Replacement Front Brakes Costing

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TitanTim
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Replacement Front Brakes Costing

Post by TitanTim » Thu 14 Mar, 2013 20:32

Hi all,

OK well last week had a bit of an unexpected breakdown lol, well not an actual breakdown but had one of the front brake calipers seize up on me :( I should have known it was coming as I noticed I was using the handbreak far less on slight inclines and the alloy was getting a tad hot. Anyways it concluded with a tinkling grinding sound but luckily by shear fate it conveniently happened a few hundreds yards from my local BMW dealer so I limped onto their car park. They booked it in straight away and the Zed was ready later in the day all sorted. I was planning on having the front discs replaced come MOT time this June so decided to have the whole lot done in one go than messing about. So for anyone looking at OEM brake parts and prices here's a breakdown of part numbers and costs;

2001 model 1.9

34.11.6.761.242 Front brake pad set 32 @ £67.50
34.35.1.181.338 Front pad sensor @ £11.68
34.11.1.165.559 Brake caliper @ £210.84
34.11.1.165.560 Brake caliper @ £210.84
34.11.6.757.750 Front brake disc set @ £46.25
Bleeding ABS brake system with ASC+T @ £10.00
Labour to fit above @ £191.00

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Tim.
Last edited by TitanTim on Thu 14 Mar, 2013 20:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Replacement Front Brakes Costing

Post by Brian H » Thu 14 Mar, 2013 20:40

Quite a bill you got there Tim but at least you know its right, do you inspect the mechanics for cleanliness before you let them loose on your car :P

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Re: Replacement Front Brakes Costing

Post by TitanTim » Thu 14 Mar, 2013 20:45

Brian H wrote:Quite a bill you got there Tim but at least you know its right, do you inspect the mechanics for cleanliness before you let them loose on your car :P
Yes the bill was a bit :shock: I didn't realise the calipers were so pricey which is what pushed the cost up :? I was thinking £60 each not £210. Out of curiosity I looked at the rears on e-bay and they vary in price from £230 to £270 each :shock: Oh well its done now, there wasn't a greasy fingerprint on the Zed after the work was done :lol:

Tim.
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Re: Replacement Front Brakes Costing

Post by Robert T » Thu 14 Mar, 2013 21:18

Brake discs were flagged up as an advisory on my MOT, so that doesn't look too painful if I replace them later in the year - I don't recall a calliper being anything like that much when I had one replaced a year or two back. I suspect the thicker end of the wedge will be sorting out the frog's engine...

Cheers R.
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Re: Replacement Front Brakes Costing

Post by Beemer Man » Thu 14 Mar, 2013 21:32

Last August I paid ~£55 exchange from a local motor factor for a fully reconditioned front caliper for my 2.8 (Girling or Lockheed, I can't remember which now).

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Re: Replacement Front Brakes Costing

Post by TitanTim » Thu 14 Mar, 2013 21:33

Robert T wrote:Brake discs were flagged up as an advisory on my MOT, so that doesn't look too painful if I replace them later in the year - I don't recall a calliper being anything like that much when I had one replaced a year or two back. I suspect the thicker end of the wedge will be sorting out the frog's engine...

Cheers R.
Same here with the rear discs which I had replaced around 2 years ago but the OEM discs are pretty cheap not to go with them. I don't understand on the calipers, used ones on e-bay are around the 40 to 60 mark, I can only find OEM new rears which are £232 :? each :shock:

Tim.
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Re: Replacement Front Brakes Costing

Post by Zed Carer » Thu 14 Mar, 2013 23:05

TitanTim wrote:Same here with the rear discs which I had replaced around 2 years ago but the OEM discs are pretty cheap not to go with them. I don't understand on the calipers, used ones on e-bay are around the 40 to 60 mark, I can only find OEM new rears which are £232 :? each :shock:

Tim.
I'd suggest having a look at the calipers and noting down the manufacturer and their part number as well as the BMW part number and then check the prices again using the manufacturers details. On the Z4 the front pads are Textar and buying using the Textar part number they were around £28 but in a BMW box they were over £60. Citroen are just as bad - I needed a new caliper a couple of years ago and the service reception (main dealer) quote was nearly £300 just for the caliper. Luckily I knew the workshop foreman quite well and he gave me the manufacturer's details so I got one for £160 and then booked it in for fitting only!
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Re: Replacement Front Brakes Costing

Post by geminimustang » Fri 15 Mar, 2013 07:26

TitanTim,my absolute respect for your attitude and the size of your wallet.Everytime,without blinking,you bite the bullet.My wallet hides in different pockets to avoid coming into the fresh air,trouser pockets,coat pockets,any pocket to avoid use.We try to keep the zed on the road at minimal cost but some of the run-of-the-mill maintenance costs i'm seeing on this forum frighten me to death.For garage work,we use two indies and a corner garage.The different prices the indies provide for the same job can be enlightening even though all three garages have the same hourly labour rate,around £55 hr.Corner garage for MOT and indies for servicing and repair.

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Re: Replacement Front Brakes Costing

Post by Badman gee » Fri 15 Mar, 2013 08:30

That was a ridiculous price just for the front brakes.
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Re: Replacement Front Brakes Costing

Post by Mike Fishwick » Fri 15 Mar, 2013 10:54

Last summer I fitted exchange (remanufactured by Borg & Beck) calipers, new Zimmermann drilled discs, EBC Redstuff pads, and new ATE fluid (all from GSF) for just under £300 - plus my labour. Wheel sensors last for ever, but are removed and cleaned every couple of years.

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Re: Replacement Front Brakes Costing

Post by TitanTim » Fri 15 Mar, 2013 11:46

Thanks for the replies all,

I posted the prices as an indication for the OEM parts to give anyone an idea of costs should they ever need to go the OEM route and to compare if anyone wanted to go the chinese repo route :lol:

I could have spend an eternity trying to find aftermarket non OEM parts but personally I would only ever use OEM parts but then thats me and not keen on remanufactured used parts. I've been there before with seized calipers on past cars trying myself and paying others to recondition them for them only to seize up again 12 months later.

BMWs labour rate I thought was not actually too bad for which I'm happy to pay. My days of sitting on a cold garage floor with a bag of spanners have past, I don't have the time or the inclination to be honest.

My only surprise was why the OEM calipers are so pricey as the rears are also over £200 a shot.

I can hear the sharp intakes of breath through gritted teeth :lol: but the way I look at is, my Zed has 25K on the clock, in virtually mind condition, have owned it 5 years for which the only costs have been 2 rear discs, 2 services and the boot wiring loom. To me thats not bad for a 13 year old car :lol: Weighing up the actual value of the Zed compared to spending money on it is immaterial due to the pleasure it gives and will continue to give over many more years when kept in fine fettle.

Oh yes there has been other costs of alloy wheels, ACS bits but then like many on here their Zed is a second hobby car which wants for nothing :wink:

Tim.
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Re: Replacement Front Brakes Costing

Post by TitanTim » Fri 15 Mar, 2013 13:30

Zedonist wrote:I am not surprised, as this is how BMW or any other OEM make money, through parts in OEM Stickered boxes, the truth is your calipers castings come from the same Chinese foundry as the after market caliper, because this is how the margin squeezed supplier make there money, on service and replacement parts, when we manufactured parts for the OEM's we had to provide service parts for the dealer at OEM production costs (low margin) and always had the tie up with the after sales reseller at a higher margin, but they dont put on the massive markup that the dealer does.

You have to remember the biggest part of any manufacturing process other than material, is your first of a kind costs, and these are you usually tooling, dies etc, which due to the nature of the size of the cost get amortised over the million or so components made. Therefore due to these first of a kind costs it is very unlikely that another factory will gear up to make after sales parts for which he will perhaps only sell between 100's and 1000's it is just not cost effective, it will usually be the same factory with own branded boxes and as most OEMs make the same models in various worldwide destinations you will always have two or three suppliers providing the same parts. So you benefit from a quality controlled product at a cheaper price.

What i would steer clear of, is re-manufactured parts as the reworking companies in the main are not quality assured.
.

Possibly but as you say so long as its a quality assured part approved by BMW that's all I'm bothered about plus the work is warranted so I'm a happy Zedder. If I crash and loose all my front teeth I can sue BMW
than the fly by night e-bay seller :wink:

Tim.
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Re: Replacement Front Brakes Costing

Post by g8jka » Fri 15 Mar, 2013 14:38

Mike Fishwick wrote:Last summer I fitted exchange (remanufactured by Borg & Beck) calipers
Zedonist wrote:What i would steer clear of, is re-manufactured parts as the reworking companies in the main are not quality assured
Ouch, wait until Mike sees that :shock: :wink:
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Re: Replacement Front Brakes Costing

Post by Mike Fishwick » Fri 15 Mar, 2013 14:54

I don't know about the Chinese, but my calipers have 'ATE' cast into them, have standard size pistons, and look just like the originals did. I would not mind guessing that they are like the originals, but are sold as 'Remanufactured' to permit a lower price.

I have used Zimmermann drilled discs for more years than I care to remember, and find they last for about 2 sets of pads - about 100,000 miles in rural France, where, as we are free from speed bumps, traffic lights, and mini roundabouts, the brakes are not used as regularly as in the UK.

I find the Redstuff pads give better response than the OEM or Greenstuff pads did, and generate a lot less of the corrosive and adhesive dust, so they get my vote too.

I'm happy, and don't think the is anything sub-standard about my brakes, but if people want to keep everything 'original' they are welcome to do so, as it keeps the BMW parts system working well for my occasional convenience!
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Re: Replacement Front Brakes Costing

Post by TitanTim » Fri 15 Mar, 2013 15:11

Your brakes look great Mike, I'm more than happy sticking with OEM parts as prefer to keep the Zed mechanically original. I guess the temptation with older cars is to skimp and fit cheap parts which I can understand if the car is getting past it and not worth the expense.

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Re: Replacement Front Brakes Costing

Post by siwilson » Fri 15 Mar, 2013 15:18

ATE is the OEM, so they are the same, just sold under their own brand as opposed to having a BMW badge on them.

Remanufactured could mean what you say, but I suspect if they are sold as refurbished then they have been refurbished. Absolutely no issue with this. After all, the casting won't wear. Replace the piston, bleed nipple and rubbers and they're good as new. In fact I refurbished the fronts mine a while back using OEM parts. now they are good as new.

If a part is OEM then it means it was made by the Original Equipment Manufacturer. Almost certainly using the same tooling. I purchase some lemforder control arms for my E39 a while back and you can se where the BMW logo has been ground off after casting. Exact same part, half the price.
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Re: Replacement Front Brakes Costing

Post by Badman gee » Fri 15 Mar, 2013 16:11

Oem parts are fine, but can be expensive. Fine if you don't mind the fact that it adds little or no value to the car upon resale.

I agree with Tim however in keeping the car standard.

Not many standard ones about now, most have been modded.
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Re: Replacement Front Brakes Costing

Post by TitanTim » Fri 15 Mar, 2013 16:18

Badman gee wrote:Oem parts are fine, but can be expensive. Fine if you don't mind the fact that it adds little or no value to the car upon resale.

I agree with Tim however in keeping the car standard.

Not many standard ones about now, most have been modded.
Yes expensive for what you get, and like you say won't add value to the car but would increase its saleability as shows money has been spent when needed.

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Re: Replacement Front Brakes Costing

Post by Badman gee » Fri 15 Mar, 2013 16:20

Tim, you will have no problems selling your cars.

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Re: Replacement Front Brakes Costing

Post by TitanTim » Fri 15 Mar, 2013 16:35

Badman gee wrote:Tim, you will have no problems selling your cars.

Top condition!
But I think thats the problem, I sometimes wonder whether is worth lavishing all the care and attention and spending money etc as you never really get back money wise what you would hope :? All cars are a moneypit :cry:

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Re: Replacement Front Brakes Costing

Post by Badman gee » Fri 15 Mar, 2013 16:37

TitanTim wrote:
Badman gee wrote:Tim, you will have no problems selling your cars.

Top condition!
But I think thats the problem, I sometimes wonder whether is worth lavishing all the care and attention and spending money etc as you never really get back money wise what you would hope :? All cars are a moneypit :cry:

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Re: Replacement Front Brakes Costing

Post by TitanTim » Fri 15 Mar, 2013 16:47

Badman gee wrote:
TitanTim wrote:
Badman gee wrote:Tim, you will have no problems selling your cars.

Top condition!
But I think thats the problem, I sometimes wonder whether is worth lavishing all the care and attention and spending money etc as you never really get back money wise what you would hope :? All cars are a moneypit :cry:

Tim.
It's worth it if you keep it forever.
I'm still browsing the M classifieds but keep telling myself no :head:

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Re: Replacement Front Brakes Costing

Post by gookah » Fri 15 Mar, 2013 17:25

I appreciate the BMW route, but that is probably over a 1/3 of the value of your car on front brakes.
If you think of it this way, if it needed brakes all round, for similar damage an insurance company would write it off.

I googled euro-carparts and for their versions would have cost £210 in parts with the current discount.
Not standard BMW parts, but then neither are your wheels..... :D
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Re: Replacement Front Brakes Costing

Post by TitanTim » Fri 15 Mar, 2013 17:28

gookah wrote:I appreciate the BMW route, but that is probably over a 1/3 of the value of your car on front brakes.
If you think of it this way, if it needed brakes all round, for similar damage an insurance company would write it off.

I googled euro-carparts and for their versions would have cost £210 in parts with the current discount.
Not standard BMW parts, but then neither are your wheels..... :D
But the euro-carparts stuff is German not Chinese, thats no good to me :D

Tim.
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Re: Replacement Front Brakes Costing

Post by gookah » Fri 15 Mar, 2013 17:43

TitanTim wrote:
gookah wrote:I appreciate the BMW route, but that is probably over a 1/3 of the value of your car on front brakes.
If you think of it this way, if it needed brakes all round, for similar damage an insurance company would write it off.

I googled euro-carparts and for their versions would have cost £210 in parts with the current discount.
Not standard BMW parts, but then neither are your wheels..... :D
But the euro-carparts stuff is German not Chinese, thats no good to me :D

Tim.

nope, wouldnt want that... over engineered additional weight. :D
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Re: Replacement Front Brakes Costing

Post by Del » Fri 15 Mar, 2013 19:02

All I can say is thanks for sharing the private details of your car expenditure with us Tim and it’s a good job you haven’t got one of those extravagant Z3Ms as it would probably then have cost twice as much. :D

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Re: Replacement Front Brakes Costing

Post by TitanTim » Fri 15 Mar, 2013 19:18

Del wrote:All I can say is thanks for sharing the private details of your car expenditure with us Tim and it’s a good job you haven’t got one of those extravagant Z3Ms as it would probably then have cost twice as much. :D
Yepp I feel sorry for all those M owners who will be quickly selling on when a lightbulb blows :D

Should have stuck with the bargain model :wink:

Tim.
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Re: Replacement Front Brakes Costing

Post by dallantan » Sat 16 Mar, 2013 06:47

Buy aftermarket.

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Re: Replacement Front Brakes Costing

Post by Brian4 » Sat 16 Mar, 2013 10:29

Why not go down the route of a replacement seal kit and brake fluid replacement. As we used to do with the old drum brakes?

There are very few parts in a caliper and rubber seals degrade in time in fluid and brake fluid absorbs water so this is probably the cause of sticking seized calipers. Just started pricing the bits up and two rear brake pipes that were an advisory on last MOT so will see how I get on with a full refurb. Normal maintenance.
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Re: Replacement Front Brakes Costing

Post by TitanTim » Sat 16 Mar, 2013 10:46

Brian4 wrote:Why not go down the route of a replacement seal kit and brake fluid replacement. As we used to do with the old drum brakes?

There are very few parts in a caliper and rubber seals degrade in time in fluid and brake fluid absorbs water so this is probably the cause of sticking seized calipers. Just started pricing the bits up and two rear brake pipes that were an advisory on last MOT so will see how I get on with a full refurb. Normal maintenance.
Seized calipers can be a bit of an archilles heel on the E36, well know problem from what I've heard. I imagine the caliper seized for a number of reasons, lack of use, the Zed has been stored the last 4 winters and used only during the summer, this and then using it this winter its probably got gummed up with salt and rubbish etc. I think its actually been seized for quite some time but not enough to cause any problems, I've noticed for some time the one wheel always had excessive brake dust. Like you say calipers are fairly simple in make up but I decided to go the replacement route as the discs needed replacing anyways.

Tim.
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Re: Replacement Front Brakes Costing

Post by Brian4 » Sat 16 Mar, 2013 11:07

Hi Tim I wasn't' commenting either way on your decision to replace calipers and I understand your reason for 'not sitting on a cold garage floor' but I was only adding my thoughts on preventative maintenance as you say a few here have had seized calipers and it got me thinking.

I doubt if our brake fluid has been changed in the last 3 years and the car doesn't get used a great deal so sitting with damp brake fluid causes corrosion.

I still quite enjoy caring for the cars and probably get as much satisfaction from maintaining the car as I do driving it.

I do think this forum and others for BMW are very helpful and full of information for repairs which don't involve visits to garages if the owner is willing and able to do the repairs
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Re: Replacement Front Brakes Costing

Post by TitanTim » Sat 16 Mar, 2013 11:24

Brian4 wrote:Hi Tim I wasn't' commenting either way on your decision to replace calipers and I understand your reason for 'not sitting on a cold garage floor' but I was only adding my thoughts on preventative maintenance as you say a few here have had seized calipers and it got me thinking.

I doubt if our brake fluid has been changed in the last 3 years and the car doesn't get used a great deal so sitting with damp brake fluid causes corrosion.

I still quite enjoy caring for the cars and probably get as much satisfaction from maintaining the car as I do driving it.

I do think this forum and others for BMW are very helpful and full of information for repairs which don't involve visits to garages if the owner is willing and able to do the repairs
I completely agree Brian, if you can do these jobs yourself it saves the pennies but I'm unsure over the long term how successful freeing up seized calipers can be as the ones I've done it the past and had a garage do them a few times on an old Mazda they tended to seize again after a short while. I get the brake fluid changed every 2 years on the Zed along with the antifreeze as recommended so will be due for renew time in the summer :lol:

Tim.
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