Hi all,
first, as topic really, are they hydraulic tappets on the 2.8 (98) engine? - I have a ticking noise coming from mine that sounds like a tappet.
Second, what grade oil should be used in a 97000 mile 2.8? - sorry if this is covered elsewhere its something that might relate to the above...
cheers all!
2.8 Hydraulic tappets? and what grade oil?
2.8 Hydraulic tappets? and what grade oil?
'98 Z3 2.8 Nottingham
If it moves and it shouldn't, use Gaffa Tape, if it doesn't move but it should, use WD40...
If it moves and it shouldn't, use Gaffa Tape, if it doesn't move but it should, use WD40...
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Guest
Oil
The 2.8 is not critical about oil types - I use Fuchs Titan 10-40 full synthetic from Opie Oils, and change it twice a year at about 8000 mile intervals.
If you want the oil to last for up to 20,000 miles or whatever the SI lights tell you, use a Long Life oils such as Castrol Edge 0-30 or similar, particularly if your driving is mainly short slow running.
Have a look in the owners handbook - it's full of useful info.
A clicky hydraulic tappet is not unusual, particularly just after starting from cold, and can often be silenced by using a thin (0-30 or 10-40) oil. Perhaps someone has not changed the oil frequently enough, and the oil has a large sludge deposit obstructing the supply to the tappets. Change the oil at short intervals (4000 miles of so) and see - but do it properly - as per my bit in the Z3 Knowledgebase.
If you want the oil to last for up to 20,000 miles or whatever the SI lights tell you, use a Long Life oils such as Castrol Edge 0-30 or similar, particularly if your driving is mainly short slow running.
Have a look in the owners handbook - it's full of useful info.
A clicky hydraulic tappet is not unusual, particularly just after starting from cold, and can often be silenced by using a thin (0-30 or 10-40) oil. Perhaps someone has not changed the oil frequently enough, and the oil has a large sludge deposit obstructing the supply to the tappets. Change the oil at short intervals (4000 miles of so) and see - but do it properly - as per my bit in the Z3 Knowledgebase.
Re: Oil
cheers for the quick response as ever! - btw, if there is a sludge deposit, is the best thing an oil flush or just to continue changing frequently?Mike Fishwick wrote:The 2.8 is not critical about oil types - I use Fuchs Titan 10-40 full synthetic from Opie Oils, and change it twice a year at about 8000 mile intervals.
If you want the oil to last for up to 20,000 miles or whatever the SI lights tell you, use a Long Life oils such as Castrol Edge 0-30 or similar, particularly if your driving is mainly short slow running.
Have a look in the owners handbook - it's full of useful info.
A clicky hydraulic tappet is not unusual, particularly just after starting from cold, and can often be silenced by using a thin (0-30 or 10-40) oil. Perhaps someone has not changed the oil frequently enough, and the oil has a large sludge deposit obstructing the supply to the tappets. Change the oil at short intervals (4000 miles of so) and see - but do it properly - as per my bit in the Z3 Knowledgebase.
Actually, since the latest oil change its not as prominent a noise. Having a listen this morning (engine cold, bonnet up) it wasn't there at all, so poss just sticky before the change.
there is a rattle though, which diminished as I gently increased the revs. Seemed to be coming from the top of the engine.... any ideas?
'98 Z3 2.8 Nottingham
If it moves and it shouldn't, use Gaffa Tape, if it doesn't move but it should, use WD40...
If it moves and it shouldn't, use Gaffa Tape, if it doesn't move but it should, use WD40...
-
Guest
noise
Yes - it sounds like a clicky tappet, and at this mileage it is doubtful that it is a sign of a worn top timing chain. My 2.8 has covered 93,000 without problems.
Just change the oil very frequently and see how it goes, leaving the filter in until you revert back to synthetic again. Rather than use a flushing oil, I would prefer a good mineral oil with high detergency, such as is suitable for both petrol and diesel engines. For example, VW do a 10-40 SH mineral oil which is quite cheap at German and Swedish (or even VW dealers in a 25 litre drum) and is made for VW by Esso - but it does not say so on the container.
You will see from the handbook that a 10-40 mineral oil is OK.
I had a similar problem - but worse, with a really loud clicking and one cylinder not compressing - in the far end of the Czech Republic in a Golf GTI, and as the engine warmed up it gradually cured itself. On return I began to use the above VW oil, and after a couple of thousand miles the problem went away. We covered 170,000 miles in that car, and it was still good.
Put a few changes of that through the engine and see what happens - It's a good oil for general purpose use, but not for extended changes. I used it in my Golf GTI sprint car for ages, and never had any problems.
Just change the oil very frequently and see how it goes, leaving the filter in until you revert back to synthetic again. Rather than use a flushing oil, I would prefer a good mineral oil with high detergency, such as is suitable for both petrol and diesel engines. For example, VW do a 10-40 SH mineral oil which is quite cheap at German and Swedish (or even VW dealers in a 25 litre drum) and is made for VW by Esso - but it does not say so on the container.
You will see from the handbook that a 10-40 mineral oil is OK.
I had a similar problem - but worse, with a really loud clicking and one cylinder not compressing - in the far end of the Czech Republic in a Golf GTI, and as the engine warmed up it gradually cured itself. On return I began to use the above VW oil, and after a couple of thousand miles the problem went away. We covered 170,000 miles in that car, and it was still good.
Put a few changes of that through the engine and see what happens - It's a good oil for general purpose use, but not for extended changes. I used it in my Golf GTI sprint car for ages, and never had any problems.
Mike, For the 3L, and I assume the 2.8L would be the same I thought the M54 tappets were mechanical not hydraulic?? But on checking found this description [Valve drive Cup tappets with hydraulic valve play compensation] So I assume you adjust as normal with shims but what is meant by compensation??? Is this to allow for temperature difference when starting?
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Guest
Hydraulics
Hydraulic tappets do not need human intervention - they adjust themselves by using oil to compress the valve spring. They have a generous amount of mechanical valave clearance, which is filled up with oil - hence if the oil supply is reduced, the tappet uses more mechanical clearance and causes a clicking noise.
As the seat wears, or the cam wears (hopefully not) and to take into account manufacturng tolerances, the tappet takes in a suitable amount of oil, which of course cannot be compressed, togived a virtually solid tappet with excacly the correct clearance.
Hydraulic tappets tend to 'float' at high rpm, hence the use of shimmed tappets on the M engines - although it would probably run happily on hydraulic tappets, as the hydraulic tappets on a VW 16 valve GTI engine are quite happy to run at up to 7500-8000 rpm. (the VW items are the same as are used on the smaller Mercedes engines)
As the seat wears, or the cam wears (hopefully not) and to take into account manufacturng tolerances, the tappet takes in a suitable amount of oil, which of course cannot be compressed, togived a virtually solid tappet with excacly the correct clearance.
Hydraulic tappets tend to 'float' at high rpm, hence the use of shimmed tappets on the M engines - although it would probably run happily on hydraulic tappets, as the hydraulic tappets on a VW 16 valve GTI engine are quite happy to run at up to 7500-8000 rpm. (the VW items are the same as are used on the smaller Mercedes engines)
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Guest
Rpm
Yes Chris - very true. As an example, take the BMW K100 motorcycle engine, which is a liquid-cooled 1000 cc four cylinder dohc unit. It has shims, developes peakpower at about 8000 rpm, and has a rev limiter operating at about 8500. These engines run for wellover 250,000 miles without any problems, and like most shimmed engines only require the odd sim or two to be changed at about 50,000 mile intervals.
BMW later developed this into 16 valve 1000 and 1100 cc versions, using solid cam followers (tappets) using the excuse that the additional engine speed (about another 250 rpm!) was too much for shims, and of course making valve clearance adjustment more involved, as the camshafts then had to be removed to fit cam followers of different heights. This of course discouraged most owners from attemptiong the job themselves.
Yes, looking at the way VW engines run to great speeds, I bet the M engines would run happily on hydraulic tappets, but this would mean that the inflated cost of an Insp 2 could be reduced!
BMW later developed this into 16 valve 1000 and 1100 cc versions, using solid cam followers (tappets) using the excuse that the additional engine speed (about another 250 rpm!) was too much for shims, and of course making valve clearance adjustment more involved, as the camshafts then had to be removed to fit cam followers of different heights. This of course discouraged most owners from attemptiong the job themselves.
Yes, looking at the way VW engines run to great speeds, I bet the M engines would run happily on hydraulic tappets, but this would mean that the inflated cost of an Insp 2 could be reduced!
Regarding oil types, I came across some info on the net that said for double vanos engines it could not be recommended strongly enough that LL01 just had to be used, [unfortunately I did not record the link], such as edge, softec or longtec in the castrol range with the tappet operation you mention this would seem another reason to use LL01.
Just found this link re oils etc http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/ ... ain=921989
Just found this link re oils etc http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/ ... ain=921989
not to be too 'me me me', but as my engine's a single vanos I should be OK!!mich wrote:Regarding oil types, I came across some info on the net that said for double vanos engines it could not be recommended strongly enough that LL01 just had to be used, [unfortunately I did not record the link], such as edge, softec or longtec in the castrol range with the tappet operation you mention this would seem another reason to use LL01.
Just found this link re oils etc http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/ ... ain=921989
'98 Z3 2.8 Nottingham
If it moves and it shouldn't, use Gaffa Tape, if it doesn't move but it should, use WD40...
If it moves and it shouldn't, use Gaffa Tape, if it doesn't move but it should, use WD40...
-
Guest
LL Oil
This link is concerned with oil suitable for extended changes - which is of no benfit to your engine, but saves money if you go to a BMW dealer for servicing. The correspondents appear to believe all BMW's propaganda.
BMW are currently in bed with Castrol, but that does not mean Castrol are the only manufacturer of decent oil.
Have a look in your handbook, where you will see that there is are a good variety of suitable oil grades.
As far as being 'specially designed for VANOS' goes, it soulds like amateurish sales hype, and is probably aimed at owners of S50-engined M cars, who are so desperate they will try anything.
BMW are currently in bed with Castrol, but that does not mean Castrol are the only manufacturer of decent oil.
Have a look in your handbook, where you will see that there is are a good variety of suitable oil grades.
As far as being 'specially designed for VANOS' goes, it soulds like amateurish sales hype, and is probably aimed at owners of S50-engined M cars, who are so desperate they will try anything.
