Having your Toes adjusted.

[Jet]

When was the last time you had a 4 wheel alignment?

The company I used previously setup the rear toe and camber perfectly, or so I thought. They gave me a piece of paper with green coloured boxes, which I took to mean everything was setup correctly. This time was different, the engineer loaded the car with sand, set the steering wheel, I had to remove the side panels, the Hunter system indicated the front camber and caster were not adjustable.

He then went about each stage of Caster, Camber and Toe, in that order, but couldnt achieve a perfect balance, whenever we adjusted Toe, the camber went out and vice versa. Can anyone explain what the correct procedure is? How was your aligned, with or without ballast? Did they remove the side panels for Camber?

This is what a failed breathalyzer test looks like.

[Green Genie]

Hi Jet

All this took place some years ago:

When I stupidly allowed the local tyre fitter to adjust my tracking/alignment it was worse than when it went in! Original problem was tyre wear on the front wheels on the inner edges, so as they were fitting new tyres it seemed a good idea to have this put right.

After adjustment the steering wheel was off centre, and it felt like I was fighting to keep the car in a straight line, so I took the car somewhere else. This time it was better but still not right.

Both garages weren't using Hunter equipment (the BMW equivalent of KDS?) and they didn't adjust the rear wheels (wouldn't have known how to...thank god)

When the car was due its' service, the guys at ML took the car somewhere local to them for the alignment, this place use a system called Supertracker and only the front was adjusted, I assume they felt it wasn't needed for the rear as my problems seemed to have got worse since the first garage did some adjustments.

I don't know if the car was weighted for the alignment, but they did say that after various adjustments the car was taken off the ramps and rolled back/forth and then put back on the ramps to be rechecked and readjusted as needs be. Then finally test driven before given back to me. The cost was about £70.00 at ML (local tyre fitters each one cost about £25) so all in not cheap! Would be even dearer at today's prices as,I said this was a number of years ago.

The car now drives fine...no longer trying to put me into a ditch and the steering wheel is perfectly centred. I would say the Z1 is very sensitive to steering alignment and when it's not right the car feels awful!

I don't know if this is of any help with your problems as you are having the rear wheels done, which means the lower side panels need to be removed.

I think I remember reading Holland Harry saying he has the rear checked/adjusted annually?

Here's a scan of the readings of my car...ok fronts only but how does this compare to your cars readings???

BTW the guy in the pic with your car is he called Jaggs? seen him in BMW car mag.

[TJS]

Correct alignment and balanced wheels / tyres makes a huge difference.

My car was recently set up, results as per GG data above.

Castor

Left 10.29 Right 10.38 both adjusted to 10.20

Camber

Left 0.53 Right 0.41 both adjusted to 0.50

Individual Toe

Left 0.45mm (in) Right 0.97mm (in) both adjusted to 1mm

Total Toe

Left 1.42mm in Right 1.42mm in both adjusted to 2mm in

Set Back

Left 0.0mm Right 0.03mm set to 0.0mm


Rear Wheels

Camber

Left 1.46 neg Right 1.37 neg both set to 1.55 neg

Individual toe

Left 1.03mm in Right 1.37mm in both set to 1.25mm in

Total Toe

Left 2.40mm in Right 2.40mm in both set to 2,50mm in


The system used was a Beissbarth 1813F at £70 plus VAT. The TVR service includes a laser geometry check, however the suspension was designed to be fully adjustable and rectification, if required, is relatively simple.

Not sure how the Z1 rear suspension adjusts ... an agenda item for the Tech Day ?

If you have not had the car checked or you are fitting new tyres a £100 geometry check is a great investment. Assuming your suspension and tyres are in reasonably good shape you really do notice the difference in handling and balance which is what the Z1 is all about.

TJS

[felix]

Green Genie, sorry but I smell a rat. Camber and castor are not adjustable on the Z1 - that both measurements were off to begin with and then both ended up exactly the same left and right seems hard to believe. Unless the car has some trick upper strut mounts. TJS, are your numbers for the Z1 or the TVR?

[TJS]

Felix

The figures and Information is for the Z1, as set up and adjusted by ML. The smell you describe would not surprise me!

The Beisspath was used for the TVR.

TJS

[Green Genie]

Felix

The figures and Information is for the Z1, as set up and adjusted by ML. The smell you describe would not surprise me!

The Beisspath was used for the TVR.

TJS

TJS
Just so I'm clear on this are you saying your car (the Z1) was set up by ML? And that since, you now believe the camber/castor figures they gave you are unreal?/possible? as per Felix's comments and the screen shot that Jet posted from the Hunter machine saying no adjustment possible?

[felix]

I just double checked my Bentley manual for the E30 3 series and can confirm that it states caster is not adjustable and that camber can only be adjusted by changing the strut mount to a different BMW part. So 99.9% sure that any shop that's claiming to having adjusted the camber or caster is telling porkies.

For another set of data see page 15 of http://fred.brossaud.pagesperso-orange. ... z1_eng.pdf

To be fair changing the toe will change the caster and/or camber but only in tiny amounts.

[Jet]

I should have checked a previous thread I posted on Alignment a few years ago, as Michael also commented that front Camber is not adjustable. When I get home, will check and confirm final setup.

http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopi ... =alignment

[Pat Slade]

Hi All

Having read this thread it confirms to me that the car service business is as full as ever with "experts and specialists" who know less than they should, or that we expect. They often seem to be as willing as builders to talk b.....ks!
I know I am a grumpy old sceptic, but it will always be the case that Z1 trusted experts are a rare breed.

Pat

[felix]

I'll bring a set of toe gauges to the tech day. I have a camber/caster gauge as well but that needs a perfectly flat floor to be accurate.

[TJS]

Wise words Pat, as customers we all learn from experience.

Eventually, the lack of integrity demonstrated by "experts", in all fields, leads to them getting found out.

Regards

TJS