dynamo charging, separate ignition/start functions. The front dampers used more oil than the engine! Bits fell off, literally, on occasions. I toured Scotland in it with a big so-called self-locking nut from the suspension missing unbeknown to me. However, I daresay a Frogeye is even cruder. I had forgotten the rallentando chatter of the fuel pump before you could start it.
I've never actually driven a standard Frogeye, but I should think it is pretty scary in traffic. Mine has quite a lot of concessions to modern living: 1275cc engine with a single Dellorto carb (no messing with trying to set up dual carbs), electronic ignition (no points to get damp), front disc brakes, 5 speed gearbox, Spax adjustable telescopic dampers on the rear, an ARB, halogen headlights, alternator, satnav, boot light. It retains the looks and character of the original, but handles like a go-kart, will take off from a standing start like poo off a spade, and can cruise at 70 on the motorway without breaking a sweat. It's even pretty comfortable on our bumpy roads, but for a few rattles you wouldn't get on a modern car. Best bit though, which you don't get with modern cars, is the noise. :D

Cheers R.
Arctic Silver '99 Z3 1.9 & Black '59 Frogeye 1275cc
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Wavesong
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Re: Needless ritual?

Post by Wavesong » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 12:52

pingu wrote:
gookah wrote:how many cars are on the road that do not do any of this at all, and they all seem to still be working fine...
I think you are probably right.

Next time I use my jallopy, I think I'll jump in, fling the door open so it bounces off the stop and closes by itself, start it up, rev the balls off it, slam it into gear, drop the clutch, wheelspin off the kerb, hammer it to the end of the street and screech to a stop, then wrench the handbrake on so hard it clicks 15 times.

It doesn't seem to have done my neighbour's son's car much harm.

:D
Isn't this how all youngsters drive today? They all seem devoid of any mechanical empathy. It is something of a miracle that today's cars will tolerate such abuse and they clearly haven't had to coax a 60's or 70's car to get them to work and back on a cold winters morning for an early shift. Thats progress for you.

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Robert T
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Re: Needless ritual?

Post by Robert T » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 16:21

Wavesong wrote:Isn't this how all youngsters drive today? They all seem devoid of any mechanical empathy. It is something of a miracle that today's cars will tolerate such abuse and they clearly haven't had to coax a 60's or 70's car to get them to work and back on a cold winters morning for an early shift. Thats progress for you.
Neighbour took me out in his Audi yesterday. It seems that they have replaced the accelerator with an on/off switch. :?

Cheers R.
Arctic Silver '99 Z3 1.9 & Black '59 Frogeye 1275cc
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motco
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Re: Needless ritual?

Post by motco » Mon 21 Nov, 2016 19:18

Robert T wrote:
Wavesong wrote:Isn't this how all youngsters drive today? They all seem devoid of any mechanical empathy. It is something of a miracle that today's cars will tolerate such abuse and they clearly haven't had to coax a 60's or 70's car to get them to work and back on a cold winters morning for an early shift. Thats progress for you.
Neighbour took me out in his Audi yesterday. It seems that they have replaced the accelerator with an on/off switch. :?

Cheers R.
Is he a Tokyo taxi driver in his spare time? :lol:

Del
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Re: Needless ritual?

Post by Del » Tue 22 Nov, 2016 10:55

Letting the engine get up to temperature is still recommended on highly tuned/modified engines, before working them to their limits. The M engines are probably closer to this category.

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Alfie
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Re: Needless ritual?

Post by Alfie » Tue 29 Nov, 2016 19:50

Oil temp in an ///M engine must reach 80deg before going past 3k rpm. It's the LAW...! :shock:

As I understand it, this is to make sure that the VANOS has a full supply of warmed oil before it gets a hammering.
That's why our S50s and S54s have oil temp gauges....

A.
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mrscalex
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Re: Needless ritual?

Post by mrscalex » Tue 29 Nov, 2016 23:03

Alfie wrote:Oil temp in an ///M engine must reach 80deg before going past 3k rpm. It's the LAW...! :shock:

As I understand it, this is to make sure that the VANOS has a full supply of warmed oil before it gets a hammering.
That's why our S50s and S54s have oil temp gauges....

A.
I think that's sensible with any engine.

Mind you I don't drive my Z3 above 3k RPM much anyway! I figure the slower I go by the more time I give pedestrians to share the Z3 experience :)
ImageImage
1999 Z3 1.9 Boston Green (Dimitri) - My brother's car owned from new and restored by me
2001 Z3 2.2 Topaz Blue (Trudy) - My car rebuilt from a write-off
2002 Z3 2.2 Titan Silver (Okus) - Project car waiting for a new engine
2001 Z3 2.2 Topaz Blue (Debra) - Donor car/breaker
1998 Z3 1.9 Boston Green (Allsworth) - Donor car/breaker now gone to Z3 heaven
Always happy to try and help with spares :)

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