New MoT Standards
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- Joined: Fri 19 Jun, 2009 10:27
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New MoT Standards
Well - I have been saying that this would happen, and now it has!
The MoT standards have been revised to include toys and games such as ABS, DSC, electronic power steering, and automatic parking brakes . . . and after-market HID headlamps!
See the following for details:
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/ca ... -2012.html
This also means, of course, that if you replace your HIDs after the MoT and are stopped by the police, your car will be deemed unroadworthy and may be taken off the road immediately, particularly at night.
Likewise, people who remove their catalytic converters, or fit non-airbag steering wheels will fail, as will a car with a defective ABS sensor.
The MoT standards have been revised to include toys and games such as ABS, DSC, electronic power steering, and automatic parking brakes . . . and after-market HID headlamps!
See the following for details:
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/ca ... -2012.html
This also means, of course, that if you replace your HIDs after the MoT and are stopped by the police, your car will be deemed unroadworthy and may be taken off the road immediately, particularly at night.
Likewise, people who remove their catalytic converters, or fit non-airbag steering wheels will fail, as will a car with a defective ABS sensor.
I spoke to my MOT tester and he says it's not as bad as I first thought. Personally, I'd like to see HIDs banned (but I'm not the law ).
HIDs need to be properly fitted. Self-levelling and washers only need to work IF FITTED (his comment and the AA disagree on this ).
Self-locking steering is nothing to do with the ignition key (as I prevoisly thought ). It refers to the stops at the end of the steering rack (where fitted).
ABS is the killer. Lots of cars have ABS faults that have been "cured" by removing the bulb. This is a FAIL. The bulb must light and then extinguish when ignition is first switched on.
HIDs need to be properly fitted. Self-levelling and washers only need to work IF FITTED (his comment and the AA disagree on this ).
Self-locking steering is nothing to do with the ignition key (as I prevoisly thought ). It refers to the stops at the end of the steering rack (where fitted).
ABS is the killer. Lots of cars have ABS faults that have been "cured" by removing the bulb. This is a FAIL. The bulb must light and then extinguish when ignition is first switched on.
Pingu
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- Joined: Fri 19 Jun, 2009 10:27
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- Location: Daglan, France
Regs
Hmm - it does state that 'Vehicles fitted with aftermarket HID systems must also be fitted with properly working washer and levelling systems.'
Perhaps your MoT man hadbeen confused by requirements for operation of headlamp self levelling and washers in the context of non-HID headlights.
Perhaps your MoT man hadbeen confused by requirements for operation of headlamp self levelling and washers in the context of non-HID headlights.
If the car has an aftermarket HID kit fitted, they will be legal providing they work. No headlight washing system or auto levelling will need to be fitted.
This was according to my MOT tester, he said that he would not fail a car with an after market HID kit providing they are fitted and adjusted properly.
I know the AA site says they have to be fitted, but The AA wont be doing your MOT!
I also found this: From the VOSA website.an extract from the 2012 MOT test manual
"Vehicles equipped with High Intensity Discharge (HID) or LED dipped beam headlamps may be fitted with headlamp washers and a suspension or headlamp self levelling system. Where such systems are fitted, they must work;"
and from their website. "VOSA - Private Passenger and Light Commercial Vehicle Testing MOT Inspection Manual".
linky
look at section 3 and either download the complete manual (its page 28). or browse to section 1.7.
no mention of a requirement to fit washers or levelling to after market HID's or even aftermarket HID's as a separate case, backing up MOT testers comments, and proving the AA advising wrongly, which is shocking.
This was according to my MOT tester, he said that he would not fail a car with an after market HID kit providing they are fitted and adjusted properly.
I know the AA site says they have to be fitted, but The AA wont be doing your MOT!
I also found this: From the VOSA website.an extract from the 2012 MOT test manual
"Vehicles equipped with High Intensity Discharge (HID) or LED dipped beam headlamps may be fitted with headlamp washers and a suspension or headlamp self levelling system. Where such systems are fitted, they must work;"
and from their website. "VOSA - Private Passenger and Light Commercial Vehicle Testing MOT Inspection Manual".
linky
look at section 3 and either download the complete manual (its page 28). or browse to section 1.7.
no mention of a requirement to fit washers or levelling to after market HID's or even aftermarket HID's as a separate case, backing up MOT testers comments, and proving the AA advising wrongly, which is shocking.
Last edited by gookah on Mon 23 Jan, 2012 20:49, edited 1 time in total.
Z3 2.8 Progress Journal (Mine)
Z3 1.9 Sport Progress Journal (Wifey's)
I have an element of 'M-styling' on my car, If that's a good enough reason for the manufacturers to adorn a 320 with the M badge, then its certainly a good enough reason for me..
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Date
Yes - but the regulations on this link date were last revised in 2011, so it looks as if a new revision is out there somewhere, but has not yet been placed on the website.
I have asked the AA ro provide details of the VOSA press release - maybe it's a plot to give AA garages more work?
I have asked the AA ro provide details of the VOSA press release - maybe it's a plot to give AA garages more work?
At the foot of the MOT test Manual in the link it says
"Issue date 1st January 2012", So it is the latest MOT test manual.
"Issue date 1st January 2012", So it is the latest MOT test manual.
Z3 2.8 Progress Journal (Mine)
Z3 1.9 Sport Progress Journal (Wifey's)
I have an element of 'M-styling' on my car, If that's a good enough reason for the manufacturers to adorn a 320 with the M badge, then its certainly a good enough reason for me..
The other interesting bit is this:
"Products on the lens or light source that obviously reduce the light's intensity or change its colour will become a reason for failure – applies to front/rear position lamps, registration plate lamps, stop lamps, rear fog and direction indicators"
Don't manufacturers supply & fit as standard chrome indicator bulbs to vehicles with clear lenses? That looks like a fail now too.
"Products on the lens or light source that obviously reduce the light's intensity or change its colour will become a reason for failure – applies to front/rear position lamps, registration plate lamps, stop lamps, rear fog and direction indicators"
Don't manufacturers supply & fit as standard chrome indicator bulbs to vehicles with clear lenses? That looks like a fail now too.
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- Joined: Fri 19 Jun, 2009 10:27
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Dates
It's odd - the front page has an overall revision date of 2011, but the Headlights page is 2012! It would not be the first time that a contractor had made an error is assembling such a publication.
It will be interesting to see where the AA obtained its information.
It will be interesting to see where the AA obtained its information.
I would have thought chrome indicator bulbs wouldn't be the issue as they do illuminate bright amber. I think the issue will be headlight bulbs that emmit bright blue which aftermarket HID's can do as well as standard bulbs like the Philips Bluevision bulbs, also LED sidelight and number plate bulbs might fall foul plus what about tinted lenses where some rear lights are blacked out almost to the point you can't see them illuminated at night.
Many of these can only be a good thing it will just be how they are interpretated by the MOT tester where arguments may ensue.
Many of these can only be a good thing it will just be how they are interpretated by the MOT tester where arguments may ensue.
Aceman
Arctic Silver '98 Z3M
Previously;
Bright RED '99 Z3 2.8
Rocking seats ? You need seat bushes click HERE
Arctic Silver '98 Z3M
Previously;
Bright RED '99 Z3 2.8
Rocking seats ? You need seat bushes click HERE
Re: Dates
Every page has a footer saying "Issue Date 1st January 2012", including the Preface/ revisions pageMike Fishwick wrote:It's odd - the front page has an overall revision date of 2011, but the Headlights page is 2012! It would not be the first time that a contractor had made an error is assembling such a publication.
Z3 2.8 Progress Journal (Mine)
Z3 1.9 Sport Progress Journal (Wifey's)
I have an element of 'M-styling' on my car, If that's a good enough reason for the manufacturers to adorn a 320 with the M badge, then its certainly a good enough reason for me..
ABS Light going out when ignition switch on
I think you will find that the ABS light usually goes out after the car has moved and the sensors have registered.
Also I read in the in Landrover monthly Feb 2012 that..
"From the 1st of January 2012, vehicles fitted with HID and LED headlights will fail the MOT (though just an 'advisory' rather than a straigt fail will be issued for the first few months) unless the the vehicle has headlamp washers and auto-levelling (i.e. not manual levelling) headlights or suspension. Very stiffly sprung vehicles, such as sports cars, with minimal suspension travel are exempt"
The final section I think could include Z3s
Also I read in the in Landrover monthly Feb 2012 that..
"From the 1st of January 2012, vehicles fitted with HID and LED headlights will fail the MOT (though just an 'advisory' rather than a straigt fail will be issued for the first few months) unless the the vehicle has headlamp washers and auto-levelling (i.e. not manual levelling) headlights or suspension. Very stiffly sprung vehicles, such as sports cars, with minimal suspension travel are exempt"
The final section I think could include Z3s
Looks like 'Landrover Monthly' need to make VOSA aware of the need to add it to ISBN 978-0-9549352-5-2 VOSA 'Private Passenger and Light Commercial Vehicle Testing MOT Inspection Manual" as in the link above.....
Z3 2.8 Progress Journal (Mine)
Z3 1.9 Sport Progress Journal (Wifey's)
I have an element of 'M-styling' on my car, If that's a good enough reason for the manufacturers to adorn a 320 with the M badge, then its certainly a good enough reason for me..
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- Joined: Fri 19 Jun, 2009 10:27
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- Location: Daglan, France
Vosa
VOSA confirm that subject to the beam pattern being aceptable, HIDs without washers and self levelling are OK - don't know where the AA got their info that such after-market lights were illegal!
Obviously, an HID tube stuffed into a headlamp designed for a halogen bulbs will - unless you are very lucky - fail the test.
Obviously, an HID tube stuffed into a headlamp designed for a halogen bulbs will - unless you are very lucky - fail the test.
Re: Vosa
Not sure about this as "Angel Eyes" are sidelights and not headlights. Providing they don't dazzle and they are white I think they will pass.Mike Fishwick wrote:Obviously, an HID tube stuffed into a headlamp designed for a halogen bulbs will - unless you are very lucky - fail the test.
Pingu
Looks like the VOSA MOT Inspection Manual is actually correct then,
which is handy
which is handy
Z3 2.8 Progress Journal (Mine)
Z3 1.9 Sport Progress Journal (Wifey's)
I have an element of 'M-styling' on my car, If that's a good enough reason for the manufacturers to adorn a 320 with the M badge, then its certainly a good enough reason for me..
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- Joined: Fri 19 Jun, 2009 10:27
- Posts: 2093
- Location: Daglan, France
Obviously, an HID tube stuffed into a headlamp designed for a halogen bulbs will - unless you are very lucky - fail the test.
Not sure about this as "Angel Eyes" are sidelights and not headlights. Providing they don't dazzle and they are white I think they will pass.
I was referring to the use of HID tubes in a normal headlamp - not Angel Eyes.
Not sure about this as "Angel Eyes" are sidelights and not headlights. Providing they don't dazzle and they are white I think they will pass.
I was referring to the use of HID tubes in a normal headlamp - not Angel Eyes.
I think when they talk about "products on the light or lens source" they're talking about tints/stockings and crap that reduce the light output.
I think it would be very difficult to enforce after market HID on cars WITHOUT self-levelling because I have seen it mentioned that cars such as some Mitsubishi EVOs that come with HIDs but without self-levellers.
I think it would be very difficult to enforce after market HID on cars WITHOUT self-levelling because I have seen it mentioned that cars such as some Mitsubishi EVOs that come with HIDs but without self-levellers.
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??
Levelling as washers are only required or Xeon lamps.
Does this mean that '(Auto) Levelling and washers are only required on Xe(n)on lamps?'
Xenon is a gas of the halogen group, and is used in halogen bulbs - as was chlorine and bromine.
Whoever you spoke to obviously did not know the difference between HID and Halogen lights . . .
Does this mean that '(Auto) Levelling and washers are only required on Xe(n)on lamps?'
Xenon is a gas of the halogen group, and is used in halogen bulbs - as was chlorine and bromine.
Whoever you spoke to obviously did not know the difference between HID and Halogen lights . . .
Actually Xenon is one of the Noble or Inert gasses, along with Krypton, Argon and Neon, all of which are used in the manufacture of lightbulbs.
Halogens are a different group of elements, and do indeed include Chlorine and Bromine as well as Iodine, and tiny quantities of these are used along with an inert gas to make a halogen bulb. The halogen has the effect of prolonging the life of the bulb.
It is a common error to refer to HIDs (High Intensity Discharge) as Xenons. Whilst some may contain Xenon, the principal involves an electric arc and has more in common with streetlamps than conventional incandescent bulbs with their hot tungsten filaments.
Xeon on the other hand is a brand of Intel processor and wouldn't provide much in the way of illumination (I'm hoping that was just a typo!)
I have Xenon headlamps on my zed, but they are just ordinary incandescent bulbs filled with Xenon gas, not HIDs. They may be brighter than ordinary bulbs, but they are 'E' marked, which means they are both legal and do not require any special levelling or headlamp washers.
Projectors on the other hand use conventional bulbs, but use lenses to focus the light rather than just the parabolic reflectors used on our standard headlights.
Don't you just love FUD.
Cheers R.
Halogens are a different group of elements, and do indeed include Chlorine and Bromine as well as Iodine, and tiny quantities of these are used along with an inert gas to make a halogen bulb. The halogen has the effect of prolonging the life of the bulb.
It is a common error to refer to HIDs (High Intensity Discharge) as Xenons. Whilst some may contain Xenon, the principal involves an electric arc and has more in common with streetlamps than conventional incandescent bulbs with their hot tungsten filaments.
Xeon on the other hand is a brand of Intel processor and wouldn't provide much in the way of illumination (I'm hoping that was just a typo!)
I have Xenon headlamps on my zed, but they are just ordinary incandescent bulbs filled with Xenon gas, not HIDs. They may be brighter than ordinary bulbs, but they are 'E' marked, which means they are both legal and do not require any special levelling or headlamp washers.
Projectors on the other hand use conventional bulbs, but use lenses to focus the light rather than just the parabolic reflectors used on our standard headlights.
Don't you just love FUD.
Cheers R.
Arctic Silver '99 Z3 1.9 & Black '59 Frogeye 1275cc
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A Positive Maybe?
VOSA have just issued a new Testing Directive to accompany the newTest Manual, which says that:
The presence and operation of these headlamp cleaning and levelling devices has been added to the test. Therefore, if a mandatory headlamp levelling or cleaning device is missing, inoperative or otherwise obviously defective, the vehicle will fail.
This raises the question of whether these checks apply to vehicles fitted with after-market HID lighting kits. These kits convert conventional halogen headlamps to HID Xenon and they are widely sold and fitted to vehicles used on the road. The Department for Transport considers that after-market systems should be required to meet the same safety standards as that applied in respect of these lamps at vehicle Type Approval. Therefore, in order to pass the MOT test, vehicles fitted with after-market HID systems would also need to be fitted with headlamp cleaning and self-levelling systems. Some high specification estate cars are fitted with a self-levelling
suspension system and this would be considered as adequate for the purpose.
It is also worthy of note that a few high performance vehicles fitted with HID headlamps that have barely any luggage space and stiff suspension do not require a self-levelling system.
This means that a car with HIDs and soft suspension (such as a 7 series) should have washers and self-levelling, but - maybe and perhaps - a car with HIDs and firm suspension, particularly with no rear seats and a small boot (such as a Z3) does not.
What do you make of that?
The presence and operation of these headlamp cleaning and levelling devices has been added to the test. Therefore, if a mandatory headlamp levelling or cleaning device is missing, inoperative or otherwise obviously defective, the vehicle will fail.
This raises the question of whether these checks apply to vehicles fitted with after-market HID lighting kits. These kits convert conventional halogen headlamps to HID Xenon and they are widely sold and fitted to vehicles used on the road. The Department for Transport considers that after-market systems should be required to meet the same safety standards as that applied in respect of these lamps at vehicle Type Approval. Therefore, in order to pass the MOT test, vehicles fitted with after-market HID systems would also need to be fitted with headlamp cleaning and self-levelling systems. Some high specification estate cars are fitted with a self-levelling
suspension system and this would be considered as adequate for the purpose.
It is also worthy of note that a few high performance vehicles fitted with HID headlamps that have barely any luggage space and stiff suspension do not require a self-levelling system.
This means that a car with HIDs and soft suspension (such as a 7 series) should have washers and self-levelling, but - maybe and perhaps - a car with HIDs and firm suspension, particularly with no rear seats and a small boot (such as a Z3) does not.
What do you make of that?
Just had MOT on my E46 330 which has both after market HIDs and the angel eyes fitted. No advisories and passed. I have adjusted correctly (manually) so they do not blind people and love them, get a really nice clear light compared to my old bulbs. So to those who hate them, hate the person that didn't fit and adjust them correctly.
I have also fitted them on the Zed with same effect. Light is stunning
MOT done by ex BMW tester now working at local Kwik Fit £35! also had AC recharged for £29
I have also fitted them on the Zed with same effect. Light is stunning
MOT done by ex BMW tester now working at local Kwik Fit £35! also had AC recharged for £29
Z3 1.9 | 17" ACS Style 2s refurbed in grey/silver | Debadged | New Rear Window | Retro fitted Fog lights | HID kit | Clarion slim sub | Clear side indicators | Colour coded handles | Halo Front lights | Hardtop | Winter 15" Style 27s on Vredestein Wintrax
The lights will be dazzling more than halogen, and definitely more than proper xenons with projector cut-off. Even if you think the beam is set right, there will be excess light bleed, the E46 may be better than the Z3 for it, the HB3 Z3 lamp housings have extra top bleed by design with the halogens for lighting up signs but with HID this is really bright (motorway gantries light up bright even with the "beam" set right). The E46 probably has an open reflector housing with a cover at the front of the bulb?
In my experience the headlights with faceted lenses and plain parabolic reflectors (Mk1 and 2 Mondeo for example) are not too good, but those with plain clear lenses (Mk3 Mondeo type) and faceted reflectors are pretty good. Z3 headlights fall into the first category as standard, but the projector type aftermarket ones might be better. It might depend on how ratty the tester is on the day...