diff and boot welds!

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SP30
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  Z3 roadster 3.0i
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diff and boot welds!

Post by SP30 »

Hi,
Is the boot welds failing an issue on a 2001 Z3 3.0i or had they resolved it by then, ie. do I have to check, get a garage too.

thanks in advance Ian.
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Robin
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Post by Robin »

Don't know if the 3.0's were beefed up underneath.
I guess you've seen this thread with details on what to look for.
http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopi ... 64&start=0
The 3.0 engine produces almost as much torque as the M///.
300Nm vs 350Nm, so probably could tear the diff mount & the boot spot welds. Yet at the same time I've not heard of a 3.0 with this problem !
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SP30
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Post by SP30 »

Thanks for the link, will check it out. My fingers are x'ed
BATTERZEE
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  Z3 roadster 3.0i
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Post by BATTERZEE »

JEEEEZ, have just read this and related topics and having just parted with a reasonable amount of dosh for my Z, am now in a state of shock. :shock:

Straight down to garage now to look at my boot floor. Car going into an indi on Thursday for a once over, will get them to look at the diff bracket.

You know sometimes I wonder if ignorance IS bliss. :(
Last edited by BATTERZEE on Tue 04 Aug, 2009 14:03, edited 2 times in total.
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SP30
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Post by SP30 »

Just pulled the carpet and tools out of my car and the spot welds look fine, as does the diff mount.
BATTERZEE
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Post by BATTERZEE »

There is a matting (sound proofing, I think) glued over most of the spot welds so can only see two on the nearside, but they look fine.

However there is another weld just forward of the spots that looks like a mig weld intrusion from below. There is no evidence of post manufacture painting so it does look like part of the production process. The car production date is 20.03.2001 so could this be evidence of extra welding on later models to 'cure' the known fault? Would be nice to think so.

This shows matting.
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These show the two spot welds and the third weld.
Image

Image

As this fault is obviously a problem of over-stress on the diff mounting it would be interesting to know if it's right across the range of engine types or mostly confined to the larger engines. Also whether it equally effects auto gearbox models as it is well known that automatics are generally kinder on transmissions due to torque delivery being 'softer'.
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BATTERZEE
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Post by BATTERZEE »

I have just noticed whilst reading 'unread posts' that there was another topic started yesterday on this same subject 'Newcomer-grateful for any advice'.

Would it be prudent if one of the Mods could merge these topics? Just a thought.
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Jonttt
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Post by Jonttt »

Batterzee, yours looks fine form the spot welds ie you would see some rusting from water ingress underneath if they had broken.

There is a thought that the later models had a stronger diff bracket, certainly the remedial part seems to be made from "thicker" metal but as BMW have always denied the problem publicaly they will never admit to changing the design as implies there was a reason to change it :head:

If you car is going to an indy anyway ask them to check the diff bracket for a crack anyway but would be handy if you took them a picture of what to look for (some may take offence at this :wink: ) as I've heard of it being easily missed as the cracks (or small tare in the metal) can be hard to see unless up on a ramp and you look carefully.
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Titan
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Post by Titan »

BATTERZEE wrote: However there is another weld just forward of the spots that looks like a mig weld intrusion from below. There is no evidence of post manufacture painting so it does look like part of the production process. The car production date is 20.03.2001 so could this be evidence of extra welding on later models to 'cure' the known fault? Would be nice to think so.
I think you can say it's part of the production process Here's a pic of our 2.2i build date 9/2001 :wink:
I was going to say "snap" but it didn't seem particularly appropriate :lol:
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Image :devil:
BATTERZEE
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Post by BATTERZEE »

Titan wrote: I was going to say "snap" but it didn't seem particularly appropriate :lol
:lol: :lol: :lol: Nice one.
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Jonttt
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Post by Jonttt »

Don't encourage him :wink:
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Deano1712
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Post by Deano1712 »

Its interesting to see that evidence of the later car having more weld. Its hardly a big improvement in strength though, I dont know why the weld pitch wasnt halved to double up the weld strength. Thats the heart of the problem.

If you take any z3 with any sized engine and launch in first with the rears screeching the cross member gets pulled down around 550kg. This imparts high stresses - I once did a spreadsheet showing loads and stresses, having measured the geometry of the cross memeber when mine was in pieces. The problem is therefore not necessarily restricted to the bigger engined cars but of course it is easier and more tempting to light up the rears in the M :wink:
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Frank.A
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Post by Frank.A »

Is the extra weld actually on the crossmember to boot floor or for something else such as an exhaust hanger?

As Deano says they were not making much effort to eradicate the problem.Aircraft structures that I have been involved with over the years either had fasteners (usually rivets) at relatively small pitch, as low as 20mm,or in more recent years were fully bonded. This reduces the amount of movement as the components work against each other in the fatigue cycle.

Regards,
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SP30
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Post by SP30 »

My Z3 2001 3.0i is the same as above image, with what appears to be spot welds then a 2nd line of welds next to them.

..no sign of any damage..
evzed
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Post by evzed »

checked my 1997 2.8 yesterday and no sign of any deteroraition to any spot welds,she is up on 94k and done 4000 miles since i bought her in June this year after only doing 3000 miles in the last 3 years, she makes me smile every time i see her, so im breathing a huge sigh of relief i really didn't want the hassle of the big repair. Shall have a another good look underneath when i can get her up on the lift at my mates garage.but so far so good :D
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Post by BATTERZEE »

Just back from the Indi who checked the 'Z' over and under. I asked about the boot floor/diff bracket problem and he had seen a few, mostly 'M's and never an automatic.

Would seem its the 'traffic light Gran Prix' mob that have the most problems. :D

Went to Paddock Motors, Exeter on recommendation of members of this forum, cheers lads - reco spot on :wink:

Bought the car via Pistonheads, previous owner was also a member on here, Texasjohn, he said it was a good'n and he wasn't kidding. Mark (Paddock Motors) remarked that it was the best example they had had in the workshop. So cheers to you also John. :)

Can now just get on and enjoy. 8-)

Edit: Meant to mention, on the way to the Indi a 'Z' came up behind me on the road from North Tawton to the A30, followed me on the A30 and turned off on the Exeter road, about 8 o'clock in the morning, anyone from this forum?
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Frank.A
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Post by Frank.A »

Here is a picture of the fractured spot weld on my 2000 2.8.
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texasjohn
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Post by texasjohn »

BATTERZEE wrote:Just back from the Indi who checked the 'Z' over and under. I asked about the boot floor/diff bracket problem and he had seen a few, mostly 'M's and never an automatic.

Would seem its the 'traffic light Gran Prix' mob that have the most problems. :D

Went to Paddock Motors, Exeter on recommendation of members of this forum, cheers lads - reco spot on :wink:

Bought the car via Pistonheads, previous owner was also a member on here, Texasjohn, he said it was a good'n and he wasn't kidding. Mark (Paddock Motors) remarked that it was the best example they had had in the workshop. So cheers to you also John. :)

Can now just get on and enjoy. 8-)

Edit: Meant to mention, on the way to the Indi a 'Z' came up behind me on the road from North Tawton to the A30, followed me on the A30 and turned off on the Exeter road, about 8 o'clock in the morning, anyone from this forum?
Pleasure Colin, I am glad you are happy with the car. I told you that my MoT tester said it had been well looked after.

I read your posts above and was going to tell you that I had already checked the welds when I bought the car myself, but it seems you have had independent confirmation of the fact that they are ok.

By the way, the later cars do have reinforced welding (and I think this means year 2000 onward but not 100% sure) so yours is ok Colin!
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Jonttt
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Post by Jonttt »

I think despite the "uprated" diff bracket and welding there are examples of S54 ///M's (ie after 2001) still "popping" the welds :head:
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BonBon
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Post by BonBon »

Well - despite owning the car for over 2 years - I finally had a real closeup look and to my surprise found 4 fractured welds over the diff mount. :head:
No visible damage to anything on the underside. :thumb:

I was a bit surprised being a 1.9L Automatic.... (210k km)

Took it to the main BMW dealer. They are being cooperative. Seems like they never dealt with this before. (I'm not sure if there are any Z3Ms here). Surprising, as my indy says that he's had to mend a few diff brackets over the years.

They sent some pics to BMW Germany to:
1. Find out if anything should be done at this stage
2. Find out if they will cover it.

Independent of the feedback from Germany - what is the recommended course of action at this stage? considering that it could have been like this for years.
At the BMW body shop they feared that plug welding would do irreversible damage to the rust protection and I should wait to see if it deteriorated. He is waiting for instruction from Germany.

Here are a couple of pics.....

<a href="http://s262.photobucket.com/albums/ii11 ... dwelds.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii11 ... dwelds.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s262.photobucket.com/albums/ii11 ... seupx3.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii11 ... seupx3.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
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Deano1712
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Post by Deano1712 »

Looks quite advanced to me and unlikely to have been like that for years. If you leave it I think it could get worse, there is not much holding it all together. I think it really needs a proper repair and you need to try to get the dealer to fix it at BMW's cost.
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Frank.A
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Post by Frank.A »

Mine was very minor with only one fractured weld.(see earlier post with picture).

The repair on mine at BMWs expense was plug weld the affected weld and added a weld to the side of it.I will try to take picture of repair.

Have you checked the state of the welds under the tool tray?

I would hope that BMW take immediate action, it will only get worse as it looks quite advanced.

Plug welding is widely used in the body repair industry and is reckoned to be stronger than spot welds.

I hope you get it sorted.
Last edited by Frank.A on Tue 19 Jan, 2010 21:16, edited 1 time in total.
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BonBon
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Post by BonBon »

There is no problem under the tray.
I'll update when I hear - but I'm not optimistic as they wanted FSH documentation at a BMW garage -which I could not produce.
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Jonttt
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Post by Jonttt »

Bonbon, I agree with Deano in that it looks realtively advanced.

The problem is that as it starts to fail the stresses will be amplified on other parts resulting in the eventual seperation of the cross member and boot floor.

These are only the visible spot welds. There are plenty more under the sealent strip on the left hand side. Failure of the spot welds seems to travel from centre to left and if you removed the sealent you may find several more failures under it ?

For info to my knowledge BMW UK have not used "you don't have a full BMW service history" as a reason not to reapir FOC (mine did not have FBMWSH). Plus if they really needed evidence of this they would just get it themsleves from their own systems, just tactics to put you off :head: They have been using the 10 year rule ad hoc and inconsistantly though. (there actually is no 10 year rule in law :roll: ).

The basic premise is that under consumer law goods have to be fit for purpose. This creates grey areas ie whats fit for purpose for one item is not fit for purpose for another. Thats why it makes me laugh when people say its out of 12 month manufacturers warranty, thats just hype as most people won't claim. Thats why car manufacturers "offer" 3 year warranties, its not becuase they want to but because there is no way they could say that a new car should only last for 12 months. This principle would apply to this issue. BMW have known of this problem for a long time and chose not to recall to rectify. My view is a lawyer would have a field day with this and BMW assess this risk and hence the FOC repairs. Of course as cars get older BMW are in a stronger position. This is were the 10 year rule is coming in. My view having spoken to a friendly legal council when I first ahd the issue is that you would still have a strong case unless the car was obviously abused / highly modified beyond original specification. so bottom line, be polite, patient, consistant, reasonable but above all persistant. Your car will not fall apart around you, and you will notice no difference driving it after it is repaired but I would not ignore it :wink:

nb of course the consumer laws in your country may be different but generally the principles will probably be the same.
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c_w
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Post by c_w »

I emailed BMW customer services with the email in your other thread, as I got no reply after a week (just the initial automate response saying an agent would reply shortly), I rang them up and asked for the guy who dealt with your case (Richard Stracey). He was busy but rang back a few hours later; he sounded like he was suffering from some kind of mental block considering that BMW must be spending a hefty amount on these cases, especially the ones this year, and wasn't giving anything away. I was basically running through the whole problem, common failure, recalls, repair part available etc but the official line must be to act dum - he was also bemused why anyone would give his name :dunce: :D

It might be that this is the initial bullshit fobbing off to save money but if pushed by a dealer they may well then agree to fix it but I'm going to save the hassle and fix it myself like Deano has. Plan is to fix the broken welds, then double the pitch of the welds as a start point, double the diff bracket up with a new one and plate the cross member above and below.
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Jonttt
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Post by Jonttt »

c_w, I've had messages back from others who have spoken to the same time following my case and they all got the "this is new to me" attitude, you gotta laugh at the cheek. I can't say anything as he was superb with me, saying he would defo get it sorted for me, even offered to deal with BMW Germany if BMW UK would not play ball. Pity he has such a short memory :roll:

sounds like your about to start another interesting winter diary thread :rtm: :D

You could go one step further than deano and refit with bling chrome bolts :D
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Adam
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Post by Adam »

well it looks like i'm going to be another one taking this up with BMW. Having read the topics regarding this I finally got around to having a look. the first visible spot weld under the cd changer has the tell tail look of the problem.

The previous owner has put some very sticky :head: sound proofing mating which I need to remove all to check all others.

oh merry christmas
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Adam
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Post by Adam »

Dragging up this old thread again.

After finding two failed spot weld on my car I contacted bmw using the e-mail and some other references to cases etc. One case was on a vehicle that is slightly older than my own. after a standard "sorry but we dont want to know e-mail" I replied questioning why other cars had had work done despite age/milage etc that I had detailed in my original e-mail and what could be done regarding getting my car being looked at and any remedial action that could be taken to rectify the problem.

This is the latest reply:

Further to your recent response to my colleagues e-mail of 31st
December, your enquiry has been passed to me for further review.

In response to your further enquiry I can confirm that when assessing
goodwill requests many factors are taken into consideration and as
explained by my colleague, every decision is made on a case by case
basis.

I'm sure you appreciate that for the right reasons we are unable to
comment on other customers cases and can only confirm that your
particular claim has been fully considered in light of all such
circumstances. Your claim falls substantially outside of the maximum
age related goodwill parameters set by BMW for this specific issue and
therefore regrettably we are unable to offer goodwill on this occasion.

I am sorry that we are unable to assist you with your request however I
trust that this information clarifies our final position on this matter.

Yours sincerely

BMW Group UK
Gary Richardson
Customer Service Manager - V1-UK-A-4

==========================

So the question is....What do I do now?

One thing i did notice was that they are admiting a fault "set by BMW for this specific issue "
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BonBon
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Post by BonBon »

My national dealer is still waiting for feedback from Germany both for the goodwill and for the procedure. ( since mid Dec)
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Adam
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Post by Adam »

BMW UK seem to not give a monkeys at all.

My local main dealer that does all work on the car (Sytners Newport) were very helpful and asked me to keep them updated regarding what I hear from BMW UK. I think I will go back to Sytners as they were eager as to its a nice job for them financially. Maybe they might "have a word" could be a way of putting it. I might just miss out BMW UK and go to BMW Germany.

From accounts of other people with various bmw models...BMW UK are as much use as a woodpecker with rubber lips.
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c_w
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Post by c_w »

I think they take more notice when all correspondence comes from a dealer.

It depends how far advanced the problem is, to fix as in some cases it can be fixed fair easily by drilling out the broken welds in the boot and also doubling the pitch. The diff doesn't even need to come off etc as long as the cross memeber underneath has come away at all.
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Post by PERRIN Z3M »

I took my S50 into my Indy today for them to have a look at my diff bracket and boot floor the diff bracket was in good condition.
it is going ion on Thursday for the cross-member to be seam welded to the boot floor and the spot welds to be re-welded.
I have also got hold of a new diff bracket that we are going to reinforce the old one with to make it thicker than the modified one that BMW fitted to the S54's.
They are going to take many photos for me so i will post them on Thursday/Friday.
I think from all the posts I have read and from looking at many failed z3's this is a good way of fixing a fault that in my opinion will happen to a lot of our zeds when they get older and as BMW are becoming less than helpful it will be a cheaper option that paying the £3k plus to have the full job done. (And this is obviously a less intrusive job)


steve
Last edited by PERRIN Z3M on Thu 31 Mar, 2011 17:38, edited 1 time in total.
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Jonttt
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Post by Jonttt »

Guys, there are several people who have contacted me recently regarding this issue and BMW's current stance.

BMW have actually confirmed to one that they have significantly reduced their "goodwill" budget due to the current climate.

They have used various tactics to try and fob people off including:

- you car is more than 10 years old. We have members on here who have had FOC repairs in the past year who's car was more than 10 years old

- we judge goodwill based on the amount of money you spend with BMW (they phrased it differently but that is what they meant) despite one member who had FOC repair last year and has admitted he has never spent £1 at a BMW dealer in his life. I had my car done FOC and personally I have spent very little at BMW. (All my german cars have been company vehicles in company names).

I think the bottom line is that BMW have tightened up their budget spend and are trying more than ever to fob people off. I'm convinced that due to precedent set and undisputable evidence of the inherent problem that any body taking this legal would have a good case.I think BMWwill deal on a case by case basis with people who are persistant and patient ie will not let this drop.

I am happy to pass you details onto those others who have contacted me if you send me a pm. I know one guy who will take this legal if BMW do not repair his car. It will probably take a few people toact together now as its obvious BMW are not going to give in easy, but thats not to say they won't. The potential legal cost of a case they will probably lose is not worth it for them ie it would only take one case to be judged against BMW and a precedent would be set and it would cost BMW a fortune. I'm convinced they would concede before risking this but will take time and an organised logical process. :wink:
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PERRIN Z3M
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Post by PERRIN Z3M »

The trouble is that BMW probably have no legal reason why they should pay for these 10+ year old cars to be repaired due to their age and the fact it was never a recall.
I also think that the repair that they do to some cars is not good enough some have the rear end changed for a whole new floor pan which seems to be better but only time will tell or others that i have seen have been re spot welded and then failed again after not very long.


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Jonttt
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Post by Jonttt »

Steve, I don't know of any that have simply been re spot welded.

I know of one person who originally BMW considered "strengthening" the existing cross member by filling with a special "substance" and then re welding but in the end they did the full replacement cross member FOC.

There is a lot of "hype" and rumour over the spot welds and therefore I only give examples based on actual cases I know about. If there are examples of "simpler" fixes that fail it is worth knowing about.
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Frank.A
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Post by Frank.A »

If you read my previous posts on this thread,the first shows the one spot weld affected on my 2.8 and the second describes the BMW fix which was simply plug weld the separated spot weld and put another plug weld alongside.I had checked under the car at the dealership and the box section and hanger appeared to be fine.

Considering the car has done nearly 70K with no damage apart from the one weld fracturing,I am reasonably confident that it will last long enough for me to enjoy it.

I may even have some extra plug welds put in as a precaution.

My experience with BMW was OK apart from them being adamant that they would not warrant a goodwill repair.
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zedder3
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Post by zedder3 »

Frank: was this an expensive fix, plugging the broken weld and spot welding next to it?

I have a similar situation, still waiting to hear from BMW after recently having it looked over. Just thinking about my options in case I get the same response as others (which I expect).

Thanks
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Post by Frank.A »

I have no idea of the cost as BMW footed the bill.

The car was with the dealer for 2 days and a courtesy car was provided.

They removed boot trim,battery and tool tray,did the repair and repainted.

I asked the service manager if they would put in additional plug welds but he said that they were only sanctioned to repair the fractured weld.He eventually conceded the 1 extra plug weld.

They also gave the car a health check.The only thing they could find wrong was a nail in a front tyre.The tyre in question is an Eagle F1 with 6mm of tread.They wanted me to buy a new tyre,which I refused.My local tyre depot removed the tyre and found that the nail had not penetrated.

The overall cost to me was zero!
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zedder3
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Post by zedder3 »

I'm currently in the middle of to-ing and fro-ing with BMW UK over this. They claim this is not a known fault and that they take into account age/warranty status of each case, to determine whether they provide repairs.

They 'acknowledge' my disappointment at not receiving the repairs FOC and apologised for not concluding the matter how I would have liked. :head:

i am not leaving it there though. Will keep you posted.

Anyone else currently got this going on??
Tori
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Post by Tori »

I read this as a newbie to the scence but would it not be worth contacting watchdog regarding this matter, I know our cars are ageing but welding coming apart is really something that should never happen. They have a website and you can e mail in your complaint for them to consider. Its quite possible they would be interested in this as they have been hot on bmw lately regarding alloy wheels on some other models cracking.
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zedder3
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Post by zedder3 »

Tori - very interesting. I have applied further pressure to BMW for my fix, but you are right, this should not happen and we all should be able to get this resolved.

If we could get this on watchdog BMW would be under pressure!

This is already of interest (from their site):

Sale of goods act:

Satisfactory quality covers minor and cosmetic defects as well as substantial problems. It also means that products must last a reasonable time. But it doesn't give you any rights if a fault was obvious or pointed out to you at point of sale.


I would suggest that the fault we are discussing suggests the Z3 was not of 'satisfactory quality' - or is 10 years a 'reasonable time' for a car before it starts to break??!!
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Jonttt
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Post by Jonttt »

Zedder

The reasonable period of time is one of those areas of law that is a "grey" area.

This would normally be established in case law and a precedent would be set (for or against).

I firmly believe that BMW would not "risk" a precedent against them but the law is very complex in this area and the legal cost would be high to persue.

BMW would have to balance the "risk" of someone taking legal action against them AND winning.

It was a massive risk (hence why the proposed class actions in the USA resulted in FOC repairs) but has lessoned over time a) less Z3's b) the "reasonable" period argument swings in there favour over time.

I did however seek some "informal" legal advice and was led to believe that the fact BMW KNEW of this problem many years ago and SHOULD have repaired (ie strengthened) all Z3's would weaken their case.

It would not however be clear either way so comes down to how BMW assess the risk to them (not of losing an individual case but the precedent then set and further legal action would be a lot simpler).

Obviously the current economic climate has also decreased their appetite for "goodwill" repairs.

I think Violet Ducks discovery of a letter from BMW asking to inspect the "spot welds" of his Z3 a number of years ago really strengthens the case though.

What we really need is a legal council to buy a Z3 with the problem :D
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Titan
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Post by Titan »

Jonttt wrote:I think Violet Ducks discovery of a letter from BMW asking to inspect the "spot welds" of his Z3 a number of years ago really strengthens the case though
Nice phraseology jonttt :wink:

But surely BMW's acceptance of previous weld repairs constitutes an admission of their liability - unless they issued disclaimers to all complainants. (Did they?)
The issue becomes one of time barring - ie after 10 years they will walk away.
However, there must be a burden of proof on BMW to show that any (newly discovered) weld failure has just happened.
Given the overwhelming number of failures already documented and repaired this must a risky strategy for them.
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Council???

Post by Courageous »

What we really need is a legal council to buy a Z3 with the problem
What would the council do with a Zed3 Jon? Not big enuff to be a skip!
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PERRIN Z3M
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Post by PERRIN Z3M »

I didn't get any where with BMW when mine went this year so I decided to get mine done by my Indy and after seeing under the car at what fails I was not too bothered about doing a repair.

The repair I did was a cross between Deano's attempts (add in more welds between the boot floor skin and the cross member)and a Randy Forbes solution on the bracket. (ie weld a new one over the top)

I found that the spot welds had gone in three places but what you can't see from the boot is that the beam the diff bracket is attached too pulls away from the boot floor by quite a lot.

I had it all re welded and the bracket beefed up so I know feel happy to drive the car as hard as a like with no fear of it popping again, if I had had BMW do it I would always be thinking that it will go again at some point.

steve
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Tori
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Post by Tori »

PERRIN Z3M wrote:I didn't get any where with BMW when mine went this year so I decided to get mine done by my Indy and after seeing under the car at what fails I was not too bothered about doing a repair.

The repair I did was a cross between Deano's attempts (add in more welds between the boot floor skin and the cross member)and a Randy Forbes solution on the bracket. (ie weld a new one over the top)

I found that the spot welds had gone in three places but what you can't see from the boot is that the beam the diff bracket is attached too pulls away from the boot floor by quite a lot.

I had it all re welded and the bracket beefed up so I know feel happy to drive the car as hard as a like with no fear of it popping again, if I had had BMW do it I would always be thinking that it will go again at some point.

steve
Did you take any pictures from the underside ?
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PERRIN Z3M
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Post by PERRIN Z3M »

Yeah my garage did but their camera broke and so resorted to a camera phone so the photos are not so good. Also they don't show the fault just the finished job.
I will post some pictures up when I get them off the phone.

steve
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zedder3
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Post by zedder3 »

Well, today I got a final "no chance" from BMW UK. They will not budge on this and say their position is final. They also said that if I take legal action their position will remain the same.

This sounds as if they are very confident that they are not liable for these repairs. Looks like I'm going to have to get this repaired myself :head:
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Adam
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Post by Adam »

Thats exactly what I have got out of them. Actually the e-mail was quite abrupt from them.
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PERRIN Z3M
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Post by PERRIN Z3M »

Ok just a few pictures for you.

This one shows where I had had a new bracket welded OVER THE TOP of the old one, there was nothing wrong with the old one but it made sense to strengthen it while i was there plus the old bracket had additional welds added to it.

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This photo shows the painted finish of the bracket.


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And this is where I had the cross member stitch welded all the way along

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And finally the welds in the boot were welded again,I have a bit of painting required to hide the marks where the heat came though from underneath but the weather has been too cold to do the spraying so far.

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Hope this helps


steve
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