Waterless coolant
- BladeRunner919
- Joined: Fri 17 Feb, 2012 20:18
- Posts: 2225
Waterless coolant
Did anyone see Wheeler Dealers the other day with the TR6? They put in a waterless coolant that looks interesting - shouldn't be any corrosion, doesn't pressurise, lasts forever.
It's this stuff: http://www.evanscoolants.co.uk/
No affiliation. I also posted this on another Z3 forum, so apologies for the duplication to any of you that use both.
It's this stuff: http://www.evanscoolants.co.uk/
No affiliation. I also posted this on another Z3 forum, so apologies for the duplication to any of you that use both.
Re: Waterless coolant
Yes I saw that.. Would it be ok for the Z3s? If so I'm interested as my coolant is due for a change soon
///M Roadster - Evolve Stage 3
Re: Waterless coolant
Yes, I saw it too. Very interesting I thought - but you do have to follow a fairly rigorous flushing and cleaning of the water system before going ahead.
I see great advantages and benefits to it, particularly it's wide operating temperature, it's anti-corrosion effect and the fact that it lasts the lifetime of the vehicle.
But, how much does it cost? I can see this suddenly becoming one of those 'services' which certain types of garages are going to start to offer at silly, Essex boy prices.
I see great advantages and benefits to it, particularly it's wide operating temperature, it's anti-corrosion effect and the fact that it lasts the lifetime of the vehicle.
But, how much does it cost? I can see this suddenly becoming one of those 'services' which certain types of garages are going to start to offer at silly, Essex boy prices.
John Walker
Baarn, Holland
_____________________________________________________________________
The Zed | 2.8 | Topaz Blue | Z4 alloys |97K
Baarn, Holland
_____________________________________________________________________
The Zed | 2.8 | Topaz Blue | Z4 alloys |97K
Re: Waterless coolant
Very true.. I think on wheeler dealers he said a 5ltr tub was around £90 iirc... So won't be cheap.. Probably £200 mark for a garage to flush and fill.. But if it doesn't need doing again then it might be worth it?John1950 wrote:Yes, I saw it too. Very interesting I thought - but you do have to follow a fairly rigorous flushing and cleaning of the water system before going ahead.
I see great advantages and benefits to it, particularly it's wide operating temperature, it's anti-corrosion effect and the fact that it lasts the lifetime of the vehicle.
But, how much does it cost? I can see this suddenly becoming one of those 'services' which certain types of garages are going to start to offer at silly, Essex boy prices.
///M Roadster - Evolve Stage 3
Re: Waterless coolant
Waterless coolant? Sounds like the work of the devil to me
Still........a very wise man once said if the sh@t fits, wear it. If it is as good as it seems, I'd give it a go. Who's going first then........
Still........a very wise man once said if the sh@t fits, wear it. If it is as good as it seems, I'd give it a go. Who's going first then........
Z3 3.0, Ford ST220, Jaguar XK8, Mr2 GT Turbo, Fiat Bravo HGT, Cavalier, Astra convertible, MK1 Astra GTE, XR3i, E21 323i, XR3, Cavalier, VW Jetta, Rover SDi, Capri 2.0S, Audi 80 GTE, another Cavalier, brown Astra van, Citroen GS Club (we all had to start somewhere).
Re: Waterless coolant
This makes a good read (it's an ebay advert, so the link will eventually break) Linky.
This is from the Evans website Evans FAQ.
Don't forget, your coolant system is 8.5 litres, so you will need two bottles of each, though once it has been flushed there should be no need to do it again.
Vintage and Classic seem to be for cast iron engines and Power Cool is for aluminium engines.
Unless you have cooling problems, I would stick to conventional (regularly changed) ethylene glycol-based coolant/water mix, as the cost is 4x that of a regular coolant change for no significant gain.
It is NOT for life, as there will be reasons to remove the coolant - hose replacement, cylinder head off, water pump replacement, thermostat replacement, etc.
If I had a car that suffered from inherent cooling problems, such as an E-Type, then I would consider it. It would allow me to keep the car's cooling system original.
This is from the Evans website Evans FAQ.
Don't forget, your coolant system is 8.5 litres, so you will need two bottles of each, though once it has been flushed there should be no need to do it again.
Vintage and Classic seem to be for cast iron engines and Power Cool is for aluminium engines.
Unless you have cooling problems, I would stick to conventional (regularly changed) ethylene glycol-based coolant/water mix, as the cost is 4x that of a regular coolant change for no significant gain.
It is NOT for life, as there will be reasons to remove the coolant - hose replacement, cylinder head off, water pump replacement, thermostat replacement, etc.
If I had a car that suffered from inherent cooling problems, such as an E-Type, then I would consider it. It would allow me to keep the car's cooling system original.
Pingu
Re: Waterless coolant
If not the waterless coolant what is the best stuff to replace the coolant with? Also is it a 50/50 mix? Water - coolant
///M Roadster - Evolve Stage 3
- Southernboy
- Joined: Thu 07 Oct, 2010 12:39
- Posts: 6436
- Location: Johannesburg
Re: Waterless coolant
I have to ask....if Jay Leno has been using this stuff for the past 16 yrs, why isn't it an industry / manufacturer standard in the production of vehicles ?
I must admit, I read the tech specs, and it makes good sense to go with Evans. I would add it would be critical to keep an eye on rubber hoses from a cost of re-fill perspective.
I especially like the non corrosive and "zero" pressure aspects...makes for increased HP and less stress on so many parts and joints / couplings in a motor.
Very sensible....I would be interested to see a "before & after" dyno test result.
I must admit, I read the tech specs, and it makes good sense to go with Evans. I would add it would be critical to keep an eye on rubber hoses from a cost of re-fill perspective.
I especially like the non corrosive and "zero" pressure aspects...makes for increased HP and less stress on so many parts and joints / couplings in a motor.
Very sensible....I would be interested to see a "before & after" dyno test result.
-
- Joined: Fri 19 Jun, 2009 10:27
- Posts: 2092
- Location: Daglan, France
Re: Waterless coolant
The biggest problem in normal coolant is to mix it up with normal tap water - unless you live in a very soft water area, such as Plymouth.
I always use de-mineralised water, as for steam irons etc, to eliminate lime scale and other problems.
I always use de-mineralised water, as for steam irons etc, to eliminate lime scale and other problems.
A Z3 is not just for Christmas - it's for life!
-
- Joined: Mon 11 Jun, 2012 21:06
- Posts: 487
- Location: Wirral
Re: Waterless coolant
[quote="Southernboy"]I have to ask....if Jay Leno has been using this stuff for the past 16 yrs, why isn't it an industry / manufacturer standard in the production of vehicles ?
quote]
I used to work in a spark plug factory that supplied various car manufactures as OEM equipment.All the tooling was supplied at pretty much cost.This is almost an industry standard.Why? Because the profit is made from the aftermarket sales.A Supplier will only supply as OEM if they believe the aftermarket will provide the profit.This also explains why the cost of parts far exceeds the cost of a new car.OEM Suppliers don't make profit from new cars,that's the Business Model.
quote]
I used to work in a spark plug factory that supplied various car manufactures as OEM equipment.All the tooling was supplied at pretty much cost.This is almost an industry standard.Why? Because the profit is made from the aftermarket sales.A Supplier will only supply as OEM if they believe the aftermarket will provide the profit.This also explains why the cost of parts far exceeds the cost of a new car.OEM Suppliers don't make profit from new cars,that's the Business Model.
- Southernboy
- Joined: Thu 07 Oct, 2010 12:39
- Posts: 6436
- Location: Johannesburg
Re: Waterless coolant
Go Mike!! does that mean all the bottled water we drink is killing us!!
-
- Joined: Fri 19 Jun, 2009 10:27
- Posts: 2092
- Location: Daglan, France
Re: Waterless coolant
Our bodies tolerate - and even require - a less pure water than do our engines.
There is no magic about waterless coolants - during WW2 pure glycol was the coolant of choice for aero angines such as the Rolls Royce Merlin and Napier Sabre, due to its ability to operate at a higher temperature.
The website does not give any information about the consituents of this miracle coolant, or its heat absorbtion and transfer rates compared to water - I wonder why?
There is no magic about waterless coolants - during WW2 pure glycol was the coolant of choice for aero angines such as the Rolls Royce Merlin and Napier Sabre, due to its ability to operate at a higher temperature.
The website does not give any information about the consituents of this miracle coolant, or its heat absorbtion and transfer rates compared to water - I wonder why?
A Z3 is not just for Christmas - it's for life!
Re: Waterless coolant
Southernboy wrote:Go Mike!! does that mean all the bottled water we drink is killing us!!
I had to look back and re-read Mike's comment, I didn't recall him mentioning or even hinting at biological health ramifications, not unless you consider your internals working under the same conditions as a steam iron - though, epidemiological studies have shown that if you live in a hard water area and drink lots of water, you may be a candidate for kidney problems and atherosclerosis later in life (not that much later).
The use of distilled water in cooling systems has been the common sense advice since the dawn of the internal combustion engine though in the last 20 years or so, rust inhibitors have become commonly used, as have a myriad of other 'management' systems effectively divorcing the average driver from the thought of the actual functioning of things mechanical (and probably yet another reason we have difficulty in the UK in getting youngsters to consider engineering as a career). Joe Average now neither knows nor cares much about what goes on under the skin of their cars, consequently if garages didn't do it then fluids would never get looked at and some engines can end up in an awful state, particularly if hard water is put into the cooling systems - leading to partial or full blockages - radiators come to mind, overheating, valve damage etc..
I could go on (and on and on and on....) but I don't want to be seen as an 'old fart'
John Walker
Baarn, Holland
_____________________________________________________________________
The Zed | 2.8 | Topaz Blue | Z4 alloys |97K
Baarn, Holland
_____________________________________________________________________
The Zed | 2.8 | Topaz Blue | Z4 alloys |97K
- Southernboy
- Joined: Thu 07 Oct, 2010 12:39
- Posts: 6436
- Location: Johannesburg
Re: Waterless coolant
I think I'll stop with the water in the Scotch from now...Kidney disease sounds unwanted....
Re: Waterless coolant
even better most of Scotland is a soft water area for drinking water ..... so you all should come up here to fill your radiators alongside your belliesSouthernboy wrote:I think I'll stop with the water in the Scotch from now...Kidney disease sounds unwanted....
i like the idea of the system . if its not under and pressure wouldn't the rubber hoses last longer
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- Joined: Fri 19 Jun, 2009 10:27
- Posts: 2092
- Location: Daglan, France
Re: Waterless coolant
It would be difficult to prevent presurrisation, as it is due to the expansion of the coolant! Pressurisation enables the boiling point of the coolant to be raised, so reducing the risk of boiling, and also enabling the radiator to be more efficient in shedding heat to the incoming air.
Probably the first engine with a pressurised cooling system was the Rolls-Royce Kestrel of the 1920's, in order to reduce the size of the radiator, and therefore reduce its aerodynamic drag.
Probably the first engine with a pressurised cooling system was the Rolls-Royce Kestrel of the 1920's, in order to reduce the size of the radiator, and therefore reduce its aerodynamic drag.
A Z3 is not just for Christmas - it's for life!
Re: Waterless coolant
Ahh great, thanks mate..Zedonist wrote:Liam, I would buy the Coolant from BMW ready mixed (glycol based), the recommendation is a change every 3 years
///M Roadster - Evolve Stage 3
Re: Waterless coolant
I thought the recommended coolant change along with brake fluid is every two years for the Z3?
Tim.
Tim.
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- Joined: Fri 19 Jun, 2009 10:27
- Posts: 2092
- Location: Daglan, France
Re: Waterless coolant
Buying coolant ready-mixed means that you are paying BMW prices for water, and then paying VAT on the water . . .
A Z3 is not just for Christmas - it's for life!
Re: Waterless coolant
I've just been to the National car restoration show at Stoneleigh in Warwickshire and the company making the waterless coolant so had a chat to the people. Does sound interesting about £90 for the coolant and £35 for the flush liquid you use first.
Never need to change coolant, unless you have a leak, and boils at 180 deg C so system does not get pressurised. Just been supplying to museums as the cars are not used often.
Does sound an interesting material as antifreeze has to be changed 2 to 3 years and then disposed of.
They are at the Classic car show at the NEC in November so those of you who are going can see for themselves.
Brian
Never need to change coolant, unless you have a leak, and boils at 180 deg C so system does not get pressurised. Just been supplying to museums as the cars are not used often.
Does sound an interesting material as antifreeze has to be changed 2 to 3 years and then disposed of.
They are at the Classic car show at the NEC in November so those of you who are going can see for themselves.
Brian
Brian
3.0I Topaz Blue
2000 E36/7 Z3 3.0i
2016 F31 335d
2015 F21 118i
3.0I Topaz Blue
2000 E36/7 Z3 3.0i
2016 F31 335d
2015 F21 118i