Z3 Sellers Overpricing Their Car

[LookinFoolish]

Recently, I've been browsing not just this forum, but other Z forums, eBay, Autotrader, Pistonheads etc. You get the idea. It's alarming how many people over-price their Z3. Now, when we sell a car, we all generally put our asking price as high as we can get away with, so if someone knocks us down a couple of hundred £, it's still OK to do the deal. I'm seeing alot of high mileage Zeds being advertised (not sold, but advertised) at silly prices. For example, I've seen some Zeds with over 150,000 miles for way over £3,000 - And that's a 1998 model !!!

Since being a member of this website I've also noticed a couple of people over-pricing their car when advertising and I hate to be the one to say it but - At some point, reality and common sense needs to set in. A Zed, in my opinion is quickly becoming a classic car, if it isn't already. I believe there's less than 20,000 Z3's on Britains roads today, making it a relatively rare find compared to some brands and models of car on the market, so It will always be worth a fair amount and will not depreciate more than other cars will at the same age. When looking for a car, I look for the following:

1) Low mileage
2) FSH (please don't start an argument on this one again guys )
3) As few owners as possible
4) Adding from FSH, I want to see all documents such as V5 to show the registered keeper, not legal owner. I can also see if car reg / chassis no. are exactly the same as on the forms
5) I want to see if there is any tax remaining on the car
6) In the case of a Z3, I might even check out the VIN label on the car if it has any
7) I want to see service and repair history and well as repair receipts so I can make a note of any recurring problems, or any expensive problems and if they've been fixed to a good standard, not botched

I'm writing this fast, so I've probably missed things. But my main point being: Lots of high mileage cars with lots of owners 6+ owners, with little or no documentation are being advertised at top dollar.


Is it just me or has anyone else spotted this? The Z is a lovely car but some asking prices are a bit......how can I put it......'ambitious'. I've seen Z3's at the same price as 2003-2004 Z4's Crazy.

[Jonttt]

With regard to owners I don't think 6 for a 15 year old car is very high ?

I don't really see the logic in how number of owners affects a cars quality ? or the myth that one previous owner is perfect.

I'm the forth owner of my Z3 which for a 10 year old car I don't see as a problem. My first Z had 8 owners which I also did not see as a problem.

[LookinFoolish]

With regard to owners I don't think 6 for a 15 year old car is very high ?

I don't really see the logic in how number of owners affects a cars quality ? or the myth that one previous owner is perfect.

I'm the forth owner of my Z3 which for a 10 year old car I don't see as a problem. My first Z had 8 owners which I also did not see as a problem.

Generally, the more owners the car gathers, you begin to think; 'Why has the car been passed around so much?'. Now you could argue that it's a summer car, and gets passed around alot, which it does, to a degree. 4 Owners isn't bad at all, but if it's getting to 8 or more I'd start asking questions (depending on age of course).

[XVar]

I agree with previous owners not being too relevant on a 15 year old car but I've definitely seen some overpriced Z3's in the Stock Exchange recently.

[billz]

There is also the other side of the story good late model Z3 are fetching in some cases around the price you mentioned. I have seen 2001 3.0 for around or just over 3k with around 65000mls. A car (any car) is only worht what someone will pay, it doesnt matter what the owner thinks its worth, i wouldnt let mine go for less than 5k preferably 5.5 to 6 but know i either wouldnt get it or would have to lower the price quite a bit. Good job i am not planning on selling it
bill

[LookinFoolish]

Also, what I probably didn't clarify in the first post, is that; it's not just that the car the car has lots of owners........it's coupled with the fact the car has high mileage, little documentation etc etc and STILL, the price is high. It's a combination of all the things I listed.

If a car had around 100,000 miles, 15 years old and 5-6 owners, then sure, that's fine. But a car with 150,000 miles, no service docs, no tax, 10 owners etc....but still asking for top dollar...you see the difference?

[walrus5668]

i bought a 97 2.8 z3 in arctic silver with 90k on the clock and most of its service history for £950 only 4 weeks ago...granted it needed a clutch so it stood me £1200 after that was fitted....a bargain i thought !!!

[JoeyD]

I live in Spain most of the year as i am a teacher there. We in England should feel lucky with the price we pay for our cars. A 1997 bog standard Z3 over there,and most of Europe, would be over 5thousand. Just check ebay.fr or ebay.es to check out the prices. Mileage is irrelevant, they are all over this price. The best thing is that our car looks way more than its worth if you travel abroad! i had a Alfa GTV last year,took it to Portugal, cost me 1500pounds, equivalent was around 12000!! Obviously its all irrelevant as we are RHD and they are LHD but its still nice to think we are well off... And dont even get me started on the prices of spares in Europe opposed to England either! astronomical!!

[('_')Z3]

http://autotrader.mobi/used-cars/advert ... sc9b7hp294

This Z has just gone on up for sale near me only last week. Is in great condition, drove past the garage today SOLD!!
Everyone has to be realistic about there pride and joys value and fundamentally everyone expects top dollar for the car their selling yet wants a bargain for the car they're buying. Times are tough.

[LookinFoolish]

i bought a 97 2.8 z3 in arctic silver with 90k on the clock and most of its service history for £950 only 4 weeks ago...granted it needed a clutch so it stood me £1200 after that was fitted....a bargain i thought !!!

That's still a fair price congrats!

http://autotrader.mobi/used-cars/advert ... sc9b7hp294

This Z has just gone on up for sale near me only last week. Is in great condition, drove past the garage today SOLD!!
Everyone has to be realistic about there pride and joys value and fundamentally everyone expects top dollar for the car their selling yet wants a bargain for the car they're buying. Times are tough.

I actually think that is a VERY reasonable asking price. Low owners, low mileage. Doesn't mention service history, so maybe you could get the price down, but a 1.9 , 1998 model in that condition sounds good. If it came with tonneau and wind deflector, even better!

There are some decent offers out there but there's definitely some people asking for TOO much.

Interesting to hear about Europe's pricing of cars compared to ours!

[pingu]

http://autotrader.mobi/used-cars/advert ... sc9b7hp294

This Z has just gone on up for sale near me only last week. Is in great condition, drove past the garage today SOLD!!
Everyone has to be realistic about there pride and joys value and fundamentally everyone expects top dollar for the car their selling yet wants a bargain for the car they're buying. Times are tough.

I guess someone offered £2k and the dealer ripped his arm off .

If the dealer got £3.5k, then good luck to him.

Dealers will always get more than private as they can take p/x and provide finance. That's still way more than I would pay.

Walrus got a cracking deal .

[Z3cade]

Its all to do with the market and fuel prices with our big engined zeds...
It wasnt more than two years ago when you would struggle to get a decent 2.8 z3 for less 5K....

[gookah]

What is wrong with people 'overpricing' their Zeds?
No one has to buy it.
If it doesn't sell then that will send a message to lower the price. If it does sell then it was either not overpriced, or the buyer was happy to pay "too much".
No one is forced to buy at the higher price, but if lately all the prices seem to be advertised at the higher price then that surely is what they are worth?

[LookinFoolish]

What is wrong with people 'overpricing' their Zeds?
No one has to buy it.

But that's not strictly true is it? If you're advertising your car........then of course you want to sell it. Over-pricing your car doesn't get it sold, thus defeating the object.

[pingu]

What is wrong with people 'overpricing' their Zeds?
No one has to buy it.

But that's not strictly true is it? If you're advertising your car........then of course you want to sell it. Over-pricing your car doesn't get it sold, thus defeating the object.

If you overprice, you can always drop the price. It's very hard to justify a price increase.

Dropping the price draws interest. Potential buyers may think there is a bargain to be had and they had better be quick.

For instance, have you ever seen this happen?

Week 1 Advertise at £4k
Week 2 Still for sale
Week 3 Still for sale
Week 4 Still for sale

or

Week 1 Advertise at £5k
Week 2 Drop to 4k
Week 3 Sold

[Z3cade]

For instance, have you ever seen this happen?

Week 1 Advertise at £4k
Week 2 Still for sale
Week 3 Still for sale
Week 4 Still for sale

or

Week 1 Advertise at £5k
Week 2 Drop to 4k
Week 3 Sold

No...

But ive seen this happen....

Z3 2.0 forsale in garage near me £6995

2 and a half years later its still forsale....

Classic example of greedy garage pricing!!

[bigchap39]

i just sold the one i bought to fix up for £3 grand.97 reg 2.8 with 138 thou on the clock.
fsh with every receipt including original bill of sale which is amazing viewing with all the add ons he put on it.original cost was £36 thousand.The alpina wheels were £2700 when it was brand new.
I bought it for a grand,spent £1500 restoring old and worn out parts and made £500 profit which really just paid
for the labour on the car.Quite a few of my friends said i sold it to cheaply but i was happy with what i got.
Im now on to the next one which is a V reg 2ltr with 87 thou on the clock.Yet to see whats needing fixed.

[Southernboy]

May you believe, I saw a 97 2.8 (very original looking - no mods)..Going for £10,000.00. Which is only about £1200.00 over what one can buy one privately. I think your cars are about half the price of the local selling prices, and with the mods you guys do, they're really cheap. Only thing we don't have out here are M roadsters.

[geminimustang]

imho,with a lot of zeds for sale are overvalued,knock a £1K from the asking price and you'll see a fair price to both parties.Some people overprice knowing they'll get knocked down,others live in dreamland but the market decides the going rate,related to the seasons,with all the paperwork intact helping both the buyer & seller.High mileage,no receipts,short MOT,loads of owners,top dollar pricing,not for me,too many bargains elsewhere.A 2001,1.9,Z3,one owner,21K,full service history,HPI clear,zed recently sold near me for £4.5K.Absolutely mint example but i thought that was at the top end of pricing but maybe that's because i didn't have £4.5K rattling around my wallet.But with everything right about the car,i understand the sale from both sides.

[gookah]

What is wrong with people 'overpricing' their Zeds?
No one has to buy it.

But that's not strictly true is it? If you're advertising your car........then of course you want to sell it. Over-pricing your car doesn't get it sold, thus defeating the object.

Of course it is true.... no one has to buy it.
and as my post went on to say, (which you omitted to quote):

If it doesn't sell then that will send a message to lower the price.

the seller will have to drop the price if it's too much and he want's to sell it.

What is wrong if I advertise my car for £35,000. If it doesn't sell, I am the only one that will be affected..It's then up to me to drop the price. It is not compulsory for anyone to purchase it at that price.
A car is only worth what a buyer will pay.

[g8jka]

It is completely upto the seller in what they advertise there car at, whether it be overpriced or underpriced. If you feel it is overpriced then you are more likely to go elsewhere. Again, a car is only worth what the buyer will pay for it.

It annoys me how many sellers describe their cars as excellent condition etc only to turn up and find out that the car is tatty and not been look after at all, but maybe that is just the high standards we have from being enthusiats. Prices have gone up slightly in the last few months as they do at this time of year, every year. Like previously said though, they have falling quite considerably compared to what the were 2 years ago.

I know that if I wanted to sell mine the price I would want is much higher than what market value is because I know how much work and money has been spent on it, but that doesn't mean I would get anywhere near the price I wanted. Still wouldn't stop me trying, it only takes one buyer to agree. If it didn't sell the price would then get dropped until it did.

[Jonttt]

Cartel pricing I say and no Z3 should be advertised for less than £10k

I really don't see the problem in people overpricing their cars (which I agree there are plenty of examples of). If they get the price then well done or more likely they won't sell it. It just means the cars which are priced correctly are more likely to sell / get viewed. I can only see overpriced cars helping to keep prices higher (albeit by a small margin maybe).

The bigger problem are those that are described as good/pristine condition when in reality they are far from. I don't agree this is down to differing standards, I think its a case of better to have someone look and not buy than not look at all and sod the inconvenience I've put them through.

I've done it with alloys before now. Driven a long way to pick a set up described as pristine, been sent pics only to find the wheels where crap and the pics obviously years old. I just turn away and walk off now before I get myself in trouble.

[Southernboy]

The wheel will turn. Those who can keep their cars will benefit. The number of cars is always diminishing, and will eventually reach a point where getting a decent car will be harder to come by. It'll be those that will be able to ask any price to a serious buyer / collector.

[walrus5668]

The wheel will turn. Those who can keep their cars will benefit. The number of cars is always diminishing, and will eventually reach a point where getting a decent car will be harder to come by. It'll be those that will be able to ask any price to a serious buyer / collector.

This is true of the BMW E30 scene at the moment...these car are getting harder to find for decent ones anyway...the price of E30's has risen quite a lot over the last year. Ive bought , restored/fixed and then sold 6 E30's this year and ive made very healthy profit on each of them because the market is healthy for them and resale prices are good...But finding them in the first place wasnt easy. I travelled twice on the plane to northern ireland, bought 2 E30 's and drove the cars back. I think in time this may happen with Z3's as they are a special car and will become collectable. It happens to a lot of iconic cars dosnt it ...mk2 escorts, ford capri's, mk1 escorts and many others. As time goes on these iconic cars get rarer and the prices go up !!

[OldskoolRS]

This is true of the BMW E30 scene at the moment...these car are getting harder to find for decent ones anyway...the price of E30's has risen quite a lot over the last year. Ive bought , restored/fixed and then sold 6 E30's this year and ive made very healthy profit on each of them because the market is healthy for them and resale prices are good...But finding them in the first place wasnt easy. I travelled twice on the plane to northern ireland, bought 2 E30 's and drove the cars back. I think in time this may happen with Z3's as they are a special car and will become collectable. It happens to a lot of iconic cars dosnt it ...mk2 escorts, ford capri's, mk1 escorts and many others. As time goes on these iconic cars get rarer and the prices go up !!

Seeing the price of even 4 door low engine sized Mk2 Escorts these days is shocking. Thankfully I only paid £1,000 for my 1979 RS2000 Custom with 2 owners and under 60,000 miles genuine. Small matter that it was my parent's car (since 1980) and I now need to recommission it as it's been off the road for the last 13 years waiting for a (relatively simple) welding job that I didn't want to bodge and now needs brakes, hoses, tyres, etc. If I ever sell it I had to share any profit with them though, which was the deal when I bought it...

I think I'll have to own my 3.0/2001 for a very long time to see any kind of increase in value, but I bought it almost taking the view that if something major went wrong with it, then I'd break it and write the loss off, though that's very worst case scenario: In practice I'd hoped it would at least maintain it's value once the initial dealer profit of perhaps £1,000 was discounted, especially given my 'rolling improvement program' . It seems that I would be a bit optimistic expecting £4.5k for mine now looking at current prices (at least for ones that have then sold). If I was to sell, I'd look at what others are asking (and try to follow which ones sell) and price accordingly. I don't see much point asking too much and then not selling it. Certainly seems to be a few on here and elsewhere that are hopelessly optimistic, but then single marque forums tend to slightly over value their particular cars anyway.

Hopefully it's not something I'll be trying to do for a long time...

[pingu]

I think the true price of a car is the price paid at auction. Everything on top of that is profit/greed/niavity.

Take a trip to BCA and have a laugh (Z4s going for £3.5k, Z3s rarely make more than £3k).

[OldskoolRS]

Trouble is that buying a car as old as a Z3 at auction could well be a money pit. I've been plenty of times but never had the bottle to buy a car at one, even years ago when I was young and naive. Personally prefer to be able to check a car over properly with a test drive to make sure...IIRC once you buy an auction car you have very little comeback, so I don't think it's fair to say that is the correct price and everything else is greed, etc. Auctions are very often used to dispose of cars with issues or big bills due shortly, hence there is a saving due to the risk. I'd maybe consider buying a 2-3 year old car if I didn't have a company car for daily use, but anything as old as our cars and any saving could instantly be wiped out with the first big repair bill.

[walrus5668]

auctions are a joke and are by no means reflect the true values of cars. Im a car trader and its common practice for both private sellers and dealers to send reps to the auctions to shill bid the cars up....in other words ..false bids are put on cars to raise the value before the last unsuspecting bidder bids with the winning bid....similar to ebay shill bidding. Also a lot of auction house have agreements with the dealerships. What happens is that the auctioneer ghost bids the car up by pointing in a direction and acknowledging a bid when in reality there isnt anyone bidding. If you here "new bidder at the back" you can usually know that the auctioneer is at it.

Really i think in my experience that a car is only worth what someone wants to pay. I personally have sold cars for way over there market value because people just want it and come and buy it at the price i advertise it for. Its common practice to add 20% to your desired price when advertising thus this gives you room to negotiate as generally when buyers come they expect to haggle you down. Nothing wrong with that imho its just the way things work.

I always find that just putting your desired car into ebay and clicking "completed listings" then adding up all the ones in green that have sold then dividing that total by the number of cars that sold gives you a great average price of what a car is selling for in the current market. Its a formula ive been using for the last few years and saves me a fortune on glasses guide subscriptions. Its pretty much accurate ive found doing it like this.

[simonbud100]

Personally, I think that Z3's are now overpriced in comparison to newer Z4's. I was happy to sell mine Z3 3.0 for £4.5k a couple of months ago. I did not get many calls, and only one serious viewer who bought the car at the advertised price based on condition.

Mine had 100k miles and 6 owners, but a good service history and in very good condition inside and out, but had a few light scrathches etc. If I was looking for a similar car now, I would expect to find a comparible one for about £3.5k.

I enjoyed both my Z3's, but can honestly say that I have not missed it since selling (probably a lot to do with the weather), but still fancy a Z4

[pingu]

auctions are a joke and are by no means reflect the true values of cars...

Really i think in my experience that a car is only worth what someone wants to pay.

You seem to be contradicting yourself, but if I understand you correctly...

Auctions are a shark pit where businessmen (whose only interest is buying low & selling high) are being bidded up to their highest limit by other businessmen.

The "worth what someone is prepared to pay" comment relates to punters paying for the same car after valeting, etc.

If that's what you mean, I agree 100%.



I've been to several auctions and I've seen some interesting things, including cars going round in the afternoon even though they were sold in the morning [shill backfire?]).

I've bought twice. One was a bargain, one was a real bargain. One car was £2,900 (incl charges) with an estimated forecourt price of £5,495, the other was £5,940 (with charges) with an estimated forecourt price of £7,500.

The £3k one was spot-on and needed nothing and I don't think was bid-up. The other I got for my max bid. I think that what saved me was that I only had to pay dealer's charges, not punter's charges, so the total cost was about £150 less than the under-bidder.

Ebay is a good guide to the price punters are prepared to pay. But, I say, why pay the punter price when you can pay the dealer price. It is a risk (and one day I will lose), but if you can spanner for free, I think it's worth it. If you pay for labour, you have no choice, but to pay punters' prices.

[Sp1key]

Very interesting thread, for the age of Z3s now people in the know will buy on condition with SH mileage and the text in the ad being a good guide but not what really matters - what you see is what you get.

The practice of clocking and faking SH is rife and cannot be relied upon (excluding a properly BMW dealer serviced car where you can always verify)

Pricing is in the domain of the seller, if you definately need to sell the car I find pitching it just right on condition and description and price gets quick results - there are so many rubbish cars out there described as excellent that if you have the description and price just right then the first serious buyer to see bites your hand off.

If you are flying a kite "I'll sell it if I can get this for it" then overpricing but rarely a sale happens

My dad was a car trader so I have been attending car auctions for 35 years, the biggest shift apart from going from smoke filled cattle sheds to red painted bright purpose built venues is that years ago it was the sole domain of traders so prices were consistent and realistic. These days private buyers are encouraged and attend and buy, but the premiums are greedy and rarely are there real bargains as private buyers push up prices.

My rules for buying at auction, never buy a privately entered car, ex fleet are great buys if looked after from appearance, and dealer trade in stock a mixed bag!

Z3 prices? Just enjoy the car you only need to be concerned when you want to buy or sell

[geminimustang]

Personally,i'd buy Privately everytime.Dealers are way over the odds,allowing for part-ex and some costs if the car has to come back in.They normally have to carry the immediate costs of anything returned as the warranty/insurance normally doesn't kick in for a month or two after sale.Auctions favour the brave and the DIY bods who know their way around a tool-box.Every car i've ever purchased Privately has reqd the minimum of work.Cars i've bought from a Dealer have always had to go back with the garage trying to skimp on costs.The warranties i've received have more loopholes than a Politicians Expense Account. Auctions,i'm not brave enough but friends who have been have had mixed experiences,some good,some extremely bad.I find most Private sellers are genuine enough with what they're trying to sell though i do agree,a few of the adverts are fairytales.I read the advert several times,contact the Seller,ask questions and only then proceed to view.

[Z3cade]

Pricing is a very funny thing.. And when it comes to the price of Ms that's a different matter..!

Condition and desirability then take over..

[LookinFoolish]

Pricing is a very funny thing.. And when it comes to the price of Ms that's a different matter..!

Condition and desirability then take over..

I wont get started on the price of M's, those things change like the weather

I haven't ever seen faked documents as someone a few posts above mentioned, you'd have to be dealing with extremely dodgy people to come across things like that. If you go to a private seller, or dealer known locally as 'Dodgy Dave's Autos', then maybe you'll get something like that

The guy I bought my Z3 off was a genuine older guy whom I actually knew through work, so buying a Z off him, you knew it wasn't some boy-racer, installing silly mods to it, ruining the look & feel of the car. It had been properly maintained and was a genuine private sale.

Buying off a dealer - Warranties that aren't worth the paper they're written on and probably an inflated price so they make a profit on whatever they bought the car for, usually ALOT.......LOT less than they want you to pay.

Auctions - Hit & miss. I know someone who went to an auction and had a bad experience, but I'm sure some cars are good, especially ex-military etc.

[si-forks]

Overpriced !!! Just a little
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290746816371? ... 1423.l2649
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