The question is Ivor, will you be needing 2 parking spacesa1z1 wrote:And another paid up member
Z1 Tour 2011
Thomas Booked It!
I have confirmed my place today with the hotel.
See you all in June.
Darren.
See you all in June.
Darren.
BBZ149 wrote:The question is Ivor, will you be needing 2 parking spacesa1z1 wrote:And another paid up member
The million dollor question....... Mmmm maybe done? I believe the pannels are in being painted at the moment and then its just a case of throwing them back on and crossing fingers it passes an MOT!!!
I'd like to just say a quick thank you to Jamal for his hard work at sorting a hotel, it looks lovely i just hope i get time to nip to the spa
Looking forward to seeing you all again
- Racing Tortoise
- Z Register member
- Joined: Mon 07 Nov, 2005 15:53
- Posts: 894
- Location: SW6
Hi Bindy, You better start cracking the whip a little harderthe wife wrote:BBZ149 wrote:The question is Ivor, will you be needing 2 parking spacesa1z1 wrote:And another paid up member
The million dollor question....... Mmmm maybe done? I believe the pannels are in being painted at the moment and then its just a case of throwing them back on and crossing fingers it passes an MOT!!!
I'd like to just say a quick thank you to Jamal for his hard work at sorting a hotel, it looks lovely i just hope i get time to nip to the spa
Looking forward to seeing you all again
Open and close with German style and ingenuity!
Oh don't worry i'm cracking the whip!! I've even got Bluebaur working on it too!
We gone for keeping it green.
We gone for keeping it green.
Friends are like knickers.Some crawl up your arse.Some don't have the strength to hold you up.Some get a little twisted.Some are your favorite.Some are holey.Some are cheap and just plain nasty.And some actually do cover your arse when u need them to.
- Racing Tortoise
- Z Register member
- Joined: Mon 07 Nov, 2005 15:53
- Posts: 894
- Location: SW6
Jet and the Crew
We have just confirmed our room. Can't wait!
Thanks Jamal, for organising everything.
We have just confirmed our room. Can't wait!
Thanks Jamal, for organising everything.
Best regards,
Sam Lever.
Anyone who says money isn't everything hasn't found the right classic car yet.
Z1 - 3.0csl - 987 Boxster - Austin 7 Special - Rolls 20 - '72 911 - '95 318is
Black Sport Evo M3 & SG M3 CSL - now someone else's pleasure
Blue 2800cs - now someone else's pain
Old cars - the original "Not for Profit" organisation
Independent Financial Adviser in Buckingham
My Financial Blog
Sam Lever.
Anyone who says money isn't everything hasn't found the right classic car yet.
Z1 - 3.0csl - 987 Boxster - Austin 7 Special - Rolls 20 - '72 911 - '95 318is
Black Sport Evo M3 & SG M3 CSL - now someone else's pleasure
Blue 2800cs - now someone else's pain
Old cars - the original "Not for Profit" organisation
Independent Financial Adviser in Buckingham
My Financial Blog
-
- Joined: Sun 24 Aug, 2008 11:19
- Posts: 739
- Location: Assen
Sorry to hear your news Harry. We'll miss you, but as you say, there is always next year........
Best regards,
Sam Lever.
Anyone who says money isn't everything hasn't found the right classic car yet.
Z1 - 3.0csl - 987 Boxster - Austin 7 Special - Rolls 20 - '72 911 - '95 318is
Black Sport Evo M3 & SG M3 CSL - now someone else's pleasure
Blue 2800cs - now someone else's pain
Old cars - the original "Not for Profit" organisation
Independent Financial Adviser in Buckingham
My Financial Blog
Sam Lever.
Anyone who says money isn't everything hasn't found the right classic car yet.
Z1 - 3.0csl - 987 Boxster - Austin 7 Special - Rolls 20 - '72 911 - '95 318is
Black Sport Evo M3 & SG M3 CSL - now someone else's pleasure
Blue 2800cs - now someone else's pain
Old cars - the original "Not for Profit" organisation
Independent Financial Adviser in Buckingham
My Financial Blog
Harry sorry to hear about your news.
and another little teaser
Looking forward to a great weekend hopefully with two parking spaces.
If the wife wants to go she has to muck in and help.the wife wrote: Oh don't worry i'm cracking the whip!! I've even got Bluebaur working on it too!
We gone for keeping it green.
and another little teaser
Looking forward to a great weekend hopefully with two parking spaces.
________________
1990 Red Z1 (Gone back to the motherland)
1991 Green Z1 (stolen by the wife)
1990 Red Z1 (Gone back to the motherland)
1991 Green Z1 (stolen by the wife)
- Racing Tortoise
- Z Register member
- Joined: Mon 07 Nov, 2005 15:53
- Posts: 894
- Location: SW6
Well, I'm really sorry I can't attend what looks to being a superb weekend. I would have loved to see (and hear) the Nouvalari exhausts, the Carbon panels, the lighting upgrades, the engine upgrades, the sound and navigation aids and all the other things you guys have done since the last meeting two years ago.
For some time now I've wanted to walk the GR20 across the mountains of Corsica, a 2 week trek). So Janet and I will be roughing it in a tent 5000ft up a mountain while you are luxuriating in the Cotswolds. We've never backpacked a trail before and don't do camping so this is really in at the deep end. There's a narrow window when the snow melts and before the crowds arrive hence the clash of dates.
I wish you well and feel sure with Jamal's great organisation and Spokey's route planning it will be a success.
For some time now I've wanted to walk the GR20 across the mountains of Corsica, a 2 week trek). So Janet and I will be roughing it in a tent 5000ft up a mountain while you are luxuriating in the Cotswolds. We've never backpacked a trail before and don't do camping so this is really in at the deep end. There's a narrow window when the snow melts and before the crowds arrive hence the clash of dates.
I wish you well and feel sure with Jamal's great organisation and Spokey's route planning it will be a success.
Thank you Scorpion, speaking of route, Spokey/Chris, can either of you publish the details please so we can all start planning where to tag on. Chris you proposed a lunch stop, did you get anywhere with them, can they accommodate the group?SCORPION wrote: I wish you well and feel sure with Jamal's great organisation and Spokey's route planning it will be a success.
Gents,
Can you all select what you and your party would like to eat, by stating as follows:
- Starter/Main/Veg/Dessert followed by 1,2 or 3 to indicate choice.
BANQUETING MENU STARTERS
Please choose one starter from the selection below to
create your own menu for your guests
1.Cream of leek & potato soup with croutons (v)
2.Cream of tomato & basil soup with crème fraiche (v)
3.Roast parsnip & honey soup with parsnip shavings (v)
4.Spiced butternut and almond soup topped with toasted almonds (v)
5.Broccoli & brie tart with salad leaves and chutney (v)
6.Leek & roast tomato tartlet baked with cheddar and cream (v)
7.Galia melon with mango sorbet and passion fruit coulis (v)
8.Smoked salmon terrine with salad leaves and lime crème fraiche
9.Salmon gravadlax with rocket, capers and dill vinaigrette
10.Chicken Caesar salad topped with shaved parmesan, croutons and Caesar dressing
11.Chicken liver parfait with red onion marmalade and toasted brioche
12.Rillette of duck with Oriental salad and a hoi sin dressing
13.Game terrine served accompanied with Cumberland sauce and toasted brioche
(v) denotes suitable for vegetarians.
Please speak with your co-ordinator if you have any questions regarding allergies and GM foods.
BANQUETING MENU MAIN COURSES
Please choose one dish from the selection below to
create your own menu for your guests
1.Oven baked fillet of salmon with buttered new potatoes and seasonal vegetables in a dill white wine sauce
2.Seared fillet of sea bass with spring onion mash, seasonal vegetables and tomato & herb coulis (supplement £3.50)
3.Pan fried supreme of chicken with herb couscous, roasted Mediterranean vegetables and tomato salsa
4.Corn fed chicken breast with herb mash, seasonal vegetables and green peppercorn sauce
5.Roast breast of turkey with chipolata & bacon rolls, stuffing, roast potatoes, seasonal vegetables and cranberry jus
6.Confit of duck leg with seasonal vegetables, fondant potato and pak choi in plum sauce (supplement £3.50)
7.Roast loin of Wiltshire pork with glazed apple, grain mustard mashed potato, seasonal vegetables and 'Stowfard Press' cider sauce
8.Roast rump of lamb with creamed potato, green beans and buttered carrots in a Madeira jus (supplement £3.50)
9.Roast sirloin of beef and Yorkshire pudding with buttered vegetables and roast potatoes in a red wine jus (supplement £6.50)
10.‘Host a roast’: A roast topside beef joint, bowls of buttered vegetables, roast potatoes and a red wine jus served to each table for your guests to carve and serve
Each ‘Chef’ receives a Four Pillars apron, carving knife and Chef’s hat
(supplement £6.50)
11.Medallions of beef with woodland mushrooms, buttered carrots, sautéed leeks, fondant potato & a rich port sauce (supplement £12.95)
(v) denotes suitable for vegetarians.
Please speak with your co-ordinator if you have any questions regarding allergies and GM foods.
BANQUETING MENU VEGETARIAN MAIN COURSES
Please choose one vegetarian dish from the selection below to
create your own menu for your guests
1.Leek and pecan nut filo parcel with a tomato & basil sauce served with new potatoes and seasonal vegetables
2.Herb and sun blushed tomato polenta topped with goat’s cheese and roasted vegetables accompanied with new potatoes and served with a red pesto cream
3.Wild mushroom risotto served with a rocket & parmesan salad and garlic bread
4.Roast bell pepper tart tatin with a red pesto cream, seasonal leaves and new potatoes
5.Baked gnocchi in a spinach & mushroom cream sauce with herb oil dressing served with a rocket & parmesan salad and garlic bread
6.Asparagus spears & sun blushed tomato wrapped in filo pastry with a tarragon cream served with seasonal vegetables and potatoes
(v) denotes suitable for vegetarians.
Please speak with your co-ordinator if you have any questions regarding allergies and GM foods.
BANQUETING MENU DESSERTS
Please choose one dessert from the selection below to
create your own menu for your guests
1.Classic lemon tart with raspberry coulis
2.Blueberry cheesecake with crème fraiche
3.Passion fruit delice with berry compote
4.Normandy apple tart with vanilla mascarpone
5.Chocolate truffle torte with crème Anglaise and a chocolate straw
6.Cream filled profiteroles with chocolate sauce
7.White chocolate & champagne torte with raspberry coulis
8.Baileys & white chocolate cheesecake with a coffee Anglaise sauce
9.Pecan and walnut tart with clotted cream and toffee sauce
10.Coffee & Mints
11.CHEESE BOARDS
A collection of mature cheddar, Somerset brie and Stilton cheese served with crisp celery, fresh grapes, crunchy apple and a biscuit selection
Individual - £6.95 Table of 10 - £39.00
Can you all select what you and your party would like to eat, by stating as follows:
- Starter/Main/Veg/Dessert followed by 1,2 or 3 to indicate choice.
BANQUETING MENU STARTERS
Please choose one starter from the selection below to
create your own menu for your guests
1.Cream of leek & potato soup with croutons (v)
2.Cream of tomato & basil soup with crème fraiche (v)
3.Roast parsnip & honey soup with parsnip shavings (v)
4.Spiced butternut and almond soup topped with toasted almonds (v)
5.Broccoli & brie tart with salad leaves and chutney (v)
6.Leek & roast tomato tartlet baked with cheddar and cream (v)
7.Galia melon with mango sorbet and passion fruit coulis (v)
8.Smoked salmon terrine with salad leaves and lime crème fraiche
9.Salmon gravadlax with rocket, capers and dill vinaigrette
10.Chicken Caesar salad topped with shaved parmesan, croutons and Caesar dressing
11.Chicken liver parfait with red onion marmalade and toasted brioche
12.Rillette of duck with Oriental salad and a hoi sin dressing
13.Game terrine served accompanied with Cumberland sauce and toasted brioche
(v) denotes suitable for vegetarians.
Please speak with your co-ordinator if you have any questions regarding allergies and GM foods.
BANQUETING MENU MAIN COURSES
Please choose one dish from the selection below to
create your own menu for your guests
1.Oven baked fillet of salmon with buttered new potatoes and seasonal vegetables in a dill white wine sauce
2.Seared fillet of sea bass with spring onion mash, seasonal vegetables and tomato & herb coulis (supplement £3.50)
3.Pan fried supreme of chicken with herb couscous, roasted Mediterranean vegetables and tomato salsa
4.Corn fed chicken breast with herb mash, seasonal vegetables and green peppercorn sauce
5.Roast breast of turkey with chipolata & bacon rolls, stuffing, roast potatoes, seasonal vegetables and cranberry jus
6.Confit of duck leg with seasonal vegetables, fondant potato and pak choi in plum sauce (supplement £3.50)
7.Roast loin of Wiltshire pork with glazed apple, grain mustard mashed potato, seasonal vegetables and 'Stowfard Press' cider sauce
8.Roast rump of lamb with creamed potato, green beans and buttered carrots in a Madeira jus (supplement £3.50)
9.Roast sirloin of beef and Yorkshire pudding with buttered vegetables and roast potatoes in a red wine jus (supplement £6.50)
10.‘Host a roast’: A roast topside beef joint, bowls of buttered vegetables, roast potatoes and a red wine jus served to each table for your guests to carve and serve
Each ‘Chef’ receives a Four Pillars apron, carving knife and Chef’s hat
(supplement £6.50)
11.Medallions of beef with woodland mushrooms, buttered carrots, sautéed leeks, fondant potato & a rich port sauce (supplement £12.95)
(v) denotes suitable for vegetarians.
Please speak with your co-ordinator if you have any questions regarding allergies and GM foods.
BANQUETING MENU VEGETARIAN MAIN COURSES
Please choose one vegetarian dish from the selection below to
create your own menu for your guests
1.Leek and pecan nut filo parcel with a tomato & basil sauce served with new potatoes and seasonal vegetables
2.Herb and sun blushed tomato polenta topped with goat’s cheese and roasted vegetables accompanied with new potatoes and served with a red pesto cream
3.Wild mushroom risotto served with a rocket & parmesan salad and garlic bread
4.Roast bell pepper tart tatin with a red pesto cream, seasonal leaves and new potatoes
5.Baked gnocchi in a spinach & mushroom cream sauce with herb oil dressing served with a rocket & parmesan salad and garlic bread
6.Asparagus spears & sun blushed tomato wrapped in filo pastry with a tarragon cream served with seasonal vegetables and potatoes
(v) denotes suitable for vegetarians.
Please speak with your co-ordinator if you have any questions regarding allergies and GM foods.
BANQUETING MENU DESSERTS
Please choose one dessert from the selection below to
create your own menu for your guests
1.Classic lemon tart with raspberry coulis
2.Blueberry cheesecake with crème fraiche
3.Passion fruit delice with berry compote
4.Normandy apple tart with vanilla mascarpone
5.Chocolate truffle torte with crème Anglaise and a chocolate straw
6.Cream filled profiteroles with chocolate sauce
7.White chocolate & champagne torte with raspberry coulis
8.Baileys & white chocolate cheesecake with a coffee Anglaise sauce
9.Pecan and walnut tart with clotted cream and toffee sauce
10.Coffee & Mints
11.CHEESE BOARDS
A collection of mature cheddar, Somerset brie and Stilton cheese served with crisp celery, fresh grapes, crunchy apple and a biscuit selection
Individual - £6.95 Table of 10 - £39.00
Right. The routes are still to be absolutely finalised due to some logistical issues, but the most important thing is the starting point on the Saturday morning!
The starting point is the Chieveley Services at the Junction of the M4 and the A34. The plan is for everyone to meet up at 09:00 for an 09:30 departure.
As ever, PLEASE FILL UP AT THE STARTING POINT.
The route on Saturday is a bit longer than usual, and the route has NOT been planned with any consideration for petrol, the assumption is that you will be starting with a full tank!
More details will follow.
The starting point is the Chieveley Services at the Junction of the M4 and the A34. The plan is for everyone to meet up at 09:00 for an 09:30 departure.
As ever, PLEASE FILL UP AT THE STARTING POINT.
The route on Saturday is a bit longer than usual, and the route has NOT been planned with any consideration for petrol, the assumption is that you will be starting with a full tank!
More details will follow.
Ciao,
Spokey
Spokey
jackal on PH wrote:i love your profile... an endless pornographic paroxysm of the letters BMW
do you actually like driving at all or are cars to you just a manifestation of some sort of pathological mother complex ?
Thank you Spokey,spokey wrote:Right. The routes are still to be absolutely finalised due to some logistical issues, but the most important thing is the starting point on the Saturday morning!
The starting point is the Chieveley Services at the Junction of the M4 and the A34. The plan is for everyone to meet up at 09:00 for an 09:30 departure.
As ever, PLEASE FILL UP AT THE STARTING POINT.
The route on Saturday is a bit longer than usual, and the route has NOT been planned with any consideration for petrol, the assumption is that you will be starting with a full tank!
More details will follow.
my big concern is the lack of people to spearhead the groups, we only have Chris, who has never done this before and am reluctant to leave the responsibility on his shoulders alone, is anyone able to help out with this, any volunteers?
Jet & Spokey,
Well done on getting us this far. Not sure how we need to notify of our meal choices, but here are mine:
Starters: 11 & 12
Mains: 3 & 8
Puddings: 5 & 6
Obviously the wife will want her meal too Just kidding, that is for us both.
I am happy to lead a group if numbers are still short, but will not have the chance to drive the routes beforehand. In addition, my Satnav is not this kind, so my route-planning might be a bit compromised while on the go.
If you need me to make my meal preferences to the hotel rather than here, just let me know.
Thanks again to you both.
Well done on getting us this far. Not sure how we need to notify of our meal choices, but here are mine:
Starters: 11 & 12
Mains: 3 & 8
Puddings: 5 & 6
Obviously the wife will want her meal too Just kidding, that is for us both.
I am happy to lead a group if numbers are still short, but will not have the chance to drive the routes beforehand. In addition, my Satnav is not this kind, so my route-planning might be a bit compromised while on the go.
If you need me to make my meal preferences to the hotel rather than here, just let me know.
Thanks again to you both.
Best regards,
Sam Lever.
Anyone who says money isn't everything hasn't found the right classic car yet.
Z1 - 3.0csl - 987 Boxster - Austin 7 Special - Rolls 20 - '72 911 - '95 318is
Black Sport Evo M3 & SG M3 CSL - now someone else's pleasure
Blue 2800cs - now someone else's pain
Old cars - the original "Not for Profit" organisation
Independent Financial Adviser in Buckingham
My Financial Blog
Sam Lever.
Anyone who says money isn't everything hasn't found the right classic car yet.
Z1 - 3.0csl - 987 Boxster - Austin 7 Special - Rolls 20 - '72 911 - '95 318is
Black Sport Evo M3 & SG M3 CSL - now someone else's pleasure
Blue 2800cs - now someone else's pain
Old cars - the original "Not for Profit" organisation
Independent Financial Adviser in Buckingham
My Financial Blog
Jamal,
Where’s the jerk chicken?? lol
Starters: Chicken Caesar salad topped with shaved parmesan, croutons and Caesar dressing
Main: Roast rump of lamb with creamed potato, green beans and buttered carrots in a Madeira jus
Desert: Baileys & white chocolate cheesecake with a coffee Anglaise sauce.
Cheers M8 and many thanks for everybody’s hard work in Organizing this event.
Spokey, any chance of getting the route for my tomtom? Cheers
Where’s the jerk chicken?? lol
Starters: Chicken Caesar salad topped with shaved parmesan, croutons and Caesar dressing
Main: Roast rump of lamb with creamed potato, green beans and buttered carrots in a Madeira jus
Desert: Baileys & white chocolate cheesecake with a coffee Anglaise sauce.
Cheers M8 and many thanks for everybody’s hard work in Organizing this event.
Spokey, any chance of getting the route for my tomtom? Cheers
Open and close with German style and ingenuity!
- Green Genie
- Sponsor 2018
- Joined: Thu 01 May, 2008 17:29
- Posts: 484
- Location: Hertfordshire
Meal Choices
Hi Jetski
Please find below choices for me and the Mrs:
Starters: 11 & 7
Mains: 5 & 1
Dessert: 6 & 3
Really looking forward to the tour now, hope the weather is going to be kind
GG
Please find below choices for me and the Mrs:
Starters: 11 & 7
Mains: 5 & 1
Dessert: 6 & 3
Really looking forward to the tour now, hope the weather is going to be kind
GG
Im not really sure how this works, talk to Spooky, this is his area of expertise, he said "details to follow"....BBZ149 wrote:Jamal, can we get the route for the SatNav posted somewhere?Jetski wrote:As per 2009 Tour, the planned route only works with TomTom SatNavs, so please try and bring one with you, hire, borrow or steal one if you must, the more the merrier.
If people can DM their email address, I will post out .ITN files for Tomtoms. I will also try and write up manual directions for people with no SatNav but with a co-pilot.
Ciao,
Spokey
Spokey
jackal on PH wrote:i love your profile... an endless pornographic paroxysm of the letters BMW
do you actually like driving at all or are cars to you just a manifestation of some sort of pathological mother complex ?
If you have a Garmin, you MAY be able to convert the .ITN files to something the Garmin can use by fiddling with TYRE. I have NO IDEA how this works, as I've never even seen a Garmin.Jetski wrote:As per 2009 Tour, the planned route only works with TomTom SatNavs, so please try and bring one with you, hire, borrow or steal one if you must, the more the merrier.
If you have a TomTom, you will need to copy the .ITN files into the /itn directory on the TomTom and then go into Itinerary Planning and Load the relevant Route.
Ciao,
Spokey
Spokey
jackal on PH wrote:i love your profile... an endless pornographic paroxysm of the letters BMW
do you actually like driving at all or are cars to you just a manifestation of some sort of pathological mother complex ?
Nice one, Tricky!TrickyZ1 wrote:I'll lead one of the groups in you're short in this department. There's a slim chance I'll be able to drive it before the tour also.
Do you have any days that are good for you to do the test drives? I can take a day off to do it.
Ciao,
Spokey
Spokey
jackal on PH wrote:i love your profile... an endless pornographic paroxysm of the letters BMW
do you actually like driving at all or are cars to you just a manifestation of some sort of pathological mother complex ?
Pretty much any day between now and the tour, I have somespokey wrote:Nice one, Tricky!TrickyZ1 wrote:I'll lead one of the groups in you're short in this department. There's a slim chance I'll be able to drive it before the tour also.
Do you have any days that are good for you to do the test drives? I can take a day off to do it.
time off!
When would suit you Spokey?
Seduced by the zed side
- Racing Tortoise
- Z Register member
- Joined: Mon 07 Nov, 2005 15:53
- Posts: 894
- Location: SW6
I wouldn't have the first clue how to do that. My TomTom has assuredly never been anywhere near a computer and, so far as I am aware, I don't have any cables or whatnot that would help to link it to a computer.spokey wrote:If you have a TomTom, you will need to copy the .ITN files into the /itn directory on the TomTom and then go into Itinerary Planning and Load the relevant Route.
Currently: bereft of Z1
Previously: 1991 Ur-grun Z1 and 1991 Traum-schwartz Z1
Previously: 1991 Ur-grun Z1 and 1991 Traum-schwartz Z1
Talk to MrT, that man has more cables than a Terminator.Racing Tortoise wrote:I wouldn't have the first clue how to do that. My TomTom has assuredly never been anywhere near a computer and, so far as I am aware, I don't have any cables or whatnot that would help to link it to a computer.spokey wrote:If you have a TomTom, you will need to copy the .ITN files into the /itn directory on the TomTom and then go into Itinerary Planning and Load the relevant Route.
- Racing Tortoise
- Z Register member
- Joined: Mon 07 Nov, 2005 15:53
- Posts: 894
- Location: SW6
Pm sent.spokey wrote:If people can DM their email address, I will post out .ITN files for Tomtoms. I will also try and write up manual directions for people with no SatNav but with a co-pilot.
Regards
Ivor
________________
1990 Red Z1 (Gone back to the motherland)
1991 Green Z1 (stolen by the wife)
1990 Red Z1 (Gone back to the motherland)
1991 Green Z1 (stolen by the wife)
- Green Genie
- Sponsor 2018
- Joined: Thu 01 May, 2008 17:29
- Posts: 484
- Location: Hertfordshire
Guess what...I've gotta Garminspokey wrote:If you have a Garmin, you MAY be able to convert the .ITN files to something the Garmin can use by fiddling with TYRE. I have NO IDEA how this works, as I've never even seen a Garmin.Jetski wrote:As per 2009 Tour, the planned route only works with TomTom SatNavs, so please try and bring one with you, hire, borrow or steal one if you must, the more the merrier.
If you have a TomTom, you will need to copy the .ITN files into the /itn directory on the TomTom and then go into Itinerary Planning and Load the relevant Route.
This sounds useful Spokey, I've got a co-pilot (sort of ) PM sent.spokey wrote:I will also try and write up manual directions for people with no SatNav but with a co-pilot.