Air-con envy

muckyman · Post by **muckyman** » Fri 22 Apr, 2011 08:19

Grrrrrrrr, lovely weather and bloody air-con not working.
The button lights up and that's it, not even a noise from the engine bay or a slight increase in revs at idle.
Slightly annoying

freds dad · Post by **freds dad** » Fri 22 Apr, 2011 08:32

Have you tried putting the roof down?

muckyman · Post by **muckyman** » Fri 22 Apr, 2011 09:18

freds dad wrote:Have you tried putting the roof down?

That's the plan, and drive faster too.
Even so, it would be nice to have cold air blowing around my feet

Z3cade · Post by **Z3cade** » Fri 22 Apr, 2011 09:25

the only time i use my aircon is to de.mist the windscreen in winter!!

Devon Z · Post by **Devon Z** » Fri 22 Apr, 2011 10:44

Use mine all the time, warm sun on my back, cool breeze in my face

And I'm stuck at work today

TitanTim · Post by **TitanTim** » Fri 22 Apr, 2011 11:02

Why on earth would you need air con in Roadster

I can see some benefits for demisting in winter but thats about it. Glad mine doesn't have it, just another thing to wrong as the Zed gets older

Same with electric hoods, manual is much better

Tim.

P.S. you probably need a re-gas

BonBon · Post by **BonBon** » Fri 22 Apr, 2011 12:08

In most countries AC is critical - as in the summer you cannot drive from 8AM to 6PM with the roof down.

OXO · Post by **OXO** » Fri 22 Apr, 2011 12:09

BonBon wrote:In most countries AC is critical - as in the summer you cannot drive from 8AM to 6PM with the roof down.

B*ll*cks.

BonBon · Post by **BonBon** » Fri 22 Apr, 2011 12:18

.....unless one considers Northern Europe and the UK as "most countries"

Lazzzydog · Post by **Lazzzydog** » Fri 22 Apr, 2011 12:34

B*ll*cks. Seconded.

Dave L2 · Post by **Dave L2** » Fri 22 Apr, 2011 12:37

BonBon wrote:In most countries AC is critical - as in the summer you cannot drive from 8AM to 6PM with the roof down.

What he's saying is correct, considering the cancer risks, but the Most Countries bit is a bit of a stretch.

BonBon · Post by **BonBon** » Fri 22 Apr, 2011 12:45

Southern Europe, Middle East, Africa, Far East, Southern North America, Central America, South America, Pacific. Most countries by a mile. Cancer is the longshot - I'm talking about melting and having to peel your soaking shirt off the chair.
Try walking into a meeting after that - you become the joke of the day.

TitanTim · Post by **TitanTim** » Fri 22 Apr, 2011 14:36

To be fair Bon Bon is correct, I think however for the UK and some other European Countries air con is probably more of a luxury as when does it ever really get hot that its unbearable? uncomfortable maybe

But then again I probably wouldnt go topless in really hot countries as would rather be in a tin top with air con up max

Tim.

BonBon · Post by **BonBon** » Fri 22 Apr, 2011 14:47

.....and forgo the bliss of going to work and coming home in the evening with the roof down?
I don't drink to oblivion, chase others' wives or gamble - so what's left?

The latest fav CD is Bryan Adams GH

TitanTim · Post by **TitanTim** » Fri 22 Apr, 2011 14:55

BonBon wrote:.....and forgo the bliss of going to work and coming home in the evening with the roof down?
I don't drink to oblivion, chase others' wives or gamble - so what's left?
The latest fav CD is Bryan Adams GH

Latest Z4 would sort that out

Tim.

Mike Fishwick · Post by **Mike Fishwick** » Fri 22 Apr, 2011 15:46

Those who decry the use of air con in an open car are usually reflecting two things - they do not have air con, and/or they do not understand how useful it is if used properly!

It was really useful in the UK for instant demisting and continued demisting without turning the inside into a little mobile sauna, while in most European and Scandinavian countries the summer heat makes it a real necessity - with the roof down!

Here in the Dordogne I seldom put the roof up from Easter to Autumn, and even when parked (no petty crime in the country) I just put a sheet over the seats to keep them cool.

I have seen Z3 people reduced to sunstroked wrecks without air con, yet I am quite happy to drive withthe top down all day in temperatures of up to 40 C. As stated above, being bombarded by cold air is a godsend - and if you put a carrier bag in the passenger footwell, it keeps the milk and yoghurt etc cool until the reach the campsite!

Air con is the most important accessory you can have, and beats all the angel eyes and bigger wheels.

TitanTim · Post by **TitanTim** » Fri 22 Apr, 2011 16:03

Mike Fishwick wrote:Those who decry the use of air con in an open car are usually reflecting two things - they do not have air con, and/or they do not understand how useful it is if used properly!

It was really useful in the UK for instant demisting and continued demisting without turning the inside into a little mobile sauna, while in most European and Scandinavian countries the summer heat makes it a real necessity - with the roof down!

Here in the Dordogne I seldom put the roof up from Easter to Autumn, and even when parked (no petty crime in the country) I just put a sheet over the seats to keep them cool.

I have seen Z3 people reduced to sunstroked wrecks without air con, yet I am quite happy to drive withthe top down all day in temperatures of up to 40 C. As stated above, being bombarded by cold air is a godsend - and if you put a carrier bag in the passenger footwell, it keeps the milk and yoghurt etc cool until the reach the campsite!

Air con is the most important accessory you can have, and beats all the angel eyes and bigger wheels.

Hmmmm disagree with you there Mike, I'm using the Zed each day without air con whilst the 1 Series with Climate Control is sitting in the garage over summer

I do question if you leave roof down all the time what real worth air con is? probably a complete waste of fuel if you ask me. I would have thought heated seats would be more of a bonus. As said if I lived in a very hot country I would appreciate air con but with the hood up but in the UK I dont feel its an absolute must have

Tim.

Diamondj · Post by **Diamondj** » Fri 22 Apr, 2011 16:09

I'll be honest, i've got AC but have never even swithed it on - never felt the need.

Jonttt · Post by **Jonttt** » Fri 22 Apr, 2011 16:49

I've just finishd a pretty long B road cruise and I had aircon on most of the time directed at my feet and at times head up whilst sat in traffic, it really does make a difference, why would you not want a nice cold stream of air on a glorious day roof down

TaffZee · Post by **TaffZee** » Fri 22 Apr, 2011 16:57

The 10 days spent in Spain last year wish I had air con then!

Cant drive around in the blazing sun all day with the roof down unless you want to look like a beetroot even with factor 40 on.

TitanTim · Post by **TitanTim** » Fri 22 Apr, 2011 17:03

Air con might cool your lower region but it won't stop sunburn, except keep the hood up or wear a burkha

Tim.

gookah · Post by **gookah** » Fri 22 Apr, 2011 18:48

Roof down, aircon on,....... it's the way forward.
I would definately look for a car with it as a plus point.

and it stops the salesmen saying "the ones with aircon fetch more", when you come to sell it.

Lazzzydog · Post by **Lazzzydog** » Fri 22 Apr, 2011 19:08

I wouldn't buy a tin top without air-con, but it's only for woofters in a soft top.

TitanTim · Post by **TitanTim** » Fri 22 Apr, 2011 19:15

Lazzzydog wrote:I wouldn't buy a tin top without air-con, but it's only for woofters in a soft top.

Tim.

gookah · Post by **gookah** » Fri 22 Apr, 2011 19:19

Lazzzydog wrote:I wouldn't buy a tin top without air-con, but it's only for woofters in a soft top.

Ooooh...... you bitch!

shantybeater · Post by **shantybeater** » Fri 22 Apr, 2011 20:19

The aircon blows ice cold in mine...never use it, tested it once on the test drive and once a few weeks ago to make sure its still working

I agree with Tim imo a waste of fuel in the UK and something else to just go wrong, I can only think of one day when I wanted it in my whole ownership of the S50, it was roasting and I was stuck in traffic on the m27...unfortunately it didnt work haha!!

TitanTim · Post by **TitanTim** » Fri 22 Apr, 2011 20:55

Daft as it sounds I would still rather have air con in a tin top car, just seems to make more sense, even then on a hot day your back still gets wet

Tim.

shantybeater · Post by **shantybeater** » Fri 22 Apr, 2011 22:06

in a hardtop i get it, you can close the windows and get the car to a nice icy temp, but in a soft top you just drop the hood, its even more silly to have the top down and use air con...that really seems like a waste of fuel (and horsepower

) to me

Jonttt · Post by **Jonttt** » Sat 23 Apr, 2011 00:36

There is an off button when you need it

OXO · Post by **OXO** » Sat 23 Apr, 2011 06:43

BonBon wrote:.....unless one considers Northern Europe and the UK as "most countries"

We all saw the Top Gear Guys in the middle east with the tops down all the time..

Mike Fishwick · Post by **Mike Fishwick** » Sat 23 Apr, 2011 07:55

Sunburn is not really a problem if - like me - you are able to keep the top down from the beginning of Spring to the end of Autumn - you just become used tothe sun, with a gradually deeper tan on the exposed parts.

I wear a long-sleeved shirt, with open sleeves and the collar turned up, which works fine, and for long runs I prefer to drive in gloves. As I regularly sunbathe 'Au naturelle' my face is not much darker than the rest of me!

The trouble many Brits have is that they suddenly expose themselves to the sun, and of course suffer the consequences - it's like those people who work inside all year, and then lie on a tropical beach for two weeks.

This is where the British fear of skin cancer comes from - the French hardly use Ambre Solaire except on the beach, and cannot understand why the Brits cover themselves in sun-block - you cannot even buy it in France, except in areas catering for tourists.

I'm amazed by those who regard air con as simply a means to produce cold air, when - it used in conjunction withthe heater - it will produce warm dry air, which is far more comfortable in a small closed car, and also virtually eliminates misting.

This dual cooling/heating is widely used by HVAC systems in buildings and ships, the difference in comfort levels over simple heating being really marked, particularly in humid conditions, when simple heating will produce lots of water vapour inside.

Perhaps they should cast aside their preconceived notions and try something new.

gookah · Post by **gookah** » Sat 23 Apr, 2011 08:43

shantybeater wrote:in a hardtop i get it, you can close the windows and get the car to a nice icy temp, but in a soft top you just drop the hood, its even more silly to have the top down and use air con...that really seems like a waste of fuel (and horsepower ) to me

Disagree,
You have the top down when its hot, (because thats what you bought a convertible for), and have extra cool air as well blowing on you, stopping you getting sticky.
Thats like saying there is no point having the heater on if the roof is down in winter..it still helps, whether its cooling or heating.

Ask yourself why every new convertible in Florida, California, etc has aircon?

damn site more useful than a rheostat for the instrument lights

A really hot day and its the second button I press, after the roof.

Geoff H · Post by **Geoff H** » Sat 23 Apr, 2011 10:04

If you use your car for ALL 12 months of the year air con is a essential in a soft top, more so in the wet winter months. To say it isn't necessary in a soft top is talking out of their arse

TitanTim · Post by **TitanTim** » Sat 23 Apr, 2011 10:42

Geoff H wrote:If you use your car for ALL 12 months of the year air con is a essential in a soft top, more so in the wet winter months. To say it isn't necessary in a soft top is talking out of their arse

Hmmmmm and I bet your glad you don't drive a proper British Sports car then

Tim.

DC · Post by DC » Sat 23 Apr, 2011 10:46

Sadly I can remember when a heater was an extra cost option and lots of cars didn't have one.
Similar discussions took place then, "why not just wrap up well and wear gloves, we've never had them before so why do we need them, it's more to go wrong" etc., in the end cars now have heaters and I don't think anyone questions their use.
I've grown to love AC with it's directable cool air vents just as I love being able to drive top down on a cold day with the heater on and my hands warm.
Each to their own.

Dave.

GazHyde · Post by **GazHyde** » Sat 23 Apr, 2011 11:13

DC wrote:Each to their own.

...and so speaks a voice of sense and reason!

Mine doesn't have aircon. Got through last summer without it, albeit a little sweaty. If it did have aircon, it would have been switched on when appropriate.

It does have a heater and damn well needed it roof down throughout the winter in minus temperatures. Would have loved aircon for demisting the screen, but coped without.

Seems daft not to use something if it's fitted! Just as long as you aren't driving with your roof up and the aircon on - that's just plain wrong*

Gary

* Disclaimer: In the UK only. Other countries are available, and your home may be at risk if you do not keep up repayments. My humble opinion, may not be used in evidence against me - trolls may not apply.

Geoff H · Post by **Geoff H** » Sat 23 Apr, 2011 12:12

TitanTim wrote:
Geoff H wrote:If you use your car for ALL 12 months of the year air con is a essential in a soft top, more so in the wet winter months. To say it isn't necessary in a soft top is talking out of their arse
Hmmmmm and I bet your glad you don't drive a proper British Sports car then

Tim.

I have owned and driven many "proper British soft-top sports cars" over the years, so I do know what it is like. What is your experience comparing them to driving a car with more up-to-date features.

TitanTim · Post by **TitanTim** » Sat 23 Apr, 2011 14:56

Geoff H wrote:
TitanTim wrote:
Geoff H wrote:If you use your car for ALL 12 months of the year air con is a essential in a soft top, more so in the wet winter months. To say it isn't necessary in a soft top is talking out of their arse
Hmmmmm and I bet your glad you don't drive a proper British Sports car then

Tim.
I have owned and driven many "proper British soft-top sports cars" over the years, so I do know what it is like. What is your experience comparing them to driving a car with more up-to-date features.

One word, lousy, so glad I have a modern car

Tim.

Jamezee · Post by **Jamezee** » Sat 23 Apr, 2011 23:55

Blimey muckyman,

you have got members going with this thread

I have the 'evil aircon' in mine and find it really useful.

In winter it demist's the screen in seconds.

In summer it keep's you cool when you are on journeys when dropping the top is not needed like driving a short journey to work. You can arrive dry and not piss wet through from sweating against a leather seat.

I have never used mine with the roof down though, that seems a bit odd to me (not being loaded)

John1950 · Post by **John1950** » Sun 24 Apr, 2011 10:41

OXO wrote:
BonBon wrote:In most countries AC is critical - as in the summer you cannot drive from 8AM to 6PM with the roof down.
B*ll*cks.

You obviously haven't driven in hot climes. Believe you me, down in southern Europe the sun is vicious. Unwary drivers think they're cool enough because of the wind whistling around them - but come the evening, come the badly burnt ears, noses, tops of heads, arms and thighs.
And another thing, in those conditions you sweat LOTS - you'll need a towel over the leatherwear. If you're lucky enough to have air-con and can get it to play on your feet and legs - the comfort is amazing because the cool air rises up over your complete body. If you're going to be doing hours of driving it makes all the difference between arriving worn out or ready for your hols.

TitanTim · Post by **TitanTim** » Sun 24 Apr, 2011 11:12

John1950 wrote:
OXO wrote:
BonBon wrote:In most countries AC is critical - as in the summer you cannot drive from 8AM to 6PM with the roof down.
B*ll*cks.
You obviously haven't driven in hot climes. Believe you me, down in southern Europe the sun is vicious. Unwary drivers think they're cool enough because of the wind whistling around them - but come the evening, come the badly burnt ears, noses, tops of heads, arms and thighs.
And another thing, in those conditions you sweat LOTS - you'll need a towel over the leatherwear. If you're lucky enough to have air-con and can get it to play on your feet and legs - the comfort is amazing because the cool air rises up over your complete body. If you're going to be doing hours of driving it makes all the difference between arriving worn out or ready for your hols.

But then again, driving in countries where the sun is vicious you would be a loon driving around with the hood down anyways

I like to have the hood down but not at the expense having my face burnt off

Tim.

John1950 · Post by **John1950** » Sun 24 Apr, 2011 13:45

TitanTim wrote:
John1950 wrote:
OXO wrote: B*ll*cks.
You obviously haven't driven in hot climes. Believe you me, down in southern Europe the sun is vicious. Unwary drivers think they're cool enough because of the wind whistling around them - but come the evening, come the badly burnt ears, noses, tops of heads, arms and thighs.
And another thing, in those conditions you sweat LOTS - you'll need a towel over the leatherwear. If you're lucky enough to have air-con and can get it to play on your feet and legs - the comfort is amazing because the cool air rises up over your complete body. If you're going to be doing hours of driving it makes all the difference between arriving worn out or ready for your hols.
But then again, driving in countries where the sun is vicious you would be a loon driving around with the hood down anyways I like to have the hood down but not at the expense having my face burnt off

Tim.

Tim, quite sensible advice, but the reality is, we all want that wind in our hair.
Many years ago I lived in Tenerife for ten years. Once you are properly bronzed then you'll notice a couple of things:
1. The sun doesn't burn exposed parts while driving - but can be very damaging to skin in the long term
2. You don't get anywhere near as hot by being in the sun so the driving becomes much more pleasant.
The aircon on the feet and body though is absolutely luxurious.

Hard Top · Post by **Hard Top** » Sun 24 Apr, 2011 14:44

Just my two Euro's worth.

A mate of mine destroyed his AC driving around in Spain with his windows down and sunroof open.
If you

you should try and cool the car down first, then close all windows etc, use the AC, and as soon as you can, set it to re-circulation.

HT

Mike Fishwick · Post by **Mike Fishwick** » Sun 24 Apr, 2011 15:07

I would think that your friend's problem was not directly related to use of the air con in an opened car, but to other factors such as a lack of oil in the system, or excessive moisture content.

So many 'specialists' diagnose a lack of gas, but do not find out where it had gone - often through the compressor shaft seal, along with most of the lubricating oil. Their myopic answer is simply to add more gas until the delivery pressure looks OK. The result will be a siezed compressor.

Where the refigerant gas has leaked from, air will enter, bringing with it a fair amount of moisture, which can freeze in the expansion valve and stop any cooling. This will increase the compressor delivery pressure until it cuts out or bypasses - again with an end to any cooling effect.

In either case, the job must be done correctly, and that means evacuating the system, checking that it can hold a vacuum for a while (to check for leakages) and then adding the correct amount of oil and gas. Other considerations are replacement of the filter/drier unit and checking the pipework for leaks when the system is back in use.

Dumping gas into the system - as many people do - is not the answer to a poorly-performing air con system.

Air con compressors do not die through being in operation, but there are plenty of other reasons. If your friend's experience was due to usage, all the motorists in California etc would be queuing for new compressors!

Incidentally - most air con systems will only operate in recirculation mode for about twenty minutes, after which they revert to fresh air operation, and the use of recirculation when demisting will have the opposite effect.

Hard Top · Post by **Hard Top** » Sun 24 Apr, 2011 19:09

Interesting read Mike, so it is not possible to 'over load' the AC/Climate Control system.
When my friend got home and explained to the Mercedes dealer, where, what and how, this is what he was told.

I am going to have to think carefully about telling him this, as the car was new and still under warranty at the time, and he has a very short fuse.
(would not be good news for the local garage)

HT

PD · Post by PD » Sun 24 Apr, 2011 19:23

An interesting discussion. I found the different points of view and suggestions for best use of air con usefull. As someone who lives in Scotland, I would like the challenge of being too hot in my Z. For me, I believe that nearly all of the arguments are valid, it is more a question of personal preference.

mooney · Post by **mooney** » Mon 25 Apr, 2011 02:26

Having a zed in the uk I didn't imagine Ac would be required much at all. We are now half way through a driving tour of southern France and very glad we had the air con re gassed the day before we left.
Have managed to have top down most of the way, but there have been a few rain storms where the roof has had to be up and in 25 degrees the air con was a must, especially when sitting in traffic jams and no way to get air moving round the cab otherwise.

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