transmission oil changes.

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john plimmer
Joined: Sun 09 Dec, 2012 17:01
Posts: 6

  Z3 roadster 1.9i

transmission oil changes.

Post by john plimmer »

What is the current thinking on changing the oil in the gearbox and rear diff.? My Z is 11years old and has done 63000 miles. I am told that BMW say the oil is for life and is in any case a very specific oil in the gearbox which will cause problems if departed from.
Frank.A
Joined: Mon 20 Jul, 2009 21:15
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  Z3 roadster 2.8
Location: Twixt York and Hull

Re: transmission oil changes.

Post by Frank.A »

Time for a change.Changing the gearbox oil should result in improved gear selection.Details in the knowledge base.

http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopi ... il#p171341
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john plimmer
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  Z3 roadster 1.9i

Re: transmission oil changes.

Post by john plimmer »

Thanks Frank-noted
Vic-Z3
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Location: Redditch
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Re: transmission oil changes.

Post by Vic-Z3 »

Ah ha ......................... I am liking this .............. Recommend some oil chaps.... :)
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OldskoolRS
Joined: Mon 06 Feb, 2012 14:23
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  Z3 roadster 3.0i
Location: Wokingham

Re: transmission oil changes.

Post by OldskoolRS »

My gear change was very stiff when I first got my Z3 last year at 62,000 miles. I found the correct replacement oil (there was a coloured label on my gearbox which I needed to check first). I'm pretty sure it came from Fuchs. It was a fraction of the price of the same oil from BMW. It helped the change too, though it is still a bit stiff when really cold, it was worth the effort. This year I'm going to change the diff oil just as a precaution since it doesn't need much, so isn't an expensive job (though slightly messy of course).
Del
Joined: Sat 19 Nov, 2011 18:35
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: transmission oil changes.

Post by Del »

Definitely worth doing, I did mine and the stuff that came out was black and nasty. When BMW talk about a “lifetime” fill they were probably referring to the legal car-world definition of “lifetime” which would be their commercially offered warranty period or the period that might reasonably be considered as their warranty obligation (sorry career spent studying case small print) but not really 10+ years.
Jonco
Joined: Sat 04 Jun, 2011 07:24
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  Z3 roadster 1.9
Location: Cheshire

Re: transmission oil changes.

Post by Jonco »

Vic-Z3 wrote:Ah ha ......................... I am liking this .............. Recommend some oil chaps.... :)
I have recently copied this in another thread but this is an extract from a query to Opie oils ( I have no business connection except customer - they are just very helpful)
This query was for a 98 1.9 Z3 - without limited slip diff.

`The diff takes a 75w-90


http://www.opieoils.co.uk/c-673-75w-90- ... fluid.aspx


The Fuchs Syn 5, Millers CRX, Redline 75w-90 GL5, Motul Gear 300 and Gulf Competition are ideal for the diff. The Fuchs Sintopoid, Castrol Syntrax Longlife, Millers TRX, Motul Motylgear, Mobil SHC and Amsoil FGR are also good choices.'


The recommend oil tool on their website has been problematical if still so just drop them an email with your car details.

Would suggest you have a look at condition of fill and drain plugs on diff before you start. Mine were a bit corroded so I bought 2 new plugs and 2 aluminium crush washers for less than a tenner. Only time I have felt I was not being mugged by a dealer. Thought I'd push my luck and asked how much the oil was `£38 a litre, sir' - back to reality and Opie.
Z3cade
Joined: Sat 09 Jan, 2010 18:18
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  M roadster S50
Location: Peterborough

Re: transmission oil changes.

Post by Z3cade »

Yes you need to find out what colour sticker is on your gearbox.. Will give you a code to for the correct oil.

I replaced my gearbox oil in the M with castrol manual box oil.. Can't remember off hand the exact grade but it was the correct oil.
Made a nice differents to changes from cold
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Frank.A
Joined: Mon 20 Jul, 2009 21:15
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  Z3 roadster 2.8
Location: Twixt York and Hull

Re: transmission oil changes.

Post by Frank.A »

Something worth remembering when changing oils where a filler/level and drain plugs are involved is to always remove the filler plug FIRST!
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Mike Fishwick
Joined: Fri 19 Jun, 2009 10:27
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  Z3 roadster 2.8
Location: Daglan, France

Re: transmission oil changes.

Post by Mike Fishwick »

Although BMW propaganda tells us that they have discovered an everlasting oil, and that BMW-Approved oil (ie Castrol) must only be used, there is no benefit in using a worn-out oil which will inevitably be carrying metallic debris and moisture. I have met people, however, who agonise about deviating from the Holy Writ of BMW, and eventually keep their 'Lifetime' oil. Maybe they have an Originality fetish . . .

My interperpretation of 'Lifetime' means the 3 year New Car warranty, plus the 1 year BMW Approved Car warranty, after which they really lose interest, except as a means to charge people the earth!

Just because BMW are currently in bed with Castrol - at least for the UK market - does not mean that other makes are somehow deficient. Ther is obviously a marketing policy at work here.

Any Z3 gearbox will run happily on 75-90 EP synthetic, there being no difference between gearboxes - they are Getrag on the smaller engines, or ZF on the 2.8 and above, but they all like the same oil.

The gearbox sticker on the pre-Sept 1998 gearbox called for ATF, and post-Sept 98 for BMW Long Life oil (in non-BMWspeak, synthetic 75-90 EP) even though the gearbox part number is the same.

I have been using Amsoil MTF for years with no problems, and Castrol SAF-XJ (140 EP for all LSD types) in the final drive.

Remember to get new sealing washers for the final drive, and coat the tapered gearbox plugs with a suitable sealant (NOT thread lock!) before replacement. A tail down attitude is handy for full draining of the final drive, but the car should be level before filling either the final drive or gearbox - although as my final drive was half a litre, and the gearbox about a third of a litre low from new I don't suppose it really makes any difference!
Last edited by Mike Fishwick on Tue 19 Mar, 2013 10:39, edited 2 times in total.
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pedro20001
Joined: Sat 29 Jan, 2011 20:34
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  Z3 roadster 2.2i
Location: tamworth

Re: transmission oil changes.

Post by pedro20001 »

nice one mike, its one of the many jobs nearing the top of my list!
alec.m
Joined: Tue 05 Oct, 2010 19:01
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  Z3 roadster 2.8
Location: Lymington

Re: transmission oil changes.

Post by alec.m »

Just read this with interest as I`m due a service shortly and was checking my service booklet. I have a 1999 2.8 but I think the schedule applies to all engines apart from the M. On page 22 which is the maintenance summary it states:
(Additional at every second Inspection II):
Change oil in manual gearbox.
Change oil in rear-axle final drive.

BMW oil is not for life then!
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Robert T
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Re: transmission oil changes.

Post by Robert T »

My service book is slightly different to yours, Alec. Inspection II is on page 27 of my service booklet. It states:

Change the oil in manual gearbox: M3
Change oil in rear-axle final drive: M3, M roadster and coupe

So according to that, the gearbox oil is not in the Z3 service schedule at all, and the diff oil is changed on the ///M cars at Inspection II.

I also copied some info from some of my old service inspections sheets here:

http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopi ... 18&t=10538

This concurs with what it says in my service book. Diff oil on the ///M cars every Inspection II.

This info may well have changed several times since the cars were built, and in the case of the service books, may well have changed at each reprint. Unfortunately there does not seem to be a date on my book to say when it was produced.

Cheers R.
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alec.m
Joined: Tue 05 Oct, 2010 19:01
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  Z3 roadster 2.8
Location: Lymington

Re: transmission oil changes.

Post by alec.m »

Hi Robert,
It seems like the service book I have is generic. It has the Model, Vin and date of registration written in by hand on the first page. Mine only goes up to page 23 unlike yours. Whatever the recommendations I think anyone who cares for their car will change gearbox and final drive oil at some point, it can`t protect forever.
Alec
Del
Joined: Sat 19 Nov, 2011 18:35
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: transmission oil changes.

Post by Del »

Definitely worth doing. It’s a cheap job and helps protect important components that are very expensive to replace! The cars are all now over 10-years old and original oil will be in poor shape.
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Robert T
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Re: transmission oil changes.

Post by Robert T »

Absolutely. Changed mine a last year and it did feel better afterwards.

Cheers R.
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Zed Free
Joined: Mon 12 Nov, 2012 20:23
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  Z3 roadster 2.2i

Re: transmission oil changes.

Post by Zed Free »

Mike
You say to use "a suitable sealant" what would you consider suitable.

Also I notice that Castrol now have a BMW rated gearbox oil available. Has anyone used that?
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Del
Joined: Sat 19 Nov, 2011 18:35
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: transmission oil changes.

Post by Del »

Zed Free wrote:Castrol now have a BMW rated gearbox oil available
Please share :shock:
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Zed Free
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Re: transmission oil changes.

Post by Zed Free »

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Zed Free
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Re: transmission oil changes.

Post by Zed Free »

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/generica ... Id=7068180

This above link is from Castrol Web site.

Below is one with the diff oils

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/generica ... Id=7068181
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Z3cade
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Re: transmission oil changes.

Post by Z3cade »

The only spec oil you need is the GL-4 grade oil.. Ie 75w-90 castrol syntrans multi-vehicle ( that's what's in my M )

The 'newer' GL5 bmw spec oil is ment for 'modern' bmw boxes.. Not our Z3s... It contains properties than can harm our older style boxes..

Oil purchased from Bmw marked MTF-LT2 ( bmws replacement for 'yellow sticker' MTF-LT1 ) is GL-4 graded oil.
Last edited by Z3cade on Sat 23 Mar, 2013 09:36, edited 2 times in total.
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Zed Free
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Re: transmission oil changes.

Post by Zed Free »

The B75w oil mentioned is a GL 4 oil for the gearbox.
The other link is to diff oils which need to be GL 5 and lists one for those with an LSD and one for those with a standard diff.
GL 5 contains high amounts of EP additives which are detrimental to the yellow metal parts of a manual gearbox. So never use a GL5 rated oil in our gearboxes.
Last edited by Zed Free on Mon 25 Mar, 2013 15:11, edited 1 time in total.
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Del
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Re: transmission oil changes.

Post by Del »

As far as I know most modern GL5 gear oils should be fine in the differentials (no delicate synchromesh).

The confusion seems to come with what oil to put in the gearboxes. As Zcade says, when BMW filled the Z3 gearboxes (yellow labels) they used a GL4 oil. I suspect that the gearboxes might well be able to accept a GL5 oil but the problem is that neither BMW nor the gearbox manufacturer is going to confirm anything nowadays other than to refer you to the original labels put on 10+ years ago. Personally, I played safe last year and also used a GL4 oil in my gearbox but went for the Castrol 75W/90 (Syntrans multivehicle). The viscosity range on modern gear oils has typically expanded to 75W/90 and so presumably copes with a wider heat range – which I assume you would definitely encounter in the M model.

The Castrol mono-viscosity gear oil above B75W looks as though it is specifically designed to be a modern, synthetic gear oil equivalent of ATF fluid which BMW used to put into their Z3 boxes before they switched to the yellow labels and GL4 synthetic gear oils. I would guess that it is quite thin and gives very good cold performance – some owners with the bigger ZF gearboxes complain about a notchy gear change when cold.

At the end of the day I don’t believe the viscosity rating alone, is critical in terms of caring for the gearbox. The important thing is to have the gearbox full of good, fresh oil that is not causing it any harm.
Mike Fishwick
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Re: transmission oil changes.

Post by Mike Fishwick »

The greater concentration of phosphorous and/or sulpher compounds in GL5 attack copper-based alloys such as bronze bushes, thrust rings, synchro clutches, and selector forks - not white metal.

BMW specify Longlife 1 from September 1997 to September 2003, then Longlife 2 onwards.

Although all the gearbozes have the same part numbers, perhaps the 1997-2003 boxes require a GL4 oil - this is why I play safe and use Amsoill MTF, which is a Group 1 (very high synthetic ester content) oil, which is fully compatable with bronze synchromesh clutches etc, while giving the anti-wear properties of a GL5 oil.
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Del
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: transmission oil changes.

Post by Del »

I think I’m in danger of becoming a BMW gear oil nerd – one of the drawbacks of owning a BMW Z3 from the late 1990s. :D

In the past I have tried to discover what the mysterious BMW MTF - LT-1 was, as it is the recommendation on the yellow label stuck to the side of most of our gearboxes. I am afraid that the secret seems to be buried in the mists of time. I’m not even sure if BMW hold any secret bulk supplies or whether they just supply MTF-LT-2 if an owner currently asks for LT-1.

One forum I saw, which seemed to have a couple of oil chemists debating the stuff, suggested it was similar to Dexron III ATF oil – perhaps that is why places like GSF and Euro Car Parts often provide ATF oil when they type a Z3 registration number into their parts finding computer.

The only proof I have that MTF-LT-1 existed is the attached – which supports what Mike says above about its introduction.

A final note for Z3M owners is that this MTF-LT-1 container label says: - “exception M3 ECE”. This suggests that LT-1, any current secret hoards of LT-1 or the ATF oil substitute for LT-1, are not suitable for the M cars. :roll:

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Mike Fishwick
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Re: transmission oil changes.

Post by Mike Fishwick »

Looks as if LT-2 is interchangeable with LT-1, which keeps things simple. Perhaps LT-2 has undergone a quiet reformulation to make it fully compatable with any copper-based alloy. It is probably still a GL-4 oil, since it isa not used in final drives or FWD transaxles, where the stonger EP qualities of GL5 are necessary.

According to Opie Oils, the LT-1 used as the initial fill was Fuchs Sintofluid, which is understandable, as the Germans prefer to support German industry.

It's a pity that BMW do not simply specify approved lubricants - they help neither their owners nor themselves by this pathetic secrecy.
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Zed Free
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Re: transmission oil changes.

Post by Zed Free »

Mike Fishwick wrote:The greater concentration of phosphorous and/or sulpher compounds in GL5 attack copper-based alloys such as bronze bushes, thrust rings, synchro clutches, and selector forks - not white metal.

BMW specify Longlife 1 from September 1997 to September 2003, then Longlife 2 onwards.

Although all the gearbozes have the same part numbers, perhaps the 1997-2003 boxes require a GL4 oil - this is why I play safe and use Amsoill MTF, which is a Group 1 (very high synthetic ester content) oil, which is fully compatable with bronze synchromesh clutches etc, while giving the anti-wear properties of a GL5 oil.
Mike - Thanks for correcting my momentary lapse of reason, I have corrected the white metal to yellow metal. What comes of trying to multi task with brain on other things at the same time.

The B75W oil is what the Castol site recommends for all the newer Z3 boxes with the LT1 yellow sticker, and still recommend ATF for older ones with the orange sticker, tried a variety of Z3 models in their product selector on there.
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