Outdoor ethernet cable with attachments

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whiteminks
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Outdoor ethernet cable with attachments

Post by whiteminks » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 16:17

Hi All,

I've just tried to go wireless and have a problem I need to solve.
I still want to keep my existing pc which has an ethernet connection.
This is currently in the study.

I have a BT Broadband homehub and the house has very thick stone walls.

The pc needs to stay in the study, but if the hub is placed there I can't get a wireless signal on my laptop in the front rooms of the house

I have bought a long internal ADSL wire which runs back to the study and played around with the hub position in the other rooms. I get pretty good wireless reception when the hub is in the kitchen.

I therefore want to place the hub in the kitchen and run an outdoor ethernet cable to the pc in the study.

I can find plenty of suppliers of long outdoor ADSL cables with fittings, so getting one of those isn't a problem. However I can't find outdoor cable which already has ethernet connectors attached. Has anyone got any idea where I can get one?


Cheers P :wink:
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Post by PVR » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 16:27

I assume you mean phone cable when you refer to ADSL cable ...

Ethernet outside is not recommended, but no doubt you will get other people stating that they do just that.

I have a 75 meter cable running from one outbuilding to the house, but I dug a trench and put the cable in trunking first to keep it waterproof and crimped the connectors on at the end.

Don't know what your house looks likes, but if you just want an ethernet cable with connectors on it, just tell me the length you need and I can post a website for it. Maximum length is 100 metre by the way.

You can also just use wireless repeaters (access points) to extend the internal range if that is all what you want to achieve though which sounds to me an easier solution.

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Post by Jonttt » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 16:59

I agree with PVR.

Would be a lot easier, cheaper, neater just to convert your PC to wireless. Test you can get a wireless signal on the laptop in that room first though.

Stick to a well known brand so you know the drivers will be updated etc such as this one

http://www.digidave.co.uk/jshop/product ... froogleDG8

For £8 you can't go wrong :D

Nb.if your computer is old and does not have a USB port you can either add a PCI USB card or even a PCI Wireless card both of which are cheap.

I assume from your description you are still going to run your ASDL line to your kitchen. You do realise this can plug into any phone socket in the house (solong as they are on the same phone number), you don't need to run from the one that the router was originally plugged into, just make sure you plug the filter into the wall which the router plugs into.
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Post by PVR » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 17:19

If it is on the same line, it would already have a filter in that socket as all sockets on that line need a filter connected.

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Post by PhoenixCoupe » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 17:24

If it's on the same ring mains connection (ie, same fuse box), I'd go for HomePlug adaptors. Even the most basic ones will suffice for internet connections.
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Post by Zim » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 17:26

You could always get wireless access points/extenders.

set up your wireless in one room, place the access point/extender in the hallway (a place where ur wifi signal is about 60% strength) the have the access point/extender to boost the signal, if that still not enough use a send access point, that should cover the whole house and be far easier to set up, plus its wireless :)

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Post by PVR » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 17:27

PVR wrote: You can also just use wireless repeaters (access points) to extend the internal range if that is all what you want to achieve though which sounds to me an easier solution.
You mean like this? :D

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Post by Jonttt » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 17:36

PVR

Not if the socket is not currently being used. You only tend to get 2 filters supplied with your router :wink:

From memory you only need the filter connected to sockets you are connecting a telephone to. The router does not actually need the filter (I am rusty myself with these things).

Therefore if there is a phone currently sharing the same telephone socket as the router this will be connected via a filter. Assuming the phone will stay in the same place then the filter will need to stay. If the router is connected to a different telephone socket on the wall which does not need a phone to share the same socket then a filter is not needed at that socket. Is that right?

Anyway wireless is way to go :D
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Post by PVR » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 17:39

Router connection needs a filter as well, and yes, you are right. If there is no phone connected to a socket it does not need a filter on it.

A point to note though when you mention kitchens, some microwaves can have a strange effect on the wireless signal. Just something to be carefull off. (2.4 Ghz etc).

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Post by Jonttt » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 17:39

Access points / extenders / repeaters would only be needed if you can't find anywhere in the house to place the router that would cover all the areas needed.If you can find somewhere (which the kitchen seems to be) then better just to site the router there. There are less things pluged into walls using power having to be turned on/off all the time.
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Post by estocks » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 20:23

PhoenixCoupe wrote:If it's on the same ring mains connection (ie, same fuse box), I'd go for HomePlug adaptors. Even the most basic ones will suffice for internet connections.
This. Try to get the 200MBPS ones online for about £80. the 85MBPS have serious issues, being based on the 14MBPS with extra data being overlayed on the control protocol frames or something.
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Post by PhoenixCoupe » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 20:24

I had the 14mbps ones at the start, and they're fine for internet sharing - and pretty cheap to get.
I have the 200mbps ones now, and they do offer much improved throughput - although, last I looked, they were still a lot more expensive.
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Post by estocks » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 20:37

Thing is 14MBPS is the max, the wiring in an old house plus the long distance could reduce throughput to 50% or less according to the blokes at work.
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Post by Jonttt » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 20:37

guys whats wrong with an £8 USB wireless adapter? Surely you can't get easier and cheaper than that :wink:
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Post by estocks » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 20:42

jonttt wrote:guys whats wrong with an £8 USB wireless adapter? Surely you can't get easier and cheaper than that :wink:
If you read carefully, the wireless can't cover all parts of the house due to the thick walls.
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Post by Jonttt » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 21:27

I read the originl post and interpreted that wireless signal could not cover the house from the current location. However, if it was moved to the kitchen it could but that would mean running a cable from the kitchen to the current PC as it is not wireless and needs to stay in the same room. So easy solution rather than run a wire just make the PC wireless. But check first with the laptop that this room can get a signal from the kitchen.

Seems pretty clear to me. :D

Of course if no signal can be received then the other suggestions would be the next best bet, running a cable would be least desirable on what is presumably an old established house with thick stone walls andf it would not look good.

I'm sure Whiteminks has plenty of thoughts to test out now though :wink:
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Post by estocks » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 21:29

If the wireless won't work from the study to the kitchen, it won't work from the kitchen back to the study either ;)
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Post by Jonttt » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 21:37

estocks

we are both interpreting the original post differently, I'm sure Whiteminks will ellaborate for us soon but I interpreted as :

Router is in study
needs to get wireless signal in front of house (so I presume the study is in the back)
if router put in kitchen can get good signal to front of house (therefore presumably kitchen closer to the front but by same token is probably closer to the study than the front ie somewhere near middle - therefore likely when placed in kitchen both study and front can get wireless)

She does not want the router in the kitchen but as with most house layouts the kitchen tends to be in the centre ish position so can get signal to more rooms (its surprising how many people have routers in the kitchen for just this reason including myself)

Of course this is all guess wrk by me but if correct USB wireless stcik would be perfect :D
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Re: Outdoor ethernet cable with attachments

Post by daverave » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 22:08

whiteminks wrote:However I can't find outdoor cable which already has ethernet connectors attached. Has anyone got any idea where I can get one?


Cheers P :wink:
People you seem to have lost track of the original question. If all P is looking for is a long cable with ethernet connectors either end why not buy the cable and connectors and make the cable up yourself. The parts are available from ebuyer or novatech or any number of computer parts suppliers. Alternatively look on Fleabay

HERE is one example.

Or better still THIS
Although the first may not be suitable for exteral use I have used similar to network computers at my golf club without any problems.
What length are you looking for P :D
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Post by PhoenixCoupe » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 22:14

estocks wrote:Thing is 14MBPS is the max, the wiring in an old house plus the long distance could reduce throughput to 50% or less according to the blokes at work.
Even on '50mbps' internet (which is the fastest domestic internet connection available in the UK), you'd be lucky to get much more than 10mbps when contention ratios and actual throughput is taken into account.
The only reason I upgraded mine to the HomePlug AV units was because I was streaming HD media over mine.
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Re: Outdoor ethernet cable with attachments

Post by Jonttt » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 22:23

daverave wrote:
whiteminks wrote:However I can't find outdoor cable which already has ethernet connectors attached. Has anyone got any idea where I can get one?


Cheers P :wink:
People you seem to have lost track of the original question. If all P is looking for is a long cable with ethernet connectors either end why not buy the cable and connectors and make the cable up yourself. The parts are available from ebuyer or novatech or any number of computer parts suppliers. Alternatively look on Fleabay
:D
Dave, The point was that I didn't think whiteminks realised the easiest and cheapest solution may be to just simply add wireless ability to her PC rather than run a cable around her house :idea:
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Post by Jonttt » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 22:24

ps I bet she is going to be really shocked by the amount of posts this question has generated :lol: Would have been quicker to call round and do it for her :wink:
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Post by daverave » Fri 27 Feb, 2009 22:33

jonttt wrote:Would have been quicker to call round and do it for her :wink:
You may/(or may not) :lol: regret that comment if P takes you up on the offer :wink:
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Re: Outdoor ethernet cable with attachments

Post by PooBear » Sat 28 Feb, 2009 08:47

whiteminks wrote:Hi All,

I've just tried to go wireless and have a problem I need to solve.
I still want to keep my existing pc which has an ethernet connection.
This is currently in the study.

I have a BT Broadband homehub and the house has very thick stone walls.

The pc needs to stay in the study, but if the hub is placed there I can't get a wireless signal on my laptop in the front rooms of the house

I have bought a long internal ADSL wire which runs back to the study and played around with the hub position in the other rooms. I get pretty good wireless reception when the hub is in the kitchen.

I therefore want to place the hub in the kitchen and run an outdoor ethernet cable to the pc in the study.

I can find plenty of suppliers of long outdoor ADSL cables with fittings, so getting one of those isn't a problem. However I can't find outdoor cable which already has ethernet connectors attached. Has anyone got any idea where I can get one?
What you really need to state is, what is your budget, layout of your house & resources available?

As you might be better off (depending on your flooring) liftting up the carpet and cut some of your underlay out and a network cable to the required location...but these are all what if's :)
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Post by PooBear » Sat 28 Feb, 2009 08:49

PhoenixCoupe wrote:I'd go for HomePlug adaptors
Steer clear of these if possible, they are a great solution. But only if no other solution is available, these have high packet loss from previous experience.

EDIT: Those network cables posted by previous users are perfect (depending on how far it needs to travel :)) but they have extremely high P&P, might be better speaking to a local IT company to find one.
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Post by z3ddie » Sun 01 Mar, 2009 07:55

If its any help I am a BT Broadband engineer and have just solved a similar problem for a customer.

I put in an extended ethernet cable from the Homehub for the PC in his office and then used a Belkin Wireless Extender (PC World about £40) to 'push' the wireless round the house.

These network extenders are a sod to configure but if you go down that route feel free to PM me and I can talk you though it

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Post by Robert T » Sun 01 Mar, 2009 16:37

Hi P,

I suspect your biggest problem is very thick stone walls, as I think you live in a farmhouse, iirc.

If you're struggling with the idea of wiring up ethernet sockets, then it isn't difficult, but you will need to RTFM to get the connections right - and no, I don't know what the connection order is for Ethernet off the top of my head. :wink:

If you get indoor cable with connectors and run it in some trunking, then I think your problem will be getting the cables through whatever holes you drill with the connectors on the end.

I would order the kit with two sockets, outdoor cable and an insertion tool. That way you can remove the indoor bits of cable for the purposes of cleaning and redecorating.

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Post by PhoenixCoupe » Sun 01 Mar, 2009 18:45

Or you could buy the HomePlug units, and have no drilling, no cables outside, and so on... :twisted:
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Post by Jonttt » Sun 01 Mar, 2009 18:49

or you could buy the USB Wireless Receiver and just plug in for £8 :D
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Post by whiteminks » Mon 02 Mar, 2009 09:47

Wow thanks for all the replies folks! :shock:

Choices, choices........... I'll get my thinking cap on and work my way through the options. :D
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Post by whiteminks » Mon 02 Mar, 2009 20:44

Hi All,

Have been thinking about Zeddie's ethernet wire and range extender option.

Not only do we have to contend with thick stone walls but the farmhouse we live in has 3 floors. The thing is unlike most houses the upper floors are made out of a stone/concrete stuff too.................... yes it is very rare to have a building constructed like that but the Georgians were well 'ard.

The thing is my lap-top is already N enabled. The Belkin appears to be only G enabled????

Will this extender work and does it need a network wire or not?

http://www.shop.bt.com/productview.aspx?quicklinx=5BR5


Cheers P ;-) :


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Post by gookah » Wed 04 Mar, 2009 01:25

Just move house!!, there are some good offers on now, you can probably pick up a four bedroom one for less than the cable prices!!!

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Post by PhoenixCoupe » Wed 04 Mar, 2009 02:18

I'd be surprised if the range extender works through thick stone and concrete walls...
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Post by z3ddie » Wed 04 Mar, 2009 17:06

The important thing is to get a network extender that is compatible with your router. They can be configured in 2 ways.
1. as a Wireless extender that simply rebroadcasts the signal around the property
2. as a Network access point where the box is connected to the router via an ethernet cable where the signal is not strong enough to pass from the router to the extender via wireless and therefore you are providing wired coverage to the blank area

Hope that makes sense to you - as I said they can be a bit tricky to configure so please feel free to contact me if you have any probs

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Post by z3ddie » Wed 04 Mar, 2009 17:09

Oh and as for those plug in the mains type things we have had nightmares with them - if the electrical ring is of poor quality and the earth is not good they are rubbish. They also have to be on the same ring as well - this has been discovered by a lot of trial and error and they have never been a real success in older properties

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Post by PVR » Wed 04 Mar, 2009 17:14

Could you define "same ring"? I am contemplating that setup for a client where there is an outbuilding with power only and the power is connected to the main properties power board.

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Post by PhoenixCoupe » Wed 04 Mar, 2009 18:28

That should be the same ring.

Some people have problems with them due to poor quality wiring (and others because they are idiots and unable to set them up - which involves pressing a button on each one, unless you want to change settings which you don't need to do most of the time), I've had no issues with mine in the slightest. But, even if you get a few Mbps, that's plenty for internet....
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Post by PVR » Wed 04 Mar, 2009 21:07

I assume it is suitable for LAN traffic - i.e you can use it for a switch to switch connection?

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Post by PhoenixCoupe » Wed 04 Mar, 2009 21:10

Indeed you can.
There are 3 variants:
14Mbps - very cheap these days, fine for sharing internet / printers
85Mbps - I have no experience of these personally
200Mbps - I use these to stream HD media from my media center to 2 extenders. Both can run at the same time through a switch.

One thing that surprises me though is that no-one has brought out a mains face plate with the adapter built in to it.
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Post by PVR » Wed 04 Mar, 2009 21:29

Which make are you using for those?

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Post by PhoenixCoupe » Thu 05 Mar, 2009 00:16

Mine are Devolo - like these:
http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop/Sh ... uctID=6021

Only I paid more than twice as much when I got them...
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Post by PVR » Thu 05 Mar, 2009 09:01

Excellent, thanks. Will give those a try.

Customer wants security camera's in stables and it was way too far to have a wireless reaching it and digging a cable is just too much.

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Post by estocks » Mon 09 Mar, 2009 00:38

PVR wrote:Excellent, thanks. Will give those a try.

Customer wants security camera's in stables and it was way too far to have a wireless reaching it and digging a cable is just too much.
Make sure the stables come back the the same fuse box!

P> Wireless N is compatible with wireless G. If you are intending to transfer files from one location to the other (eg, backing up photos or accessing music/movies) I'd go with the outdoor Cat6 solution, assuming it's an easy route up the outside of the house. Outdoor cable is really only nessesary if the cable will be underground and exposed to continuous moisture there. Regular cable should last fine for 10+ years.

Wireless extenders halve the data throughput unless you get two radios.

I have some twin radio Avaya AP-3s that I picked up on eBay for £15 each that can make a 11MBPS wireless distribution network. Maybe one of the newer models can do 54MBPS, but they must all be the same brands as WDS is a proprietary service.
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Post by smartypants » Mon 09 Mar, 2009 15:16

PhoenixCoupe wrote:If it's on the same ring mains connection (ie, same fuse box), I'd go for HomePlug adaptors. Even the most basic ones will suffice for internet connections.
This is also what I suggest trying

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Post by Robert T » Mon 09 Mar, 2009 19:28

How can you tell if wireless-N is active on Vista? I was expecting to see a connection speed of more than 54Mbps, but no joy. Any ideas?

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Post by whiteminks » Sun 22 Mar, 2009 21:17

Just thought I would update you on the wireless situation.

First of all I tried making my PC wireless, leaving it in the study and then moving the homehub to the kitchen.

No luck at all, despite buying a Belkin USB adapter which was £31 :head:
My laptop must be much better at picking up a wireless signal than the pc usb conversion. So the 'if the laptop works through the wall', theory might be logical but it doesn't follow that the adapted pc will, even though it isn't very old.

So I went back down the outdoor waterproof ethernet cable route and purchased a 10 metre one for £19. The cable runs out through the study window frame along the outside wall of the house and back in through the kitchen window frame. The ASDL cable runs in tandem
After doing a web search I found some advice which said to drill downhill from the inside and use silicone filler to keep things inside watertight.

www.ethernetcables.co.uk supplied the ethernet cable.

The result is I am now wireless in most of the rooms in the house.( ground and first floor) and outside the house for at least an acre all round.

I get some coverage on the second floor but can't log on up there so part of the plan next will be to get a range extender to boost the single from the first floor to the second.

:wink:

Thanks to everyone for all your help and suggestions.

8-)

Edit: Forgot to add that I couldn't use the plug in the wall booster thingies as the study and the stables have a different fuse box to the kitchen.
big cheesy wrote:'I nearly cacked my trolleys till I quickly tuned in'. Yorkshire Cruise 2008.

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