to fragile?

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happybeem
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to fragile?

Post by happybeem »

i just read someone's private site that said a Z1 is too fragile to use every day..... just had to ask why????


i'm really liking your Z1's with 18" wheels :D some sexy cars there...

if anyone could answer why they are too fragile to use everyday would be great thanks

adam
tenroom
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Post by tenroom »

Yeah I've read that on F.Brossaud's site (I think) ! Couldn't be more inaccurate, though. It can EASILY cope with daily use. The mechanicals are as docile and reliable as any 3 Series of that era. The bodywork won't rust and the interiors are tough enough if you don't mind the camouflage seats looking like leather eventually and the lemon leather being easy to scuff.

Guess it depends on how "hands on" you wanna be with the upkeep of the car.
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spokey
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Re: to fragile?

Post by spokey »

happybeem wrote:i just read someone's private site that said a Z1 is too fragile to use every day..... just had to ask why????
Bullshit. I would happily use mine all day every day, the only reason I don't is to keep the mileage down so that insurance doesn't kill me.
Ciao,
Spokey
jackal on PH wrote:i love your profile... an endless pornographic paroxysm of the letters BMW

do you actually like driving at all or are cars to you just a manifestation of some sort of pathological mother complex ?
happybeem
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Post by happybeem »

thank for clearing that up, save up some money then find a RHD one,

there is one on the autotrader at the mo which i would buy tomorrow if i had money.... its a conversion.. coz they didn't make RHD, but driving a left hand drive would annoy me...

anyway more to the point thanks for the info, i wasn't that convinced seen as its a BMW i would assume its reliable, well as reliable as it gets for a H reg car

thanks a lot

Adam
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spokey
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Post by spokey »

I'd be very reluctant to buy an RHD Z1 -- I wouldn't trust the conversion process, no matter who had done it. You get used to the LHD easily enough, and it's great fun.
Ciao,
Spokey
jackal on PH wrote:i love your profile... an endless pornographic paroxysm of the letters BMW

do you actually like driving at all or are cars to you just a manifestation of some sort of pathological mother complex ?
F.Brossaud
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Post by F.Brossaud »

Hello,

You're right, that's what I wrote on my personal website.

IMHO, Z1 CAN'T be use as a daily car, at least if you want to keep it in perfect condition ! but it's up to you ...

- electric doors are rather reliable but the more you operate them, the more troubles you might have :roll:

- each time you get inside the car, especially if the top is closed, you might scratch the leather aroud the dashboard or the door sill (I am not sure that's the right english word :oops: ). You can't take time and take care each time if you have to go inside and outside several times a day.

- if you have to park the car downtown or on any parking lot, you will always get some scratches from other cars

- unless you drive it top down as a daily car, driving a z1 with top closed is quite a waste of time compared to the pleasure of driving top and doors down 8-) You would drive in better condition or cheaper on another car. (sorry, I hope you can understand what I mean)

- personally, I had to drive my z1 one complete week few years ago, as a daily car. At the beginning, it's quite funny but not really at the end.
I had no pleasure to drive it to go at work or go to the shopping mall, be scared to get on scratch or dent on the parking lot, scared to make a scratch on leather when I get in an out :?

I thing like any "luxury product", you will probably appreciate it more if you hardly use it :idea:

Frederic
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Phooto
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Post by Phooto »

Now THIS would make a daily driver with 210bhp in a little Z1, I don't care what anyone says!

http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/WWW/dp ... 3195290317
Simon Taylor
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FinerZ1
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Post by FinerZ1 »

I think there are two different school's of thought about using the Z1 as an everyday car.

I personally use mine nearly everyday and sure, living in London, you're bound to get the odd scratch here and there but....who cares!
It seems pointless to me owning a Z1 and not getting out and using it.

I can understand wanting to keep it immaculate in terms of resale value but I can't see myself ever parting with mine! :shock:

Summer's coming so get out there and have some fun with it!!!

ps. I just bought the 18" wheels and they look fantastic! :P

Cheers

Paul
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spokey
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Post by spokey »

F.Brossaud wrote:- electric doors are rather reliable but the more you operate them, the more troubles you might have :roll:

- each time you get inside the car, especially if the top is closed, you might scratch the leather aroud the dashboard or the door sill (I am not sure that's the right english word :oops: ). You can't take time and take care each time if you have to go inside and outside several times a day.

- if you have to park the car downtown or on any parking lot, you will always get some scratches from other cars

- unless you drive it top down as a daily car, driving a z1 with top closed is quite a waste of time compared to the pleasure of driving top and doors down 8-) You would drive in better condition or cheaper on another car. (sorry, I hope you can understand what I mean)

- personally, I had to drive my z1 one complete week few years ago, as a daily car. At the beginning, it's quite funny but not really at the end.
I had no pleasure to drive it to go at work or go to the shopping mall, be scared to get on scratch or dent on the parking lot, scared to make a scratch on leather when I get in an out :?
Frederic, I beg to differ: every car represents a significant financial investment, and those comments apply equally to any car. If you want to keep your Z1 mint, then you wouldn't use it as a daily driver, but the same thing could be said about ANY car.

There is no technical reason why you can't use a Z1 as a daily driver.
Ciao,
Spokey
jackal on PH wrote:i love your profile... an endless pornographic paroxysm of the letters BMW

do you actually like driving at all or are cars to you just a manifestation of some sort of pathological mother complex ?
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Post by spokey »

Phooto wrote:Now THIS would make a daily driver with 210bhp in a little Z1, I don't care what anyone says!
:bawl: :bawl: :bawl: :bawl: :bawl:

I want it and I can't have it!

:bawl: :bawl: :bawl: :bawl: :bawl:
Ciao,
Spokey
jackal on PH wrote:i love your profile... an endless pornographic paroxysm of the letters BMW

do you actually like driving at all or are cars to you just a manifestation of some sort of pathological mother complex ?
tenroom
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Post by tenroom »

Will Hartge still carry out that engine conversion ? Alpina won't do their RLE conversion any more . . . unless you're Jay Kay I suppose :roll:

I understand what Fred means. I use mine pretty much every day but I must admit to being extremely careful where I park often preferring to leave it on double yellow lines outside my favourite haunts and risking a ticket. £50 is cheaper than a new bumper or respray :?

Admittedly my lemon interior is looking worse for wear but I've been running it everyday for 6 years :shock: so it ain't surprising. Having said that, BMW have quoted me at £500 for each new seat - without the green plastic moulding at the back which, apparently is detachable. Not bad !
andyhallas
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My ten pence worth

Post by andyhallas »

I'm in the same boat as Spokey - I would happily use the Z1 every day if it weren't for the fact that I'm on limited mileage insurance. Also, I've found in the past that if I use a 'special' car for my daily commute then it soon starts to feel ordinary which is probably why I've never kept a car for more than 3 years at a time! Hence the Z1 is for high days and holidays.

Having said all this my experience to date suggests that the car is more than robust. As Fred says you would probably cause additional wear and tear on the interior (as you would with any other car) but as its from the old skool of design its all fairly easy to revive and repair as necessary.

If you live out in the sticks then LHD is no problem at all. I took my car back to South London last weekend for a service and found LHD a bit more of a problem in the mean streets of Croydon but elsewhere its a breeze. I was slightly concerned about not having enough visibility for overtaking but the Z1 is so torquey that you don't need particularly big gaps (plus you get better visibility on left hand bends!).

As an aside - I met a chap the other day in Stuttgart who worked on the Z1 program (as a Tier 1 supplier). He was telling me that all the R&D material generated in association with the Z1 project was destroyed by BM when production ended. He said that it is something that many of the engineers in Munich bitterly regret as there are still things they are re-learning off the back of the program. They're a peculiar bunch these OEMs.
tenroom
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Re: My ten pence worth

Post by tenroom »

andyhallas wrote:the Z1 is so torquey that you don't need particularly big gaps
Now there's an adjective I'd never have associated with the Z1. To be honest, I've always found it a bit too sluggish with jack **** happening til 4000rpm and, frankly, I'm not thrashing around Central & West London with my powerplant screaming like that :shock:

An AMD re-chip made a bit of difference but not that much !
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Post by andyhallas »

I guess it depends what you're used to. My daily drive at the moment is a 1.6 Mk2 Golf so I guess it flatters the Z somewhat.

Having said that, the pick up on mine is great for overtaking on national speed limit sections of country type roads (lots of those round Melton - just have to look out for the tractors). True that you have to wind the revs up a bit but my old car was a VVT Celica that didn't move until you were over 5500rpm so I'm used to keeping the revs up when I'm in a 'focused' frame of mind.
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Jet
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Post by Jet »

Use Z1 every day in UK? I agree.....

Except in the rain and im wearing my suit for work, and I know as soon as I open the hatch, the rain will wet my nubuck and leave horrible marks, and my right foot will leave a watery trail on the sills, drip down the door, splash more water on leather, then I catch the dashboard and steering wheel with my size 10s, and im getting wet trying to be careful getting in, and trying to avoid wet patch as I haul my ass into the cockpit...

Apart from that, its great.
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spokey
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Post by spokey »

Jet wrote:Use Z1 every day in UK? I agree.....

Except in the rain and im wearing my suit for work, and I know as soon as I open the hatch, the rain will wet my nubuck and leave horrible marks, and my right foot will leave a watery trail on the sills, drip down the door, splash more water on leather, then I catch the dashboard and steering wheel with my size 10s, and im getting wet trying to be careful getting in, and trying to avoid wet patch as I haul my ass into the cockpit...

Apart from that, its great.
Only if you care what your car looks like will that bother you. :wink: Just ask the Lakes degenerates. :D
Ciao,
Spokey
jackal on PH wrote:i love your profile... an endless pornographic paroxysm of the letters BMW

do you actually like driving at all or are cars to you just a manifestation of some sort of pathological mother complex ?
Neil
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I agree Phooto- I bought it!

Post by Neil »

I'd just like to say hello to my fellow anoraks. I bought it (Z1, of ocurse - the one that Phooto was talking about)a few weeks ago and just got it on the road last Thursday. I have known ( a fair bit) about Z1's for years and dreamt of owning one. But this is my first time in the real world.

So far so good.

I live close to Cambridge, so can meet up with any local boyos.

PS - I have no power to the stereo - a non-standard item, can anyone tell me what fuse no. it is?

Having read some more messages - I thought I would add to this post:

I will be using the Z1 daily, I had a TVR S2 a few years ago that I used daily for about a year. That is lot more fragile than the Z1! And a lot more noisy with the roff up and windy with the roof down. I comute to work weekly (Drive down on A Sunday night, drive back on a Friday evening) - about 150 miles each way. The TVR was not much fun to cruise at above 70 - wind roar just got irritating. The Z1's top-down refinement and high speed stability makes it (relatively) easy for 1** mph cruising. If it's not raining, the roof will be down. I'm stocking up on woolly hats...

The S2 and the Z1 (210 bhp version) have about the same power to weight ratio, the Z1 does not seem to feel as fast in accelaration terms as the S2, but when I look at the speedo it most certainly is! In fact, I think it's overtaking times are better than the S2, unless you stay in the tall fifth gear.

About the gearing, I have heard many complaints about it being too tall for a sports roadster. Personally it fits my driving style perfectly, if I am in teh mood for some fun, I stir the gear box. If I want to get from A to B in a relatively quick manner, I like to do so without forcing my cars to use high revs for hours one end. Am I the only one like this?

The Hartge engine conversion cost (plus a few other bits) 5,800 quid in '98. The main buts were a longer throw crank, to take it to 2.7L and a wilder cam. The result should mean better mid-range torque, but what would I know? I've not driven a standard one. A company called Birds fitted the Hartge conversion, they are at:


http://www.birds.uk.com/

...and still have some info on Z1 stuff they do, see below:


OPTIONS AVAILABLE FOR: BMW, Z1 (E30)

Engine H27 210hp AT Engine +N
Application : ECE LHD 9/87->
Installation cost : £1,651.35
Parts cost : £3,861.24

You know, I love the way the car feels more stable the faster you go.....
Last edited by Neil on Sun 09 Oct, 2005 10:48, edited 1 time in total.
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spokey
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Re: I agree Phooto- I bought it!

Post by spokey »

Neil wrote:I'd just like to say hello to my fellow anoraks. I bought it (Z1, of ocurse - the one that Phooto was talking about)a few weeks ago and just got it on the road last Thursday. I have known ( a fair bit) about Z1's for years and dreamt of owning one. But this is my first time in the real world.

So far so good.

I live close to Cambridge, so can meet up with any local boyos.

PS - I have no power to the stereo - a non-standard item, can anyone tell me what fuse no. it is?
Did you buy the Hartge? :head: Jammy git -- you HAVE to meet up some time and take me for a drive -- that's an ORDER! :lol:

When would you like to get together? My Z1's tyres are a bit knackered after the 'ring, but I definitely have a mini BoH cruise left in them. :mrgreen:
Ciao,
Spokey
jackal on PH wrote:i love your profile... an endless pornographic paroxysm of the letters BMW

do you actually like driving at all or are cars to you just a manifestation of some sort of pathological mother complex ?
Neil
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Re: I agree Phooto- I bought it!

Post by Neil »

spokey wrote:
Neil wrote:I'd just like to say hello to my fellow anoraks. I bought it (Z1, of ocurse - the one that Phooto was talking about)a few weeks ago and just got it on the road last Thursday. I have known ( a fair bit) about Z1's for years and dreamt of owning one. But this is my first time in the real world.

So far so good.

I live close to Cambridge, so can meet up with any local boyos.

PS - I have no power to the stereo - a non-standard item, can anyone tell me what fuse no. it is?
Did you buy the Hartge? :head: Jammy git -- you HAVE to meet up some time and take me for a drive -- that's an ORDER! :lol:

When would you like to get together? My Z1's tyres are a bit knackered after the 'ring, but I definitely have a mini BoH cruise left in them. :mrgreen:
Nice one Spokey, I can't be sure exactly but could be good for next weekend or the one after. I have added some info. to my original post, if you haven't already read it.
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Post by spokey »

Yeah, any time -- I'll be happy to show you a stock Z1 so you can compare. :wink:

I'm so distraught that I can't do the Hartge conversion without invalidating my warranty, though. :(
Ciao,
Spokey
jackal on PH wrote:i love your profile... an endless pornographic paroxysm of the letters BMW

do you actually like driving at all or are cars to you just a manifestation of some sort of pathological mother complex ?
Neil
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Post by Neil »

I'll get back to you when I know for sure when I'm going to be around.

Any body else out there know about the radio fuse, I lookled for ine just being burnt out but no joy.
G.Holloway
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Post by G.Holloway »

Depend on age of stereo, there is fuse inside a little "white" POD behind stereo. It is part of power lead.
Ian W
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Post by Ian W »

Hi guys, just caught up on this topic and couldn't help throwing in my ten penneth. :roll:

Cars are for driving, better cars more so! Personally, I use my Z1 whenever I can find the excuse. Yes, of course this will increase the wear and tear but I have to admit that the blat along the B roads into work is the only thing that can put a smile on my face on a dreary Monday morning. :wink: I guess it's a balance thing and for me the balance is 'do I want to enjoy the journey or is it just about getting there?'

Perhaps this goes against the purists but my Z1 has had the Griffin Motorsport conversion to rhd with the engine upgrade. Clearly I'm biased but I reckon they did a damn fine job. With a few other mods including filters, BTB full system/manifold, chipped uk's assistance and 18' wheels, I honestly reckon the car is closer to what it should have always been. Many a time this car has embarrassed far more exotic and expensive machinery.......... now if I can just save the pennies to try a supercharger! :twisted:
Neil
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Post by Neil »

I agree, I have just done a 3 day road trip from Basingstoke to Manchester, back down to London and use my car to go to and from work. I stay at work during the week and go home for the weekends - 150 miles each way. So, I think my miles will be going up pretty quick.

The trip up to Manchester was done in torrential rain :head: - no leaks from the hood at all! :mrgreen: I'm not used to this as on old TVR driver.

The trip back down the next day to London was done in the sun - hood down of course. What a blast!

Driving up Fulham road was fun too, and Knightsbridge. 8-)

Finished the night off dancing with a catwalk model - and me being ugly and short too! :shock:

The car is not massively quick with 210 bhp but it is fast enough for good fun. :wink:
senna
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Z1 as daily driver

Post by senna »

The gear box and transaxle are SPECIFIC to the Z1, and the transaxle can not be bought any more.
The engine is not the usual M20 lump, but from a 325 ix (check the dip stick position).

Otherwise the decision is yours to drive the car every day. Just be aware that not all the parts are available any more and if you have a crash that affects the plastic floorpan then the car will become a parts donor like the one here:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BMW-Z1-SALVAGE-DA ... dZViewItem

This car can never be repaired.
felix
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Post by felix »

According to realoem the gearbox is shared with quite a number of E30 variants.

And I think the only thing somewhat unique about the diff is the rear cover plate; the rest is common with a number of 6 cylinder cars of that age.
senna
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Post by senna »

The Gearbox is different because it has a Torque Tube running off it and not a Prop (unlike E30's) The Diff IS the Same as an E30, and hence it can be replaced for an M-Tec LSD.
I have removed the Torque tube before, and it is not easy, it is also not in production.

The Gear box made by Getrang is also the weak link of the car, it is not close ratio, and can't take much Torque.

A German Z1 converted with an E46 M3 engine needed a custom gearbox made by ZF, to cope with the output.

I am in the process of replacing my engine with an M50 lump as the M20 engine is archaic. To increase the power would be too much effort for too little output.

Quite happy to help any one else with the conversion once I am done with mine.
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Post by ///M_aniac »

RE everyday use - Yuk! :shock:
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senna
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Post by senna »

This is what happens when you use a Z1 every day!!
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Post by antmez »

a car is to be enjoyed , why have it and not drive it ???????????????
sfh3l
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Post by sfh3l »

Senna, Id be very interested to hear the outcome of the M50 swap - thses are plentiful and easy to get hold of. I'm guessing you're thinking about the E36 328i with a better inlet manifold. That way, should be good for an easy 225bhp?
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felix
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Post by felix »

I second that. As much as I enjoy the Z1 it could easily do with some more urge. It would be nice to have some more torque.

I had a 87 325is in the late 80's; that car had power oversteer without much trouble due to 195 65/14 tyres, the E30 rear suspension and the LSD. The Z1 is boring in that respect; too much grip! :wink:
pierrez1
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Post by pierrez1 »

My opinion:

Just let the Z1 original with the M20 engine, If you want more power save the money for a ///M roadster, that's what I did :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

You can never get this power in a Z1, it wil tear it apart and IMHO decreases its value :x

The Z1 is IMHO not very suitable for every day use with its delicate interior :roll: It is a real collector's car to grow old with. Mine does 3000 km a year.
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Post by Racing Tortoise »

I don't know. Maybe. Mine's been retrimmed in black leather anyway which I prefer massively since I can't abide the camouflage sections or the alcantara. So the interior isn't that fragile.

I found mine worked perfectly well being used as an everyday machine provided it is properly cared for. I agree that I don't see a need to tune it overly but each to their own.
Currently: bereft of Z1
Previously: 1991 Ur-grun Z1 and 1991 Traum-schwartz Z1
senna
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Post by senna »

sfh3l EXCELLENT NAME, he deserves to do well.

I can't wait to put an M50 engine in mine. But I am looking for a 528i or 328i crashed and complete to do the swap, as I want to hear it running and "hold" the loom my self. I think it will be easier that way.

My friend wants to put a 3.0l M3 engine in his if I am successful.

As for the originality of the car, I don't mind if it has a different engine, so many Z1's are original that it doesn't really matter.

What is original anyway?

Many yellow interiors have been re trimmed.

Many have got LSD's or twin exhausts.

I just want a new lump in mine. I drive it every day, and hate being given a hard time by Golf TDi's.

I will post the pics on the site as it happens.
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Jet
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Post by Jet »

This topic has certainly generated more interest and replies than most.

I can see both sides, yes it can be used everyday, if you accept the higher maintence costs, mileage, risk of accidental damage, and depreciation in value.
But in reality, it is not practical to use everyday, as the term "practical" generally refers to cars :

Resistance to damage through constant use
Quality of build
Occupancy and passengers
Leg room
Maintenance costs
Storage space
Size of family etc

IMHO, the Z1 fails most of these requirements, which is why my main car is a £700 Fiat Punto! So everyday use is not for me.

But as TeaTray said - Each to their own.
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Post by BBZ149 »

Has to be used if not p@ssing down with rain. Drive mine to the to of the road to buy fags, but take a 10 mile diversion every time lol.

But not practical as an only car, im lucky I have use of another car.
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Post by F.Brossaud »

Jet wrote:Resistance to damage through constant use
Quality of build
Yes, that's the most negative points for me.
But I disagree about maintenance cost that are not more expensive compared to a 15 years old 325i E30 (except for exhaust system and doors belts, but that's one time every 5 or 10 years !)
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Racing Tortoise
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Post by Racing Tortoise »

Mine even coped with a spot of light dirt track work the other day. I drove to the Isle of Islay in it for Easter with my mother's family who live in an isolated farmhouse up a four mile dirt track.

I did go very slowly on the three times I had to go up and down it, but the car never bottomed out or scraped on anything. Looked great covered in mud too but to be on the safe side I had it thoroughly valeted and greased when I got back to London.
Currently: bereft of Z1
Previously: 1991 Ur-grun Z1 and 1991 Traum-schwartz Z1
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spokey
Joined: Fri 20 Feb, 2004 11:11
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Location: The Big Smoke

Post by spokey »

RacingTeatray wrote:Looked great covered in mud too but to be on the safe side I had it thoroughly valeted and greased when I got back to London.
And the car... :?:
Ciao,
Spokey
jackal on PH wrote:i love your profile... an endless pornographic paroxysm of the letters BMW

do you actually like driving at all or are cars to you just a manifestation of some sort of pathological mother complex ?
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Racing Tortoise
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Joined: Mon 07 Nov, 2005 15:53
Posts: 894

  Z1 roadster
Location: SW6

Post by Racing Tortoise »

spokey wrote:
RacingTeatray wrote:Looked great covered in mud too but to be on the safe side I had it thoroughly valeted and greased when I got back to London.
And the car... :?:
And what exactly did you think I was referring to...if not the car?

Evidence (actually it looks relatively clean here):

Image
Currently: bereft of Z1
Previously: 1991 Ur-grun Z1 and 1991 Traum-schwartz Z1
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