Cruise control retrofit on a Z3 with M54

UK forum for general and technical discussion about the Z3 roadster
User avatar
Robert T
Site Admin
Joined: Mon 12 Jun, 2006 10:35
Posts: 10170

  Z3 roadster 1.9
Location: Cheshire

Re: Cruise control retrofit on a Z3 with M54

Post by Robert T »

Yes, very helpful Mr. Silver. :head:

The question was about the bridging cable, not the switch itself. The control unit expects an input from the clutch switch, so if you don't have one, you fit the cable. Simples.

Cheers R.
Arctic Silver '99 Z3 1.9 & Black '59 Frogeye 1275cc
Image
Mr Silver
Joined: Wed 25 Feb, 2009 09:34
Posts: 360

  Z3 roadster 3.0i

Re: Cruise control retrofit on a Z3 with M54

Post by Mr Silver »

..er yes sir. The 'Bridging cable F clutch switch Part number: 61 12 1 385 400' is a 60mm length of electrical cable (wire) that joins both terminals of the plastic plug that is fitted to the clutch switch when a clutch pedal is present. Cost at last purchase £26...


...and no, you don't need it for a fly by wire auto vehicle! :head:

...and I do believe you'll find that the parts drawing above does not apply to a fly by wire vehicle, and it is not the correct drawing for the M54 Z3 which uses none of the parts shown.


Regards.
Alan W
Joined: Thu 20 Jun, 2013 10:56
Posts: 670

  Z3 roadster 2.8
Location: Bexley, Kent UK

Re: Cruise control retrofit on a Z3 with M54

Post by Alan W »

So do we agree that I don't need a clutch bridging cable as I am confused?

The other thing I was wondering related to the actual cruise control on/off switch. I cant find any secondhand ones on eBay in the UK, but there are a few in the US. Looking at the photos and the writing on the stalk it would appear that they fit on the right hand side of the steering column like the UK one.

So I have two questions I suppose:

1) Can anyone from US with a Zed with cruise control confirm that it is mounted on the right hand side of the column?

2) Can anyone anywhere confirm whether the US switch is identical to the UK one?

Thank you

Alan
1999 facelit Z3 Roadster 2.8 Auto in Cosmos Black aka 'Gloria'
Image
User avatar
Robert T
Site Admin
Joined: Mon 12 Jun, 2006 10:35
Posts: 10170

  Z3 roadster 1.9
Location: Cheshire

Re: Cruise control retrofit on a Z3 with M54

Post by Robert T »

If you have done this on an auto, Mr. Silver, then why didn't you just say so! It took me quite some time to find the details for the bridging cable and track down the installation instructions. :(

To get the diagram I posted earlier, I put in a 01/2000 M52 2.8, which I hoped would be late enough to be a fly-by-wire, however even an 01/2002 M54 3.0i is still showing a bridging cable and an actuator, which implies that the data may well be wrong - usually there is an end date shown for parts that no longer apply. I don't propose to fully understand BMW's ETK, but it is usually a very good source of information.

As to the picture, it is just a generic picture for cruise control - the parts list below it changes depending upon what vehicle you select - not all of the parts shown on the diagram will be needed, however the control unit and stalk definitely will be.

If a manual zed of the same date requires a clutch switch, then it would make sense to me that the auto would need the bridging cable in it's place. However, Mr. Silver is saying that it isn't needed. If he has done this, then fair enough, as I am purely trying to interpret what information I can get my hands on.

Cheers R.
Arctic Silver '99 Z3 1.9 & Black '59 Frogeye 1275cc
Image
Alan W
Joined: Thu 20 Jun, 2013 10:56
Posts: 670

  Z3 roadster 2.8
Location: Bexley, Kent UK

Re: Cruise control retrofit on a Z3 with M54

Post by Alan W »

Thanks Rob, you obviously spent a lot of time and effort trying to research this for me and that is much appreciated, dont get despondent :lol:

And thank you Mr Silver for support and advice too :)
1999 facelit Z3 Roadster 2.8 Auto in Cosmos Black aka 'Gloria'
Image
User avatar
Southernboy
Joined: Thu 07 Oct, 2010 12:39
Posts: 6436

  Z3 roadster 3.0i
Location: Johannesburg

Re: Cruise control retrofit on a Z3 with M54

Post by Southernboy »

US stalk switch is identical, and fits on the right of the column...also, the M cars and non M cars have identical stalk switches...I found an Z M stalk from the US at a very good price...now fitted to my car...only thing I replaced was the "button" on the stalk as the one it arrived with was well used, and most of the white print had been worn off...an easy replacement..just clips of / on. My car is manual, so I can't answer the question of the bridging cable...it was on the list of parts requirements for my car, however I omitted getting one on the basis that my car should have that as part of the OEM harness..if it needed one at all...as it turns out, it doen't require one, so I might suggest it is a requirement on automatics to compensate the lack of a clutch and clutch switch. The purpose of the clutch switch is to turn off the cruise control as does the brake, so that whichever pedal you get to first (clutch or brake) it will disconnect the cruise control. The bridging cable might be necessary to complete a circuit in the OEM wiring harness which would otherwise be controlled by the clutch switch on a manual car.
"Normal is overrated"
Image

Z3 Upgrades and Additions
Mr Silver
Joined: Wed 25 Feb, 2009 09:34
Posts: 360

  Z3 roadster 3.0i

Re: Cruise control retrofit on a Z3 with M54

Post by Mr Silver »

It would seem that there is some confusion reigning supreme here regards the cruise conversion. My research leads me to understand (the getout clause for 'it's not my fault') that the purpose of the 'clutch bridging cable' (a misnomer for a shorting plug) is to prevent engine RPM overrun when operating the clutch while in cruise control mode. If this should occur the resulting reduction in speed would cause the ECU to attempt to maintain the set speed by increasing RPM. Since there would be no drive (due to the clutch being open) the ECU would assume an incline and pile on more power etc etc. Shorting the clutch switch removes the possibility of this occurring since the ECU no longer detects the clutch function.

Which leads to the obvious question: what does the switch do anyway??

A heads up for the cruise select switch (steering column). There are a number of varieties that all look very similar but many lack some function or have differing connectors (even different fittings).
The part required for the Z3 must be - Cruise control switch: 1 31 8 360 926.

You also require the switch Interface cruise control: 65 71 8 380 054 available still from Mr BMW (about £47).

I hope the above helps. It has all been documented elsewhere on the net (including here) so do your own research.


Regards.
User avatar
motco
Joined: Tue 18 Aug, 2009 18:12
Posts: 728

  Z3 roadster 2.2i

Re: Cruise control retrofit on a Z3 with M54

Post by motco »

The interface is £56 inc. VAT from Sytner - a fairly typical price. I got a quote last week.
User avatar
Southernboy
Joined: Thu 07 Oct, 2010 12:39
Posts: 6436

  Z3 roadster 3.0i
Location: Johannesburg

Re: Cruise control retrofit on a Z3 with M54

Post by Southernboy »

The clutch switch....I had to fit the clutch switch to my manual drive setup...and if I touch the clutch whilst in cruise control driving mode, it cuts off the cruise control mode exactly as it does when I apply the brake...so it seems it's optional as a cut out system. Consider actual driving..if you need to do a hasty slow down, one generally simultaneously hits the clutch and brake...whichever foot gets to whichever pedal and depresses it first will have the same effect on the cruise control operation...I must add, I haven't tried to see if depressing the clutch, changing down from say 5th to 4th whilst in cruise control mode and releasing the clutch will result in the cruise control continuing it's operation in the now selected gear....I will try this and post a result if that will help determine the clutch switch function... :wink:
"Normal is overrated"
Image

Z3 Upgrades and Additions
User avatar
Southernboy
Joined: Thu 07 Oct, 2010 12:39
Posts: 6436

  Z3 roadster 3.0i
Location: Johannesburg

Re: Cruise control retrofit on a Z3 with M54

Post by Southernboy »

OK...I went out for a drive to test...I engaged the cruise control in 5th...pushed in the clutch and changed down to 4th...let the clutch out and didn't touch anything else....the car continued to decelerate...ie. the cruise control had been dissabled...and therefor I conclude my original prognosis which is that the clutch switch has the same function as the brake switch...ie. it cancels the cruise control mode...you can deduce from that the purpose and function of the bridging cable...I suggest it's for application on auto cars to complete a circuit which would otherwise function on the clutch of a manual car??
"Normal is overrated"
Image

Z3 Upgrades and Additions
User avatar
PCSAM
Joined: Sat 13 Aug, 2011 01:19
Posts: 1002

  blank
Location: Taynuilt

Re: Cruise control retrofit on a Z3 with M54

Post by PCSAM »

im thinking of getting this mod on my 3.0i .
at the moment I cant get a decent drive in the west cost roads because of all the dam tourists on the road:twisted:
and it will only get worse when the English school holidays start.......... :head:
im exploring some of the single track roads about me at the moment , some stunning areas away from the tourists :shock: and nice stretches of roads to hit the pedal on :shock: :P
Image
User avatar
Southernboy
Joined: Thu 07 Oct, 2010 12:39
Posts: 6436

  Z3 roadster 3.0i
Location: Johannesburg

Re: Cruise control retrofit on a Z3 with M54

Post by Southernboy »

There's nothing better than being free to use a cruise control...the comfort od not having to have one's foot on the gas pedal is huge...foot free and fancy loose...or something like that... :D
"Normal is overrated"
Image

Z3 Upgrades and Additions
User avatar
motco
Joined: Tue 18 Aug, 2009 18:12
Posts: 728

  Z3 roadster 2.2i

Re: Cruise control retrofit on a Z3 with M54

Post by motco »

Z3C wrote:Ok, good luck!

After a bit of dismantling - removing the EWS module and untying some sticky fabric tape and a cable tie from the loom, the plug was revealed on top of the loom. All fitted and working perfectly now, I'm pleased to say. Thanks to all who helped. :cheers

I had previously decided against bothering to fit the mod, but after driving my other car (bought just over a year ago) that has cruise as standard, I was converted. It's a worthwhile job IMHO, and I am glad I did it. 8-)
User avatar
Brian H
Joined: Tue 16 Dec, 2008 19:55
Posts: 2505

  Z3 roadster 3.0i

Re: Cruise control retrofit on a Z3 with M54

Post by Brian H »

Well done Motco :)
PCSAM wrote:im thinking of getting this mod on my 3.0i .
at the moment I cant get a decent drive in the west cost roads because of all the dam tourists on the road:twisted:
and it will only get worse when the English school holidays start.......... :head:
im exploring some of the single track roads about me at the moment , some stunning areas away from the tourists :shock: and nice stretches of roads to hit the pedal on :shock: :P
I know someone that could help you :wink:, cost you a cuppa though.
Alan W
Joined: Thu 20 Jun, 2013 10:56
Posts: 670

  Z3 roadster 2.8
Location: Bexley, Kent UK

Re: Cruise control retrofit on a Z3 with M54

Post by Alan W »

The part required for the Z3 must be - Cruise control switch: 1 31 8 360 926
Just ordered this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-E36-Cruis ... RTM1342315

Can't find any secondhand switch Interface cruise control 65 71 8 380 054 on ebay so may have to buy new unless anyone here has one for sale?

Which leads me to my previous question.... have we agreed yet as to whether or not I need to get a 'clutch bridging cable' for my M52TU 2.8 aut0? :head:
1999 facelit Z3 Roadster 2.8 Auto in Cosmos Black aka 'Gloria'
Image
User avatar
BladeRunner919
Joined: Fri 17 Feb, 2012 20:18
Posts: 2225

  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Cruise control retrofit on a Z3 with M54

Post by BladeRunner919 »

Alan W wrote: Which leads me to my previous question.... have we agreed yet as to whether or not I need to get a 'clutch bridging cable' for my M52TU 2.8 aut0? :head:
There doesn't seem to have been a definitive answer, but as it's just a piece of wire to bridge two contacts, just make one up yourself and try it with and without.
Rafolian
Joined: Wed 27 Feb, 2013 08:41
Posts: 547

  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: Cruise control retrofit on a Z3 with M54

Post by Rafolian »

Does anyone know what's required to fit on a 1998 single vanos 2.8 manual?
Alan W
Joined: Thu 20 Jun, 2013 10:56
Posts: 670

  Z3 roadster 2.8
Location: Bexley, Kent UK

Re: Cruise control retrofit on a Z3 with M54

Post by Alan W »

Earlier in this thread I stated that I wished to retrofit cruise control to my 1999 facelift 2.8 M52TU with auto box and there was a bit of debate as to whether I would need to additionally fit a 'bridging cable clutch switch' to compensate for the fact that there is no clutch in an automatic vehicle.

Well it seems that the member who said I did need one was right

I already had the stalk control which I purchased secondhand from the USA for £25

Have now ordered the following new parts to complete the install:

1 x 61121385400 Bridging Cable F Clutch Switch @ £ 20.35

1 x 65718380054 Interface, Cruise Control @ £ 59.95

So at a cost of just over £100 that has got to be one of the best value for money upgrades you could do for your Z

One of our members who has already done the install has very kindly offered to oversee the fitting which he reckons takes around an hour

Will report back on how it all goes (may be a while as the supplier has to order the bridging cable clutch switch from Germany which takes about 10-15 days)

Alan
1999 facelit Z3 Roadster 2.8 Auto in Cosmos Black aka 'Gloria'
Image
amancuso
Joined: Sat 07 Nov, 2009 14:25
Posts: 236

  Z3 roadster 2.3
Location: Burlington

Re: Cruise control retrofit on a Z3 with M54

Post by amancuso »

motco wrote:
Z3C wrote:Ok, good luck!

After a bit of dismantling - removing the EWS module and untying some sticky fabric tape and a cable tie from the loom, the plug was revealed on top of the loom. All fitted and working perfectly now, I'm pleased to say. Thanks to all who helped. :cheers

I had previously decided against bothering to fit the mod, but after driving my other car (bought just over a year ago) that has cruise as standard, I was converted. It's a worthwhile job IMHO, and I am glad I did it. 8-)
Which plug was there? The one for the cruise control clutch switch?
2000 Z3 2.3 Topaz Blue Metallic over Black and Sandbeige leather.
User avatar
motco
Joined: Tue 18 Aug, 2009 18:12
Posts: 728

  Z3 roadster 2.2i

Re: Cruise control retrofit on a Z3 with M54

Post by motco »

amancuso wrote:
motco wrote:
Z3C wrote:Ok, good luck!

After a bit of dismantling - removing the EWS module and untying some sticky fabric tape and a cable tie from the loom, the plug was revealed on top of the loom. All fitted and working perfectly now, I'm pleased to say. Thanks to all who helped. :cheers

I had previously decided against bothering to fit the mod, but after driving my other car (bought just over a year ago) that has cruise as standard, I was converted. It's a worthwhile job IMHO, and I am glad I did it. 8-)
Which plug was there? The one for the cruise control clutch switch?
If it is an M54 engine as mine is (Very late 2002 2.2 Sport) then it is a fully 'fly-by-wire' throttle. This needs only a steering column switch assembly and an interface module. The switch assembly connects to one side of the interface module, and the other side of the module connects with the, frankly elusive, plug on a flying lead which is concealed under the dash panel above the driver's knees. My car is, of course, right hand drive, but yours will be LHD. I doubt that there's much difference except mirror imaging the instructions where applicable. The plug you are looking for is bound up to the loom and out of sight. Rummage around long enough and you'll find it. On FBW throttle cars all the auxiliary controls; clutch, brake, etc., are taken care of at the factory and do not need to be fitted.
User avatar
andy18n
Joined: Tue 05 Feb, 2013 20:56
Posts: 62

  Z3 roadster 3.0i

Re: Cruise control retrofit on a Z3 with M54

Post by andy18n »

Interesting that this thread has restarted. I've just priced up the bits for my 2002 M54 3.0 and the dealer prices have risen sharply - have tried several dealers. Unless you can source secondhand, its a near £200 job now....quote below:
65718380054 £55.67
61318360926 £128.12
61311390968 £8.11

I might still go ahead...does anyone know any dealers or suppliers that are / have been more competitive for these bits?
Cheers
Andy
2002 Z3 3.0i Sport Black Sapphire Black & Red Leather
User avatar
Brian H
Joined: Tue 16 Dec, 2008 19:55
Posts: 2505

  Z3 roadster 3.0i

Re: Cruise control retrofit on a Z3 with M54

Post by Brian H »

andy18n wrote:Interesting that this thread has restarted. I've just priced up the bits for my 2002 M54 3.0 and the dealer prices have risen sharply - have tried several dealers. Unless you can source secondhand, its a near £200 job now....quote below:
65718380054 £55.67
61318360926 £128.12
61311390968 £8.11

I might still go ahead...does anyone know any dealers or suppliers that are / have been more competitive for these bits?
Cheers
Andy
You could try http://www.bmminiparts.com ,they use OEM parts at a discounted price. You will have to send a price request form using the part number you detailed above (they only use the last 7 digits of the part number), they usually get back to you within 24hrs (weekdays).

HTH
Last edited by Brian H on Thu 08 Jan, 2015 12:12, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
andy18n
Joined: Tue 05 Feb, 2013 20:56
Posts: 62

  Z3 roadster 3.0i

Re: Cruise control retrofit on a Z3 with M54

Post by andy18n »

Cheers - submitted and will report back.....
2002 Z3 3.0i Sport Black Sapphire Black & Red Leather
User avatar
motco
Joined: Tue 18 Aug, 2009 18:12
Posts: 728

  Z3 roadster 2.2i

Re: Cruise control retrofit on a Z3 with M54

Post by motco »

Soper's in Lincoln do good prices (mention the forum) with P&P FOC
amancuso
Joined: Sat 07 Nov, 2009 14:25
Posts: 236

  Z3 roadster 2.3
Location: Burlington

Re: Cruise control retrofit on a Z3 with M54

Post by amancuso »

motco wrote:
If it is an M54 engine as mine is (Very late 2002 2.2 Sport) then it is a fully 'fly-by-wire' throttle. This needs only a steering column switch assembly and an interface module. The switch assembly connects to one side of the interface module, and the other side of the module connects with the, frankly elusive, plug on a flying lead which is concealed under the dash panel above the driver's knees. My car is, of course, right hand drive, but yours will be LHD. I doubt that there's much difference except mirror imaging the instructions where applicable. The plug you are looking for is bound up to the loom and out of sight. Rummage around long enough and you'll find it. On FBW throttle cars all the auxiliary controls; clutch, brake, etc., are taken care of at the factory and do not need to be fitted.

Thanks, I have already done the cruise installation. My question should have been a bit more refined. I'm currently swapping a manual gearbox into my '00 Z3 (M52TUb25) and I've read about the bridging cable to make the cruise work in autobox cars. I didn't have to install it way back when I put the cruise in, so I'm assuming all the wiring including that cable was put in the car at the factory. I was hoping that that bridging cable could just be removed and the remaining wiring could be plugged into the cruise control clutch switch next to the brake light switch.

Al.
2000 Z3 2.3 Topaz Blue Metallic over Black and Sandbeige leather.
User avatar
andy18n
Joined: Tue 05 Feb, 2013 20:56
Posts: 62

  Z3 roadster 3.0i

Re: Cruise control retrofit on a Z3 with M54

Post by andy18n »

Update - bmminiparts came back quickly - about £180 which is a tenner or so cheaper than any dealer quote so have placed the order. Dealers have said the switch price has risen significantly in last 6 months or so - maybe a sign that stocks are running low.
Its still a fair priced upgrade. Just hope I can find that plug amongst the loom now!
Cheers
Andy
2002 Z3 3.0i Sport Black Sapphire Black & Red Leather
User avatar
motco
Joined: Tue 18 Aug, 2009 18:12
Posts: 728

  Z3 roadster 2.2i

Re: Cruise control retrofit on a Z3 with M54

Post by motco »

Al, I see now what you are after! Sorry, I have no idea about that part. :?
amancuso
Joined: Sat 07 Nov, 2009 14:25
Posts: 236

  Z3 roadster 2.3
Location: Burlington

Re: Cruise control retrofit on a Z3 with M54

Post by amancuso »

motco wrote:Al, I see now what you are after! Sorry, I have no idea about that part. :?
No worries. I'll post info on my findings. :)

*update: There is no bridging cable on my 4/00 build Z3 2.3 Just so you all know.
2000 Z3 2.3 Topaz Blue Metallic over Black and Sandbeige leather.
Wolverine_1999
Joined: Mon 15 Feb, 2010 20:07
Posts: 454

  Z3 roadster 2.0
Location: Munich

Re: Cruise control retrofit on a Z3 with M54

Post by Wolverine_1999 »

I managed to get the interface for €60 (45 pounds) directly from BMW. The stalk I found second hand for €20 (15 pounds). The stalk directly from BMW is €114! (87 pounds)

If anyone would like me to get a part for them I can always enquire.

Fingers crossed it all works now!
Wolverine_1999
Joined: Mon 15 Feb, 2010 20:07
Posts: 454

  Z3 roadster 2.0
Location: Munich

Re: Cruise control retrofit on a Z3 with M54

Post by Wolverine_1999 »

Tada! All working. Not bad for 70 pounds!

FYI: My 3 pin wire was near where the cables are for the fog light switches.
User avatar
RockyDave
Joined: Sun 22 Sep, 2013 07:18
Posts: 47

  Z3 roadster 2.2i

Re: Cruise control retrofit on a Z3 with M54

Post by RockyDave »

Hi all,
I've just finished fitting cruise control on my car - no problems at all with the retro fit (apart from getting those stubborn little covers off the dashboard screws :oops: ) and all works perfectly, looking forward to trying it out on the trip to Duxford next weekend :)

But, does anyone know if the "cruise indicator light" in the dash should illuminate? I recall when I had the instrument panel out to sort blown bulbs there was a space for the "cruise control light" - on the LHS adjacent to the fog warning lights. This afternoon I have popped a bulb in there but it does not illuminate. Not a big deal, but just wondering if it should.

Dave.
Image Image
2002 Z3 2.2i Sport Roadster Titanium Silver
2008 E61 520d Deep Sea Blue
1955 R25/3 motorcycle
bertiejaffa
Joined: Fri 26 Jul, 2013 09:28
Posts: 1733

  M roadster S50
Location: Manchester

Re: Cruise control retrofit on a Z3 with M54

Post by bertiejaffa »

RockyDave wrote:Hi all,
I've just finished fitting cruise control on my car - no problems at all with the retro fit (apart from getting those stubborn little covers off the dashboard screws :oops: ) and all works perfectly, looking forward to trying it out on the trip to Duxford next weekend :)

But, does anyone know if the "cruise indicator light" in the dash should illuminate? I recall when I had the instrument panel out to sort blown bulbs there was a space for the "cruise control light" - on the LHS adjacent to the fog warning lights. This afternoon I have popped a bulb in there but it does not illuminate. Not a big deal, but just wondering if it should.

Dave.
I fitted cruise in my 2.0l and my S50... theres no light in those cars and while I don't know for sure I would imagine yours is the same... takes a while to get used to but I actually find it the most logical cruise Ive had - now that Im used to it :D
Here come the girls.....
Image
My //M Refurb
My First Zed Journal
User avatar
Southernboy
Joined: Thu 07 Oct, 2010 12:39
Posts: 6436

  Z3 roadster 3.0i
Location: Johannesburg

Re: Cruise control retrofit on a Z3 with M54

Post by Southernboy »

I imagine it would be a simple matter to connect the cruise control so the light illuminates.... but what would be the point.... if your feet aren't on the pedals and the car is maintaining speed it would seem logical that the CC is engaged.. :shrug
"Normal is overrated"
Image

Z3 Upgrades and Additions
Mor61e
Joined: Mon 21 Jan, 2013 20:11
Posts: 96

  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: Cruise control retrofit on a Z3 with M54

Post by Mor61e »

Interesting read. But where do you lot that are in England find the space to use it?! :lol:
Image
User avatar
Southernboy
Joined: Thu 07 Oct, 2010 12:39
Posts: 6436

  Z3 roadster 3.0i
Location: Johannesburg

Re: Cruise control retrofit on a Z3 with M54

Post by Southernboy »

.......They use it on their way to France and Spain... :lol:
"Normal is overrated"
Image

Z3 Upgrades and Additions
bertiejaffa
Joined: Fri 26 Jul, 2013 09:28
Posts: 1733

  M roadster S50
Location: Manchester

Re: Cruise control retrofit on a Z3 with M54

Post by bertiejaffa »

Mor61e wrote:Interesting read. But where do you lot that are in England find the space to use it?! :lol:
Roadworks with Average speed cameras :head:
Here come the girls.....
Image
My //M Refurb
My First Zed Journal
User avatar
motco
Joined: Tue 18 Aug, 2009 18:12
Posts: 728

  Z3 roadster 2.2i

Re: Cruise control retrofit on a Z3 with M54

Post by motco »

I use mine in 30 and 40 limits - particularly the 30 limits. It can be useful on motorways but not in the south-east...
Post Reply