Wheel Alignment

Jet · Post by **Jet** » Thu 02 Apr, 2009 20:52

Never too old to learn, I learnt something new today. I have been struggling with my steering for some time, feels like im fighting to keep it in on the road and very heavy. Dropped into a wheel alignment firm who checks all your bushes, joints, tyre pressures and adjusts all 4 wheels according to a giant computer screen.
1 hour and £50 later, my good lord, what a difference, I have a huge grin on my face, steering is light as a feather, handling has improved, I can steer with one finger and I was about to replace all 4 tyres as the cause.

Wheel alignment is something that should be checked once a year or 10k miles apparently, (or if you climb/whack alot of kerbs) and is easily forgotten, so I recommend it for anyone who has overlooked this particular service.

Thank you Goodwins.

Racing Tortoise · Post by **Racing Tortoise** » Thu 02 Apr, 2009 21:36

Sounds good.

Whereabouts are they?

Was somewhere over your parts this afternoon as I had to collect something from Mercedes Stratford.

Jet · Post by **Jet** » Fri 03 Apr, 2009 07:55

RacingTeatray wrote:Sounds good.

Whereabouts are they?

Was somewhere over your parts this afternoon as I had to collect something from Mercedes Stratford.

It used to be a BMW franchise as you know, was very dissapointed when it changed into a Merc dealer, BMW Park Lane is now the most (in)convenient.
Goodwins is 15minutes away on Green Lanes in Ilford, one of the few places you can get a professional alignment.

felix · Post by **felix** » Fri 03 Apr, 2009 08:14

Jet, can you post the before and after figures from the alignment?

Holland Harry · Post by **Holland Harry** » Fri 03 Apr, 2009 09:47

Jet wrote:Never too old to learn, I learnt something new today. I have been struggling with my steering for some time, feels like im fighting to keep it in on the road and very heavy. Dropped into a wheel alignment firm who checks all your bushes, joints, tyre pressures and adjusts all 4 wheels according to a giant computer screen.
1 hour and £50 later, my good lord, what a difference, I have a huge grin on my face, steering is light as a feather, handling has improved, I can steer with one finger and I was about to replace all 4 tyres as the cause.

Wheel alignment is something that should be checked once a year or 10k miles apparently, (or if you climb/whack alot of kerbs) and is easily forgotten, so I recommend it for anyone who has overlooked this particular service.

Thank you Goodwins.

Dear mister Hamilton,

I am glad you found out the trick!

Maybe you now can start learning to drive the da@mm thing.

You know that for a really good alignment of the rear axle you need to take of the side panels of the Z1. For the cornering of the car the rearxale is as important for the Zed as is the front axle. Than the Zed will corner even more brilliant than it does now.

Mine is done ones a year to have a perfect balance in the car. And it really works!!

Cruising isn't everything!!!!!!!!!

Jet · Post by **Jet** » Fri 03 Apr, 2009 10:39

felix wrote:Jet, can you post the before and after figures from the alignment?

Yes indeed, they gave me this pretty A4 coloured printout with all sorts of information I didnt understand, but it looks nice. Will do when I get home.

I also have something else to lookup for you, will check later.

Jet · Post by **Jet** » Fri 03 Apr, 2009 11:25

Holland Harry wrote:
Jet wrote:Never too old to learn, I learnt something new today. I have been struggling with my steering for some time, feels like im fighting to keep it in on the road and very heavy. Dropped into a wheel alignment firm who checks all your bushes, joints, tyre pressures and adjusts all 4 wheels according to a giant computer screen.
1 hour and £50 later, my good lord, what a difference, I have a huge grin on my face, steering is light as a feather, handling has improved, I can steer with one finger and I was about to replace all 4 tyres as the cause.

Wheel alignment is something that should be checked once a year or 10k miles apparently, (or if you climb/whack alot of kerbs) and is easily forgotten, so I recommend it for anyone who has overlooked this particular service.

Thank you Goodwins.
Dear mister Hamilton,

I am glad you found out the trick! Maybe you now can start learning to drive the da@mm thing.

You know that for a really good alignment of the rear axle you need to take of the side panels of the Z1. For the cornering of the car the rearxale is as important for the Zed as is the front axle. Than the Zed will corner even more brilliant than it does now.

Mine is done ones a year to have a perfect balance in the car. And it really works!!

Cruising isn't everything!!!!!!!!!

It has taken over 15 years of R&D, tests, and a budget the size of NASA to reach this point where my driving skills and Z1 handling are in perfect harmony with London roads and the occaisional road trip to Hamburg!!

Holland Harry · Post by **Holland Harry** » Fri 03 Apr, 2009 12:25

Jet wrote:
Holland Harry wrote:
Jet wrote:Never too old to learn, I learnt something new today. I have been struggling with my steering for some time, feels like im fighting to keep it in on the road and very heavy. Dropped into a wheel alignment firm who checks all your bushes, joints, tyre pressures and adjusts all 4 wheels according to a giant computer screen.
1 hour and £50 later, my good lord, what a difference, I have a huge grin on my face, steering is light as a feather, handling has improved, I can steer with one finger and I was about to replace all 4 tyres as the cause.

Wheel alignment is something that should be checked once a year or 10k miles apparently, (or if you climb/whack alot of kerbs) and is easily forgotten, so I recommend it for anyone who has overlooked this particular service.

Thank you Goodwins.
Dear mister Hamilton,

I am glad you found out the trick! Maybe you now can start learning to drive the da@mm thing.

You know that for a really good alignment of the rear axle you need to take of the side panels of the Z1. For the cornering of the car the rearxale is as important for the Zed as is the front axle. Than the Zed will corner even more brilliant than it does now.

Mine is done ones a year to have a perfect balance in the car. And it really works!!

Cruising isn't everything!!!!!!!!!

It has taken over 15 years of R&D, tests, and a budget the size of NASA to reach this point where my driving skills and Z1 handling are in perfect harmony with London roads and the occaisional road trip to Hamburg!!

Now you just need a nice and very loud exhaust!

BBZ149 · Post by **BBZ149** » Fri 03 Apr, 2009 15:43

Yo Jet, long time no hear!

Can’t believe Goodwin’s are still there, I used to live round the corner from them and used to know the owner Doggie Goodwin.

Another place to get tracking done is Elite auto’s Rainham Essex. I heard the car needs to be weighted before tracking, is this true? As I need to get mine ready for the summer after changing a rear adjustable suspension bush last year.

Hope to catch-up soon

Jet · Post by **Jet** » Fri 03 Apr, 2009 15:45

BBZ149 wrote:Yo Jet, long time no hear !

Can’t believe Goodwin’s are still there, I used to live round the corner from them and used to know the owner Doggie Goodwin.

Another place to get tracking done is Elite auto’s Rainham Essex. I heard the car needs to be weighted before tracking, is this true? As I need to get mine ready for the summer after changing a rear adjustable suspension bush last year.

Hope to catch-up soon

CRIKEY, BBZ is back....

I need your number, some big things happening this year, PM me your number now Mister

Jet · Post by **Jet** » Fri 03 Apr, 2009 21:16

felix wrote:Jet, can you post the before and after figures from the alignment?

After / (Before)

LF Camber -1.24 (1.46)
RF Camber -1.35 (-1.23)
LF Toe 0.07 (0.40)
RF Toe -0.07 (0.40)

LR Camber -1.27 (-1.41)
RR camber -1.12 (0.58)
LR Toe 0.04 (0.02)
RR Toe 0.13 (0.12)

Front total Toe 0.15 (1.32)
Front steer ahead 0.00 (-0.02)

Rear Total toe 0.16 (0.14)
Rear thrust angle -0.04 (-0.05)

What does all this mean?

Racing Tortoise · Post by **Racing Tortoise** » Sat 04 Apr, 2009 01:13

Jet wrote:
RacingTeatray wrote:Sounds good.

Whereabouts are they?

Was somewhere over your parts this afternoon as I had to collect something from Mercedes Stratford.
It used to be a BMW franchise as you know, was very dissapointed when it changed into a Merc dealer, BMW Park Lane is now the most (in)convenient.
Goodwins is 15minutes away on Green Lanes in Ilford, one of the few places you can get a professional alignment.

Park Lane? Is that really the closest? I got my 135i from Sytner Canary Wharf, which is my local dealer and Sytner also have a huge showroom/service centre in Harold Wood - surely that's closer?

Interesting - might pay a visit to Goodwins then. Both the Z1 and 500E could probably benefit from an alignment check since neither is under 16 years of age.

Petrolhead · Post by **Petrolhead** » Sat 04 Apr, 2009 07:41

Fully endorse the original posters comment, had the A3 done and made a difference and today our Z is in. I will let you know the figures..

Petrolhead · Post by **Petrolhead** » Sat 04 Apr, 2009 09:13

Well back - 1/2 hour and only 30 quid

Feels 100% better.

98left was well out toe in before 0.44 and after 0.16 there were other minor changes but that was the largest. It should have been between 0.09 and 0.22

Explains the wear on the inside front left............

Stoertie · Post by **Stoertie** » Mon 06 Apr, 2009 06:21

Jet wrote:
felix wrote:Jet, can you post the before and after figures from the alignment?

After / (Before)

LF Camber -1.24 (1.46)
RF Camber -1.35 (-1.23)
LF Toe 0.07 (0.40)
RF Toe -0.07 (0.40)

LR Camber -1.27 (-1.41)
RR camber -1.12 (0.58)
LR Toe 0.04 (0.02)
RR Toe 0.13 (0.12)

Front total Toe 0.15 (1.32)
Front steer ahead 0.00 (-0.02)

Rear Total toe 0.16 (0.14)
Rear thrust angle -0.04 (-0.05)

What does all this mean?

Hi Jet,

for me it's a little bit too complicated to explain these tecnical terms in english...

The data of my car are a little bit different, because we tried to reach the E36 M3 data, where it's possible and I made some changes at the car (M3 wishbone bearings, guide supports with camber correction at the front axle, 10mm spacers at the rear and 5mm at the front):

LF Camber: -1°58' (it's not adjustable at our cars)
RF Camber: -2°.03' (it's not adjustable at our cars)
LF Toe: 0°10'
RF Toe: 0°10'

LR Camber: -2°19'
RR camber: -2°25'
LR Toe 0°18'
RR Toe 0°10'

Front total Toe: 0°20'
Front steer ahead: (don't know what it means)

Rear Total toe: 0°27'
Rear thrust angle: (don't know what it means)

This adjustment will make a little bit more wearout at the tires, but it's is very direct, has a very exact steering behaviour and it minimises the understeering.

Regards
Michael

meldrew · Post by **meldrew** » Thu 08 Jul, 2010 16:45

Just taken my 1998 Z3 1.9 to two alignment specialists, as it is like driving a jelly.

Front wheels were done which showed a little improvement, but I was told by both companies the rear wheel alignment was badly out , but there is no means of adjusting this on these cars. They showed me why and yes there is no means of adjusting rear wheel alignment.

How others have claimed to have 4 wheel alignment is beyond me, it seems you have to replace the suspension.

I wish someone could prove me wrong, as my faith in BMW is gone, as my previous Mr2 would run rings around this Z3, particularly handling.

Its done 69k, top spec, but it will have to go to a new home unless a cure can be found.

Jet · Post by **Jet** » Thu 08 Jul, 2010 22:49

meldrew wrote:Just taken my 1998 Z3 1.9 to two alignment specialists, as it is like driving a jelly.

Front wheels were done which showed a little improvement, but I was told by both companies the rear wheel alignment was badly out , but there is no means of adjusting this on these cars. They showed me why and yes there is no means of adjusting rear wheel alignment.

How others have claimed to have 4 wheel alignment is beyond me, it seems you have to replace the suspension.

I wish someone could prove me wrong, as my faith in BMW is gone, as my previous Mr2 would run rings around this Z3, particularly handling.

Its done 69k, top spec, but it will have to go to a new home unless a cure can be found.

Sorry Victor, cant help you there, I know nothing about the Z3.

Post by **Green Genie** » Mon 12 Jul, 2010 21:16

Had my tracking done approx. 2yrs ago cos I noticed inner wear on the front tyres unfortunately I went to a local quick fit kind of place Big Mistake The car drove badly and the steering wheel was on squint.

These guy's obviously did not know the toe in setting for a z1.

So with a copy of F.Brousauds manual which lists toe in I went to another tracking place...much better car driving o.k but steering wheel still off squint not much this time quarter to half an Inch but still annoying.The guy said its probably down to the inner wear on the tyres and would go when changed.I have just replaced both front tyres and its still the same the car passes MOT's so I presume the ball joints etc are o.k and that this is still a tracking problem I dont want to ruin my new tyres and I want the steering wheel pointing straight ahead. BMW want about £300 for a KDS check

Does anyone know if the Hunter system is as good thinking of trying these http://www.alignmycar.co.uk/
Anyone else got an off centre steering wheel? as I said its not much out but annoying.

Thanks in advance.
GG

BBZ149 · Post by **BBZ149** » Tue 13 Jul, 2010 10:32

Green Genie wrote:Had my tracking done approx. 2yrs ago cos I noticed inner wear on the front tyres unfortunately I went to a local quick fit kind of place Big Mistake The car drove badly and the steering wheel was on squint.

These guy's obviously did not know the toe in setting for a z1.

So with a copy of F.Brousauds manual which lists toe in I went to another tracking place...much better car driving o.k but steering wheel still off squint not much this time quarter to half an Inch but still annoying.The guy said its probably down to the inner wear on the tyres and would go when changed.I have just replaced both front tyres and its still the same the car passes MOT's so I presume the ball joints etc are o.k and that this is still a tracking problem I dont want to ruin my new tyres and I want the steering wheel pointing straight ahead. BMW want about £300 for a KDS check Does anyone know if the Hunter system is as good thinking of trying these http://www.alignmycar.co.uk/
Anyone else got an off centre steering wheel? as I said its not much out but annoying.

Thanks in advance.
GG

GG, just unbolt the wheel not forgetting to take the steering lock off and adjust it! the splines are only mm wide so you should get it to sit perfectly.

Pat Slade · Post by **Pat Slade** » Tue 13 Jul, 2010 10:56

GG
If that doesn't work it is simply a matter if adjusting the track rod ends. As long as you turn the left and right arms an equal number of turns or fractions of a turn the tracking will not alter.
It may be a bit of a fiddle and you may need a couple of tries but it will give you finer adjustment than you will get from the splines on the steering column.

Good luck.

BBZ149 · Post by **BBZ149** » Tue 13 Jul, 2010 11:04

Pat Slade wrote:GG
If that doesn't work it is simply a matter if adjusting the track rod ends. As long as you turn the left and right arms an equal number of turns or fractions of a turn the tracking will not alter.
It may be a bit of a fiddle and you may need a couple of tries but it will give you finer adjustment than you will get from the splines on the steering column.

Good luck.

But do that incorrectly then your tracking you just paid all that money to do will be out again!

Post by **Green Genie** » Thu 15 Jul, 2010 19:34

BBZ 149 wrote GG, just unbolt the wheel not forgetting to take the steering lock off and adjust it! the splines are only mm wide so you should get it to sit perfectly.

Thanks for that Terry I'm a bit reluctant to remove the steering wheel and adjust as the problem seems to have started since the tracking was done but it may come to that.

Pat Slade wrote:GG
If that doesn't work it is simply a matter if adjusting the track rod ends. As long as you turn the left and right arms an equal number of turns or fractions of a turn the tracking will not alter.
It may be a bit of a fiddle and you may need a couple of tries but it will give you finer adjustment than you will get from the splines on the steering column.

Good luck.

Thanks Pat I'm a bit unsure of adjusting the track myself and making matters worse.

Has anyone used these people http://www.alignmycar.co.uk/ They say on their site to do tracking costs about the price of a tyre so for a z1 say £125-£150

most places seem to charge £30ish although they dont add weight in the car and the two I've used havent been brilliant.

They all claim 4 wheel lazer alignment but this must vary depending on equipment used and technician operating same.

Is the Hunter system the same as BMW's KDS?...anyone.

Thanks GG

BBZ149 · Post by **BBZ149** » Thu 15 Jul, 2010 20:21

Green Genie wrote:Thanks for that Terry I'm a bit reluctant to remove the steering wheel and adjust as the problem seems to have started since the tracking was done but it may come to that.

Hi GG, it's only out because they tracked it without fixing the steering wheel dead centre! If you’re having it done again anyway, state you want the wheel centred correctly and if it's not 100% correct after they track it, tell them to align it again at the front. But I would not waste the money having it done again if it feels right, id just keep an eye out for uneven tyre wear.

I paid £70 to the Muppets at Elite autos in Rainham who wanted to charge me extra to adjust other stuff! They did not even check the front or rear steering and suspension. I took it to Goodwin’s in Ilford and the said straight away the front suspension joints had play in them and to take it back once I had changed them. Elite autos should have checked this, but there only interested in extorting money out of people, so that was a wasted £70.

Instead of just changing the 2 joints, I just changed the complete wishbones, and even the track rod ends as they were so cheap from Germany, then took it back to Goodwin’s and all now finally seems fine.

Good luck and I hope you find somewhere reliable to get it done, as there seems to be a lot of cowboys out there when it comes to a Z1!

Post by **Green Genie** » Sat 17 Jul, 2010 20:13

BBZ149 wrote: Hi GG, it's only out because they tracked it without fixing the steering wheel dead centre! If you’re having it done again anyway, state you want the wheel centred correctly and if it's not 100% correct after they track it, tell them to align it again at the front. But I would not waste the money having it done again if it feels right, id just keep an eye out for uneven tyre wear.

Thanks Terry I will keep an eye out for uneven wear appreciate your input.

GG

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