Z3 2.8 Costs
Z3 2.8 Costs
Hey all!
I'm a 19 year old (coming up 20 - April) student doing Motorsport Engineering at Brunel Uni (in case anybody else here is nearby!) living in Newbury. ATM living on campus, next year going to be commuting and spending the "accomodation" cash on a flash car instead.
Been looking at a few, but Z3 is definately the top choice. A 1997 2.8 will only cost me £1500ish to insure, drops down to £1350 if I can wait till October (3 years full license), but thats unlikely . Besides, I'm desperate for something fast, and the 2.8 will do me. Plus, being a 6-pot, it'll sound brilliant. My best mates just invested in a 2.2 Z4, and it's amazing. My speculative 2.8 Z3 will neither be as new nor as sophisticated, but it'll be a damn-sight faster in a straight line
Would just like to know about costs of... well, stuff. Found some prices for bits and bobs, wondering if people could fill in the blanks and any thoughts or pointers.
Car - £6k (approx)
Insurance - £1500
Petrol - 30mpg
70mph religious driving Motorway Petrol - ???mpg
Tax - £185
Clutch - £170
Brake Pads - £18
Brake Discs - £64
Tyres (each) - ???
Minor Service - ???
Major Service - ???
Cambelt + Labour - ???
Whats the service interval anyway? And how often for cambelt job? But yeah, my biggest curiosity is what kind of mpg you can squeeze from it. And I mean SQUEEZE - as I'm going to be commuting 100miles a day on the round trip to uni (3/4 days a week, 20ish weeks a year)
Cheers in advance. And gotta say, great forum, when I was speculating about the MR2, that forum was a bit... well not as polished as this one lets say
Oh and if theres any Puma drivers on here by slim chance, that's what I currently drive (1.7 16V, K&N 57i, Eibach 30mm Pro-Kit, Sparco Strut, "tom_deas" on PumaPeople)
Tom
I'm a 19 year old (coming up 20 - April) student doing Motorsport Engineering at Brunel Uni (in case anybody else here is nearby!) living in Newbury. ATM living on campus, next year going to be commuting and spending the "accomodation" cash on a flash car instead.
Been looking at a few, but Z3 is definately the top choice. A 1997 2.8 will only cost me £1500ish to insure, drops down to £1350 if I can wait till October (3 years full license), but thats unlikely . Besides, I'm desperate for something fast, and the 2.8 will do me. Plus, being a 6-pot, it'll sound brilliant. My best mates just invested in a 2.2 Z4, and it's amazing. My speculative 2.8 Z3 will neither be as new nor as sophisticated, but it'll be a damn-sight faster in a straight line
Would just like to know about costs of... well, stuff. Found some prices for bits and bobs, wondering if people could fill in the blanks and any thoughts or pointers.
Car - £6k (approx)
Insurance - £1500
Petrol - 30mpg
70mph religious driving Motorway Petrol - ???mpg
Tax - £185
Clutch - £170
Brake Pads - £18
Brake Discs - £64
Tyres (each) - ???
Minor Service - ???
Major Service - ???
Cambelt + Labour - ???
Whats the service interval anyway? And how often for cambelt job? But yeah, my biggest curiosity is what kind of mpg you can squeeze from it. And I mean SQUEEZE - as I'm going to be commuting 100miles a day on the round trip to uni (3/4 days a week, 20ish weeks a year)
Cheers in advance. And gotta say, great forum, when I was speculating about the MR2, that forum was a bit... well not as polished as this one lets say
Oh and if theres any Puma drivers on here by slim chance, that's what I currently drive (1.7 16V, K&N 57i, Eibach 30mm Pro-Kit, Sparco Strut, "tom_deas" on PumaPeople)
Tom
Car - £6k - YES
Insurance - £1500 - DUNNO
Petrol - 30mpg - NO (26-28 mpg if you're careful. 23mpg if you're not)
70mph religious driving Motorway Petrol - 30-35 mpg
Tax - £185 - YES
Clutch - £170 - DUNNO
Brake Pads - £18 - more like £25
Brake Discs - £64 - DUNNO
Tyres (each) - budget on £100 per corner
Minor Service - DIY = £40 - £70 (Just oil and filter + what you find wrong)
Major Service - DIY = £200 (Oil, Filters (Air, Oil, Fuel), Spark Plugs + what you find wrong)
Cambelt + Labour - Shouldn't need it
Also you should replace brake fluid and anti-freeze every 2 years.
BTW, I wish I had your problems!!!
Insurance - £1500 - DUNNO
Petrol - 30mpg - NO (26-28 mpg if you're careful. 23mpg if you're not)
70mph religious driving Motorway Petrol - 30-35 mpg
Tax - £185 - YES
Clutch - £170 - DUNNO
Brake Pads - £18 - more like £25
Brake Discs - £64 - DUNNO
Tyres (each) - budget on £100 per corner
Minor Service - DIY = £40 - £70 (Just oil and filter + what you find wrong)
Major Service - DIY = £200 (Oil, Filters (Air, Oil, Fuel), Spark Plugs + what you find wrong)
Cambelt + Labour - Shouldn't need it
Also you should replace brake fluid and anti-freeze every 2 years.
BTW, I wish I had your problems!!!
Pingu
cheers for quick response. all the costs i have are what ive already researched - ie the insurance, quotes for brake components etc.
shame about the mpg, but its still a doable amount i guess. my puma atm for some bizzare reason drinks and only gets 35mpg at best (18mpg around town!!!!!! WHAT IS UP WITH THAT), and im living fine with that, so even if it drops a bit, my means of living next school year would be a bit better anyway
service costs are a lot cheaper than what i was expecting which is pretty good... id obv DIY for everything up to and including an engine rebuild (part of the pro's of being on a M.Sport Eng course and previously owning a kit car that broke down every two fricking minutes), but would prefer the stamps in the book... but i guess, not having an immaculate RECORDED service history at this kind of age wouldnt make a huge difference to price, if i can prove from receipts of items that ive purchased the service bits and bobs such as oil and filters etc
whats the period for minors / majors? like, 10k miles, or...?
shame about the mpg, but its still a doable amount i guess. my puma atm for some bizzare reason drinks and only gets 35mpg at best (18mpg around town!!!!!! WHAT IS UP WITH THAT), and im living fine with that, so even if it drops a bit, my means of living next school year would be a bit better anyway
service costs are a lot cheaper than what i was expecting which is pretty good... id obv DIY for everything up to and including an engine rebuild (part of the pro's of being on a M.Sport Eng course and previously owning a kit car that broke down every two fricking minutes), but would prefer the stamps in the book... but i guess, not having an immaculate RECORDED service history at this kind of age wouldnt make a huge difference to price, if i can prove from receipts of items that ive purchased the service bits and bobs such as oil and filters etc
whats the period for minors / majors? like, 10k miles, or...?
Last edited by tom_deas on Fri 21 Mar, 2008 17:59, edited 1 time in total.
hi tom,
i to have a 97 2.8 and she's great. buying a car this old you don't need to go to a bmw dealer. i use a specialist (bartleys in southampton) and they are fantastic.A few answers to your questions..
70mph religious driving Motorway Petrol - an easy 30mpg i see normally
between 32-34mpg
Clutch - £170 (replaced last year £400 fitted)
Brake Pads - £18 (seems cheap,just had new grooved & red stuff pads
£180 pads on there own were £50
Brake Discs - £64 (sounds about right for standard discs)
Tyres (each) - ??? internet £100 for michelins ps2 At tyre dealers they range from £100 upto 180!! so you need to shop around. i replaced my rears with ps2 for £264 from kwikfit.
Minor Service - (oil service £65 again bartleys)
Major Service - (inspection II £200)
between the above inspections there the inspection I which was £150
service intervals about every 10k depending how you drive!!
again prices vary from some of the prices i've seen quoted on here. Do a search theres a dealing guide on here i think and a link to explain servicing.
Cambelt + Labour - (no cambelt to change as its a chain)
hope this helps, main thing with an older z shop around i've found some bargains online, and by the sounds of it your more than capable of doing some of the work on the car yourself
enjoy
i to have a 97 2.8 and she's great. buying a car this old you don't need to go to a bmw dealer. i use a specialist (bartleys in southampton) and they are fantastic.A few answers to your questions..
70mph religious driving Motorway Petrol - an easy 30mpg i see normally
between 32-34mpg
Clutch - £170 (replaced last year £400 fitted)
Brake Pads - £18 (seems cheap,just had new grooved & red stuff pads
£180 pads on there own were £50
Brake Discs - £64 (sounds about right for standard discs)
Tyres (each) - ??? internet £100 for michelins ps2 At tyre dealers they range from £100 upto 180!! so you need to shop around. i replaced my rears with ps2 for £264 from kwikfit.
Minor Service - (oil service £65 again bartleys)
Major Service - (inspection II £200)
between the above inspections there the inspection I which was £150
service intervals about every 10k depending how you drive!!
again prices vary from some of the prices i've seen quoted on here. Do a search theres a dealing guide on here i think and a link to explain servicing.
Cambelt + Labour - (no cambelt to change as its a chain)
hope this helps, main thing with an older z shop around i've found some bargains online, and by the sounds of it your more than capable of doing some of the work on the car yourself
enjoy
- Justin Time
- Joined: Thu 22 Jun, 2006 20:34
- Posts: 2183
- Location: Kent
think others have answered your list, but fwiw, the Z will return good MPG if you're a saint. The problem you'll have is that you won't be. You've already said you want a fast car. But in my opinion, go for it. As long as you can cover the other costs necessity may force you to drive conservatively! - My journeys are all in town (only occasional motorway) and I get an average of 17mpg. I do try to stay slow while she's warming up but blast a little once warm.
As for costs, as others have pointed out there's no cam belt service as the car is chain driven, but do bear in mind the obvious minor but definite extra servicing costs that having 6pots causes, 6 sparks instead of 4, 6 coils instead of your usual 1 etc etc etc (hope I'm not guessing wrong about the coils but am pretty sure there's a coil per pot/spark)
My only warning advice is that you buy wisely - obvious advice maybe but the one thing I'd get checked before committing to buy is four wheel alignment. The 2.8 z3 has not got adjustable rear-end alignment and if its b()ggered (as mine is) its a seriously expensive job to get sorted involving lots of parts swapping etc. if the alignment is OK go for it. BTW, if you drive a few z (particularly in the wet) while you're deciding which to get you'll be able to tell if one's got knackered alignment (I didn't do this) as it'll be the one that has no rear end grip!
Rear subframe bushes do go so this can affect the rear end, but shouldn't cause the alignment to go out. This is a fairly easy fix tho and I wouldn't worry about that.
also, brakes can take a fair amount of wear, particularly the rears if the traction control is active a lot!
good luck and keep us posted!
As for costs, as others have pointed out there's no cam belt service as the car is chain driven, but do bear in mind the obvious minor but definite extra servicing costs that having 6pots causes, 6 sparks instead of 4, 6 coils instead of your usual 1 etc etc etc (hope I'm not guessing wrong about the coils but am pretty sure there's a coil per pot/spark)
My only warning advice is that you buy wisely - obvious advice maybe but the one thing I'd get checked before committing to buy is four wheel alignment. The 2.8 z3 has not got adjustable rear-end alignment and if its b()ggered (as mine is) its a seriously expensive job to get sorted involving lots of parts swapping etc. if the alignment is OK go for it. BTW, if you drive a few z (particularly in the wet) while you're deciding which to get you'll be able to tell if one's got knackered alignment (I didn't do this) as it'll be the one that has no rear end grip!
Rear subframe bushes do go so this can affect the rear end, but shouldn't cause the alignment to go out. This is a fairly easy fix tho and I wouldn't worry about that.
also, brakes can take a fair amount of wear, particularly the rears if the traction control is active a lot!
good luck and keep us posted!
'98 Z3 2.8 Nottingham
If it moves and it shouldn't, use Gaffa Tape, if it doesn't move but it should, use WD40...
If it moves and it shouldn't, use Gaffa Tape, if it doesn't move but it should, use WD40...
cheers for the advice there
and yeah, its a bit of a contradiction, but i want a sh*t fast car for the occassional bursts around town ( ) but the majority of my miles will be motorway. and on the motorway i drive like a saint, so...
an extra 2 sparks / HT leads shouldnt be too much extra cost so thats not that bad... the fact its a timing chain and not a belt is the real cost saviour
brake pads and discs i thought were relatively cheap (the much cheaper toyota MR2's pads and discs are surprisingly more expensive) so wear there shouldnt be a problem...
well i can with certainty say after talking to you lot im definately keyed in for Z3 ownership will probs post again when ive commited to one, which wont be for, in the minimum, a couple weeks (when i turn 20), or if im feeling sensible then july (when i get my 3rd years NCB), or if im having cash flow problems then october (when ive had my license 3 years - all 3 of these events being a £200+ drop in insurance premium), but most likely will be sometime in May or June that I take the plunge. hopefully the time will fly by! i feel like a 5 year old going to disneyland
and yeah, its a bit of a contradiction, but i want a sh*t fast car for the occassional bursts around town ( ) but the majority of my miles will be motorway. and on the motorway i drive like a saint, so...
an extra 2 sparks / HT leads shouldnt be too much extra cost so thats not that bad... the fact its a timing chain and not a belt is the real cost saviour
brake pads and discs i thought were relatively cheap (the much cheaper toyota MR2's pads and discs are surprisingly more expensive) so wear there shouldnt be a problem...
well i can with certainty say after talking to you lot im definately keyed in for Z3 ownership will probs post again when ive commited to one, which wont be for, in the minimum, a couple weeks (when i turn 20), or if im feeling sensible then july (when i get my 3rd years NCB), or if im having cash flow problems then october (when ive had my license 3 years - all 3 of these events being a £200+ drop in insurance premium), but most likely will be sometime in May or June that I take the plunge. hopefully the time will fly by! i feel like a 5 year old going to disneyland
The point that lurker was making about the coils is that there are no spark plug leads.tom_deas wrote:an extra 2 sparks / HT leads shouldnt be too much extra cost so thats not that bad... the fact its a timing chain and not a belt is the real cost saviour
There is a coil pack sat on top of each spark plug.
Although they don't fail very often, they will cost about £60 each (as a guess) [$83 on realoem.com/bmw]
Pingu
hi tom.
just a little more advice. i've just had new Brembo discs and Pagid pads form GSF all round and it cost me £225 + £60 to get them fitted but i could have done it cheaper with good quality pattern parts from the same supplier. in general i get 280 mile from a tank full on general fun driving = good mix of blasts and touring. mine has only done 43k, and as groover says for a car of that age you dont need to go to your local dealer for work on the car. good luck with your search, i think you have made the right choice as the 2.8 is fast enough (almost) sounds good, is not too expensive to run (£185 road tax) and will look better than a Z4 in years to come IMHO. keep us updated and dont forget the pics.
just a little more advice. i've just had new Brembo discs and Pagid pads form GSF all round and it cost me £225 + £60 to get them fitted but i could have done it cheaper with good quality pattern parts from the same supplier. in general i get 280 mile from a tank full on general fun driving = good mix of blasts and touring. mine has only done 43k, and as groover says for a car of that age you dont need to go to your local dealer for work on the car. good luck with your search, i think you have made the right choice as the 2.8 is fast enough (almost) sounds good, is not too expensive to run (£185 road tax) and will look better than a Z4 in years to come IMHO. keep us updated and dont forget the pics.
I've had a 1998 2.8 Z3 for fully 3 years now. I use a local independent for MOT and service which cost less than £200 the first year, just about £200 last year and for the major service and a full re-work on the brakes this year £800. I replaced a pair of tyres (Continental Sport Contact 2 - and I rate them) for £200. So I'd say the service interval is better measured in TIME than in MILES for these older motors. It's once a year.
Mixed driving gives me about 28mpg. Using V-Power does make a difference of about 10% (so if the price is with 10% of regular petrol buy it, if not don't) and driving steady on a motorway can give more than 35mpg - but that's dead boring and you won't do it however good your intentions.
Insurance I've found Bell to be far cheaper (like half the price) of anyone else. I don't expect them to pay up if I ever need to claim. Other tip is put up a big voluntary excess - in case of not your fault incident put it on your credit card until the claim is settled. If incident is your fault then that'll teach you. And since you're a student it's worth talking to Endsleigh.
Mixed driving gives me about 28mpg. Using V-Power does make a difference of about 10% (so if the price is with 10% of regular petrol buy it, if not don't) and driving steady on a motorway can give more than 35mpg - but that's dead boring and you won't do it however good your intentions.
Insurance I've found Bell to be far cheaper (like half the price) of anyone else. I don't expect them to pay up if I ever need to claim. Other tip is put up a big voluntary excess - in case of not your fault incident put it on your credit card until the claim is settled. If incident is your fault then that'll teach you. And since you're a student it's worth talking to Endsleigh.
cheers
yeah, added benefit of super / v-power is the increase in, well, performance. so i dont know why everyone doesnt buy it seeing as, with careful driving, it can on average increase your mpg as well
bell are so cheap its mad. endsleigh cost me the earth last time i was insured with them and their cheapest quote for me is more than double bells. good shout on the high excess - worth the risk - im not being arrogant but im a good driver, i dont intend to cause any accidents - its other people on the road have to be careful of...
yeah, added benefit of super / v-power is the increase in, well, performance. so i dont know why everyone doesnt buy it seeing as, with careful driving, it can on average increase your mpg as well
bell are so cheap its mad. endsleigh cost me the earth last time i was insured with them and their cheapest quote for me is more than double bells. good shout on the high excess - worth the risk - im not being arrogant but im a good driver, i dont intend to cause any accidents - its other people on the road have to be careful of...
- cowboybebop
- Joined: Sat 12 May, 2007 21:54
- Posts: 366
- Location: Derby
tom_deas wrote
If you search there is a post showing the different inlets - I think that it was curved inlets without a cover for the single vanos and flatter inlet with a cover for the double vanos.
Form other posts the later double vanos should be on 2.8 Z3's built from Sep 98.the later engine... what age from?
If you search there is a post showing the different inlets - I think that it was curved inlets without a cover for the single vanos and flatter inlet with a cover for the double vanos.
mich wrote:tom_deas wrote:id obv DIY for everything up to and including an engine rebuild quote]
At 19? where has your experience come from , still there is nothing like the confidence of youth, the best of luck
lmao. i used to have a kit car. i did EVERYTHING to that - basically rebuilt it from the ground up. the only thing i didnt touch much was the suspension, apart from that... rebuilt the engine from the ground up and everything. it was a good learning experience. a pain in the absolute fricking a*ss mind you, having it break down every 5 minutes. but im quite pleased, cos the post-rebuild MOT man said id done a fine job on the engine
plus im doing a motorsport engineering degree. its not as much about cars in the first year as you'd hope, but we've done a lot of work around the Yamaha R6 engine
im a fairly hands on guy, ill give anything a shot to be honest. doing my mates cambelt next week if i get enough time... never touched an escort before but theres a first time for everything eh besides, the further you go the more you know. its great being able to do stuff yourself - saves a bomb. im going to be doing all DIY servicing for my Z3 - or at least, all the minor work. and if anything major goes wrong ill definately give it a shot myself... especially if its something like a blown head gasket like i had on the kit car. dont see what people rave on about them being major issues - sure, labour cost is high, but do it yourself i say! its basically just a big lego set, take apart and put back together obviously theres the issue of diagnosing what CAUSED the blown gasket, but apart from that...
- whiteminks
- Joined: Tue 26 Sep, 2006 09:58
- Posts: 2768
- Location: Lincoln
tom_deas, I am not going to dampen your enthusiasm but believe me “the more you know the more you realise that you don’t know” and this applies to most things in life, also replacing a head gasket without finding out what caused it’s failure is pointless, ask your local mechanic, I was in the trade for many years and have built Engines, Gear Boxes, Diffs + the whole lot of what goes to make a Car, each job is different and throws up different problems this is where experience is essential, this is also why this forum is such a success as the pooled experience is so valuable and is constantly used by even experienced owners who don’t know everything.
haha yeah. i wouldnt take it to bits unless necessity intended it
cant believe it. my insurance this year will be £1428 (3 points for dodgy tyre, one non-fault accident) but next year it drops to £900, just because i turn 21. its silly really. its hardly like, when i turn 21 im suddenly going to get more mature... tsk. not going to complain though, £900 is pretty good for a 21 year old.
and yes, Z3's are brilliant cars
cant believe it. my insurance this year will be £1428 (3 points for dodgy tyre, one non-fault accident) but next year it drops to £900, just because i turn 21. its silly really. its hardly like, when i turn 21 im suddenly going to get more mature... tsk. not going to complain though, £900 is pretty good for a 21 year old.
and yes, Z3's are brilliant cars
Don't Worry!
Don't worry about running costs etc - if, as you remarked, you 'want a sh*t fast car for the occassional bursts around town' either your car or your licence will not last long enough to worry about running costs!
Try an IAM course, which may put an older head on your youthful shoulders, or at least have your 'occassional bursts' ouside town, which is safer and more rewarding anway . . .
Try an IAM course, which may put an older head on your youthful shoulders, or at least have your 'occassional bursts' ouside town, which is safer and more rewarding anway . . .
Well the insurance look at it like this, if you have got to that age without killing yourself, or others then you got a chance of reaching 25, and then again the same at 30, they seem to be the milestones for reduced insurance costs.tom_deas wrote:haha yeah. i wouldnt take it to bits unless necessity intended it
cant believe it. my insurance this year will be £1428 (3 points for dodgy tyre, one non-fault accident) but next year it drops to £900, just because i turn 21. its silly really. its hardly like, when i turn 21 im suddenly going to get more mature... tsk. not going to complain though, £900 is pretty good for a 21 year old.
and yes, Z3's are brilliant cars
That Black Magic Woman Bewitches Me Wickedly!!!
c_w wrote:At 70mph a 2.8 should easily see 35mpg, the later double vanos engine is more economical, it always averaged 28mpg in mixed driving, but on motorways it would get 40mpg at about 60mph.
Thats exactly right, but you'll never manage 40 from a cold start, especially as you also have to drive to the M-way! Just reset the consumption function when your doing 60 on a flat road and you will get 40. Give it any gas and it goes to 35 almost immediately though!
You could bank on 32mpg for 80% motorway, 20% urban and a little bit of foot action in between.
Thats what I have been getting.
1998 2.8 M52TU, pre-facelift, hard top, montreal blue, tan interior, 91K
forgive me but that still sounds like an AWFULLY large amount of money??? do you live in a high risk area? like london?Alex L wrote:Group 20 car, 9 years clean licence *touch wood*.
Needless to say I'm not paying £3,500, forgot to mention that was also based on 5,000 miles per annum for social use only as it's a weekend toy!