E36 steering rack

felix · Post by **felix** » Tue 28 Feb, 2006 18:27

My 89 Z1 seems to have excess play in the steering rack; I've checked the universal joint and it's OK. It very much seems to be gear lash between the rack and pinion. I can't find any signs of a way to adjust the preload and even if I could I suspect it would bind when off-centre. So it looks like time for a new rack.

I've seen posts in various forums that E36 racks fit into E30's with little trouble and go from 4 turns lock to lock down to 3.2, 3.0 or even 2.8 depending upon the exact rack.

Has anyone done this swap? Finding a LHD E36 rack in the UK will be a challenge but that's another matter.

tenroom · Post by **tenroom** » Wed 24 May, 2006 14:22

Did you ever have any joy with the steering rack ?

felix · Post by **felix** » Wed 24 May, 2006 15:07

No, I haven't done anything about it yet. It's not an MOT failure, just a minor annoyance. Will look for an E36 rack in Germany at some point.

Jet · Post by **Jet** » Sat 12 Jan, 2008 19:24

Felix,

did you ever solve your Rack problem? I am getting a slight wobble on the steering wheel at 50mph, jacked it up and by shaking the OS front wheel there is a knock vibration, a bit like when your joints make a sudden cracking sound, not major, and it is not happening on the NS front, so I suspect Rack wear.

Anyone else have any idea on prices, sourcing a replacement, or local Rack specialists anywhere I can consult?

Rgds

Jetleon

pierrez1 · Post by **pierrez1** » Sat 12 Jan, 2008 19:43

I saw some guys at a meeting last year who did the switch with an M3 3.0 steering rack, this should be the most direkt one.

New one's cost about 1000 euro

felix · Post by **felix** » Sun 13 Jan, 2008 15:44

Jet wrote:did you ever solve your Rack problem? I am getting a slight wobble on the steering wheel at 50mph, jacked it up and by shaking the OS front wheel there is a knock vibration, a bit like when your joints make a sudden cracking sound, not major, and it is not happening on the NS front, so I suspect Rack wear.

Hiya Jet,

I've got a E36 rack and most of the odd and ends I need but have yet to fit it; basically waiting for better weather.

I would have thought that if the problem is in the rack you would notice it equally on both sides of the car. A vibration at 50 mph suggests a wheel balance problem to me that's showing up another issue. Wheel bearing? Track rod end?

Felix

Jet · Post by **Jet** » Sun 13 Jan, 2008 23:27

pierrez1 wrote:I saw some guys at a meeting last year who did the switch with an M3 3.0 steering rack, this should be the most direkt one. New one's cost about 1000 euro

Greetings Pierre,

Do you have any further details, is this documented anywhere? It is pointless me asking any of the dealers in London,as nobody would have tried this.

Thanks

Jet

Jet · Post by **Jet** » Sun 13 Jan, 2008 23:42

felix wrote:
Jet wrote:did you ever solve your Rack problem? I am getting a slight wobble on the steering wheel at 50mph, jacked it up and by shaking the OS front wheel there is a knock vibration, a bit like when your joints make a sudden cracking sound, not major, and it is not happening on the NS front, so I suspect Rack wear.
Hiya Jet,

I've got a E36 rack and most of the odd and ends I need but have yet to fit it; basically waiting for better weather.

ve thought that if the problem is in the rack you would notice it equally on both sides of the car. A vibration at 50 mph suggests a wheel balance problem to me that's showing up another issue. Wheel bearing? Track rod end?

Felix

Hi Felix, thanks for responding, I have tried balancing but no difference, checked the alloys for any sign of buckling also.
There is a bar under the car, one on both sides, but the OS one vibrates when the wheel is shaken, but is rock solid on the NS. The wheel also appears "loose" when you shake it, there is a "groaning" noise when I turn the wheel on full lock, I believe it is "steering" related.

So you are convinced the E36 LHD rack is a straight swap? If so, then the E36 M3 will also work. I guess there is an advantage to having the M3 version, something to do with Ratio I think?

Thx

Jet

spokey · Post by **spokey** » Mon 14 Jan, 2008 00:35

I'm getting so many naughty ideas from people in this section!

Jet · Post by **Jet** » Mon 14 Jan, 2008 08:25

Pervert!

felix · Post by **felix** » Mon 14 Jan, 2008 15:34

From memory there are ball and socket joints at the inner ends of the track rods; perhaps one of these is worn. Are your rack boots in good shape? I would have thought that if the rack was worn you would get the same play equally on both sides. What happens when you turn the wheel one turn left or right; does that change the amount of play? Not sure about the groaning but that sounds more hydraulic than mechanical. Fluid level OK?

The rack swap is documented here, amoung other places: http://www.e30tech.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 6+steering

Note the lock to lock turns they quote are for US spec racks; European cars *may* have different racks. While the E36 M3 rack is slightly quicker than a standard E36 rack the 25% reduction as compared to the E30 rack was good enough for me.

Felix

Jet wrote:Hi Felix, thanks for responding, I have tried balancing but no difference, checked the alloys for any sign of buckling also.
There is a bar under the car, one on both sides, but the OS one vibrates when the wheel is shaken, but is rock solid on the NS. The wheel also appears "loose" when you shake it, there is a "groaning" noise when I turn the wheel on full lock, I believe it is "steering" related.

So you are convinced the E36 LHD rack is a straight swap? If so, then the E36 M3 will also work. I guess there is an advantage to having the M3 version, something to do with Ratio I think?

Thx

Jet

spokey · Post by **spokey** » Mon 14 Jan, 2008 15:38

felix wrote:The rack swap is documented here, amoung other places: http://www.e30tech.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 6+steering

Linky no worky

felix · Post by **felix** » Mon 14 Jan, 2008 17:34

new linky should worky

http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21391

Jet · Post by **Jet** » Mon 14 Jan, 2008 18:41

Hi Felix,

sorry to drag on about this, but I took the car in for a checkup and the trainee bloke said it is coming from the end of the "steering arm" (thats the bar I was referring to) there is a ball joint under a gaitor, attached to the steering arm, and thats the problem, make sense?

Rgds

Jet

felix · Post by **felix** » Mon 14 Jan, 2008 19:13

Hi Jet,

No worries about dragging on - you're not!

Sounds like #4 in http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do ... g=32&fg=25 The ball joint is at the inner end of each steering arm

regards,

Felix

Jet · Post by **Jet** » Mon 14 Jan, 2008 20:51

Glad this all makes sense to you.
While im down there, I guess its worth replacing all the other ball joints and gaitors and stuff.

Much appreciated Felix, Pierre.

Rgds

Jet

pierrez1 · Post by **pierrez1** » Thu 17 Jan, 2008 21:34

Good luck fixing it, I read it at the same forum Felix referres to. As said a few germans have the 3.0 in their zettie's and are very pleased with it

senna · Post by **senna** » Mon 14 Jun, 2010 12:21

felix wrote:Has anyone done this swap? Finding a LHD E36 rack in the UK will be a challenge but that's another matter.

I have:

The E30 M3 rack is thought to be better ( in photo the E30 M3 has a "pipe" shaft as opposed to cast). It needs some modification to the back of the Power steering pump.

fig 1: difference between Z1 and E30 M3 rack.

felix · Post by **felix** » Mon 14 Jun, 2010 12:48

Standard E30 is 4 turns lock to lock, E30 M3 is 3.5 and standard E36 racks are 3. Besides, not sure I can afford any of the spares you're selling.

senna · Post by **senna** » Mon 14 Jun, 2010 13:09

felix wrote:Besides, not sure I can afford any of the spares you're selling.

Thank God

If you can't afford them from me then try BMW

Mad Max · Post by **Mad Max** » Mon 14 Jun, 2010 14:34

The tightest e36 rack is the 1.9 Z3.

Another one you can fit that is only slightly slower is the e46 compact rack.

The 3.0 M3 is a variable rate, which is not the best for driving hard.

The 3.2 M3 has the same rack as the rest of the e36 range.

I can't believe so many people are fitting the 3.0 M3 rack and finding improvements...?

senna · Post by **senna** » Mon 14 Jun, 2010 16:37

Mad Max wrote:The tightest e36 rack is the 1.9 Z3.

Another one you can fit that is only slightly slower is the e46 compact rack.

The 3.0 M3 is a variable rate, which is not the best for driving hard.

The 3.2 M3 has the same rack as the rest of the e36 range.

I can't believe so many people are fitting the 3.0 M3 rack and finding improvements...?

I agree the 3.0 M3 rack is not meant to be very good and I have dismantled a few. The 1.9 Z3 is hard to come by but not impossible, as is the E46.
I am not too sure about the latter racks but apparently the pipe work connectors differ than a direct E30/Z1 replacement. Not a big deal but the E30 M3 rack goes in with little issue, and it comes from an iconic BMW

You can get racks down to 2 turns from lock to lock

not sure how stable that would be at speed.

apollo · Post by **apollo** » Mon 14 Jun, 2010 17:19

I have the E36 rack on my Z1(S52) and its fine.

Felix by the time you pay postage for a LHD rack from Germany Senna's rack will seem quite cheap. Also these all seem reasonable until you start an engine conversion.

Anyway i just paid £3200 for a clutch and slave for my lambo and it only lasts 5000 miles.

senna · Post by **senna** » Mon 14 Jun, 2010 17:48

apollo wrote:I have the E36 rack on my Z1(S52) and its fine.

Felix by the time you pay postage for a LHD rack from Germany Senna's rack will seem quite cheap. Also these all seem reasonable until you start an engine conversion.

Anyway i just paid £3200 for a clutch and slave for my lambo and it only lasts 5000 miles.

God! you are beginning to sound as tight as one of these

apollo · Post by **apollo** » Mon 14 Jun, 2010 17:48

And thats water tight!!!!!!!!!!!

BBZ149 · Post by **BBZ149** » Mon 14 Jun, 2010 20:55

apollo wrote:Anyway i just paid £3200 for a clutch and slave for my lambo and it only lasts 5000 miles.

Freaking ell

Holland Harry · Post by **Holland Harry** » Tue 15 Jun, 2010 09:34

Franz Schaffer fitted a steering rack from a E30 325ix Swiss version in my car. Only three turns from lock to lock. No problems with the fitting and the car feels very direct and alive. No death point/feeling in the middle of the steering when going straight ahead. It wasn't cheap though!

senna · Post by **senna** » Tue 15 Jun, 2010 13:00

Holland Harry wrote:Franz Schaffer fitted a steering rack from a E30 325ix Swiss version in my car. Only three turns from lock to lock. No problems with the fitting and the car feels very direct and alive. No death point/feeling in the middle of the steering when going straight ahead. It wasn't cheap though!

Well done! nice conversion.
You paid a price because the person that did the work is a trusted Z1 specialist who knows what he is talking about.

From what I have seen he is worth it and you don't want your coal turning into diamonds

felix · Post by **felix** » Tue 15 Jun, 2010 13:33

Holland Harry wrote:Franz Schaffer fitted a steering rack from a E30 325ix Swiss version in my car. Only three turns from lock to lock. No problems with the fitting and the car feels very direct and alive. No death point/feeling in the middle of the steering when going straight ahead. It wasn't cheap though!

I suspect you meant to say the differential was from a 325ix - the 325ix steering rack is quite unique and not a swap for a standard E30 rack. And besides it's the same ratio as the standard E30 rack. Your quicker rack is from either an E30 M3 or an E36?

Holland Harry · Post by **Holland Harry** » Tue 15 Jun, 2010 15:06

felix wrote:
Holland Harry wrote:Franz Schaffer fitted a steering rack from a E30 325ix Swiss version in my car. Only three turns from lock to lock. No problems with the fitting and the car feels very direct and alive. No death point/feeling in the middle of the steering when going straight ahead. It wasn't cheap though!
I suspect you meant to say the differential was from a 325ix - the 325ix steering rack is quite unique and not a swap for a standard E30 rack. And besides it's the same ratio as the standard E30 rack. Your quicker rack is from either an E30 M3 or an E36?

Sorry Felix,

you suspected it wrong! The steering rack is from a 325ix Swiss version. That is a different version that the standard 325i or ix rack. And indeed this fits without a problem in the Z1. Because of the mountains and it's many sharp curves and turns, the Swiss got an other rack than the normal 325ix. This rack is fitted in my Zed and you can buy or order this steeringrack for your Z1 at Franz Schaffer's company.He seems also the only one who can get these racks straight from the manufacturer. BMW doesn't have them anymore.

To see for yourself got to www.kfz-schaffer.de see under BMW Z1 shop than go to Z1 High-Performance and look under topic HP-lenkgetriebe!

Regards,

HH

felix · Post by **felix** » Tue 15 Jun, 2010 16:01

Holland Harry wrote: Because of the mountains and it's many sharp curves and turns...

Holland Harry wrote:To see for yourself got to www.kfz-schaffer.de see under BMW Z1 shop than go to Z1 High-Performance and look under topic HP-lenkgetriebe!

I don't doubt the rack is from Franz and is quicker but no mention of it coming from a 325ix.

felix · Post by **felix** » Tue 15 Jun, 2010 16:26

Top photo is Senna's standard E30 (bottom) and E30 M3 (top) rack comparison.

Bottom photo is an E36 rack (top) and E30 325ix rack (bottom). If you can visualise the E36 rack swapped round you can see that the mounting points are the same as those of the racks in Senna's photo. But the 325ix rack is quite different; the mounting points are on the other side of the rack. To fit that into a standard car would require a lot of fabrication or changing the steering geometry which make little sense when the E36 rack is almost a drop-in fit.

senna · Post by **senna** » Tue 15 Jun, 2010 16:40

felix wrote:Top photo is Senna's standard E30 (top) and E30 M3 (bottom) rack comparison.

Bottom photo is an E36 rack (top) and E30 325ix rack (bottom). If you can visualise the E36 rack swapped round you can see that the mounting points are the same as those of the racks in Senna's photo. But the 325ix rack is quite different; the mounting points are on the other side of the rack. To fit that into a standard car would require a lot of fabrication or changing the steering geometry which make little sense when the E36 rack is almost a drop-in fit.

I wrote the tube rack is the E30 M3 rack. i.e the top gold coloured rack is from an M3. If you ever see one for sale it will be a tube and expect to pay alot of money.
To the best of my knowledge (and I am not a mechanic or an E30 meister) the only BMW rack that is tubed not cast is the E30 M3 and the 325ix. All others are cast.

I also have photos of the E30 M3 rack on the car to prove it is on OK but I spilt some oil during the service (OIL FILTER

) so I refuse to post them

felix · Post by **felix** » Tue 15 Jun, 2010 17:03

senna wrote:
I wrote the tube rack is the E30 M3 rack. i.e the top gold coloured rack is from an M3.

Thanks - have corrected my post.

Holland Harry · Post by **Holland Harry** » Tue 15 Jun, 2010 20:28

felix wrote:
Holland Harry wrote: Because of the mountains and it's many sharp curves and turns...

Holland Harry wrote:To see for yourself got to www.kfz-schaffer.de see under BMW Z1 shop than go to Z1 High-Performance and look under topic HP-lenkgetriebe!
I don't doubt the rack is from Franz and is quicker but no mention of it coming from a 325ix.

Hi Felix,

Understandbly there is no mention of the type of rack! The master will never tell his tricks! Otherwise all you guys will try to order it at BMW or the manufacturer, which is not possible by the way. But it really is a 325ix rack but as i already said it is a Swiss version which is totally different to the standard 325ix rack. I will try to get a pick of the rack I have!

Thanks for the different pics to show the difference between the racks.

HH

Holland Harry · Post by **Holland Harry** » Tue 15 Jun, 2010 20:56

Sorry Felix but I cannot find a picture of my rack. But if you look on Franz his site you see a pic of the rack I have and I looks pretty similar to the pic of the 325ix pic you posted.

So I must be it, but how Franz is fitting the rack i don't know off course!

I will ask the man myself tomorrow to solve the puzzle.

senna · Post by **senna** » Tue 15 Jun, 2010 22:19

Holland Harry wrote:
felix wrote:
Holland Harry wrote: Because of the mountains and it's many sharp curves and turns...

Holland Harry wrote:To see for yourself got to www.kfz-schaffer.de see under BMW Z1 shop than go to Z1 High-Performance and look under topic HP-lenkgetriebe!
I don't doubt the rack is from Franz and is quicker but no mention of it coming from a 325ix.
Hi Felix,

Understandbly there is no mention of the type of rack! The master will never tell his tricks!
HH

I like the sound of this guy

felix · Post by **felix** » Tue 15 Jun, 2010 23:14

Holland Harry wrote:But if you look on Franz his site you see a pic of the rack I have and I looks pretty similar to the pic of the 325ix pic you posted.

Actually, if you look at that pseudo picture you can see that the mounting points are on the side of the rack the the pinion emerges from - the 325ix rack has the mounting points on the other side. Will be most interested in what Franz says.

Holland Harry · Post by **Holland Harry** » Wed 16 Jun, 2010 08:52

Well Felix you were right I was wrong!

The rack I have in the car is not a E30 325ix rack but the rack is a brandnew E36 M3 3.0l rack which is upgraded by the manufacturer ZF and made tailorfit for the Z1. Also the differential is different to the normal E36 M3 3.0l. That way is seems to be even better than the standard E36 rack. So it's not a normal of the shelves rack from BMW.

D@mm how did the 325ix story get in my head!

This is when a non technical guy is trying to talking along with you technical freaks.

felix · Post by **felix** » Wed 16 Jun, 2010 09:02

Hi Harry,

Thanks for posting back. Regardless of all the above I think you have one of the best Z1s here - great colour and upgrades very much in keeping with what the Z1 is all about.

Felix

apollo · Post by **apollo** » Wed 16 Jun, 2010 10:26

Hey Harry was it ix or sex you had on your mind

VolkerZ1 · Post by **VolkerZ1** » Wed 16 Jun, 2010 11:26

This is my steering gear from the 3.0L E36.
Franz sold me this.
Works great.

Greetings Volker

Holland Harry · Post by **Holland Harry** » Wed 16 Jun, 2010 13:17

apollo wrote:Hey Harry was it ix or sex you had on your mind

The same as you mate! Always the last one!!

Mad Max · Post by **Mad Max** » Wed 16 Jun, 2010 16:38

senna wrote:You can get racks down to 2 turns from lock to lock not sure how stable that would be at speed.

That's pretty much it. I've left the stock rack on my e36 M3 3.0 because it doesn't need a tighter rack for track work. 90-degrees on the wheel will take almost any corner.

I've got a 1.9 Z3 sat on my front lawn, I have condidered removing the rack but I don't really think a track car requires that tight a rack.

If I was to have to replace the M3's rack I would probably go for a standard e36 rack, purely because if you loose the back end the variable rate on the M3's rack isn't the best for it, you don't stand much chance of catching it.

A lot of people just see "M3" and presume it's an upgrade.

senna · Post by **senna** » Wed 16 Jun, 2010 19:20

Mad Max wrote:
senna wrote:You can get racks down to 2 turns from lock to lock not sure how stable that would be at speed.
That's pretty much it. I've left the stock rack on my e36 M3 3.0 because it doesn't need a tighter rack for track work. 90-degrees on the wheel will take almost any corner.

I've got a 1.9 Z3 sat on my front lawn, I have condidered removing the rack but I don't really think a track car requires that tight a rack.

If I was to have to replace the M3's rack I would probably go for a standard e36 rack, purely because if you loose the back end the variable rate on the M3's rack isn't the best for it, you don't stand much chance of catching it.

A lot of people just see "M3" and presume it's an upgrade.

Precisely the reason I chose the E30 M3 rack. It is tight/direct/heavy enough with the steering wheel/tyres I have and with the M20 engine there are no pipe modifications.
I can't comment about an E36 rack with an M20 engine as I have always coupled them to S5x engines. All i know is that the pipes are in different positions.
Would I fit a LHD Z3 1.9 rack or E46CS? May be 1) if I could find one 2) if the rack needed to be changed.
Otherwise the E30 M3 stuff I have lying around will get used up first.

benslick · Post by **benslick** » Wed 16 Jun, 2010 20:19

Senna,

Whar rack do you think I should use for my Z1 ????

senna · Post by **senna** » Wed 16 Jun, 2010 20:29

benslick wrote:Senna,

Whar rack do you think I should use for my Z1 ????

Honestly... the E30 M3.

felix · Post by **felix** » Thu 17 Jun, 2010 01:49

benslick wrote:Senna,

Whar rack do you think I should use for my Z1 ????

Which ever one he's selling!

senna · Post by **senna** » Thu 17 Jun, 2010 06:48

felix wrote:
benslick wrote:Senna,

Whar rack do you think I should use for my Z1 ????
Which ever one he's selling!

You would not buy one, as I can't give them away

p.s Ben I don't have any good ones for sale at the moment

Jet · Post by **Jet** » Thu 17 Jun, 2010 07:56

senna wrote:
felix wrote:
benslick wrote:Senna,

Whar rack do you think I should use for my Z1 ????
Which ever one he's selling!
You would not buy one, as I can't give them away

p.s Ben I don't have any good ones for sale at the moment

Senna whats the reserve price on the std rack on ebay?

zroadster.net

E36 steering rack

E36 steering rack

Re: E36 steering rack

Hi Senna

Re: Hi Senna

Re: Hi Senna

Re: Hi Senna

Re: Hi Senna