Potential buyer but which model?

[Warrior]

I'm looking to buy a Z3 to blow away the cobwebs as I approach my mid life crisis

So far i've not as much as sat in one but have been scanning various for sale sites to get a better idea as to which model, engine size etc., to buy?

Here's what i've sort of worked out for myself but any comments advice would be welcomed.

First, I have little or no experience of driving anything meatier than an XR3i , and run around in a works van or the family wheels, a Renault Scenic The Z3 will fill a void being used for weekends and a short run commute a couple of times a week.

So i'm looking at a 2.8 as a preferred choice having read that anything else is underpowered?

I keep reading 'facelift model' which in some cases is also described as wide bodied. Are all 2.8's wide bodied? What else did the facelift include?

My budget of around £4-6k would appear to buy me a lowish mileage 97,98,99 car but were there any changes that should make me think of the latter model or even something on a later plate, funds permitting?

In some of the photos i've seen, Red Z3's look a bit pink and washed out. Is/was this a problem with this colour?

Any other pointers re seats, accessories, must haves etc., would be appreciated.

Many thanks.........

[Jonttt]

Warrior

You can find out about the Z3's history re changes etc... here

http://users.belgacom.net/bmw_z3/bmw_z3_history.htm

Given your reasons for buying and use I think a 2.8 is a good choice. Facelift really is a mtter of personal choice, lots of owners prefer the pre facelift style. All 2.8 were widebodied but the facelift altered the "shape" of the rear wings on all non ///M models.

This pic shows it well.



You can see that the facelift cars have a "hump" on the rear arch.

The 2.8's are available in facelift but the engine was replaced with the 3 litre shortly after so most 2.8's are pre facelift (ie made before 04/99).

Re the Red, most cameras have auto colour correction and this does affect red in particular and so most pics do not do the colour justice. Note the "red" on the non ///M's is "brighter". Red is one of those colours that can "suffer" from oxidisation (ie its more obvious) which makes it look a little "wishy washy" but this can useually be easily corrected with a good polish.

Good luck with your search, you certainly have a the right budget to pick up a nice clean example

[Warrior]

Many thanks.......a great help...........

Couple more questions...........

Were the rollbars and M type seats an option on all models?

Some of the drivers side seat pads i've seen look a little floppy, is this a problem?

I'm being seduced by lower mileage as the best indicator of wear and tear but is there a limit where things start breaking? 40,000-50k seems achievable within my budget but a lot of good looking motors with 80 plus?

[Jonttt]

The drivers seat seat side "bolster" wear on almost all Z3's.

Unless the leather is actually worn right through though they can be made to look remarkably better with some dye and a little TLC (search for my thread on Leather AND refurb in the knowledgebase.

The seats you are referring to are the "sports" seats. They are very similar to the ///M seats but are a little wider and don't have the "ribbing" and use a different leather.

I'm not sure if they were standard in the 2.8's, others will be able to advise.

Rollbars were standard on all ///M's and I think from a certain date on 2.8's (I've seen early ones without).

To me ideal spec would be:

- auto roof
- rollbars
- sports seats (I think these are always heated? if not then heated)
- air con

nb. as well as the obvious cosmetic changes at facelift others worth noting were:

- dual stage airbag system
- roof lining (better soundproofing)
- locking fuel cap

[seasurfer]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

I bought a 1998 2.8 in february this year and love it. I like the styling of the sports seats in the 2.8's, really compliment the rest of the car.
It took months to find him as i had a wish list and didnt compromise on the top requirements, but had to compromise on the milage, but that depends how fussy you are (i was beginning to waver though after a few months of searching)

I get 37-38 mpg too and not expensive to insure, so well happy with the car.

Keep us posted on what you find.

Gill

[Hang_em_high]

Sounds like your looking for my car from your description facelift 2.8 low miles of 33k, air con,heated sports seats, electric roof,roll bars etc etc

[groove65]

ive got the 1.9 and i wouldnt say its underpowered and its every bit as much fun as any other zed IMO.

ok so it doesnt have the sound of the 2.8 but then again its lighter at the front and easier making progress through the twisties.

would def get a car with rollhoops and make sure you put some focus on the condition of the mirrors as they can be £500 for the pair

other big area to check is the boot welds - the larger engined cars that have seen "spirited" driving could have popped boot welds as the acceleration puts more stress on the diff mount. thankfully thats one issue that seems not as common on 1.9's as it is on 2.8, 3.0 and ///M's

just my personal opinion but i strayed away from power hoods - it takes just a few seconds to put my manual one down and you should always make sure the window is properly folded when putting the roof down so often means you need to be out of the car. power hood is just another potential cash hole on a 10 or 11 year old car. like i say, just my personal opinion

other than rollhoops, i would try to get one with decent condition exhaust and brakes/wheels etc as those costs add up pretty quick.

dont know if VANOS was on the 2.8's - if they are then that needs to be sound too as its a big bill to fix so i hear..

above all, do an HPI check and get a silver one - they are the fastest as many others like Titan will tell you

mine's a 1.9 in Arctic silver with red leather - 1998 model with FSH and 77k on the clock and it cost me £2900 and i think its incredible value for the enjoyment i get from it

[Warrior]

Sounds like your looking for my car from your description facelift 2.8 low miles of 33k, air con,heated sports seats, electric roof,roll bars etc etc

I'll give you £2k for it, can you deliver


Nice looking motor

[Hang_em_high]

Sounds like your looking for my car from your description facelift 2.8 low miles of 33k, air con,heated sports seats, electric roof,roll bars etc etc

I'll give you £2k for it, can you deliver


Nice looking motor

I think your on the wrong forum should get a half decent 14 year old MGF for that money if your lucky

[Warrior]

ive got the 1.9 and i wouldnt say its underpowered and its every bit as much fun as any other zed IMO.

Engine size is a difficult area for me

I've never owned a convertible nor any sort of sports car, unless you class a blue over silver 1.6L furry dice laden Dagenham Taxi XR3i. (It was cheap and in good nick so I had a good excuse).

In contrast I actually enjoy driving my super torquey 2 litre tin can. a ten year old Berlingo Van so i'm easy enough to please.

I'm not a speed freak so should I consider the 1.9 or will I be found wanting? Is the 2.2 good middle ground?

[seasurfer]

Warrior - 2.8 all the way

Im not interested speed either, it just has 'something' about the sound but its all there if you want it

[Gazza]

The 2.2 is good middle ground, depends on your budget which engine you'll get.

[Tori]

Go for a 2.8, you wont regret it

[Hang_em_high]

ive got the 1.9 and i wouldnt say its underpowered and its every bit as much fun as any other zed IMO.

Engine size is a difficult area for me

I've never owned a convertible nor any sort of sports car, unless you class a blue over silver 1.6L furry dice laden Dagenham Taxi XR3i. (It was cheap and in good nick so I had a good excuse).

In contrast I actually enjoy driving my super torquey 2 litre tin can. a ten year old Berlingo Van so i'm easy enough to please.

I'm not a speed freak so should I consider the 1.9 or will I be found wanting? Is the 2.2 good middle ground?

I've had both the 1.9 and now the 2.8. The 1.9 is a great car and is more nimble than the 6 pot cars for sure,but I always felt that as lovely as the 1.9 is it just lacked that lovely low down grunt and was often frustrated at it's inability to pull away from run of the mill people carriers driven by mums loaded with kids when exiting roundabouts.It looked great but didnt go as well as it looked.The 2.8 has all the power you will ever need if your not a speed freak and remember the throttle is not an on off switch

[Jonttt]

Why don't you drive a few and see what suits you, its part of the fun.

The 2.2 is often quoted as being the best "compromise" Z3, sounds great as well but they often command a premium and a nice one would probably stretch your budget.

[groove65]

+1

def best idea to drive a few. i drove the 2.8 and whilst i liked it it did feel heavy both on the cornering and throttle.

dont forget that for me i got the 1.9 as i had to start with zero no claims again as the zed is our toy so all my full NCD has stayed on the 320d estate.

the 2.8 was a lot more than the 1.9 on the multicar policy so another reason for me to get the 1.9

if it wasnt for the insurance, and the fact that i got a great car for a great price from the seller i probably would have looked at the 2.8

for me, it was about affordability of a car to drive for the smiles. if i could afford to burn £6k ish on a decent 2.2 i would have done. but this way, i get a great compromise, can enjoy the top down motoring with the rest of this great clan on zroadster and still have some money left for a nice holiday for the family

maybe in a years time i'll be looking to move up to the 2.2 - cant see myself having a Z4 yet as they are still what i consider silly money for something that wouldnt be driven that much.

only you can work out the cost/enjoyment factor and see what fits you. for me, 3 grand or so to get some great enjoyment at the weekends is a superb deal - i can drive it, enjoy it and dont worry that i wasted hard-earned cash in depreciation. i doubt very much i'll lose much, if anything on the zed in the next 12 months so its pure enjoyment all the way for me

do look at the mirrors and boot welds on whatever you choose though as they look like the worst of the weak spots

as for 2 grand... nice offer but jog on...

hope you find something you like and when you get it post some PICS !!

we likes pics on the forum

[whiteminks]

I have a 2.2 which was my first Z3 and also a Z3M .

I love them both!

My dad who was a car nutter had an XR3i at one point which he loved to bits.
The 2.2 has better performance than the XR3i and looks great too.

The 2.2 is plenty fast enough for most situations ............ I think the official 0-60 is about 7.9 secs.

The Z3M is a gorgeous monster which gives 0-60 in under 5 secs ( most independent reviews rate it faster than the official BMW figure of 5.2 secs.

Expect to pay 6-8k for a decent 2.2.

M wise at the moment I would say 9k minimum for a good S50.

Then the insurance and the maintenence on the M is a lot higher.


Zeds are just gorgeous classy cars and if you get one that is well maintained you can't go far wrong

[groove65]

you have 2 zed's ????!!??!!!

and a 2.2 and Z3M ????!!??!!!

please tell me they arent the fast silver ones as well !!!

groove likes fast silver things

[whiteminks]

Hi Groove,

Toadster my 2.2 is titanium silver and Sharky my S54 Z3M is steel grey

One can never have too many zeds!

[AW8]

2.2 owner here & more than happy.

My other car is a 4.4 V8 & that replaced an RX-8 230. I have driven both towards their limits when & where appropriate & safe. I don't rag my cars, (& always try to keep revs sensible until warm), but I enjoy progressive driving when the mood suits.

I have driven a few 2.8's & wont lie saying that you cant tell the difference over the 2.2 - then again a 3.0 is faster than the 2.8 & so on.......

IMO a little more thought required to briskly pilot a 2.2 in the dry than a 2.8 when aiming for twisty A or B road pace. For me the 2.2 seems well matched to the car - Just feels right. 2.8 may give the you a little more to think about in the wet albeit I have only driven a 2.8 in the dry so treat my comments accordingly.

I sought a 6 cylinder car for the smoothness & only started looking at the 2.2 due to lack of decent 2.8's in budget. I hadn't totally ruled out prefacelift 1.9 & would have bought the right car for money if it was around at the time. 140HP engine on prefacelift is pretty reliable & can entertain. Same engine featured in the E36 318is & 318ti compact. Sought when new & still a following now.

The Z3 2.2, (I have driven two), sits alongside an X5, (I drove a few), so sensible for me to avoid a second car with higher purchase & running costs. The Z3 is officially my wifes car & I suspect my fondness of the Z3M Roadster is greater than hers as she isn't hugely into cars. Despite my secret liking for the Z3M Roadster I have never been priveleged to own or drive one - perhaps I'll take a forecourted example out for a test drive sometime.

Despite my, (untested), admiration of the Z3M Roadster I suspect the 2.2 is a slightly calmer car to live with day in & out than the Z3M....Perhaps others, (hopefully including whiteminks), will comment further on this as they are different cars in may repects.


If not in a rush - Be honest with yourself re Budget to buy, sort any niggles, maintain & insure. Also be honest re your expected driving requirements. Then ideally go & drive a few decent ones with various engine sizes.

Initial admiration may be based on larger engines but drive them a few miles & see what you think you'd want to live with daily.

As with any car a slight engine issue can mispresent a car. On Z3's if tracking & bushes need attention you might not fall in love to start with.

Oh I confess that I used to have an XR2, an XR2i & an 2.9 Sierra 4x4. There were a few good old Faster Fords.

BMW or Ford - IMO the biggest driving factor = YOU !

Good Luck - whatever you decide

[Zed Carer]

Hi Groove,

One can never have too many zeds!

I agree with Whiteminks '

But I'm way, way behind Whiteminks when it comes to cats, llamas, and horses

[groove65]

Hi Groove,

Toadster my 2.2 is titanium silver and Sharky my S54 Z3M is steel grey

One can never have too many zeds!

niiiiiiiiiiiice !!!

only the best bond villains drive silver or grey zed's

[groove65]

If not in a rush - Be honest with yourself re Budget to buy, sort any niggles, maintain & insure. Also be honest re your expected driving requirements. Then ideally go & drive a few decent ones with various engine sizes.

Initial admiration may be based on larger engines but drive them a few miles & see what you think you'd want to live with daily.

As with any car a slight engine issue can mispresent a car. On Z3's if tracking & bushes need attention you might not fall in love to start with.

this is sound advice IMO and very well put.

[smartypants]

ive got the 1.9 and i wouldnt say its underpowered and its every bit as much fun as any other zed IMO.

Engine size is a difficult area for me

I've never owned a convertible nor any sort of sports car, unless you class a blue over silver 1.6L furry dice laden Dagenham Taxi XR3i. (It was cheap and in good nick so I had a good excuse).

In contrast I actually enjoy driving my super torquey 2 litre tin can. a ten year old Berlingo Van so i'm easy enough to please.

I'm not a speed freak so should I consider the 1.9 or will I be found wanting? Is the 2.2 good middle ground?

I am biased as I owned one for 5 years, but the 2.2 is the perfect match for the Z3. Its the best sounding engine and a lot more free revving than the 2.8. However it lacks a bit of the torque of the 2.8, therefore you have to give it more beans to progress. But as I said, the engine noise is so good, you won't mind that

They are rarer though - so 2.8 is probably your best bet!

[Robin]

I loved the smooth effortless torque of my old 2.8.
The exhilaration of effortless off the line good acceleration.
So for me that'd be the smallest engine I'd go for & now 2.8's aren't even expensive to buy.
But I'm sure the smaller engines ones are great fun too.

[Jackster]

Hi I have just been in a similar position to yourself as I only picked my car up yesterday. Have a thorough read of articles on the forum so that you are familiar with the car eg the boot weld saga. Make a wish list of refinements that you would like and order of importance. Decide if you are prepared to travel to look at a car and if so how far. Have a look at a few cars before you buy so that again you get a feel for whats good and whats bad. My own preference was I wanted a 6 cylinder so anything from a 2.0l up to a 3.0l the ///M was out of my budget entirely. I wanted auto roof, heated seats, roll bars, alloy wheels, leather sports seats colour of the car was not important as long as the body was in good condition. FSH was also important to me and relatively few owners. Mileage I was not too concerned about as long as the FSH was there but did come into play as I shortlisted cars. I have been to see about eight cars, some looked great in the advert but then the rear window was cracked £150+, one the passenger seat electrics were not working, had missing locking wheel nuts, kerbed wheels bits of toolkit missing and this was a 2.2 that they were asking best part of seven grand for. Another had dodgy paintwork the bonnet had been resprayed and bits of laquer were missing all over the body. The good thing about this though is that the good cars do stand out when you see one. In the end I had it narrowed down to two a pre facelift 2.8 and a post facelift 3.0. Both very nice cars but the 3.0 was two years younger and had 20k less miles and was £200 cheaper so not much contest in the end lol.

Just my two cents hope it is of some use.

Cheers

Kev

[billz]

We have only had our 3.0 for 6 weeks, We too tried various engine sizes in the end it came out between the 2.8 and the 3.0 ended up going for the 3.0 because it was just awsome compared to the 2.8 and it came with all the extras lec hood, chrome gills, sport stering wheel which i have only seen on one other so far and how BMW managed to get that much more power from the same engine is amazing and all they did was stroke it by 2". If you like power and can not afford a Z3M then the nearest rival to it is the 3.0. You get what you pay for if going for the 3.0 expect to pay a lot more than for a 2.8

[billz]

We have only had our 3.0 for 6 weeks, We too tried various engine sizes in the end it came out between the 2.8 and the 3.0 ended up going for the 3.0 because it was just awsome compared to the 2.8 and it came with all the extras lec hood, chrome gills, sport stering wheel which i have only seen on one other so far and how BMW managed to get that much more power from the same engine is amazing and all they did was stroke it by 2". If you like power and can not afford a Z3M then the nearest rival to it is the 3.0. You get what you pay for if going for the 3.0 expect to pay a lot more than for a 2.8

[MarkR]

I was very happy with my 2.8 pre face lift. never liked the rear wings and rear lights on the later ones. The lines on the body work just right on the 2.8. I had one for four years great fun.

[BonBon]

If you're not a speed freak - remember these cars are all about 10 yrs old. My 1.9 is reaching it's Bar Mitzvah (13) and seems to have had all the possible issues associated with Zeds. Thus, due to the great selection you have in the UK - my advice is to create a list of all the known problems (listed on one of the "buying" threads) and look for one in the best condition. ie low mileage, FSH, low no. of previous owners and garaged.

Don't get me wrong - the car has become my hobby and in a weird way I appreciate the opportunity to fiddle with the car - but if you're not handy or don't have the time - the condition IMO outweighs all the rest.
I got the car in seemingly good condition but nevertheless I've had to do over 60 "jobs" on the car over the last 2.5 years - and not always when I choose. A short list of the non-cosmetic "projects" that comes to mind:
Thermostat,
Heater Valve,
Window bases,
Door handle rubbers,
Roof seals,
Antenna,
Door seals,
cracked storage box,
boot light,
Whalen seat rail gaskets,
Heater fan resistor,
Display bulbs,
Mirror bases,
Lambda sensor
Peeling steering wheel (from the sun!)
Seat belt retractors
Petrol level gauge
Reset airbag
2 water hoses & connector to rear of engine.
Leaking 3rd brake light
Replace all roundels (one was stolen.....)
Cracked washer bottle
......it came with a new roof!

The list goes on. The car is now in great shape but it takes an effort. I guess neglect by the previous 9 owners.....probably yobs who only used it to pull a wife then move on.....
Don't get me wrong it is great fun, keeps me on my toes and gives great satisfaction....... Driving with the roof down is an added bonus.
(I manage to do about 50% of my mileage topless)

[Mike Fishwick]

The 3 litre does indeed have alonger stroke - but it is 89.6 mm, an increase of 5.6 mm over the 84 mm of the 2.8 - not 2" (50 mm) which would have the pistons coming out of the block!

The extra additional capacity and stroke will be responsible for - at a guess - a 5 to 7% increase in power and torque, the bulk being due to a different inlet cam, slightly larger inlet valves, and an exhaust system (also used on the 2.2) which seperates the front and rear groups of cylinders all the way to the rear (and only) silencer. Needless to say, the engine management map is different too.

Yes - I would advise a 3 litre - funds permitting - due to the additional engine output, as in the future petrol will become increasingly diluted with ethanol, so reducing the power output of any engine. The more you have now, the more you will have left after the eco-warriors and politicians have had their way.

The only things I don't like about the 3 litre are its use of a 'Drive by Wire' throttle, and the standard fitting of DSC - they are both unnecessary, and can give problems - particualrly the DSC lateral accelerometer.

[groove65]

BonBon's post is a very good one

for my zed ive done :

stowage box fix
roll hoop conversion
exhaust bracket near gearbox
rear exhaust hanger mod
changed head unit and speaker upgrades
heater illumination lamps
seat base rail mods to cure "rocking" seats
airbag lamp reset
new wheels / tyres (i knew i would do this when i bought the car)
fefitted radiator surround plastics
fixed roof interior where the frame rubs the roof when folded down (easy fix)
rear window seals
cleaned / reproof of hood

still have to investigate the wiper mechanism thats rattling...

so factor in any car is going to have issues due to the age - most of the above is cheap apart from rollhoops and wheels/tyres.

get the best condition you can for the budget but if i were you i would be realistic about maybe including say £700 for incidentals on top of the purchase price - then you should be pretty well covered.

i still think 2.2 is the nicest but pricey
1.9 is easiest to live with in engine terms but doesnt have the 6 pot sound
2.8 is a superb buy if you can get one reasonable condition and price

[Warrior]

Thanks all. Bit busy for a comprehensive reply right now

Nobody has mentioned the 2.0L and guess what has caught my eye?

[seasurfer]

Looks to be a nice 2.8 on pistonheads in black for £3500. think its in the wrong section, under Z3M roadster.

Gill

[GazHyde]

Nobody has mentioned the 2.0L and guess what has caught my eye?

I've got a 2 litre! I find it more than powerful enough for me. the sound from the exhaust really surprised me. I didn't feel that I needed the grunt of the bigger engines.

As a second car the key for me was the price, and I didn't want anything too high mileage or too old. Insurance is cheaper too - same issue of building a new NCD on a second car.

Gaz

[smartypants]

The sound from the 2.0 is almost identical to that of the 2.2, and is also a very good option, but even rarer still!

As you can tell, I like sound more than grunt

Mind you I have both now

[Warrior]

Still looking but the rain put a damper on my intended search this past weekend.

Talking to a mate who knows a little bit about motors and he asked a pointed question as I reeled off the list of options and engine sizes.

'Why did BMW bring out so many different engines with such apparently close proximity to each other? i.e. the 1.8 and 1.9, 2.0 and 2.2, 2.8 and 3.0

[Tori]

As you can tell, I like sound more than grunt

Grunt = Sound