the radiator at the front of the car - how far should I fill this up with water and do i put antifreeze in it?
its my first car sorry....
basic question
We all have to start somewhere M8
If your car is like mine there will be an expansion tank in your engine bay. mine is in the top right hand corner of the engine bay. take off the cap (when the engine is cold) and there is a stick that lifts up to tell you how much water is in the tank, this stick is fixed and does not lift out of the tank just moves up and down If the stick is below the filler cap screw lip just top up slowly until the tip of the stick is level with the top of the screw lip. antifreeze/summer coolant should be used to the manufacturers instructions on the bottle.
Hope that helps
Paul
If your car is like mine there will be an expansion tank in your engine bay. mine is in the top right hand corner of the engine bay. take off the cap (when the engine is cold) and there is a stick that lifts up to tell you how much water is in the tank, this stick is fixed and does not lift out of the tank just moves up and down If the stick is below the filler cap screw lip just top up slowly until the tip of the stick is level with the top of the screw lip. antifreeze/summer coolant should be used to the manufacturers instructions on the bottle.
Hope that helps
Paul
Why does mineral water that takes a 1000 years to flow up through the earth, have a sell by date on the bottle?
It is not normal for Z3's to lose water from the radiator - I don't think I have had to add any myself in the 10 years I've owned mine.
To check the level on the 1.9 (the other engines are different - they have a stick as Torres says) if you unscrew the top (with the engine cold) and look down the plastic tube underneath, you should see the coolant (water) level - this should be on or about the middle of the graduations on the outside (the middle one is raised slightly). It is not the easiest thing to read, and I have found the best way is to put you thumb on the mark and look for the shadow on the inside.
The manual witters on about using the correct anti-freeze, but in general if you are adding a very small amount, water should be fine. Over time you will gradually dilute the antifreeze by doing this. Antifreeze/coolant is normally replaced every 4 years on these engines. If you find the level drops over time, you likely have a leak and should get it looked at - as I say mine does not need any topping up.
If you managed to get hold of the pdf of the manual, then page 130 has a picture.
Nice choice for a first car.
Cheers R.
Edit: Torres beat me to it - edited to correct "for other engines"
To check the level on the 1.9 (the other engines are different - they have a stick as Torres says) if you unscrew the top (with the engine cold) and look down the plastic tube underneath, you should see the coolant (water) level - this should be on or about the middle of the graduations on the outside (the middle one is raised slightly). It is not the easiest thing to read, and I have found the best way is to put you thumb on the mark and look for the shadow on the inside.
The manual witters on about using the correct anti-freeze, but in general if you are adding a very small amount, water should be fine. Over time you will gradually dilute the antifreeze by doing this. Antifreeze/coolant is normally replaced every 4 years on these engines. If you find the level drops over time, you likely have a leak and should get it looked at - as I say mine does not need any topping up.
If you managed to get hold of the pdf of the manual, then page 130 has a picture.
Nice choice for a first car.
Cheers R.
Edit: Torres beat me to it - edited to correct "for other engines"
Arctic Silver '99 Z3 1.9 & Black '59 Frogeye 1275cc
Well done moldmcdohl for returning to zroadster. I, for one, hope that the "banter" on the other thread hasn't put you off staying with us (even if you move away from BMWs). Hopefully, you can see that most of us are understanding of newbies.
Moving on...
Don't be misled by the word "antifreeze". The main purpose of the fluid is as a rust inhibitor, and general gunge collector.
If you were to run the coolant system with just water, corrosion would happen quite quickly, and the deposits would collect at the places in the engine where the coolant moves slowest (just like mud in a river). This would cause blockages that would lead to hot spots and eventual overheating. The "antifreeze" that you add to the water slows down the onset of corrosion and holds the deposits in suspension (hence the reason for replacing the fluid periodically). The fluid has the additional advantage of freezing at a lower temperature.
Moving on...
Don't be misled by the word "antifreeze". The main purpose of the fluid is as a rust inhibitor, and general gunge collector.
If you were to run the coolant system with just water, corrosion would happen quite quickly, and the deposits would collect at the places in the engine where the coolant moves slowest (just like mud in a river). This would cause blockages that would lead to hot spots and eventual overheating. The "antifreeze" that you add to the water slows down the onset of corrosion and holds the deposits in suspension (hence the reason for replacing the fluid periodically). The fluid has the additional advantage of freezing at a lower temperature.
Pingu
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Guest
Handbook
Although I shall no doubt be castigated (as usual) for suggesting that you obtain an Owners Handbook, this is precisely the kind of information it contains - plus a bit of BMW propaganda on only using their own brand of antifreeze, which you can always take advice on if necessary.
As I tried to suggest last time you asked a basic question, self-help with the manual (which is a pretty good read) is both easier, and will do you more good, than having to ask basic questions on a forum. We all had to start somewhere, and it was usually by reading basic information such as is contained in a Owners Handbook, and relating it to our car.
I would not suggest reading the Bentley Z3 manual, which is too large, too expensive, contains utter rubbish in some parts, and is generally useless for you. Read the Owners Handbook from cover to cover, and you will be amazed at how much you retain. It's funny, but reading from old-fashioned paper book really helps you to retain information, whereas reading from a screen usually goes out as easily as it went in. Unfortunately, many young people - particularly young males - cannot read more than six lines (such as a classified advertisement) without losing the context, unless it is on a screen!
So - get a copy of the Owners Handbook, and read it - it exists on the internet somewhere, but is worth buying one to keep in the car. A proper copy will not run when it gets wet, so is always better than something printed off the net. An internet forum, or a wet PC-printed copy, will not help you on the road.
Try simple tasks such as topping up the oil/water/screenwash/power steering/battery, jacking the car up, and replacing a wheel with the emergency spare. I wouldn't reccommend driving on it though, unless you have to, and particularlyso if you have not read the instruction to disable the ASC! If you have a power roof, find where the pump by-pass valve is, and how to operate it - this is a basic necessity, for if a power roof refuses to raise when it suddenly rains, it's not fun.
Also - when asking your next question, please state which model you have - we are not clairvoyant. Give the engine capacity and year of manufacture, which will help to get a sensible answer. All Z3 models may look the same, but they differ in many areas.
I'll wait for the inevitable flak . . .
As I tried to suggest last time you asked a basic question, self-help with the manual (which is a pretty good read) is both easier, and will do you more good, than having to ask basic questions on a forum. We all had to start somewhere, and it was usually by reading basic information such as is contained in a Owners Handbook, and relating it to our car.
I would not suggest reading the Bentley Z3 manual, which is too large, too expensive, contains utter rubbish in some parts, and is generally useless for you. Read the Owners Handbook from cover to cover, and you will be amazed at how much you retain. It's funny, but reading from old-fashioned paper book really helps you to retain information, whereas reading from a screen usually goes out as easily as it went in. Unfortunately, many young people - particularly young males - cannot read more than six lines (such as a classified advertisement) without losing the context, unless it is on a screen!
So - get a copy of the Owners Handbook, and read it - it exists on the internet somewhere, but is worth buying one to keep in the car. A proper copy will not run when it gets wet, so is always better than something printed off the net. An internet forum, or a wet PC-printed copy, will not help you on the road.
Try simple tasks such as topping up the oil/water/screenwash/power steering/battery, jacking the car up, and replacing a wheel with the emergency spare. I wouldn't reccommend driving on it though, unless you have to, and particularlyso if you have not read the instruction to disable the ASC! If you have a power roof, find where the pump by-pass valve is, and how to operate it - this is a basic necessity, for if a power roof refuses to raise when it suddenly rains, it's not fun.
Also - when asking your next question, please state which model you have - we are not clairvoyant. Give the engine capacity and year of manufacture, which will help to get a sensible answer. All Z3 models may look the same, but they differ in many areas.
I'll wait for the inevitable flak . . .
No Flak at all Mike..........More like a big round of applause 
Gazza
"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you"
Z3 S54 M roadster
, BMW Z1, BMW M3 CSL, Z4M Coupe
"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you"
Z3 S54 M roadster
, BMW Z1, BMW M3 CSL, Z4M Coupe-
spurs fan in a coupe
- Joined: Fri 18 Apr, 2008 19:24
- Posts: 1446
- Location: woking
Gary I don't think you deserve to get any 'flak'
You make a number of very valid points..... especially knowing how to change the spare! If its anything like my coupe it is a bloody nightmare trying to guess how BMW decided to tie up the spare! On the side of a pitch black dual carriage way after a 70mph blow out wasn't the ideal time to find out!
Even though my dad is a mechanic and I frequently work there too it's easy to get into a lazy frame of mind.... after a great spin the other day I tucked my car away and the tappets were banging away! I was a litre short on oil, could have been disasterous!
You make a number of very valid points..... especially knowing how to change the spare! If its anything like my coupe it is a bloody nightmare trying to guess how BMW decided to tie up the spare! On the side of a pitch black dual carriage way after a 70mph blow out wasn't the ideal time to find out!
Even though my dad is a mechanic and I frequently work there too it's easy to get into a lazy frame of mind.... after a great spin the other day I tucked my car away and the tappets were banging away! I was a litre short on oil, could have been disasterous!
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whiteminks
- Joined: Tue 26 Sep, 2006 09:58
- Posts: 2768
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- Location: Lincoln
Mike, we love you and if I had several hours spare a day I'd be studying Zedology. 
Unfortunately with the pace of modern life, many of us have to pay people to do it for us................ if only I had the time.
Unfortunately with the pace of modern life, many of us have to pay people to do it for us................ if only I had the time.
big cheesy wrote:'I nearly cacked my trolleys till I quickly tuned in'. Yorkshire Cruise 2008.
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smartypants
- Joined: Tue 09 Jan, 2007 12:15
- Posts: 1210
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- Location: Bracknell
Re: Handbook
Mike Fishwick wrote:Although I shall no doubt be castigated (as usual) for suggesting that you obtain an Owners Handbook, this is precisely the kind of information it contains - plus a bit of BMW propaganda on only using their own brand of antifreeze, which you can always take advice on if necessary.
As I tried to suggest last time you asked a basic question, self-help with the manual (which is a pretty good read) is both easier, and will do you more good, than having to ask basic questions on a forum. We all had to start somewhere, and it was usually by reading basic information such as is contained in a Owners Handbook, and relating it to our car.
I would not suggest reading the Bentley Z3 manual, which is too large, too expensive, contains utter rubbish in some parts, and is generally useless for you. Read the Owners Handbook from cover to cover, and you will be amazed at how much you retain. It's funny, but reading from old-fashioned paper book really helps you to retain information, whereas reading from a screen usually goes out as easily as it went in. Unfortunately, many young people - particularly young males - cannot read more than six lines (such as a classified advertisement) without losing the context, unless it is on a screen!
So - get a copy of the Owners Handbook, and read it - it exists on the internet somewhere, but is worth buying one to keep in the car. A proper copy will not run when it gets wet, so is always better than something printed off the net. An internet forum, or a wet PC-printed copy, will not help you on the road.
Try simple tasks such as topping up the oil/water/screenwash/power steering/battery, jacking the car up, and replacing a wheel with the emergency spare. I wouldn't reccommend driving on it though, unless you have to, and particularlyso if you have not read the instruction to disable the ASC! If you have a power roof, find where the pump by-pass valve is, and how to operate it - this is a basic necessity, for if a power roof refuses to raise when it suddenly rains, it's not fun.
Also - when asking your next question, please state which model you have - we are not clairvoyant. Give the engine capacity and year of manufacture, which will help to get a sensible answer. All Z3 models may look the same, but they differ in many areas.
I'll wait for the inevitable flak . . .
moldmcdohl
I hope this constructive info will encourage you to learn more about how your car works, it really is part of the enjoyment of owning a car like this. Well done for at least opening the bonnet, its surprising how many people don't and leave everything for garage to do at "the next service".
I'm new to this forum as well and must admit its over 10 years since I really got under the hood of a car. I am the classic company car driver. I have never even looked under the hood of my 2 year old daily drive!
Mike your articles have been fantastic for me and I read through every one over christmas (much to my girlfriends annoyance). Yes there are times I have cringed at some of your posts but this is a true community forum and one of the best I have seen. Its the first forum I have ever joined and the experience is adding to my joy at owning a Z. You took some flak which was probably justified but took it on the chin and learnt from it which is how it should be (great post above)
I am looking forward to getting under the bonnet and will probably ask some stupid questions myself, but I know people on here will be willing to help, and yes maybe give me some stick but if done in the right way is all part of the fun
I hope this constructive info will encourage you to learn more about how your car works, it really is part of the enjoyment of owning a car like this. Well done for at least opening the bonnet, its surprising how many people don't and leave everything for garage to do at "the next service".
I'm new to this forum as well and must admit its over 10 years since I really got under the hood of a car. I am the classic company car driver. I have never even looked under the hood of my 2 year old daily drive!
Mike your articles have been fantastic for me and I read through every one over christmas (much to my girlfriends annoyance). Yes there are times I have cringed at some of your posts but this is a true community forum and one of the best I have seen. Its the first forum I have ever joined and the experience is adding to my joy at owning a Z. You took some flak which was probably justified but took it on the chin and learnt from it which is how it should be (great post above)
I am looking forward to getting under the bonnet and will probably ask some stupid questions myself, but I know people on here will be willing to help, and yes maybe give me some stick but if done in the right way is all part of the fun
Errrr that would be me thenjonttt wrote:Well done for at least opening the bonnet, its surprising how many people don't and leave everything for garage to do at "the next service".
My motto is......leave it to the professionals, if you are paying for the car to be serviced why do it yourself as well?
But I have read the owners handbook
its got lots of useful info in it just like Mike said.-
Guest
Why?
Why not lift the bonnet from time to time - most of the so-called breakdowns on UK roads are caused by problems with cooling systems and tyres. I feel that the 'company car syndrome' is responsible for this, and the lack of technical training amongst the young.
If you can be bothered to check the water level from time to time, and examine the drive belts, not to mention checking the fan blades for cracks at their roots, you may avoid joining the hapless people who one sees on the edges of our roads.
Tyres are another often-neglected area, if you really want a fine and few points on your licence, and maybe have an accident. Sensible people keep an eye on them, including checking the pressures, which may give advance warning of a puncture.
Would you really drive for ages with one headlight, and leave replacing the bulb until the next service - which may be in a year's time?
The problem is that there now seems to be some kind of snob value in being 'Useless with cars,' so telling the world (As if it cared!) that you are not a dirty-handed 'worker' or a cost-concious poor person.
If you can work an Ipod or mobile phone, you can make simple checks on your car. All that is required is the will to help yourself.
In my ideal world, all drivers would be responsible for doing this, and if stuck by the roadside with obviously perished radiator hoses, or with a puncture, they would be left to rot! Vote for me as dictator!
If you can be bothered to check the water level from time to time, and examine the drive belts, not to mention checking the fan blades for cracks at their roots, you may avoid joining the hapless people who one sees on the edges of our roads.
Tyres are another often-neglected area, if you really want a fine and few points on your licence, and maybe have an accident. Sensible people keep an eye on them, including checking the pressures, which may give advance warning of a puncture.
Would you really drive for ages with one headlight, and leave replacing the bulb until the next service - which may be in a year's time?
The problem is that there now seems to be some kind of snob value in being 'Useless with cars,' so telling the world (As if it cared!) that you are not a dirty-handed 'worker' or a cost-concious poor person.
If you can work an Ipod or mobile phone, you can make simple checks on your car. All that is required is the will to help yourself.
In my ideal world, all drivers would be responsible for doing this, and if stuck by the roadside with obviously perished radiator hoses, or with a puncture, they would be left to rot! Vote for me as dictator!
The greatest financial gift I was ever given was a tool kit off my Dad (to fix my bike) and the help (training) to fix it.
He never touched the bike, he just told me what to do, watched to make sure I did it right, and checked it after.
He did the same with my first car, and the same with brick-laying, plumbing and electrics.
I'm 44 now and the only labour I've ever paid for are MOTs and two BMW services (both of which I had to redo, because they did them wrong). I only paid for them because I wanted the stamp.
It is without any doubt at all that I've saved more money by not spending it than I have made by earning it (does that make sense?).
So, read the books and fix it yourself. You'll save a fortune.
He never touched the bike, he just told me what to do, watched to make sure I did it right, and checked it after.
He did the same with my first car, and the same with brick-laying, plumbing and electrics.
I'm 44 now and the only labour I've ever paid for are MOTs and two BMW services (both of which I had to redo, because they did them wrong). I only paid for them because I wanted the stamp.
It is without any doubt at all that I've saved more money by not spending it than I have made by earning it (does that make sense?).
So, read the books and fix it yourself. You'll save a fortune.
Pingu
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smartypants
- Joined: Tue 09 Jan, 2007 12:15
- Posts: 1210
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- Location: Bracknell
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Guest
Fsh
Whether a lack of FBMWSH really affects the second-hand value of a car is debatable. It depends on many factors such as age, milage, condition, and proof of how it has been maintained - not to mention the level of savvy on the part of a potential purchaser..
Obviously, a BMW dealer will require a book full of expensive rubber stamps before adding it to his stock, but in the case of a car such as mine - ten years old, 103,000 miles, and in demonstrably excellent condiiton, it does not matter at all. If I were buying a new or nearly new BMW from a dealer, I would be better off selling the Z3 privately, and doing a straight deal, regardless of rubber stamps.
With today's lack of technical awareness, many impressionable people really seem to believe that a collection of rubber stamps, signifying expensive oil changes, means a well-maintained car. All you get for this investment is an oil & filter change, and maybe new plugs and the occasional air filter. Oh - they also clean the car a bit.
Rusted, corroded brake calipers and pads siezed in position? Not bothered with - except at pre-Mot time, to sell you new discs, pads, and calipers. A bit of rust on the outer part of the discs, signifying light brake use? Warped discs sir. Battery levels? Not included, but they can sell you a new battery after its premature failure. Power steering and gearbox oil changes? Never. Final drive oil change? Very occasional - perhaps. Brake fluid? Often only sucked out of the reservoir and then topped up.
I could go on for ever . . . even oil changes are done by sucking it out via the dipstick hole, and often on a cold engine, leading to sludge deposits - not to mention the scandal of not replacing the small 'O' rings inside the oil filter housing, which can lead to siezed crankshaft bearings (see my bit on oil changes in the Z3 Knowledgebase).
If you want stamps, buy them from a post office - at least they have a use.
Obviously, a BMW dealer will require a book full of expensive rubber stamps before adding it to his stock, but in the case of a car such as mine - ten years old, 103,000 miles, and in demonstrably excellent condiiton, it does not matter at all. If I were buying a new or nearly new BMW from a dealer, I would be better off selling the Z3 privately, and doing a straight deal, regardless of rubber stamps.
With today's lack of technical awareness, many impressionable people really seem to believe that a collection of rubber stamps, signifying expensive oil changes, means a well-maintained car. All you get for this investment is an oil & filter change, and maybe new plugs and the occasional air filter. Oh - they also clean the car a bit.
Rusted, corroded brake calipers and pads siezed in position? Not bothered with - except at pre-Mot time, to sell you new discs, pads, and calipers. A bit of rust on the outer part of the discs, signifying light brake use? Warped discs sir. Battery levels? Not included, but they can sell you a new battery after its premature failure. Power steering and gearbox oil changes? Never. Final drive oil change? Very occasional - perhaps. Brake fluid? Often only sucked out of the reservoir and then topped up.
I could go on for ever . . . even oil changes are done by sucking it out via the dipstick hole, and often on a cold engine, leading to sludge deposits - not to mention the scandal of not replacing the small 'O' rings inside the oil filter housing, which can lead to siezed crankshaft bearings (see my bit on oil changes in the Z3 Knowledgebase).
If you want stamps, buy them from a post office - at least they have a use.
Mike
I agree with you totally on a car which is out of warranty. Unfortunately in order to maintain a cars warranty a full dealer history is required. In fact it is a condition of our company car policy as well.
You could buy a Rolls Royce Phantom which has free servicing for 5 years. More realistically Mini's when purchased with the TLC package (a must have, used to be £100 not sure with current model) but which gave 3 years free dealer servicing. This of course is no guarantee that the work is actually carried out correctly.
Unfortunately most owners of new cars do not intend to keep them long term and take the view that any problems would be covered by warranty so long as they have the service stamp i they are not really bothered if the service is done correctly so long as the car gets them rom A to B.
I believe that when buying cars as old as the Z3's are getting now there is a "gut feel" as to if a car has been looked after. Evidence of servicing is a part of this but not necessarily from a dealer.
I agree with you totally on a car which is out of warranty. Unfortunately in order to maintain a cars warranty a full dealer history is required. In fact it is a condition of our company car policy as well.
You could buy a Rolls Royce Phantom which has free servicing for 5 years. More realistically Mini's when purchased with the TLC package (a must have, used to be £100 not sure with current model) but which gave 3 years free dealer servicing. This of course is no guarantee that the work is actually carried out correctly.
Unfortunately most owners of new cars do not intend to keep them long term and take the view that any problems would be covered by warranty so long as they have the service stamp i they are not really bothered if the service is done correctly so long as the car gets them rom A to B.
I believe that when buying cars as old as the Z3's are getting now there is a "gut feel" as to if a car has been looked after. Evidence of servicing is a part of this but not necessarily from a dealer.
I think people get a bit excitable about car maintenance when other people don't have quite the same enthusiasm. I do all my servicing on my M Coupe (including valve clearances etc) BUT I quite enjoy it and I would say it's a hobby but we should realise that not all people share the same feeling.
When you have central heating system most people are assumed to be only knowledgable in switching it on and any problems are referred to a plumber (even if bleeding a radiator, draining it or other "basic" tasks are quite easy). If you have a PC with a problem, software or hardware, some people will have no problem taking it to bits and fixing it, but many people will take it back to a shop to have it fixed. It's the same with a car IMO. Yes oil and water levels are pretty basic stuff but we need to realise that not everyone wants to polish their rear diff cover!!
When you have central heating system most people are assumed to be only knowledgable in switching it on and any problems are referred to a plumber (even if bleeding a radiator, draining it or other "basic" tasks are quite easy). If you have a PC with a problem, software or hardware, some people will have no problem taking it to bits and fixing it, but many people will take it back to a shop to have it fixed. It's the same with a car IMO. Yes oil and water levels are pretty basic stuff but we need to realise that not everyone wants to polish their rear diff cover!!
That can be done?c_w wrote: not everyone wants to polish their rear diff cover!!
Gazza
"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you"
Z3 S54 M roadster, BMW Z1, BMW M3 CSL, Z4M Coupe
"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you"
Z3 S54 M roadster
, BMW Z1, BMW M3 CSL, Z4M Coupe
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Guest
Yes!
There is no excuse for neglecting basic checks - particularly tyres, and replacing failed bulbs. which have a direct bearing on your own safety, as well as that of others.
As for polishing diff covers, well, it can be done . . .
As for polishing diff covers, well, it can be done . . .
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smartypants
- Joined: Tue 09 Jan, 2007 12:15
- Posts: 1210
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- Location: Bracknell
Re: Fsh
Not in my experience in owning my Zed for 5 years, now coming to sell it. I certainly wouldn't buy a BMW that I wanted to run as a daily drive without a full set of stamps - I just wouldnt touch it with a barge pole, and many are also of this train of thought. So it matters not how good the technician was who carried out the work was, but that you have the reassurance that a fully serviced BMW was cared for enough to warrant being taken to main dealer.Mike Fishwick wrote:Whether a lack of FBMWSH really affects the second-hand value of a car is debatable. It depends on many factors such as age, milage, condition, and proof of how it has been maintained - not to mention the level of savvy on the part of a potential purchaser..
Obviously, a BMW dealer will require a book full of expensive rubber stamps before adding it to his stock, but in the case of a car such as mine - ten years old, 103,000 miles, and in demonstrably excellent condiiton, it does not matter at all. If I were buying a new or nearly new BMW from a dealer, I would be better off selling the Z3 privately, and doing a straight deal, regardless of rubber stamps.
With today's lack of technical awareness, many impressionable people really seem to believe that a collection of rubber stamps, signifying expensive oil changes, means a well-maintained car. All you get for this investment is an oil & filter change, and maybe new plugs and the occasional air filter. Oh - they also clean the car a bit.
Rusted, corroded brake calipers and pads siezed in position? Not bothered with - except at pre-Mot time, to sell you new discs, pads, and calipers. A bit of rust on the outer part of the discs, signifying light brake use? Warped discs sir. Battery levels? Not included, but they can sell you a new battery after its premature failure. Power steering and gearbox oil changes? Never. Final drive oil change? Very occasional - perhaps. Brake fluid? Often only sucked out of the reservoir and then topped up.
I could go on for ever . . . even oil changes are done by sucking it out via the dipstick hole, and often on a cold engine, leading to sludge deposits - not to mention the scandal of not replacing the small 'O' rings inside the oil filter housing, which can lead to siezed crankshaft bearings (see my bit on oil changes in the Z3 Knowledgebase).
If you want stamps, buy them from a post office - at least they have a use.
You're probably right when it comes to finances down to the pound, doing it yourself would save yourself money IN THE LONG RUN. But peace of mind is somethign you are unable to put a clear value on, and its something I value quite highly - whether that makes me an idiot, who knows!
Its a car, its a BMW, its a great marque. Getting it serviced at a dealer for me is part of ownership and I pride myself in the fact that the car has a "pedigree"
Ah, I thought Mike misquoted you when you said "wouldn't touch a BMW with FSH" as you didn't say FBMWSH, but I realise that's what you meant(?).
For me service history is important but not necessarily BMW. My car did come with a full set of BMW stamps however, but it wasn't something I was specifically after. Since I've owned it I've done all the servicing above and beyond what the LEDs on the dash tell me needs doing and have a folder full of reciepts as "evidence" - much more that a dealer stamp IMO.
For me service history is important but not necessarily BMW. My car did come with a full set of BMW stamps however, but it wasn't something I was specifically after. Since I've owned it I've done all the servicing above and beyond what the LEDs on the dash tell me needs doing and have a folder full of reciepts as "evidence" - much more that a dealer stamp IMO.
We are now getting into the territory where a Z3 is more of a classic car and as such there will be less and less of them with FBMWSHs. When looking at a car it is nice to be able to look at a history file to see what was changed when, but you must always look to see if the work has been done competently. It is one thing to replace parts and have a receipt for it, it is quite another to see that they are fitted correctly and things haven't been bodged.
This is exactly the sort of thing that you see on much older classics and something I am learning about with my other car - some things have been done well and good quality parts have been used - some things have been codged together, like my Heath Robinson choke cable clamp - now replaced by a proper one.
In the context of this thread, I think what I am trying to say is know you limits, learn, but don't tackle things you can't do competently - your life may depend on it. It is good (and often fun) to learn to do the basics, but everyone has a point at which enough is enough.
Cheers R.
This is exactly the sort of thing that you see on much older classics and something I am learning about with my other car - some things have been done well and good quality parts have been used - some things have been codged together, like my Heath Robinson choke cable clamp - now replaced by a proper one.
In the context of this thread, I think what I am trying to say is know you limits, learn, but don't tackle things you can't do competently - your life may depend on it. It is good (and often fun) to learn to do the basics, but everyone has a point at which enough is enough.
Cheers R.
Arctic Silver '99 Z3 1.9 & Black '59 Frogeye 1275cc
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smartypants
- Joined: Tue 09 Jan, 2007 12:15
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Yes sorry - I did mean BMWSH. And yes agreed, its not the service book I am interested in, its the receipts with chassis number and mileage and full details of what went on. Just abbreviated it to "stamps"!c_w wrote:Ah, I thought Mike misquoted you when you said "wouldn't touch a BMW with FSH" as you didn't say FBMWSH, but I realise that's what you meant(?).
For me service history is important but not necessarily BMW. My car did come with a full set of BMW stamps however, but it wasn't something I was specifically after. Since I've owned it I've done all the servicing above and beyond what the LEDs on the dash tell me needs doing and have a folder full of reciepts as "evidence" - much more that a dealer stamp IMO.
Each to their own though.. anyone with good knowledge of the car can tell a stinker from a solid model - and we all know that BMWs are very solid cars on the whole.
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Guest
It depends . . .
As I mentioned earlier, it all depends on the situation in question, with those such as myself on one hand, who will keep their Z3 unto the grave, and those who buy one for the summer, then sell it for something 'sensible.'
As the market for Zeds is dominated by those who believe BMW rubber stamps are worth collecting, there is a short-term point in favour of keeping the FBMWSH, but not for those such as myself.
Do not, however, fall into believing that a BMW rubber stamp means the car has been well maintained, as an expensive annual oil change (maybe done badly) is still just an oil change, no matter how you dress it up.
I bought a nearly-new Z3 as my 'Last car' to keep for ever, so had no qualms about losing its FBMWSH in exchange for a massive saving in running costs, and the satisfaction of maintaining it myself, to a higher standard.
I still have my first BMW motorcycle, too, bought new in 1981, which was the last time it saw a dealer.
I couldn't afford to buy anything else, and there is nothing I fancy anyway - though the forthcoming Z2 may be very nice, but will doubtless be ruined by an overdose of pointless electronics.
I think those who only keep a car for a year or two miss an awful lot - a Z3 isn't just for Christmas - it's for life!
As the market for Zeds is dominated by those who believe BMW rubber stamps are worth collecting, there is a short-term point in favour of keeping the FBMWSH, but not for those such as myself.
Do not, however, fall into believing that a BMW rubber stamp means the car has been well maintained, as an expensive annual oil change (maybe done badly) is still just an oil change, no matter how you dress it up.
I bought a nearly-new Z3 as my 'Last car' to keep for ever, so had no qualms about losing its FBMWSH in exchange for a massive saving in running costs, and the satisfaction of maintaining it myself, to a higher standard.
I still have my first BMW motorcycle, too, bought new in 1981, which was the last time it saw a dealer.
I couldn't afford to buy anything else, and there is nothing I fancy anyway - though the forthcoming Z2 may be very nice, but will doubtless be ruined by an overdose of pointless electronics.
I think those who only keep a car for a year or two miss an awful lot - a Z3 isn't just for Christmas - it's for life!
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smartypants
- Joined: Tue 09 Jan, 2007 12:15
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Re: It depends . . .
Totally agree with you. I've fallen in love with my Z3 and I am finding it very hard to part with mine (turned down an offer of £5,250 yesterday) But with 96k on the clock, doing 16k+ a year another car has to be sought after (also 5 years of one car only having 2 seats is beginning be a bit restrictive).Mike Fishwick wrote:
I couldn't afford to buy anything else, and there is nothing I fancy anyway - though the forthcoming Z2 may be very nice, but will doubtless be ruined by an overdose of pointless electronics.
I think those who only keep a car for a year or two miss an awful lot - a Z3 isn't just for Christmas - it's for life!
When I move up the property ladder, I'll definitely hunt her down and buy her back!
To add to the flames, I would say that the two best Z3s that I have seen (photos only) are MFs and Deano's. What's the common factor? They haven't seen the inside of a dealership and they have been maintained by COMPETENT engineer / owners.
I totally agree with the bucketful of receipts and poor quality workmanship comments, but you won't find a car as close to perfect as MFs in the hands of an owner who only uses garages (even BMW ones).
Personally, I'm not after perfection, I'm after getting a job done right. Two stamps paid for and two jobs that had to be repeated. That says it all to me. If you want a job done well, do it yourself.
I totally agree with the bucketful of receipts and poor quality workmanship comments, but you won't find a car as close to perfect as MFs in the hands of an owner who only uses garages (even BMW ones).
Personally, I'm not after perfection, I'm after getting a job done right. Two stamps paid for and two jobs that had to be repeated. That says it all to me. If you want a job done well, do it yourself.
Pingu
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smartypants
- Joined: Tue 09 Jan, 2007 12:15
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Mike...just out of interest...what coolant do you recommend??? VW's G12+ (think that's their own brand name) is supposedly extremely long-life...I believe they claim it never needs changing (though whether I believe their claims is another thing entirely)...is this suitable for the BMW engine??? Also is it as imperative to change the coolant as regularly as it was on the old E30 2.5 engine...failure to do this ended up with a cracked cylinder head....which is always nice 
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Anti Freeze
I'm still using Smith's Bluecol, which I obtained in bulk some years ago, but any decent modern antifreeze will be fine, as they all use a low nitrate formulation. The VW 'Lifetime' stuff is fine, being made for use with alloy head/iron block engines, so it won't cause any problems on our all alloy engines - I just changed it on our Golf TDI, after about nine years.
On the Z3 I change the coolant every three years, and mix the new batch with de-mineralised water - as used on steam irons etc. Three years is probably quite conservative, due to the lack of dissimilar metal (ie no copper radiator) corrosion problems.
I always drain the block, as unless the thermostat is removed, it will retain coolant inside the block - just removing the bottom hose only drains the radiator.
On the Z3 I change the coolant every three years, and mix the new batch with de-mineralised water - as used on steam irons etc. Three years is probably quite conservative, due to the lack of dissimilar metal (ie no copper radiator) corrosion problems.
I always drain the block, as unless the thermostat is removed, it will retain coolant inside the block - just removing the bottom hose only drains the radiator.
