z3 choices from a newbie - caution long one!

[hoyleyboyley]

hi guys and gals,

been lurking for a few days, and soaking up lots of info!

currently i'm driving an E34 540 6sp manual which i dearly love - its quick, practical and has a lovely V8 bassy thump to the engine.
only the old girl isn't getting any younger, and i'm getting tired of doing those niggly jobs that occasionally arise. (or more importantly getting someone else to do them ) (along with the missus telling me to get rid of that old heap )

so i'm interested in Z3's, they seem to fit the bill of something completely different to the 540, newer, look the part, are RWD, quick enough and offer bmw reliability.

now i'm a big lad, 6"4 and 18 odd stone. went and sat in one on saturday to try them out for size and i do fit. didn;t test drive as it was an auto and i'm not interested - just wanted to check them out for size really.
i commute into town everyday so don't NEED a car as such, my useage is low - approx 5k p/a mostly made up of a couple of times a week to the local gym, weekend use to the shops, the occasional weekend away with the missus, 2 trips a year to the 'ring and one or two trackdays in the uk.

my problem is, i want an M, of course i do , but i don't want the expense of buying an M over a 'normal' car, or the extra maintenance costs on an M engine.

M's seem to start at 8k and go up, M coupes start at 9k and go up. whereas a 2.8 can be got for as little as 4k.
2.8's are 193hp and with a few mods on the intake can be increased to 230ish apparently.

so that's a 4k premium for 100hp if you choose to buy an M car.
Vanos on the M's means increased maintenance costs and if vanos goes wrong then you're looking at a few grand to rebuild or a new engine = £££.
2.8s seem to be pretty straightforward and bullet proof. fill with fluids and enjoy.

for £1500 you can bolt on a dinan supercharger that will instantly give you another 100hp - which puts it at 300 odd which is well into M territory. (plus, with purchase price of a 2.8 at 4500 and the 'charger kit at 1500, you're still getting a 300hp car for cheaper than the cost of an M. and 'charger kit can always be sold on).

i still want to do the odd trackday and 'ring weekends and the thought of *potentially* crashing 8 or 9 grands worth of M car (to me) would be a big deal. also buying the more expensive M right now would SERIOUSLY skint me out to come up with that much dosh in one hit. at least if i went for a 2.8 i could buy some go faster bits over a period of time and spread the cost.
also, it would mean i had some savings left over to do those niggly jobs that you get with a new second hand car.

or there's the 3.0 which is 230hp as std (and is apparently the 2.8 bored out a bit more.)
of course i do actually still need to drive a 2.8 to prove the fact that 193 donkeys is enough . i could test drive one and decide instantly that it's not enough and a 3.0 or the M is the way forward.

my 5 series is 300hp and 300 ft/lbs of torque. yes its a bigger, heavier car, (only about 200kg suprisingly) but it will pick up from any gear at any revs and go. not willy waving, but on the autobahn on the way home from the ring last time, 3 up, all our gear for the weekend, boot full of tools, A/c on, we hit 159mph on the GPS. kept up with my mates e36 m3 EVO no problems at all. it's a quick car. so my concern is that a 2.8 won't be quick enough compared to what i'm used to.

right now i'm thinking pre facelift 2.8, do the intake mods and if i really get on with the car then then consider either 'charger kit or maybe different engine (LS1/LS3?).

but i still need to know a few things about Z's.

practicality - what's the cubby hole in the rear wall between then seats for? one the one i viewed i could just about have got a pair of sunnys in there!! i was expecting it to be bigger.

2.8s
was there an M-tec/sport kit/model available? what are the signs of this being on the car?

did 2.8s come with LSD? if not, has anyone fitted one from across the bmw range? costs? ease of install? short of dropping a massize set of 11's on a test drive or jacking the car up and turning wheels, is there a way to tell buy documentation?

how reliable are M52's? any useful info to know?

has anyone swapped over seats for aftermarket buckets or M seats? how easy?

M
are the M seats 'thinner' than the standard seats? my concern is that i wont even fit behind the wheel when in the bucket/vader type seats?

any updates on vanos maintenance issues?

cheers for reading my rambling to the end , i look forward to hearing back from a few of you.

any info gratefully received.

[BonBon]

6'4" seems like a tight fit to me.
I hate getting tight shoes that I curse-out throughout their limited lifetime until they find their way to the Salvation Army.
At 5'8" it's comfy - but not like getting out of a MPV. (perhaps it's the 50+ )

[markrnorton]

hi there

I'm just going down the supercharger route myself

all i'd say is budget for some suspension/bushes and brake upgrades as well. - otherwise you may end up in a hedge somewhere !

with the blower on i guess you'd be close to the torque figures of the 540i. (i had one of these in E39 guise).

You'll find the z far more nimble.

[Mr Adds]

I am 6 ft 4 and 18 stone and just fit in my Z3. Its a 2.2 sport so has the sports seats which are similar to the seats in the M I think.

There is always the kudos of having an M, but there isnt much between the M and the 3.0 performance wise and the M's seems to have more issues, but if it was me I'd go down the M route....

[Jonttt]

Welcome on board

In terms of car size, I'm 6ft and 18 stone (ish!!!!!!) and the Z is one of the few smallish sports cars I can fit in. BMW's in general are fine for those of us on the larger size. I also have an ///M so in particular the only issues with your size will be :

- rear view mirror will obscure part of your view as its very large and your head will be high up. Would be annoying if this was my main drive but it isn't and you get used to it.

- Drivers wing mirror leaves a massive blind spot with seat fully back (which you will need to do). I fitted a small blind spot mirror which just sticks on and is great.

- Steering wheel is slightly too big and can catch my thigh on tight fast turns (well my knuckles do). I am goign to upgrade to a raid one to maintain airbag but they are expensive and with current euro rate will have to wait until next year. In everyday driving its fine though.

The seat on an ///M are ace and really really comfortable.

On other matters there is a well established replacement service from america for the VANOS unit and worst case it can be replaced for £650ish fitted. May take a few weeks but if not your only car is a great option and gives piece of mind.

Otherwise I think you need to take a 2.8/3.0///M for a good drive to really compare and you will know. You really need to be able to take the cars out for 30 min to get a good feel for them. Bare in mind an ///M can take 10 min to get to temp before going over 4,000 RPM.

I've not driven a 2.8 or 3 litre Z but I have had the 3 series equivalents - all I'll say is those who say there is no difference to an ///M have never driven one properly but the 2.8/3.0 engines are superb engines. For everyday use I would recommend these, but for pure driving pleasure I'll take my ///M any day

nb everyday cruising your 5 series will be just as good. I currently have a 530 as my daily drive and flooring it on the motorway I always think its as fast as the ///M. Then I have a flying trip back from leeds as I did at the weekend and its put in its place

[c_w]

Sounds like you need to look a 3.0litre which is 230bhp stock I think and very quick. 6'4 is very tall though, I find the cabin just right at 5'10, anyhting more and I'd feel like I'm sat "on" the car rather than in it!!

[triumphted]

Can'tcomment on the modifying business, have no experience of it.
I have a 98 2.8 and love it. I am 6'2'' 16 stone and fit very well. Your height and size are well accommodated in the zed.
Power wise, well my daily driver is an A3 2.0 fsi, which would i guess keep up with the zed, but would scream its heart out doing it, the zed as you will know will purrr. I drive my cars hard and have driven performance cars - generally over 160bhp for last ten years, the zed excites like many of them never did. You really have to have a spin in a 2.8 and a 3.0, as for the M, well as you point out it is a lot more cash for potentially more grief, for extra power you will rarely use...
Finding a good 2.8 or 3.0 will also be alot easier...

[aceman]

In terms of LSD's mine hasn't got one but others have. You can get a printout from your local BMW dealer to see what options the car left the factory with so that maybe a route to find out. I really like the 2.8 and use as my daily drive but I have always got that hankering for the //M but wonder if I could justify the running costs, maybe if I ever found the perfect one with the vanos replaced and all the other boxes ticked it might just be too much of a temptation.

All the best with the search and I am sure whatever you choose you will enjoy it.

[hoyleyboyley]

thanks guys, keep it coming!

anyone know if the 3.0 can be improved with mods performance wise?

i'm under no illusion that the M will be streets ahead in terms of 'go'.
i'm imagining that the 2.8 / 3.0 are much more similar, and could be mistaken for each other (with only 25hp in it), but if you've ever driven an M then you know its got some serious grunt.

[BonBon]

Check how far your skull will be from the softop supporting bar.
At 6'4" I suspect you'll be in "emergency" after a single speed bump.

[skeete]

I have been scouring the web for 3.0 mods, but they are few and far between, generally with a price tag 75% more than if it were a jap crap mod like HKS for example.

the only real mod is a supercharger which will set you back $4-5k + fitting. Better off going for a M if power is everything, there are LOADS more mods for the M as well.

[gookah]

I have the 3.0 and its a grin-manufacturing machine. buy one and have fun!