Engine rattle
Engine rattle
Hi all, i have had my Z3 for a year now and since then been trying to trace the source of a rattle from the engine. The car is a W reg 2.0 litre 2000 model with 49000 miles on the clock.
The noise appears to be coming from the oil filter housing,and sounds like a lolly stick in the spokes of a bicycle wheel when revved(as someone described it).The noise has no effect on performance, just embarrassing until it is fully warmed. Noise only appears after the car has been started a second time during the same day not first thing in the morning.
I slowly removed the lid from the oil filter housing today and was surprised to find that no oil leaked out.It appears that there's not enough oil in there but the dipstick is bang on. Confused i checked my M5 (E39) to find that the filter housing is full of oil.
Any ideas.
The noise appears to be coming from the oil filter housing,and sounds like a lolly stick in the spokes of a bicycle wheel when revved(as someone described it).The noise has no effect on performance, just embarrassing until it is fully warmed. Noise only appears after the car has been started a second time during the same day not first thing in the morning.
I slowly removed the lid from the oil filter housing today and was surprised to find that no oil leaked out.It appears that there's not enough oil in there but the dipstick is bang on. Confused i checked my M5 (E39) to find that the filter housing is full of oil.
Any ideas.
Engine rattle
They have little rubber O rings in there somewhere to stop the oil running back they probably need replacing. Someone with better knowledge should be able to tell you exactly where they are.
Heath on Tapatalk
Heath on Tapatalk
Re: Engine rattle
The filter cap that you unscrew has two o-rings at the bottom of the spike that seal the filter compartment, and oil drains into the sump when you unscrew it. So no oil in the filter housing is normal I believe.
1997 2.8 Z3 | Gallery Thread
Re: Engine rattle
I'll do another oil change - using Edge 5w 30- at the weekend and change the two rubber washers to see if it makes a difference. I changed the oil as soon as i got the car.
Thanks for the info on the empty reservoir, at least that's normal.
Thanks for the info on the empty reservoir, at least that's normal.
Re: Engine rattle
O rings....
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do ... g=11&fg=30
but it sound like it could be a noisy lifter?
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do ... g=11&fg=30
but it sound like it could be a noisy lifter?
Re: Engine rattle
I have had that noise on my 2 litre V reg. I have owned the car for just over 3 years and replacing the thermostat and a few frequent oil changes have reduced the noise to next to nothing for about a mile when cold. Once hot the negine runs really smoothly. I have never seen a post which clearly defines what the noise is but I am convinced that it comes from the vanos. Your 2 litre car will have the M52TU engine with the double vanos system. On each camshaft there is a piston assembly which moves axially under oil pressure relative to the camshafts and by means of a helical spline varies the cam timing. As the pistons do not rotate but the camshaft does the thrust is transmitted through a thrust ball bearing on each shaft. I don't believe these are the finest ball bearings in the world and when cold can have excess clearance leading to the noise, especially at about 1800 rpm. Good lubricant circulation can minimise the noise until the engine reaches operating temperature when things expand and settle down. There is a company called Beisan Systems which sells a kit to adjust the bearings and remove the noise. I have been tempted to give it a try but would like to hear from someone who has done it before. My experience is that, with proper maintenance, the noise has reduced rather than get worse over time and I believe you could live with it for some time just taking it gently for the first mile in the morning.
Hope this has been helpful.
Hope this has been helpful.
Re: Engine rattle
I went to look at an M3 last year, the first thing I noticed was a "lolly pop in spokes" kind of noise coming from the engine. If was difficult to work out exactly where the noise was coming from so I used a screw driver as a stethoscope. Basically, put the fat end to your ear and the pointy end on various engine components until you find the noise. Unfortunately for the M3 owner, it was the vanos on this occasion so what Zebedee says makes a lot of sense.Zedbedee wrote:I have had that noise on my 2 litre V reg. I have owned the car for just over 3 years and replacing the thermostat and a few frequent oil changes have reduced the noise to next to nothing for about a mile when cold. Once hot the negine runs really smoothly. I have never seen a post which clearly defines what the noise is but I am convinced that it comes from the vanos. Your 2 litre car will have the M52TU engine with the double vanos system. On each camshaft there is a piston assembly which moves axially under oil pressure relative to the camshafts and by means of a helical spline varies the cam timing. As the pistons do not rotate but the camshaft does the thrust is transmitted through a thrust ball bearing on each shaft. I don't believe these are the finest ball bearings in the world and when cold can have excess clearance leading to the noise, especially at about 1800 rpm. Good lubricant circulation can minimise the noise until the engine reaches operating temperature when things expand and settle down. There is a company called Beisan Systems which sells a kit to adjust the bearings and remove the noise. I have been tempted to give it a try but would like to hear from someone who has done it before. My experience is that, with proper maintenance, the noise has reduced rather than get worse over time and I believe you could live with it for some time just taking it gently for the first mile in the morning.
Hope this has been helpful.
Z3 3.0, Ford ST220, Jaguar XK8, Mr2 GT Turbo, Fiat Bravo HGT, Cavalier, Astra convertible, MK1 Astra GTE, XR3i, E21 323i, XR3, Cavalier, VW Jetta, Rover SDi, Capri 2.0S, Audi 80 GTE, another Cavalier, brown Astra van, Citroen GS Club (we all had to start somewhere).
Re: Engine rattle
Thanks, that has been helpful. My rattle noise is never there on first start-up whether morning or night. I tracked the noise by listening with large screwdriver and it is definitely coming from the oil filter housing. I'll be picking-up the O rings in the morning and hope to change the oil again but this time using oil for Diesel engine cars as suggested elsewhere.Zedbedee wrote:I have had that noise on my 2 litre V reg. I have owned the car for just over 3 years and replacing the thermostat and a few frequent oil changes have reduced the noise to next to nothing for about a mile when cold. Once hot the negine runs really smoothly. I have never seen a post which clearly defines what the noise is but I am convinced that it comes from the vanos. Your 2 litre car will have the M52TU engine with the double vanos system. On each camshaft there is a piston assembly which moves axially under oil pressure relative to the camshafts and by means of a helical spline varies the cam timing. As the pistons do not rotate but the camshaft does the thrust is transmitted through a thrust ball bearing on each shaft. I don't believe these are the finest ball bearings in the world and when cold can have excess clearance leading to the noise, especially at about 1800 rpm. Good lubricant circulation can minimise the noise until the engine reaches operating temperature when things expand and settle down. There is a company called Beisan Systems which sells a kit to adjust the bearings and remove the noise. I have been tempted to give it a try but would like to hear from someone who has done it before. My experience is that, with proper maintenance, the noise has reduced rather than get worse over time and I believe you could live with it for some time just taking it gently for the first mile in the morning.
Hope this has been helpful.
Took a look at the Beisan Systems web site and willing to try that if all else fails, perfect excuse to get out of the house hold chores.
Peteslag thanks for the tip re the screwdriver.
Re: Engine rattle
my twin vanos has got this rattle as it warms up, i bought a set of seals and spacers for it too just havent got round to fitting them yet.. it supposedly sorts it out completely.
Re: Engine rattle
This seems to be a problem mine dos'nt have
Makes a change
Makes a change
99 2.0 Topaz Individual
Re: Engine rattle
Your very lucky. Last week i changed the oil for diesel engine oil, fitted a new filter with new o rings and the noise disappeared..... for about 30 miles of town driving.Devon Z wrote:This seems to be a problem mine dos'nt have
Makes a change
Its now back as it was, fine first thing but when started later the same day the rattle comes back.
As i've traced the noise to the oil filter housing can anyone tell me if there's any moving parts in there.
I've changed the tensioner previously.
Any ideas.
Re: Engine rattle
the only moving part im aware of in their is the non return valve.
just done mine so have pics of it.
as for the oil i would give it chance to start cleaning before i'd look at anything else..it will start to move the gunk if you keep with it
just done mine so have pics of it.
as for the oil i would give it chance to start cleaning before i'd look at anything else..it will start to move the gunk if you keep with it
Re: Engine rattle
Thanks swamper, i'll leave the oil for a thousand miles or so and see how things are then.
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Rattle
It is possible that your noise is caused by pulsation in the oil crcuit - akin to shock waves - as the pump operates. This is more prevalent when the oil is cold, as it can cause the oil pressure relief valve to open and close violently, and has been known to make an odd noise when the engine is cold on older 3 Series models. As the relief valve is in the oil pump housing, it is a major job to even look at it.
I too would suggest keeping running the car on your current diesel/petrol engine oil, and see if the noise goes away. If the car has been cursed with a lot of short cold running, and servicing as per the Service Indicator lights - it will have accumulated a lot of sludge which will not clear overnight. Remember that garages now usually suck the old oil out, often when it is cold, which leaves plaenty of sludge to settle out an accumulate.
I too would suggest keeping running the car on your current diesel/petrol engine oil, and see if the noise goes away. If the car has been cursed with a lot of short cold running, and servicing as per the Service Indicator lights - it will have accumulated a lot of sludge which will not clear overnight. Remember that garages now usually suck the old oil out, often when it is cold, which leaves plaenty of sludge to settle out an accumulate.
A Z3 is not just for Christmas - it's for life!
Re: Rattle
Thanks for that.Mike Fishwick wrote:It is possible that your noise is caused by pulsation in the oil crcuit - akin to shock waves - as the pump operates. This is more prevalent when the oil is cold, as it can cause the oil pressure relief valve to open and close violently, and has been known to make an odd noise when the engine is cold on older 3 Series models. As the relief valve is in the oil pump housing, it is a major job to even look at it.
I too would suggest keeping running the car on your current diesel/petrol engine oil, and see if the noise goes away. If the car has been cursed with a lot of short cold running, and servicing as per the Service Indicator lights - it will have accumulated a lot of sludge which will not clear overnight. Remember that garages now usually suck the old oil out, often when it is cold, which leaves plaenty of sludge to settle out an accumulate.
Noticed that the rattle is there after around a few minutes starting, once fully warmed the rattle is gone.
Forgot to mention i changed the water pump and thermostat when i first bought the car.