air bag light

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littlefeller
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air bag light

Post by littlefeller » Sat 08 Jun, 2013 08:24

well I got myself some cluster bulbs (airbag and odometer), removed pod - yep sure enough someone somewhere has removed the bulb for the airbag, so I replaced the bulb and before sliding the pod back in I decided to test the new bulbs. odometer fine :) airbag still no show :? , not even with key just turned :o . odd, so I look at the back of the cluster - yep bulb working :? removed bulb and :shock: , some one again somewhere, most likely the same guy had stuffed the light cavity with tissue :shock: . removed tissue with forceps and light now working, though not as I would have liked as it is on permanently. this now explains why the passenger seat had a plug out underneath, so I checked the drivers side after fitting the bulb and yep that one unplugged too :evil: does anyone happen to have a schematic for the belt pre-tensioners (drivers side has a grounding issue somewhere)

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Re: air bag light

Post by Jonco » Sat 08 Jun, 2013 10:02

Have a look through this

http://wedophones.com/Manuals/BMW/1998% ... Manual.pdf

Brian H or Robert T will probably have something more specific. :)

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Re: air bag light

Post by gookah » Sat 08 Jun, 2013 10:50

it may be a simple as reconnecting the plug and getting a tool to reset the light.
If the plugs are disturbed with the ignition on it will put the airbag light on, and that remains on until a reset with a tool

The plugs on the drivers seat will be for the seatbelt Pre-tensioner, I would check that wiring.
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Re: air bag light

Post by Brian H » Sat 08 Jun, 2013 11:52

It really p*&ses me off when someone deliberately tampers with a car like this, the light is a warning light for a reason. Circuit NOT working.

Diagram as requested: -

Image

Agree with Gookah, really need to put a code reader on to find the fault (if there is one). Check that both pre tensioners are the same length.

The one below has fired :shock:

Image
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littlefeller
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Re: air bag light

Post by littlefeller » Sat 08 Jun, 2013 12:42

ok so after putting the plugs under the seat back in the light stayed on, I reset it with impa and now all is fine, would have been simpler had this other guy just found the plug in the first place. but then would he have been selling it :) :twisted:

the bit I don't get is why stuff paper in the hole :?

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BladeRunner919
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Re: air bag light

Post by BladeRunner919 » Sat 08 Jun, 2013 13:32

There is supposed to be a secondary bulb that lights if the first one blows (that sits a little further inside the hole for the bulb). The paper is probably to ensure that it doesn't shine through.

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Robert T
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Re: air bag light

Post by Robert T » Sat 08 Jun, 2013 14:45

BladeRunner919 wrote:There is supposed to be a secondary bulb that lights if the first one blows (that sits a little further inside the hole for the bulb). The paper is probably to ensure that it doesn't shine through.
I saw no evidence of this when I was checking the bulbs in my cluster. There only appeared to be a single bulb in a holder the same as all the others. I am guessing that maybe the backlighting leaked through the empty hole.

Cheers R.

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Re: air bag light

Post by BladeRunner919 » Sat 08 Jun, 2013 18:40

Robert T wrote:
BladeRunner919 wrote:There is supposed to be a secondary bulb that lights if the first one blows (that sits a little further inside the hole for the bulb). The paper is probably to ensure that it doesn't shine through.
I saw no evidence of this when I was checking the bulbs in my cluster. There only appeared to be a single bulb in a holder the same as all the others. I am guessing that maybe the backlighting leaked through the empty hole.

Cheers R.

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There's a second bulb that I think is soldered to the circuit board. If you remove the bulb for the airbag light, you can just see it poking its head into where the main bulb sits. Have a look at:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh ... p?t=127989

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Re: air bag light

Post by littlefeller » Sat 08 Jun, 2013 20:23

yes there were a couple of real tiny bulbs soldered to the board on the cluster I just brought, I will have a look where they are in relation to the telltails in the morning

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Re: air bag light

Post by Robert T » Sat 08 Jun, 2013 22:29

I can't view the bimmerforums pic without an account, but here is a photo pingu took of a disassembled Z3 cluster. There is just about space for a bulb in the triangular shaped piece at the right-hand end of the telltales.

Image

There was nothing I could make out as a bulb on the rear.

Just goes to show you learn something new every day. :)

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Re: air bag light

Post by littlefeller » Sun 09 Jun, 2013 06:32

yep just had a look at mine (can post pics if anyone needs internal pics of the dials) sure enough there is a small bulb soldered to the board, there is a channel (the triangular pieces on robs pic) that runs into the cavity for the airbag light, its the only tell-tale that has one. well that clears up the stuff it full of paper idea (I need a wanker smiley) :evil: think maybe he tried unplugging the seats first but then when the light stayed on he just covered up the issue. after looking under the seat to figure how to get the up-down to work on the passenger seat I found a few bare wires (looks like they may have got trapped in the mechanism at some point), this is prob where the airbag issue arose, but as he couldn't reset the light he didn't realise that the problem had gone, so he unplugged them instead :? cant figure why he thought that would get rid of the issue. all fixed now, inpa is already paying for itself :) and I was able to use it on son -in-laws e46.

airbag light is now an mot failure so these kind of antics are going to increase.
now I need to tackle the phase error :? im thinking this is the cam shaft position sensor for the simple reason that sometimes valve timing is referred to as phasing. this is my current line of reasoning. car runs fine, if I clear the code it just reappears after a couple of days, always at different rpm though.

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Re: air bag light

Post by gookah » Sun 09 Jun, 2013 11:02

littlefeller wrote:
airbag light is now an mot failure so these kind of antics are going to increase.

I reckon they are more likely to get fixed,
The MOT check specifies that the light must come on and then go off.
Missing lamp or 'taped over' will fail, just as much as one that doesn't go off.
Although some are reporting still being passed with a fault.
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Re: air bag light

Post by BladeRunner919 » Sun 09 Jun, 2013 13:26

gookah wrote:
littlefeller wrote:
airbag light is now an mot failure so these kind of antics are going to increase.

I reckon they are more likely to get fixed,
The MOT check specifies that the light must come on and then go off.
Missing lamp or 'taped over' will fail, just as much as one that doesn't go off.
Although some are reporting still being passed with a fault.
I wouldn't bet on it - mine had been 'fixed' by removing the soldered-on bulb and wiring the main bulb to one of the other warning lights so that it can on and off!! I have now re-fixed it back to how it should be, and cleared the codes etc.

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Re: air bag light

Post by Jonco » Thu 13 Jun, 2013 21:46

I am trying to resolve an Airbag fault which INPA tells me is Fault 6 Ignition circuit 2 -> passenger seat belt tensioners
I did not want to start a new thread because a lot of the previous information is probably relevant.
My airbag light is not functioning (I have yet to source new bulb) but I can just about see the back-up referred to in posts above (previously I did not know this existed) and it is ON.

I have been checking wiring to tensioner today because it was badly kinked and flattened. Got a bit confusing because I discovered somebody had previously spliced a different coloured cable into the feed to the yellow plug under the seat.

Continuity is surpisingly Ok and I am measuring 2v either side of tensioner switch - anybody have any ideas whether this is correct?

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Re: air bag light

Post by littlefeller » Thu 13 Jun, 2013 22:57

sounds like someone has had a go at fixing it before, have you tried clearing the airbag memory?

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Re: air bag light

Post by Jonco » Fri 14 Jun, 2013 08:19

littlefeller wrote:sounds like someone has had a go at fixing it before, have you tried clearing the airbag memory?
Yep - but it immediately comes back in again which is why I thought it was damaged wiring.

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Re: air bag light

Post by Brian H » Fri 14 Jun, 2013 08:55

The cables for the seatbelt tensioners are interchangeable, a PITA to do but it would rule out the cable if when cleared the fault stayed with the passenger seatbelt tensioner.

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Re: air bag light

Post by Jonco » Fri 14 Jun, 2013 13:08

Brian H wrote:The cables for the seatbelt tensioners are interchangeable, a PITA to do but it would rule out the cable if when cleared the fault stayed with the passenger seatbelt tensioner.
Thanks Brian - will try that later - will be taking cluster out later for bulb checks. Totally agree with PITA - I was looking at how you got them out yesterday.

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Re: air bag light

Post by Brian H » Fri 14 Jun, 2013 15:01

Jonco wrote:I was looking at how you got them out yesterday.
Just a cable tie holds the connector to the pre-tensioner, remove this and the connector pulls upwards

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Re: air bag light

Post by Jonco » Fri 14 Jun, 2013 17:38

Another one to make your blood boil :evil: :evil:
Took instrument cluster out today and removed bulb - no tissue evident as with littlefeller's but extracted a 30mm length of 10mm dia tubing :!: :evil:

Fitted working bulb and re-tested - still very dim light. Had a further look and poked about through the aperture with a screwdriver - extracted a blob of black silcone rubber from base of bulb hole. :evil: :evil: Could have killed the irresponsible **** at this stage - just as well I don't know who he is.

Re-fitted cluster - air bag light was now well and truly lit. Connected INPA cleared error memory - light now functioning as it should. :shock:
Brian H wrote:Just a cable tie holds the connector to the pre-tensioner, remove this and the connector pulls upwards
There was no cable tie on passenger side - when I was checking wiring yesterday I unplugged this and re-inserted it - maybe ............. watch this space.
Thanks for suggestions.

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Re: air bag light

Post by littlefeller » Sat 15 Jun, 2013 12:35

Jonco wrote:Another one to make your blood boil :evil: :evil:
Took instrument cluster out today and removed bulb - no tissue evident as with littlefeller's but extracted a 30mm length of 10mm dia tubing :!: :evil:

Fitted working bulb and re-tested - still very dim light. Had a further look and poked about through the aperture with a screwdriver - extracted a blob of black silcone rubber from base of bulb hole. :evil: :evil: Could have killed the irresponsible **** at this stage - just as well I don't know who he is.

Re-fitted cluster - air bag light was now well and truly lit. Connected INPA cleared error memory - light now functioning as it should. :shock:
Brian H wrote:Just a cable tie holds the connector to the pre-tensioner, remove this and the connector pulls upwards
There was no cable tie on passenger side - when I was checking wiring yesterday I unplugged this and re-inserted it - maybe ............. watch this space.
Thanks for suggestions.
:roflmao: glad mine was just paper :lol:
I would appear as though if an error of sorts accrues within the airbag module it doesn't forget, even if fixed.

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Re: air bag light

Post by Jonco » Sat 15 Jun, 2013 13:37

Will now have to check there is actually a bag still installed. :rtm: If somebody has gone to those lengths to conceal an illuminated bulb then who knows what else they have done :!:

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Re: air bag light

Post by Jonco » Sat 22 Jun, 2013 18:48

Jonco wrote:Will now have to check there is actually a bag still installed. :rtm: If somebody has gone to those lengths to conceal an illuminated bulb then who knows what else they have done :!:
Checked today and relieved to find a bag there.
It has the original date stampings on it and seems Ok visually. Whether it will work is something I will try and avoid putting to the test.

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Re: air bag light

Post by OXO » Sun 30 Jun, 2013 13:21

I thought I'd add to this thread instead of starting a new one.

So I have the same issue; a dim air bag light. I have a code reader/ reset tool, so I read the codes:-

Code: Select all

03 belt tensioner passenger side
so I whip the seat out, check all the wiring and it looks fine. Reconnect seat, reset codes, ign back on and read codes;

Code: Select all

03 belt tensioner passenger side
Right, swap passenger seat to drivers side. reset. read codes. ( there's now no passenger seat connected, but I get the same code for the passenger side - expected), but no code for the drivers side. I interpret this to mean that the wiring in the seat is ok.

so, now connect drivers seat to passenger side. reset, read codes

Code: Select all

03 belt tensioner passenger side
So both seats work fine on drivers side, and none work on the passenger side. It must be something in the upstream loom, or airbag control module. Gaah!

Work continues..

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Re: air bag light

Post by Jonco » Sun 30 Jun, 2013 15:03

OXO wrote: ..........So I have the same issue; a dim air bag light........
I would be suspicious that the dim air bag light is because somebody could not reset the fault so chose to obscure it - as with mine and littlefellers. Might be worth whipping the cluster out to check (it's a quick job). If there's anything in there you may find you really have a bright airbag light.

On the wiring issue you need to do some continuity/voltage checks to help identify any failed section. I think mine was down to poor contact on the pretensioner plug in and I luckily cleared it by un-plugging and re-inserting. Sounds like you will have already done that in changing seat.

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Re: air bag light

Post by OXO » Sun 30 Jun, 2013 18:28

And the position now is that I did one final reset to be sure, and the light is now off.

It's is the worst outcome, because I don't know what it was that fixed it. In electronics, that usually means that it will come back at the most inconvenient moment...


I haven't pulled the cluster out to see what the light situation is yet - how do i get it out?

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Re: air bag light

Post by Robert T » Sun 30 Jun, 2013 18:34

It will likely be fixed until the next time you move the seat. All it takes is a momentary break in the circuit and the light comes back on. I understand that there was a problem with the connectors on the original wiring loom and BMW came out with a replacement, which I have had fitted to my car, but I don't know how they changed it to fix the problem.

Instrument cluster bulb replacement is in the knowledgebase: http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopi ... 18&t=33125

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Re: air bag light

Post by OXO » Sun 30 Jun, 2013 19:30

Thanks R T. do you know the part number for the upgraded wiring loom?

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Re: air bag light

Post by Robert T » Sun 30 Jun, 2013 22:34

Assuming I typed it in correctly off the invoice, the part I was billed for was 61.12.6.908.853.

According to bmwfans, it is "Production Discontinued": http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/61126908853/ :?

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Re: air bag light

Post by Brian H » Mon 01 Jul, 2013 08:54

AFAIAA, the newer style connectors are a more robust connector that attaches to the bottom of the seat, the new connector takes in all the electrical connections, i.e. heated seats, power seats, pre-tensioner unlike the older style ones which have individual connectors for each. The main advantage of this new style connector is that the pretensioner cable does not need to hang down under the seat so therefore does not get snagged and set the airbag light off.

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Re: air bag light

Post by OXO » Mon 01 Jul, 2013 16:50

It's all finished.

I had the cluster out today to sort the dim airbag light, and all it turned out to be was a dim bulb.


Many thanks to all here.

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Re: air bag light

Post by bertiejaffa » Wed 02 Jul, 2014 19:32

Not wanting to start a new thread, I have had my airbag light on in my 2.0l for ages now, and had the reset tool for almost as long!! It came on at the back end of last year - I assume as a result of me continuously moving the seat forward and backward when I am getting in and out of the car.

Anyway, now that I am about to put the old girl back together I thought I would reset the light today - hmmmm didnt work :head: !!

Anyway, as part of putting it back together I have had to take the seats out this afternoon so I can easily get at the wires. Can anyone please explain which wires I should look at first for damage?

My seats are in a post facelift, and have multiple connectors (car side shown below - 1 little yellow one which connects to a yellow one on the seats, one large white one which connects to the seats, one black one with 4 wires - This one isnt connected to anything on my seats because I assume its for the heated seats... The picture below is the passenger side loom which also has a very small connector which is also not connected to anything on the passenger seat - this connector isn't there on the drivers side loom)

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Re: air bag light

Post by Sailorbaz » Thu 03 Jul, 2014 02:13

You mentioned the Odometer being dim, does this have it's own bulb?

I installed a salvaged unit and I can hardly read the mileage of the car it come from when I switch the ignition on. I've no issues removing the cluster, can I open it up and replace the lamp? If so, this is great news.

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Re: air bag light

Post by Southernboy » Thu 03 Jul, 2014 07:51

......You can open the cluster, but I'm not sure there is a "bulb" for that.... It's one of those led things like on a calculator which lights up the specific digits as the mileage trips over.... :(
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Re: air bag light

Post by Robert T » Thu 03 Jul, 2014 08:36

It's a bulb, in fact two, one for the mileage and one for the service lights. They are backlit LCD panels, rather than LED.

I posted on this a while back - there was some debate as to whether the bulb could be replaced without replacing the holder. I just bought a complete replacement from my local dealer.

Cheers R.

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Re: air bag light

Post by Southernboy » Thu 03 Jul, 2014 08:41

...... There you go... the guru has spoken... :D replacement bulbs required... :wink:
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Re: air bag light

Post by Jonco » Thu 03 Jul, 2014 18:42

bertiejaffa wrote:...................... Can anyone please explain which wires I should look at first for damage?

My seats are in a post facelift, and have multiple connectors (car side shown below - 1 little yellow one which connects to a yellow one on the seats, one large white one which connects to the seats, one black one with 4 wires - This one isnt connected to anything on my seats because I assume its for the heated seats... The picture below is the passenger side loom which also has a very small connector which is also not connected to anything on the passenger seat - this connector isn't there on the drivers side loom)
The yellow will be to the seat belt pre-tensioner - the black to the heaters (as you have said), white to seat motors. The small unconnected one will be passenger seat occupancy - which will not be connected if you don't have passenger air bag - not required on driver's side for obvious reasons. You can check wiring colour coding in ETM. The sharp 90' bends in cables are favorite failure points - but also check/clean the connectors (yellow) at seat belt tensioner - these normally have a cable tie around them to maintain good contact. HTH

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Re: air bag light

Post by Koolflyer » Fri 04 Jul, 2014 08:43

Another one to make your blood boil Took instrument cluster out today and removed bulb - no tissue evident as with littlefeller's but extracted a 30mm length of 10mm dia tubing

Fitted working bulb and re-tested - still very dim light. Had a further look and poked about through the aperture with a screwdriver - extracted a blob of black silcone rubber from base of bulb hole. Could have killed the irresponsible **** at this stage - just as well I don't know who he is.
Been here, check past posts. Surely, when it comes to safety, ie your own neck, I'm amazed that some people think it OK to make a botch job! Wouldn't want to go flying in your aeroplane..........who ever you are :head:
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Re: air bag light

Post by bertiejaffa » Fri 04 Jul, 2014 15:54

Jonco wrote:
bertiejaffa wrote:...................... Can anyone please explain which wires I should look at first for damage?

My seats are in a post facelift, and have multiple connectors (car side shown below - 1 little yellow one which connects to a yellow one on the seats, one large white one which connects to the seats, one black one with 4 wires - This one isnt connected to anything on my seats because I assume its for the heated seats... The picture below is the passenger side loom which also has a very small connector which is also not connected to anything on the passenger seat - this connector isn't there on the drivers side loom)
The yellow will be to the seat belt pre-tensioner - the black to the heaters (as you have said), white to seat motors. The small unconnected one will be passenger seat occupancy - which will not be connected if you don't have passenger air bag - not required on driver's side for obvious reasons. You can check wiring colour coding in ETM. The sharp 90' bends in cables are favorite failure points - but also check/clean the connectors (yellow) at seat belt tensioner - these normally have a cable tie around them to maintain good contact. HTH
Thanks for clarifying it I'll check them this weekend then - hopefully will be a simple fix - I'll update when I've found the issue. And yep, no passenger airbag so that explains the rogue little white connector too :wink:
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Re: air bag light

Post by bertiejaffa » Wed 09 Jul, 2014 14:10

Ok so I managed to reset mine today, I am not sure what the problem was, I am assuming the connection under the seat must have come loose slightly at some time in the past whilst moving the seats backward and forwards. The problem I had found is that I wasn't resetting the light correctly. Using the airbag reset tool I noted all (yes all) the codes and then I selected "cA" for reset and pressed enter as per the manual. I would then run round the dash and look and find the light still on. Today after trying many things to no avail I held the enter down in a fit of anger more than any thing and the tool started doing something different. In my annoyance I went and brewed up and when I came back I noticed the airbag light had gone off... Obviously I should have held the enter button not just pressed it!

Anyway, why do I assume it must have just been a loose connection? Well firstly the seats have been in and out a couple of times since the airbag light came on and therefore I have definitely reseated the connection under the seat more than one. On most of these occasions I haven't bothered with the reset attempts either so I wouldn't have known this was the issue. However today I started with my attempt to reset: so write up for people.

First issue is the OBD port under the steering wheel. When I plugged the tool in as instructed and asked it to look for faults it came back with "E10" - according to the manual anything with "E" means it's not communicating properly. I tried all the trouble shooting tips they provide but nothing worked so in the end I used the port under the bonnet, it came up with a number of errors but the main one I could identify was table 38, fault 0d - firing circuit - head airbag - front right side. I assumed this to mean the drivers airbag which would make sense based on my theory that it was the result of me moving the seat back and forth for my little legs!


Right, what did I do? Remember this is my seat connector, not the big yellow block. If you have the big yellow block though it is much the same approach, you just have to identify the right connections.
[URL=http://s42.photobucket.com/user/bertiej ... d.jpg.html]

1) simple stuff - quick man scan on the connectors, pull them apart, blow on them, spray wd40 reconnect and try again

2) I removed the wire that is attached to the seat first and tested it for continuity - this involved prying open the little connector at the pre-tensioner end to get to the wires and then using a multimeter I checked the other end. When looking in the other end I noticed that there is a flexible piece of cooper that shorts the connectors out when it is not attached - presumably to set off the light. Therefore I had to wedge a small piece of plastic down to stop this shorting out and ensure the continuity of the individual 2 wires (I used a small plastic spoon that can with my ice cream tube from the ice cream van that just happened to call by :wink: ). With the shorting bar out of the way this proved there was no breaks in these wires.

3) next I chased the wire back at the car end under the carpet and cut back the hessian type covering a few inch until I found an OEM set of crimps on this wire. As there is not any other obvious connector block to trace back to under the carpet I cut the wires at this point and checked the continuity again. The car side connection block is to enclosed and small to check it so I simply connected it to the seat side of the loom and checked the full continuity from the cut ends through to the pre-tensioner end that I still had prised open - because I connected up the 2 bits of the loom the OEM connector under the seat did the natural job of prying open the breaker bar in the connector in point 2. This again proved there were no breaks or shorts in the wiring.

4) so I re-crimped the car side wires back together and I unbolted one of the pre-tensioners/seat belt buckles from one of my other seats and just connected it up. After all, I had no proved that the wiring was good up to halfway under the carpet so maybe it was the pre-tensioners itself that had gone faulty, I tried this with a number of the spare pre-tensioners

It was at this point I tried the reset and the light stayed on. So I was assuming that either all my pre-tensioners were flawed or the wiring break was somewhere deep in the loom - that's why I lost my rag and held the button in out of annoyance....

Not sure it helps other people with the issue but hopefully it provides an insight into how to use the tool and the steps to take to find out where the fault may lie.

Final thing to say, the picture above is from the passenger side and as mentioned on one of the threads, the small white connector is for the occupancy sensor for the passenger airbag. Mine doesn't have one so this connector is not used on my 2.0l so the write up above doesn't discuss trouble shooting that.
Here come the girls.....
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