Condensation in Boot

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Vic-Z3
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Condensation in Boot

Post by Vic-Z3 » Thu 20 Dec, 2012 21:11

Help ............................. :(

I have never seen so much condensation on the underside of any boot on any car
I have ever owned.
It is :oops: embarrassing me when I open it.
Must post a pic on this soon.

What the hell is going on ........................... :head:
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tangomachine
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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by tangomachine » Thu 20 Dec, 2012 21:25

I would guess it's your third brake light. mine had this if you look around the forum it's a well documented problem. I cured it by buying a new gasket from the main dealers for a fiver. unless of course it's already been bodged and another part is broken

Gareth 161
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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by Gareth 161 » Thu 20 Dec, 2012 23:24

Had the same problem & was the third brakelight.Check the battery tray as mind had an inch of water in it & as a temporary fix, a small hole was drilled to let it drain out.
Bought new gasket for a £3.50 posted from Ocean BMW in Penryn Cornwall and fitted with a little silicon to seal as it is a poor design overall.
Also took advice from previous forum articles and used a hot air gun on low setting to bend plastic tags inwards as initially they would not grip.
All dry now so must fill in that hole in battery tray!!!
Also changed the ariel grommet as a precaution but that was not the source of the leak.I park facing downhill and after it rained a pool of water formed by the light & when you opened the boot, you could see it running in.
Hope this helps
2001 3.0 Z3, 2008 Subaru Forester Xten

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sirius-c
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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by sirius-c » Fri 21 Dec, 2012 12:19

I replaced the third brake light gasket which made it worse, The new gasket from the stealership was rather like a big O-ring with curved edges, the one I took off had flat surfaces, so the new one was letting more water in when I lifted the lid if it had been raining, pooled water on the lid would run down towards the brake light and straight into the boot, I reckon this is because the new O-ring was not compressed tight enough because of how the brake light clips against the boot lid and doesn't screw up against it!

Anyhow i ran a bead of black silicone on the outside of the brake light all the way around where it met the boot lid, then ran a wet finger over it to push the silicone in and take up the excess, its a very messy job but its worked a treat,

But unfortunately this did not cure my condensation problem, so i checked the battery well,' there was no water in there, just bits of sand!?
However, on the other side of the boot in front of the roof motor there was about 2 inch of water there! directly over the backbox area too i Might add, no wonder there was a condensation problem......
turns out the Arial grommet underneath the wing (looks a bit like a gear gaiter) wasn't fitted properly and the external arial grommet was a little worse for wear, so i purchased a grommet set from the stealership , this comprises of the external Arial grommet and one that fixes underneath inside the boot (gear gaiter). I had to remove the roof motor and Arial assembly for access.... Problem solved, I think.

Number 4 & 5...see below:-
http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?mod ... fg=30&hl=7
1997 2.8L Z3 Roadster

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BladeRunner919
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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by BladeRunner919 » Fri 21 Dec, 2012 19:43

sirius-c wrote:I replaced the third brake light gasket which made it worse, The new gasket from the stealership was rather like a big O-ring with curved edges, the one I took off had flat surfaces, so the new one was letting more water in when I lifted the lid if it had been raining, pooled water on the lid would run down towards the brake light and straight into the boot, I reckon this is because the new O-ring was not compressed tight enough because of how the brake light clips against the boot lid and doesn't screw up against it!
The old one was flat because it was old and compressed. The new one is how it should have been. They do seal perfectly if you can get the pieces of the light to click together properly, which is incredibly hard to do.

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Southernboy
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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by Southernboy » Sat 22 Dec, 2012 15:59

The new gaskets are round...they become flat under pressure when the parts are fully clipped together....you have to be firm with it, and as said previously, it's not easy. If you have a careful look at the red lens surface where the gasket fite, you will see it is ribbed...that should hold the rubber gasket in place when you clip the lens to the bulb holder. Using silicone isn't the best as the rubber gasket will tend to slip off that ribbed surface, and the leak will be worse....
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chris1984_99_99
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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by chris1984_99_99 » Tue 08 Jan, 2013 14:46

Seems this is a very common problem alright. Ive been having a lot of bother with my car and it seems to be centered in this area. Water getting into and lying where the tilt sensor is. Also the 3rd light in, the running tail light is out, I replaced the bulb but to no effect. Does anyone have any idea why this might be? Ive dried out the boot a few times but still when I open it there is water on the inside of the boot lid. Surely it cant all be getting in through the 3rd light? Looking at it, that area actually seems to be pretty dry, but something has gone as it used to be bone dry in there! Any advice would be much appreciated, especially on why changeing the light didnt help! Thanks!
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Brian H
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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by Brian H » Tue 08 Jan, 2013 15:15

chris1984_99_99 wrote:Any advice would be much appreciated, especially on why changeing the light didnt help! Thanks!
Have you checked your boot wiring loom in regards to the light failure? These are prone to failing. Titan tim recently bought a replacement kit and had it fitted but others have pathched the exiting one up. I try and find a thread or two for you.

Edit: Here is one in the knowledge-base http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopi ... 18&t=34807 and another http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopi ... om#p335780

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BladeRunner919
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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by BladeRunner919 » Tue 08 Jan, 2013 17:01

chris1984_99_99 wrote:Seems this is a very common problem alright. Ive been having a lot of bother with my car and it seems to be centered in this area. Water getting into and lying where the tilt sensor is. Also the 3rd light in, the running tail light is out, I replaced the bulb but to no effect. Does anyone have any idea why this might be? Ive dried out the boot a few times but still when I open it there is water on the inside of the boot lid. Surely it cant all be getting in through the 3rd light? Looking at it, that area actually seems to be pretty dry, but something has gone as it used to be bone dry in there! Any advice would be much appreciated, especially on why changeing the light didnt help! Thanks!
3rd brake light and antenna are the main likely culprits - you'd be amazed how much water can get in through the brake light.
I'm not sure which light isn't working - is it one of the small bulbs in the 3rd brake light array or something in the main light cluster?

amancuso
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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by amancuso » Tue 08 Jan, 2013 22:06

Do your other running lights on that side work? If not check the fuse. L/R are on different circuits...
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stussy
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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by stussy » Wed 09 Jan, 2013 20:18

How is the car parked up? Level or nose up or down ?
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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by Vic-Z3 » Tue 15 Jan, 2013 18:07

I park Nose Down whilst on the Driveway at home. Then just as it gets parked elsewhere, flat or nose up.

Take a look at the pics from my boot .................... :arrow:
http://s33.photobucket.com/albums/d52/v ... 20Z3/Boot/

1-1/2" of water in the Battery Compartment and about 1/4" in the Black Box area.
Other from that it was fairly Bone Dry apart from Condensation.
I will take a pic of the Condensation on the underside of the boot lid next time it gets bad.

Now I need to remove Battery and see what is under there.
What Terminal Should I remove First, Live or Earth :?:
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stussy
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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by stussy » Tue 15 Jan, 2013 19:01

Mine was the same , my parcel shelf inside the cabin was wet too, my n/s footwell was full of water and bust all my dsc sensors , I was parking my car nose up on my drive way when I put hardtop on it was fine, parked it nose down or level without hardtop all fine. The only thing I can think that was wrong with mine is that the drain holes near the seat belts must of been higher than the water gutter under the rear so the rain water must have been coming over the gutter.
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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by Vic-Z3 » Tue 15 Jan, 2013 20:48

Found this .............................. :arrow:

Image

Image

That rectangular hole seems to sit near or directly over the area to the right of the CdChanger.

Which in turn might tie in with the water mark on the upper carpet.......


Image

I will investigate more ................................ :|
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stussy
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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by stussy » Tue 15 Jan, 2013 20:54

Has the black carpet on the rear shelf gone white? Mine did.
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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by Vic-Z3 » Tue 15 Jan, 2013 21:23

Dont appear to be leaking into the passenger area, well not since I proofed the roof with three coats of Fabsil.
Prior to the coatings I had around an 1" of water in both the foot wells, had to take the bungs out and let it drain
for a couple of days, whilst driving it round. The carpets were sodden only noticed when I got the hoover out to
clean it and toof out the fitted mats............................ Yuk.

I am in the market for a 12v dehumidifier, I was even thinking of installing it semi permanent so it used one of
the drain holes behind the seats..........
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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by Vic-Z3 » Wed 16 Jan, 2013 20:39

Condensation after a day .............................. :arrow:

Image

Imagine that after a week ........................ :cry:

No rain at all on this, just warm inside and cold outside.
I have wiped it off again.
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chris1984_99_99
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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by chris1984_99_99 » Thu 17 Jan, 2013 16:10

I left the car in with a local garage to let them have a look at it, and to sort out the lights and alarms, which seem to have developed faults on the back on the condensation problems. Turns out it was literally just a few fuses gone for the lights as I suspected. As for the alarm, the tilt sensor was a write off due to water damage, but it can actually just be removed and the car can still be alarmed, just without the tilt function, which I am more than happy with as its 1 less thing to go wrong in the future.

As for the water, it turns out it was getting into the boot through the aerial. At some point some ejit has replaced the aerial in the car and didnt install a BMW one or install the one they did in a very watertight way. The garage literally stripped the boot out and put one of their smallest apprentices in there with a torch to see where the water was coming in!! A bit drastic but apparently the water was just flowing in through there, so new part ordered and aerial removed and sealed up in the meantime, and so far....no dampness!
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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by Vic-Z3 » Thu 17 Jan, 2013 21:43

I have poured water continuously via hose on a steady stream for 10mins just over the Aerial Grommet area ...................... Nada nought no water in boot.

It is the 1-1/2" I had in the Battery Well that is disconcerting.
I will try 10mins on the Middle Light area next...........

Then I guess both the rear lights.
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colb
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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by colb » Fri 18 Jan, 2013 21:19

Re the condensation, how about putting some self adhesive sound deadening material on the recessed parts of the boot lid to prevent it forming on the cold metal. You should be able to cut it to the shapes of the recesses to make it look tidy.

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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by Vic-Z3 » Sat 19 Jan, 2013 17:58

how about putting some self adhesive sound deadening material on the recessed parts of the boot lid to prevent it forming on the cold metal
Yep, had that thought myself. Then I thought it would only be masking an underlying problem.
I have removed all the carpets and tool tray and am keeping an eye on it as best I can.
If it wasn't snowing out and 6" deep, I would be out with my hose trying to find leaks ........ :(

Still I have all the time in the world to get to the root of this and I will.
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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by Vic-Z3 » Sun 27 Jan, 2013 11:34

Update:

Well the snow has finally gone ...................... :D

So this morning I was up with the larks, ok 9.00am and straight out onto the car, well ok I did have toast and tea....... :)

Hose out and had it running on the Boot area for 10mins or so ............. see pics :arrow:
http://s33.photobucket.com/albums/d52/v ... Part%2002/

The upshot of this was ............................ Nothing. Not a drip of water anywhere.
As the pics show, I let the hose try it worst in all the usual area's: Third Light, Rear Lights, Aerial grommet, Roof, Drainage Holes and Boot Seal.

I am at a total loss now, all I can do is run the car with all the Boot Carpets out for a while and let the weather do it's worst, whilst keeping
an eye on all of it.

I will of course keep the forum and those interested in the results or lack there of ................. :head:
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Southernboy
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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by Southernboy » Sun 27 Jan, 2013 15:08

One more hose test, Hit the car from the side at the back between the front window and the rear window. There is the opportunity for water to be going in as it runs down the soft top and into the areas just aft of the main windows. There are meant to be drains there, and it is possible they are blocked and the water is then flooding along the channel under and behind the rear window and into the boot. You will need to hose from both sides and from front towards the back and also from back towards the front. I would do a check after hosing one side before hosing the opposite side.
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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by Vic-Z3 » Sun 27 Jan, 2013 18:06

I have located where the water is entering the boot .................... :arrow:

Image

From the holes along the top follow the pressed steel panel down and around the bend.
Just after the second bend there is Ledge and the water has been sitting on there until the car is driven away
off the slope of my driveway.
So on the flat the water must be coming in from around the Roof or the holes along that top edge...... :arrow:
Image

The same Pressed Steel shape can be seen from inside on the picture above.
Next step is to remove the carpet from behind the seats and take a long hard look under there.
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Brian H
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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by Brian H » Sun 27 Jan, 2013 21:17

Has the car ever had its roof replaced? There is a sealing strip which runs around the rear of the hood (At the top of the carpet).

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Southernboy
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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by Southernboy » Sun 27 Jan, 2013 22:00

Looking at the pictures, it seems as if the roof seal strip hasn't been replaced !! If that is the case, well it will always leak.
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BladeRunner919
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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by BladeRunner919 » Mon 28 Jan, 2013 16:18

I can't even work out where the roof is in the pictures.

Vic-Z3
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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by Vic-Z3 » Mon 28 Jan, 2013 18:11

Top pic shows the top bulk head inside of my boot with carpet removed.
The bot pics is showing the inside of a car with the roof removed and whats left of the bitumen sealent.
Note the shape of the pressed steel fabrication....... Is it single skinned? Not sure will check once my rear
deck carpet is out.
Still we are getting there ................What is required now is some flowable bitumen sealent once I get my
head round the way the Hood/Roof is fitted.
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BladeRunner919
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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by BladeRunner919 » Mon 28 Jan, 2013 18:40

It is single skinned, if that helps.

Brian4
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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by Brian4 » Mon 28 Jan, 2013 20:38

I've got a similar leak on ours. When I pour water into the 'gutter' around the boot it drains where the wing meets the boot panels. There is a gap there and the water runs into the wheelarch and out only some of it finds it's way into the panel that the boot carpet is fixed to and there is a small hole in the corner that water drips out of runs down the inside of the wheelarch and collects under the alarm module. I've removed the drain plug under the module at the moment so water cannot pool there.

I considered filling the area that the water comes out of with expanding foam but I will do some more investigation.

Pour water here
Image

And a small amount runs out here.
Image


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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by Vic-Z3 » Mon 28 Jan, 2013 22:01

Now on mine that side of the channel just fills with water the other side does not....... :|
I did however have a very small amount of water in each well inside the boot.
I will take a closer look at my own and report findings.
Almost looks like a nick in the metal on yours, I will look at mine....
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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by Vic-Z3 » Tue 29 Jan, 2013 18:30

I have had a look and I have exactly the same nick in the metal.
There is no evidence of any water ingress at that point at all.
Yours has a tiny problem and if you can get a look behind there using a
"mirror on a stick" (official name not) a dab of silicon in the right area
may just cure that.
Well it just rained all day here so no progress made on mine ........ Oh well.
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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by Vic-Z3 » Wed 30 Jan, 2013 20:42

I am thinking ....................... :arrow:

http://www.captaintolley.com/lang/englc.html

This maybe, just maybe the answer ............. over to you guys for typed thoughts ....... :idea:
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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by Vic-Z3 » Sun 03 Feb, 2013 18:07

Spent at least 10mins today and pulled out the rear deck carpet ............. :arrow:

Image

I do believe we have found a slight problem ................. :arrow:
Left Side
Image
Right Side
Image
Now to the cure ..................... :?:

Oh .......... I did expect to find a Drain Hole ................ :arrow:

Image
:?:
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Southernboy
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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by Southernboy » Sun 03 Feb, 2013 18:13

Looking at the pic of the "right side" it seems the seal has dropped down from behind the bolted strip?? The left side seems okay as it should be...
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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by Vic-Z3 » Sun 03 Feb, 2013 18:28

Left side has dropped as well ........ Just not as much.
My guess is I will have to undo the bolts but not remove them then tuck the offending item
back up behind the metal strip.
I will however use some of the Crack Cure along the outer edge prior to doing the above.

It was really easy to peal back the carpet from under the hood trim, if you are suffering from water
ingress into the vehicle, might be worth a look.
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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by Vic-Z3 » Tue 05 Feb, 2013 21:45

peal back the carpet from under the hood trim
Anybody help with, where to get the Plastic Mushroom fittings as the one's I removed
both from the above and the Boot probabley could do with being replaced.....

Thanks.

Found some rubber plugs that fitted into the 7 holes at the base of the ridged rear parcel shelf.
That should help with the water ingress into the boot, however it looks like there is no sealent
where the ribbed panel stops on top of a non ridged panel so the water will still get in through
there.
I need to remove the Roll Hoops and asociated Plastics, any help here would be gratefully recieved.
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Southernboy
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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by Southernboy » Wed 06 Feb, 2013 02:51

Have a look in the Z3 KB under retro fitting roll hoops...It should tell you all you need to know about removing them.
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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by BladeRunner919 » Wed 06 Feb, 2013 08:21

Vic-Z3 wrote: however it looks like there is no sealant where the ribbed panel stops on top of a non ridged panel so the water will still get in through
there.
Do you mean under the carpet in the well that the roof sits in? If so, the lack of sealant is irrelevant - water should not be in that area at all, so doesn't need sealant.

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Southernboy
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Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by Southernboy » Wed 06 Feb, 2013 08:32

There should be sealant where the roof is fixed to the rear of the bodywork in the well where the soft top folds into. The sealany is Butyl and is in the form of a strip which starts at the extreme end just behind the main window and continues around to the opposite extrem point by the other window. Any breach of that seal will allow water to pass through into the car. Also, on the outside and along the edge of the bodywork there is a rubber trim which fits over the hard edge of the bodywork, and between the soft top and that bodywork edge. The ends of that rubber trim have a cap each which holds it in place by clipping into the recess between roof and bodywork. The small wells at those two end points should be drainable if I recall correctly. However, if the roof is fitted correctly, water shouldn't even get in there.
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ZedAintDead
Joined: Tue 12 Mar, 2013 10:12
Posts: 96

  Z3 roadster 2.2i

Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by ZedAintDead » Fri 12 Apr, 2013 09:13

I am suffering a similar problem, here's the chain of events so far.

Parked the car on the drive Sunday evening (it's sloped so she was nose up, ass down), it was raining. Made myself comfy to watch MotoGP, beer in hand!

My neighbour texted me about 20 minutes later to say my indicators were flashing, went out disarmed the alarm, checked windows doors, bonnet and boot to make sure everything was closed properly, all good.

Reset alarm and went back in inside, popped out to the kitchen 5 minutes later and the indicators were at it again. Decided to lock the car with the key taking the alarm out of the equation.

Started doing some reading here and identified the probably causes (stereo anti-theft sensor, bonnet sensor, boot sensor etc). Next few days were dry so had a good rummage about, carpet in the well where the tilt sensor sits was damp. Lifted the carpet and had a nice little pool of water in there. :cry:

Noticed the aerial grommit was badly perished so ordered a new one, fitted that yesterday evening with no hassle, thanks for the Autoglym tip! :)
Dried up the pool of water and left the car parked in the same way last night and brought the carpet in to dry out.

It rained heavily this morning so I figured this would be the test, popped the boot before I set off for work and it was dry, success! Or so I thought...

Drove to work and thought I'd check the boot again just to make sure nothing had changed, there was about 1-2cm of water in the tilt sensor well.

So, there's obviously water getting in but pooling somewhere higher up and then when the car is moved it flows out of it's temporary hideaway and settles in the well.

Thinking of dusting the wheelarch with something before going for an exploratory drive but that will have to wait until tonight or tomorrow.

There's a very very small amount of water around the bottom of the battery too but nothing in comparison to the tilt sensor well and no sign of moisture in between.

I think I should go for a new gasket on the 3rd brake light, just to be sure, any recommendations on where to get this?

Any other advice or recommendations on how to proceed?

Thanks!

User avatar
Robert T
Site Admin
Joined: Mon 12 Jun, 2006 11:35
Posts: 10014

  Z3 roadster 1.9
Location: Cheshire

Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by Robert T » Fri 12 Apr, 2013 10:34

Parking nose up may be the problem. The drain channels for the roof are at the front, just behind the door B-pillars. If you park nose up, water can collect along the rubber seal round the edge of the roof and soak through the fabric into the roof storage area and through the back wall of the boot. If you park nose down, the water will run off correctly, but it can collect in the third brakelight area, which if it is sealed properly, is hopefully less of a problem.

You need to find where the water is getting in and stop it. Check all the carpets, including the softtop box, and the upper boot trim which is physically only a few cms below it. Also check all the well areas of the boot for water and dry them out - have a look under all the carpet, under the tool tray, around the battery and under the storage cubby on the right.

Cheers R.
Arctic Silver '99 Z3 1.9 & Black '59 Frogeye 1275cc
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ZedAintDead
Joined: Tue 12 Mar, 2013 10:12
Posts: 96

  Z3 roadster 2.2i

Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by ZedAintDead » Fri 12 Apr, 2013 13:05

Thanks Robert, that's really useful information.

I'll park rear up this evening and see what happens. Obviously need to investigate anyway, getting the tool tray out of there is a good idea.

Out of curiosity I priced a clear third brake light with BMW as if this is an issue for me there is no gasket for facelift models, it's all one?

£99 and that's for a clear one... might be nice!

Need to identify the source of the leak for sure first though.

Vic-Z3
Joined: Fri 11 Jun, 2010 20:28
Posts: 915

  Z3 roadster 2.2i
Location: Redditch
Contact:

Re: Condensation in Boot

Post by Vic-Z3 » Sat 13 Apr, 2013 19:21

So, there's obviously water getting in but pooling somewhere higher up and then when the car is moved it flows out of it's temporary hideaway and settles in the well.
That is exactly the way it was going for me ........................ :(

Creeping Crack Cure was purchased and a tube was put on the end of it to aid in placement, along with the other bits I
have mentioned there has been no more leakage either into the boot area or the cabin......... :D
----------------- BMW Z3 Das Beste Auto -----------------

Mein altes Auto riecht nach Nudeln, hat dieses Auto eine Wurst Geruch.

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