Clonks

Mike Fishwick · Post by **Mike Fishwick** » Fri 27 Nov, 2009 12:57

From what I have read in this forum, I must be about the only Z3 owner who does not suffer from a clonky gearchange, particularly from first to second gear.

I have experienced a clonky change, when travelling in an M3 driven by someone else - it turned out that he had fitted a clutch stop, in the belief that a shorter clutch travel would make for quicker gearchanges . . .

My guess is that very few Z3 owners ever think about bleeding their clutch system, unless they have fitted a braided slave cylinder hose. Even a FBMWSH and a fluid change does not mean that the clutch has been bled, and sometimes not even the brakes - just the reservoir contents removed and refilled.

This means that the clutch is not being fully disengaged, which is a reciped for a clonky, snatchy gearchange.

My 2.8 (with the ZF gearbox used on the 3 litre and M3 etc, which is not renowned for a wonderful gearchange) has covered 105,000 miles, and is quite happy to change gear without any untoward noises, but I bleed the clutch system every couple of years, along with the brakes, use the full travel of the clutch pedal, change the gearbox oil, and perhaps drive with a little sympathy for my car.

Any comments?

Ian_C · Post by **Ian_C** » Fri 27 Nov, 2009 13:07

My 2.8 has a slightly notchy gearchange from 1st to 2nd and exhibits the odd clunk but nothing really consistent or intrusive. The car is 12 years old, has 35k miles but has never had a gearbox fluid change or clutch bleed to my knowledge; I do drive it sympathetically.

I was planning to do a gearbox fluid change next year but hadn't really considered the clutch bleed. Is the clutch bleed a diy job Mike? (similiar to bleeding brakes?)

c_w · Post by **c_w** » Fri 27 Nov, 2009 14:16

Mike Fishwick wrote:From what I have read in this forum, I must be about the only Z3 owner who does not suffer from a clonky gearchange, particularly from first to second gear.

I have experienced a clonky change, when travelling in an M3 driven by someone else - it turned out that he had fitted a clutch stop, in the belief that a shorter clutch travel would make for quicker gearchanges . . .

My guess is that very few Z3 owners ever think about bleeding their clutch system, unless they have fitted a braided slave cylinder hose. Even a FBMWSH and a fluid change does not mean that the clutch has been bled, and sometimes not even the brakes - just the reservoir contents removed and refilled.

This means that the clutch is not being fully disengaged, which is a reciped for a clonky, snatchy gearchange.

My 2.8 (with the ZF gearbox used on the 3 litre and M3 etc, which is not renowned for a wonderful gearchange) has covered 105,000 miles, and is quite happy to change gear without any untoward noises, but I bleed the clutch system every couple of years, along with the brakes, use the full travel of the clutch pedal, change the gearbox oil, and perhaps drive with a little sympathy for my car.

Any comments?

I think it's 90% down to how the car is driven. My car doesn't clonk either. Then my girlfriend drives it and clonk clonk clonk

Mike Fishwick · Post by **Mike Fishwick** » Fri 27 Nov, 2009 14:17

Bleeding the clutch is easy enough - but if it has never been done before, remove the slave cylinder and rotate it until the bleed nipple is uppermost. Then compress the cylinder with its nipple open to expel all the contents, close it, connect a pressure bleeder and bleed normally.

As the cylinder is removed the pushrod will come out with it, and a trace of silicone grease on its tip will be good thing before replacement.

stevethechef · Post by **stevethechef** » Fri 27 Nov, 2009 14:28

I asked my local dealer the Question about changing gearbox and diff oils as I could find no mention of this in the service book.

"They are filled for life with synthetic oil.
Bmw don't recommend changing it."

When I worked in a garage (admittedly 25+ years ago) gearbox oil change was a 12000 mile service item , coming out full of air a and the bits of metal.

I can only asume oil technology has move on somewhat since then.

A fellow z3 owner( an engineer ) and a far wiser man than me , backed up BMW's claim , his 2.8 having covered 135000 miles without problem .

Desiro · Post by **Desiro** » Fri 27 Nov, 2009 15:36

From what I have read in this forum, I must be about the only Z3 owner who does not suffer from a clonky gearchange, particularly from first to second gear.

Is it only the 2.8 and 3.0 that suffer the clunk? I have no clunking at all on the M.
My 2.8 was a clunker but I could mask it somwhat with driving style i.e. changing gear at higher revs than normal, this seemed to work for me.
Had I kept the car I would have changed the oil and bled the clutch this winter.

We have ZF gearboxes at work and have the oil analyzed periodically for contaminents and to predict premature failure of the gearbox.
They currently run approx. 1000,000 miles between overhaul with no oil change in between.
Perhaps someone with more money than sense could have thier oil sampled after they have changed it

estocks · Post by **estocks** » Fri 27 Nov, 2009 15:59

Desiro wrote:They currently run approx. 1000,000 miles between overhaul with no oil change in between.
Perhaps someone with more money than sense could have thier oil sampled after they have changed it

That's a lot

I'm planning on changing the oil in a ZF 5HP19 (5 sp auto) soon. It's rusty-water brown and it should be translucent red. Would you like a sample, or are you being tongue-in-cheek?

MarkOliver · Post by **MarkOliver** » Fri 27 Nov, 2009 16:25

I asked my local dealer the Question about changing gearbox and diff oils as I could find no mention of this in the service book.

"They are filled for life with synthetic oil.
Bmw don't recommend changing it."

Mike F usully has a few words on BMW Oil change logic

Jonttt · Post by **Jonttt** » Fri 27 Nov, 2009 16:47

MarkOliver wrote:
I asked my local dealer the Question about changing gearbox and diff oils as I could find no mention of this in the service book.

"They are filled for life with synthetic oil.
Bmw don't recommend changing it."

Mike F usully has a few words on BMW Oil change logic

Actually I think he only has one word "crap"

I had the diff oil changed in my first ///M which had done 80k. The indy did look at me "funny" but unlike the valve clearances which he refused to do as he was adament it was not needed he did the change. It may have been a piece of mind effect but I did feel it made a difference.

I will do the same again and probably gearbox as well when my new ///M reaches 60k ie a couple of years, as I don't see how it can do any harm ?

ps I agree in my experience with x2 ///M's I've not had a problem with clunky gearchanges. They can be "trickier" when cold and get smoother as the oil warms but it reminds me to keep the revs down anyway until things are nicely warmed up

Mike Fishwick · Post by **Mike Fishwick** » Fri 27 Nov, 2009 18:04

I do know a lot more words than 'Crap!'

It depends on what you mean by 'Life.' In BMW-speak 'Life' means the 3 year new car warranty - what happens after that is of no concern to them, and three years is about the maximum time I would be happy to leave the oil.

I would hazard a guess - and that is all one can do - that 5 years or 50,000 miles is a realistic maximum for gearbox and final drive oil. Put it another way - we are talking about very very expensive things to replace (repair is not financially feasable) in relation to about £30 worth of oil, and perhaps an hour of labour for those who cannot do the job themselves.

It's funny that people who accept the need to change fully synthetic engine oil every year or 20,000 miles (maximum figures - I prefer a year or 10,000 miles) yet they believe this rubbish about 'lifetime' gearbox oil.

Desiro · Post by **Desiro** » Fri 27 Nov, 2009 22:59

They currently run approx. 1000,000 miles between overhaul with no oil change in between.

Just checked when I got to work, I thought it sounded alot

Oil change every 200,000 km's and gearbox overhaul at 1,000,000 Km's

I'm sure you will agree it is still a considerable distance, but the application is rail so the mileages are clocked up quite quickly.

Now can we please get back on topic

Jamezee · Post by **Jamezee** » Fri 27 Nov, 2009 23:03

Mine clunks between 1st and 2nd and getting reverse from cold can feel a bit stiff.

Jamezee · Post by **Jamezee** » Fri 27 Nov, 2009 23:04

re my last post, mine is a 2.2s

paulb1976 · Post by **paulb1976** » Sat 28 Nov, 2009 12:46

yep, mine clunks a bit when cold even after fitting a braided hose and replacing the fluid. - Loads better though.

c_w · Post by **c_w** » Mon 30 Nov, 2009 12:57

Desiro wrote:
From what I have read in this forum, I must be about the only Z3 owner who does not suffer from a clonky gearchange, particularly from first to second gear.
Is it only the 2.8 and 3.0 that suffer the clunk? I have no clunking at all on the M.
My 2.8 was a clunker but I could mask it somwhat with driving style i.e. changing gear at higher revs than normal, this seemed to work for me.
Had I kept the car I would have changed the oil and bled the clutch this winter.

We have ZF gearboxes at work and have the oil analyzed periodically for contaminents and to predict premature failure of the gearbox.
They currently run approx. 1000,000 miles between overhaul with no oil change in between.
Perhaps someone with more money than sense could have thier oil sampled after they have changed it

As Mike said it doesn't really cost *that* much to change the gearbox oil and I found it made a definite improvement on the change. The gearbox is lifetime fill as they probably expect (hope) the lifetime of the car is 100k befor it's thrown away and a new one bough from them again

The driven train is practically identical on the 2.8/3.0 to the 3.2 M (same gearbox at least); the only difference is that some of the 2.8/3.0s have a Torsen diff and these can exhibit a clonk due to the amount of gears in them.

OO 1005 · Post by **OO 1005** » Mon 30 Nov, 2009 13:05

Has anyone changed the oil on an auto 2.8? I've read on various different forums of horror stories from people who both have and haven't changed their oil...

Jamezee · Post by **Jamezee** » Tue 01 Dec, 2009 00:14

Am I the only 2.2 with a clonk?

Gio · Post by **Gio** » Tue 01 Dec, 2009 09:38

Jamezee wrote:Am I the only 2.2 with a clonk?

Nope, I get the same 1st to 2nd, unless I'm very careful with the change.
Also going into reverse is also very stiff.

I'm going to get the gear box and diff oil changed when next serviced.
Indi quoted about £50.00 for gear box and £35.00 for diff (does this sound about right?)

Mike Fishwick · Post by **Mike Fishwick** » Tue 01 Dec, 2009 12:58

£85 seems very steep, for bout £30 of oil and half an hour of labour.

Look at the Opie Oils website and check the prices for Castrol SAF-XJ and Fuchs Syntofluid or Amsoil MTF.

estocks · Post by **estocks** » Tue 01 Dec, 2009 13:18

OO 1005 wrote:Has anyone changed the oil on an auto 2.8? I've read on various different forums of horror stories from people who both have and haven't changed their oil...

Have you checked the colour of your ATF oil?

markrnorton · Post by **markrnorton** » Tue 01 Dec, 2009 13:57

cant say i have had any clonks

but i did hear a clunk the other day

Canman · Post by **Canman** » Wed 02 Dec, 2009 13:18

no clonks here

had one or two clanks in my time

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Re: Clonks

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