3.0L vs 3.2M
3.0L vs 3.2M
Just "throwing this out there".
Been trawling through ad's for a 3.2m Roadster with low miles. Just don't know whether I'm doing the "right" thing.
I've finally got my 3.0 just looking exactly as I want it.
I drive the car everyday, it returns 28-29mpg, and performance is really strong.
Never any mechanical issues (touch wood) and it drives as sweet as a nut. Could do with a louder exhaust tho
So WHY OH WHY do I still want an M????? ....must be penis envy or sumthin
Been trawling through ad's for a 3.2m Roadster with low miles. Just don't know whether I'm doing the "right" thing.
I've finally got my 3.0 just looking exactly as I want it.
I drive the car everyday, it returns 28-29mpg, and performance is really strong.
Never any mechanical issues (touch wood) and it drives as sweet as a nut. Could do with a louder exhaust tho
So WHY OH WHY do I still want an M????? ....must be penis envy or sumthin
Silver Z3 3Litre " gone "
Re: 3.0L vs 3.2M
I suppose it's psychologically knowing you've got the best model of the car that was made.LEX77 wrote: So WHY OH WHY do I still want an M????? ....must be penis envy or sumthin
Now: Z3M Estoril Blue
Re: 3.0L vs 3.2M
fastest yes (without doubt)... best model?.. probably debateable.. don't get me wrong.. I like everything about the Z3M (apart from the rear! LOL!) - but the reason there is a variety of models is due to the fact there is a variety of requirements from buyers.. some people think their ideal model is a 1.9 whereas others wouldn't drive anything less than 3.2M - horses for courses really!Z3_TJK wrote:I suppose it's psychologically knowing you've got the best model of the car that was made.LEX77 wrote: So WHY OH WHY do I still want an M????? ....must be penis envy or sumthin
Surely if there wasn't any issues with, running costs, everyone would have the most powerfull and fastest model out there????
Only issues (that don't bother me) I can see with having an M are....
Under 20mpg
Group 20 insurance
Parts and service prices
Vanos trouble
Image
I just don't know....
Am I just tryin to convince myself that I need one. There's more than enough grunt to get into trouble in my current Zed.
Mine is a 2001 3 Litre
52k, FSH, 3 lights.
Titanium Silver
Black hood
Blue leather (not sport seats)
18" DTM invoit alloys with 9" rear. 225/40 + 255/35
Eibach 30mm springs
Alpine amp (hidden)
Alpine speakers (footwell and tweeters)
Business 6 x CD
Air-con.
What do you reckon its worth?? In todays climate???
Only issues (that don't bother me) I can see with having an M are....
Under 20mpg
Group 20 insurance
Parts and service prices
Vanos trouble
Image
I just don't know....
Am I just tryin to convince myself that I need one. There's more than enough grunt to get into trouble in my current Zed.
Mine is a 2001 3 Litre
52k, FSH, 3 lights.
Titanium Silver
Black hood
Blue leather (not sport seats)
18" DTM invoit alloys with 9" rear. 225/40 + 255/35
Eibach 30mm springs
Alpine amp (hidden)
Alpine speakers (footwell and tweeters)
Business 6 x CD
Air-con.
What do you reckon its worth?? In todays climate???
Silver Z3 3Litre " gone "
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Id stick with the 3.0 and wait until you see some sports seats come up and you would have pretty much my perfect Z3.
Having the M would be great but you know your car well by now and have spent money getting it how you want.
Power and handling wise I don't think theres enough difference to warrant throwing away the time, love and money spent on the 3.0l - keep the 3.0l dude, it is the nuts.
Having the M would be great but you know your car well by now and have spent money getting it how you want.
Power and handling wise I don't think theres enough difference to warrant throwing away the time, love and money spent on the 3.0l - keep the 3.0l dude, it is the nuts.
It's called Progression, I did the same coming from the 2.8
The ///M will cost more on a daily basis in the long run but will be worth more than the 3.0
Take yer pick
The ///M will cost more on a daily basis in the long run but will be worth more than the 3.0
Take yer pick
Gazza
"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you"
Z3 S54 M roadster , BMW Z1, BMW M3 CSL, Z4M Coupe
"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you"
Z3 S54 M roadster , BMW Z1, BMW M3 CSL, Z4M Coupe
I must think differently from most people then! LOL!.. I'm more than happy with my 2.8.. and probably would have been equally happy if I ended up with a 2.2.. I doubt I would be anymore happier in a Z3M (for what I wanted it for).. everyone's different though! And I'm not that interested in the traffic light grand prix or pub talk anymore!LEX77 wrote:Surely if there wasn't any issues with, running costs, everyone would have the most powerfull and fastest model out there?????
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The M is obviously the best z3 you can get in most ways, but its not as much of a difference between the 3.0 and the M as there is between a 2.7 boxster and the 3.2 boxster-S.
If you get an M try and buy from a member so you have a better idea of the history, you need on as well looked after as your 3.0l!
I have a feeling you would be happy either way, but saying you own an M would be niiiice.
If you get an M try and buy from a member so you have a better idea of the history, you need on as well looked after as your 3.0l!
I have a feeling you would be happy either way, but saying you own an M would be niiiice.
Re: 3.0L vs 3.2M
I agree. I feel secure by the fact that I can floor my 1.9 w/o the fear of getting a speeding ticket or killing myself.......Pangster wrote: horses for courses really!
.........or perhaps I just don't have any problems with any of my body parts
Sorry - but that counts for absolutely nothing.. I wouldn't look at a fellow members car any differently than I would look at any private sale. Just because they are a member of a forum/club doesn't mean that it's any less likely that its going to have been abused etcdanieltharris wrote: If you get an M try and buy from a member so you have a better idea of the history, you need on as well looked after as your 3.0l!
For example - some members sign up here purely to advertise their cars.. other examples are where cars have gone wrong and the members have knowingly moved them on - even if they were traded in at dealers etc, ultimately they'll end up in someone's ownership and they're going to end up with the headaches some else avoided.
TBH - if you like the Z3M styling then fair enough - but replica's can be and have been built - the 1.9 on PH for example.. so why spend £3-£4k more if you just want the looks?
If you want the performance and are other wise happy with your car then look at power getters i.e. superchargers etc.. benefit is cost differential probably won't be as much, performance will be similar/negligible difference and you already have the car looking how you want it as well as knowing the history etc
Lex
Marketing companies spend millions of pounds to put you in this delema. we really are a throw away society. I have been as guilty as anyone (and more so than most) of swapping cars far too often in my youth for all the wrong reason. The best car I ever had when I look back was one I kept for 6 years through necessity to save up to buy my first house. It was by no means the best car I have ever owned but it brings back the fondest memories as I had it for so long. There are plenty of great sports cars I owned for a year and changed through ego and I can't even remember driving now (or the money that would be in my bank account!)
Of course people need to change cars but it should be for the right reasons. Those could simply be that the car is not "liked" any more to reliability etc....
Sounds to me by the very fact that you are thinking this way is that you have simply become "bored" with your current car. I can fully understand this and you will have a true head versus heart debate with yourself (head says don't change, heart says do it). At the end of the day so long as you are honest with yourself and are realistic as to the pros and cons then make a decision and don't regret it, life is too short. It is easy for me to say stick with what yo have got, when I would have done the complete opposite years ago
The only fact is that both are great cars (and I'm luvin my ///M )
Marketing companies spend millions of pounds to put you in this delema. we really are a throw away society. I have been as guilty as anyone (and more so than most) of swapping cars far too often in my youth for all the wrong reason. The best car I ever had when I look back was one I kept for 6 years through necessity to save up to buy my first house. It was by no means the best car I have ever owned but it brings back the fondest memories as I had it for so long. There are plenty of great sports cars I owned for a year and changed through ego and I can't even remember driving now (or the money that would be in my bank account!)
Of course people need to change cars but it should be for the right reasons. Those could simply be that the car is not "liked" any more to reliability etc....
Sounds to me by the very fact that you are thinking this way is that you have simply become "bored" with your current car. I can fully understand this and you will have a true head versus heart debate with yourself (head says don't change, heart says do it). At the end of the day so long as you are honest with yourself and are realistic as to the pros and cons then make a decision and don't regret it, life is too short. It is easy for me to say stick with what yo have got, when I would have done the complete opposite years ago
The only fact is that both are great cars (and I'm luvin my ///M )
There is no reason NOT to buy the Z3M out of all the Z3 Roadsters other than your budget/how much you're prepared to pay; any other reasons and you're just kidding yourself Obviously this was much more prevelant when they were newer.
However as you have a 3.0 now, the step up isn't massive, particularly as the 3.0 is a great engine, lightweight, reliable and good power. If you're getting 28mpg from the 3.0 you'll prob see just over 20 with the M; sounds like short trips or fairly hard driving all the time!
IMO, keep the 3.0 and make the jump to the Z4M in a couple of years. That way you get the top model and a new car in one
However as you have a 3.0 now, the step up isn't massive, particularly as the 3.0 is a great engine, lightweight, reliable and good power. If you're getting 28mpg from the 3.0 you'll prob see just over 20 with the M; sounds like short trips or fairly hard driving all the time!
IMO, keep the 3.0 and make the jump to the Z4M in a couple of years. That way you get the top model and a new car in one
Last edited by c_w on Tue 28 Apr, 2009 13:28, edited 3 times in total.
- pop_sausage
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a bit of a different perspective, I went from the z4 3.0 to z4 3.2. Whist the z4m is a better all round car than the 3.0l - it's not worth the extra I'm paying/paid over my old 3.0L IMO. Yes the power is amazing, but then the 3.0L was a capable engine as well and offered 90% of usable power as the M does in a real world driving - infact, better low down pull. I was never left thinking I need more when I had it.
Where the M comes to life is the handling and the LSD makes it less twitchy and more exploitable in an amateur's hands - it's how the standard z4s should have been in the first place. Not driven a z3 for years but I imagine the difference is also visible here too between non M and M derivatives.
I paid the same for a 2yo 3.0L in 2005 as I did for a 1yo M in 2008 so that was a major factor for my replacement.
Where the M comes to life is the handling and the LSD makes it less twitchy and more exploitable in an amateur's hands - it's how the standard z4s should have been in the first place. Not driven a z3 for years but I imagine the difference is also visible here too between non M and M derivatives.
I paid the same for a 2yo 3.0L in 2005 as I did for a 1yo M in 2008 so that was a major factor for my replacement.
- smartypants
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Continuing off tangent, I'd rather have the 3.0si engine in the Z4 than the Z4M.
But I much prefer the styling of the Z4M, and the fact its an ///M
Back to the Z3, and indeed ///M ownership in general - I think owning an ///M is something special, and I wouldn't compare it to the standard range at all, in any way.
Do your sums, if you can afford to run an ///M then go for it. You certainly won't be disappointed, or miss the 3.0.
But I much prefer the styling of the Z4M, and the fact its an ///M
Back to the Z3, and indeed ///M ownership in general - I think owning an ///M is something special, and I wouldn't compare it to the standard range at all, in any way.
Do your sums, if you can afford to run an ///M then go for it. You certainly won't be disappointed, or miss the 3.0.
- pop_sausage
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The limiting performance factor for most road users is their own ability.
So if you're bored, maybe look at some advanced road lesson from the likes of http://www.cadence.co.uk/ or others that are advertised in the back of EVO etc .
Learn how to exploit what you have now...
So if you're bored, maybe look at some advanced road lesson from the likes of http://www.cadence.co.uk/ or others that are advertised in the back of EVO etc .
Learn how to exploit what you have now...
i just love the shape of the zm better than the z3,in a mature mans world,this is how i see it
1.the z3 is joanna lumley in a suit
2.the zm is joanna lumley in stockings
not must differance but number 2 just looks better
1.the z3 is joanna lumley in a suit
2.the zm is joanna lumley in stockings
not must differance but number 2 just looks better
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I know what you mean Lex, we currently have a well spec’ed 2.8, but can’t help being drawn towards the M’s. I think we will sit tight a while longer and maybe get an M coupe and keep the 2.8 (my wife will never sell it now!)
The only thing that stopped us going for an M in the first place was a German guy that I work with told me that if you plan on keeping the car a long time, M parts can become difficult to get hold of and will definitely command a higher M price tag as the years go by. (I should not of listerned to him and just bought one )
The only thing that stopped us going for an M in the first place was a German guy that I work with told me that if you plan on keeping the car a long time, M parts can become difficult to get hold of and will definitely command a higher M price tag as the years go by. (I should not of listerned to him and just bought one )
When I looked at buying a Z I could have gotten a newer 3.0 but went for the M purely for the looks and the uprated suspesion and engine but knowing I would pay more for my runing cost but I'm still smiling at the pump as I put another £42 worth of Tesco's 99' in though. Saying this though I would have liked the traction control and computer.
If you like gaming with mature minded players visit our retirement home http://www.oap-clan.co.uk/
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- whiteminks
- Joined: Tue 26 Sep, 2006 09:58
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Thanks Stu, it's nice to be admired for my balls!
Seriously I did think about the 3.0 or the ///M but Spokey advised me that I wouldn't really notice enough difference between my 2.2 and the 3.0.
I did opt for the S54 with traction control though.......... not sure if my balls would have been big enough to have the S50
Traction control does mean I have driven my ///M in the winter though and it was great when we had lots of snow.
I love my ///M........... that power is unbelievable and it is great to have my 2.2 as my daily driver too.
Seriously I did think about the 3.0 or the ///M but Spokey advised me that I wouldn't really notice enough difference between my 2.2 and the 3.0.
I did opt for the S54 with traction control though.......... not sure if my balls would have been big enough to have the S50
Traction control does mean I have driven my ///M in the winter though and it was great when we had lots of snow.
I love my ///M........... that power is unbelievable and it is great to have my 2.2 as my daily driver too.
big cheesy wrote:'I nearly cacked my trolleys till I quickly tuned in'. Yorkshire Cruise 2008.
- PhoenixCoupe
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Even less between the 3.0si and the Z4M. Unless there's a financial reason to change, it's not really worth it, even with normal power steering and so on.pop_sausage wrote:a bit of a different perspective, I went from the z4 3.0 to z4 3.2. Whist the z4m is a better all round car than the 3.0l - it's not worth the extra I'm paying/paid over my old 3.0L IMO. Yes the power is amazing, but then the 3.0L was a capable engine as well and offered 90% of usable power as the M does in a real world driving - infact, better low down pull. I was never left thinking I need more when I had it.
押忍!闘え!応援団
If you're happy with the way your car looks but are unsure whether you need an extra 100bhp or so, ask yourself this... how many times have you been beaten from the lights in a traffic light grandprix?
Sure, the Z3M is half a second or so quicker to 60mph, and probably quicker in gear to. But does this warrant stretching your budget just to have the "top-of-the-range" model?
Thinking about it, I suppose it does and if I could convince myself that I could afford to run, maintain and repair an M, I'd have one!
Sure, the Z3M is half a second or so quicker to 60mph, and probably quicker in gear to. But does this warrant stretching your budget just to have the "top-of-the-range" model?
Thinking about it, I suppose it does and if I could convince myself that I could afford to run, maintain and repair an M, I'd have one!
Go for a test drive that'll help with the decision
Before I bought my first Zed I went through the same process. Don't get me wrong, I loved my 2.8 but the ///M is a totally different car.
Before I bought my first Zed I went through the same process. Don't get me wrong, I loved my 2.8 but the ///M is a totally different car.
Gazza
"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you"
Z3 S54 M roadster , BMW Z1, BMW M3 CSL, Z4M Coupe
"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you"
Z3 S54 M roadster , BMW Z1, BMW M3 CSL, Z4M Coupe
- smartypants
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I agree, as I said before - I think the 3.0si is the better engine, its fantastic.PhoenixCoupe wrote:Even less between the 3.0si and the Z4M. Unless there's a financial reason to change, it's not really worth it, even with normal power steering and so on.pop_sausage wrote:a bit of a different perspective, I went from the z4 3.0 to z4 3.2. Whist the z4m is a better all round car than the 3.0l - it's not worth the extra I'm paying/paid over my old 3.0L IMO. Yes the power is amazing, but then the 3.0L was a capable engine as well and offered 90% of usable power as the M does in a real world driving - infact, better low down pull. I was never left thinking I need more when I had it.
- smartypants
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I test drove an S50 and then settled on a 2.2 sportgarythefish wrote: Go for a test drive that'll help with the decision
Before I bought my first Zed I went through the same process. Don't get me wrong, I loved my 2.8 but the ///M is a totally different car.
Solely on practicalities though as it wass going to be my daily drive of 18k miles a year
///M was cheaper to buy too!
A financial reason to change is usually when debating a "downgrade", a financial excuse would probably be the right term to change to a Z4MPhoenixCoupe wrote:Even less between the 3.0si and the Z4M. Unless there's a financial reason to change, it's not really worth it, even with normal power steering and so on.pop_sausage wrote:a bit of a different perspective, I went from the z4 3.0 to z4 3.2. Whist the z4m is a better all round car than the 3.0l - it's not worth the extra I'm paying/paid over my old 3.0L IMO. Yes the power is amazing, but then the 3.0L was a capable engine as well and offered 90% of usable power as the M does in a real world driving - infact, better low down pull. I was never left thinking I need more when I had it.
I don't think the 3.0 has more power or torque anywhere (RPM) than the 3.2 though (either 3.0 vs S50 or 3.0si vs S54 Z4M).
- PhoenixCoupe
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I'd disagree - I've never had any problems keeping up with other people in Z3M's or Z4M's - on the road or on the track in my 3.0si, and neither has Dario in his 3.0i.
When I was looking at buying mine, I tried both models, and 99% of the time the M is no quicker and offers no real benefit over the 3.0si. It's a lot heavier on fuel, insurance is higher, as is road tax. I haven't regretted my decision once.
The days of the M cars being a level above the standard models is long gone I'm afraid, especially with things like the 135, 335i and 335d....
When I was looking at buying mine, I tried both models, and 99% of the time the M is no quicker and offers no real benefit over the 3.0si. It's a lot heavier on fuel, insurance is higher, as is road tax. I haven't regretted my decision once.
The days of the M cars being a level above the standard models is long gone I'm afraid, especially with things like the 135, 335i and 335d....
押忍!闘え!応援団
- smartypants
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Especially when you bring into the equation very cheap remaps on cars like the 335i and 335d - which are now becoming the "normal" thing to do, they are actually quicker in every day driving conditions, whilst being far more economical to own.
As I said before, its more about owning an ///M derivative, than any real performance increase - which is becoming less and less of a gap.
As I said before, its more about owning an ///M derivative, than any real performance increase - which is becoming less and less of a gap.
Just met up this morning (lovely sunny day, just right) with a friend of mine who has a 98 Estoril Blue M.
I drove both cars back to back over a couple of hours.
Whilst both cars performance below 70mph seemed actually VERY similar, the in gear shove of the M would I think leave the 3.0 whilst accelerationg from a rolling 50mph up to who knows
My exhaust sound (standard 3.0) seemed a lot deeper than the M around town in 4th. Higher revs the M sounded great though.
The M seemed more of a "raw" experience to the 3.0L (which isn't by any means a comfortable or luxurious drive)
Decided (for know )Keeping the Three point 0.
Not worth the change in my humble opinion, which may change, as it so frequently does.
I believe I can exploit probably 90 perecent of the 3.0L's capabilities, which I've come a customed to.
Not so sure with the M, but I think maybe this was down to the tyre and brake wear on his particular car. Drove an M once before and sure it was better than his (sorry fella)
Very glad I did this.
On another note.....
Not a fan of the looks of the Z4. I had the choice at the dealers of 3.0L Z3 or 3.0L Z4 when I bought mine (only 3.4k difference). Think the 3 will age better.
I drove both cars back to back over a couple of hours.
Whilst both cars performance below 70mph seemed actually VERY similar, the in gear shove of the M would I think leave the 3.0 whilst accelerationg from a rolling 50mph up to who knows
My exhaust sound (standard 3.0) seemed a lot deeper than the M around town in 4th. Higher revs the M sounded great though.
The M seemed more of a "raw" experience to the 3.0L (which isn't by any means a comfortable or luxurious drive)
Decided (for know )Keeping the Three point 0.
Not worth the change in my humble opinion, which may change, as it so frequently does.
I believe I can exploit probably 90 perecent of the 3.0L's capabilities, which I've come a customed to.
Not so sure with the M, but I think maybe this was down to the tyre and brake wear on his particular car. Drove an M once before and sure it was better than his (sorry fella)
Very glad I did this.
On another note.....
Not a fan of the looks of the Z4. I had the choice at the dealers of 3.0L Z3 or 3.0L Z4 when I bought mine (only 3.4k difference). Think the 3 will age better.
Silver Z3 3Litre " gone "
I don't doubt for a second the 3.0/3.0si is a great engine but it's not as powerful as the M engine but like you say in the real world there isn't loads in it in give or take situations. Many quickish cars appear to be similar "on the road" and perhaps on track too. As I said earlier and you agree, it's purely budget that dictates what you buy. I was thinking last year about a 3.0Si Z4C as the Z4MC was a bit too pricey!PhoenixCoupe wrote:I'd disagree - I've never had any problems keeping up with other people in Z3M's or Z4M's - on the road or on the track in my 3.0si, and neither has Dario in his 3.0i.
When I was looking at buying mine, I tried both models, and 99% of the time the M is no quicker and offers no real benefit over the 3.0si. It's a lot heavier on fuel, insurance is higher, as is road tax. I haven't regretted my decision once.
Last edited by c_w on Wed 29 Apr, 2009 15:53, edited 3 times in total.
Chipping a 335d to be as quick as an M3 is a whole different ball game IMO; driving pleasure on track/fast road of a diesel is about 2/10 vs 8/10 for an M engine. Diesels are best at swift effortless performance, start extending them and the aural sensation or lack of wanes.smartypants wrote:Especially when you bring into the equation very cheap remaps on cars like the 335i and 335d - which are now becoming the "normal" thing to do, they are actually quicker in every day driving conditions, whilst being far more economical to own.
As I said before, its more about owning an ///M derivative, than any real performance increase - which is becoming less and less of a gap.
- PhoenixCoupe
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Actually budget didn't factor into it at all - I could have bought any BMW from the current range. But, the M wasn't £10k more of a car.c_w wrote: As I said earlier and you agree, it's purely budget that dictates what you buy. I was thinking last year about a 3.0Si Z4C as the Z4MC was a bit too pricey!
押忍!闘え!応援団
LOL!PhoenixCoupe wrote:Actually budget didn't factor into it at all - I could have bought any BMW from the current range. But, the M wasn't £10k more of a car.c_w wrote: As I said earlier and you agree, it's purely budget that dictates what you buy. I was thinking last year about a 3.0Si Z4C as the Z4MC was a bit too pricey!
Budget!PhoenixCoupe wrote:But, the M wasn't £10k more of a car.c_w wrote: As I said earlier and you agree, it's purely budget that dictates what you buy. I was thinking last year about a 3.0Si Z4C as the Z4MC was a bit too pricey!
Seriously though, I can see where you're coming from and I would also consider a 3.0si over a Z4M IF I couldn't afford/wasn't perpared to pay for and run a Z4M. Not saying you couldn't/can't afford an Z4MC as you're loaded , but cost aside the Z4M has the better engine, suspension, diff etc so for me if I could I would. But the 3.0Si is not, by a long shot, a bad 2nd best.
- PhoenixCoupe
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- smartypants
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Oh I agree entirely - but we were talking about performance comparisons and was just putting my oar in regarding modern diesel saloonsc_w wrote:Chipping a 335d to be as quick as an M3 is a whole different ball game IMO; driving pleasure on track/fast road of a diesel is about 2/10 vs 8/10 for an M engine. Diesels are best at swift effortless performance, start extending them and the aural sensation or lack of wanes.smartypants wrote:Especially when you bring into the equation very cheap remaps on cars like the 335i and 335d - which are now becoming the "normal" thing to do, they are actually quicker in every day driving conditions, whilst being far more economical to own.
As I said before, its more about owning an ///M derivative, than any real performance increase - which is becoming less and less of a gap.