I have recently purchased a nice little 2.0 roadster 1999 but either it was built as a personal commission for Geoff Capes (does that make me old?) or something is slightly amiss. It takes an almighty effort to both raise it and lower it (age again?) I have to put all my 14 stone behind it to get it to move in either direction.
It was fitted with a hardtop when I bought it so the soft top may of course have been folded away under this for years for all I know but my question is; should I be doing something different i.e. releasing some hidden lever somewhere or is it just a case of some lubrication combined with a weekly weights session at the gym?
The roof is manual and is mohair with lining so much posher than my previous ones (albeit they were electric)
Cheers
Peter
Reluctant manual Softop!
Re: Reluctant manual Softop!
Are you sure it's a manual roof ? Manual rooves are a one hand operation.
Gazza
"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you"
Z3 S54 M roadster
, BMW Z1, BMW M3 CSL, Z4M Coupe
"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you"
Z3 S54 M roadster
, BMW Z1, BMW M3 CSL, Z4M Coupe-
BladeRunner919
- Joined: Fri 17 Feb, 2012 20:18
- Posts: 2225
Re: Reluctant manual Softop!
I'd be really careful about applying lots of pressure in case you bend the frame. As Gazza says, should be an easy one-handed operation.
Re: Reluctant manual Softop!
The roof should not be stiff. The manual roof has a gas strut similar to the ones on the boot lid to aid with raising and lowering the roof. If you are having to apply that much force to it, you are at risk of breaking something, most likely the socket on the end of the gas strut where it attaches to the roof frame, or worse, bending the roof frame out of shape!
How sure are you that you have a manual roof? When electric roofs have problems, there is a release valve on the pump in the boot that you turn and can then operate the roof manually - you still have to displace the hydraulic fluid, so it is harder to operate than a manual roof would be. Could you have an electric roof and not know it? Have a look behind the left hand trim in the boot and see if you have a pump.
Once you are sure that you definitely have a manual roof, I think you need to have a closer look at the gas strut and possibly disconnect it. If the roof is still stiff after that, then there is a problem with the roof frame, but if it moves easily, a replacement gas strut should fix it.
Cheers R.
How sure are you that you have a manual roof? When electric roofs have problems, there is a release valve on the pump in the boot that you turn and can then operate the roof manually - you still have to displace the hydraulic fluid, so it is harder to operate than a manual roof would be. Could you have an electric roof and not know it? Have a look behind the left hand trim in the boot and see if you have a pump.
Once you are sure that you definitely have a manual roof, I think you need to have a closer look at the gas strut and possibly disconnect it. If the roof is still stiff after that, then there is a problem with the roof frame, but if it moves easily, a replacement gas strut should fix it.
Cheers R.
Arctic Silver '99 Z3 1.9 & Black '59 Frogeye 1275cc
Re: Reluctant manual Softop!
OK thank you for the responses however I am now just a little confused. Robert, there does appear to be a pump in the left side of the boot with a cylinder filled with hydraulic fluid- together with the release valve control you mentioned- however I can not for the life of me find an activating switch on the dash or anywhere in the cabin!
Does anyone know where one may be hidden? May be it was a commission for James Bond rather than Geoff Capes... I'm going to look under the carpet tomorrow for the rocket launcher buttons.
Does anyone know where one may be hidden? May be it was a commission for James Bond rather than Geoff Capes... I'm going to look under the carpet tomorrow for the rocket launcher buttons.
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Rocketbike
- Joined: Thu 17 May, 2012 20:12
- Posts: 83
Re: Reluctant manual Softop!
Don't wish to sound silly, but do you tilt up the front of the roof to pull it back, after you have released the two locking levers - it's not immediately obvious you need to do that When you do put it back I also sort of chop the back window with my arm, so it folds nicely without creasing 
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jessicafay28
- Joined: Mon 22 Apr, 2013 13:18
- Posts: 88
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Re: Reluctant manual Softop!
This really made me laughPistol968 wrote:
Does anyone know where one may be hidden? May be it was a commission for James Bond rather than Geoff Capes... I'm going to look under the carpet tomorrow for the rocket launcher buttons.
Re: Reluctant manual Softop!
Right, you have an electro-mechanical roof. That's a £500 option you didn't know you had. 
The switch for the roof is normally either on the front switch panel with the ASC/DSC, heated seats, aircon etc. or on the rear switch panel between the seats if you have one fitted. The early type is a rocker switch - the later one has an up and a down button. If you have the switch, but it appears to do nothing, that is because you have to first lift the front section of the roof and then put your foot on the brake before operating the switch. It is best to have the engine running, as it will flatten the battery, but it will work without.
If the roof failed previously, it is entirely plausible that someone removed the switch and flogged the car as having a manual roof, rather than fix the problem. Ironically, fixing the roof is often down to replacing either a bit of wiring or a microswitch, or even just bending the arm on the microswitch back into shape. Considering the lengths some sellers have gone to in order to disguise airbag lights, removing a roof switch is pretty trivial.
It also sounds like the valve is not in the released position, so you are trying to force fluid through the pump, which will surely break something. If you definitely don't have a switch, then turn the valve and it should operate much more easily. I doubt you've turned into a 14 stone weakling overnight.
Cheers R.
The switch for the roof is normally either on the front switch panel with the ASC/DSC, heated seats, aircon etc. or on the rear switch panel between the seats if you have one fitted. The early type is a rocker switch - the later one has an up and a down button. If you have the switch, but it appears to do nothing, that is because you have to first lift the front section of the roof and then put your foot on the brake before operating the switch. It is best to have the engine running, as it will flatten the battery, but it will work without.
If the roof failed previously, it is entirely plausible that someone removed the switch and flogged the car as having a manual roof, rather than fix the problem. Ironically, fixing the roof is often down to replacing either a bit of wiring or a microswitch, or even just bending the arm on the microswitch back into shape. Considering the lengths some sellers have gone to in order to disguise airbag lights, removing a roof switch is pretty trivial.
It also sounds like the valve is not in the released position, so you are trying to force fluid through the pump, which will surely break something. If you definitely don't have a switch, then turn the valve and it should operate much more easily. I doubt you've turned into a 14 stone weakling overnight.
Cheers R.
Arctic Silver '99 Z3 1.9 & Black '59 Frogeye 1275cc
Re: Reluctant manual Softop!
Cheers Robert! I will have a good look around the cabin tomorrow for said switch although I am fairly certain that there is not one. The switch panel on the dash is a fairy sad state of affairs with only the ASC switch- the three other "switches" are just blank covers. I would agree that as it was fitted with a hard top previously the roof had indeed failed and someone has probably just removed the power switch.
As I am off to The Goodwood Festival of speed tomorrow I will definitely want the roof down so will try to activate the release valve before taking the roof down- I do not want to spoil the day by breaking the roof or worse dislocating a shoulder!
Thanks again for the advice.
regards
Peter
As I am off to The Goodwood Festival of speed tomorrow I will definitely want the roof down so will try to activate the release valve before taking the roof down- I do not want to spoil the day by breaking the roof or worse dislocating a shoulder!
Thanks again for the advice.
regards
Peter
Re: Reluctant manual Softop!
Well colour me stupid.
I found the power roof button- it was where you said it would be Robert, on the tunnel to the rear of the seats but unsurprisingly it does not do a thing- no whirring of motors, no clicks or buzzes so I can safely assume that all is not well with the roof (or I have broken it with my hamfistedness...) I will check all of the connections etc and see if I can find a sign of life.
Still Couldn't find the rocket launchers though...
I found the power roof button- it was where you said it would be Robert, on the tunnel to the rear of the seats but unsurprisingly it does not do a thing- no whirring of motors, no clicks or buzzes so I can safely assume that all is not well with the roof (or I have broken it with my hamfistedness...) I will check all of the connections etc and see if I can find a sign of life.
Still Couldn't find the rocket launchers though...
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BladeRunner919
- Joined: Fri 17 Feb, 2012 20:18
- Posts: 2225
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Re: Reluctant manual Softop!
You do have to lift the front of the roof up and apply the brake before it will work - I assume you are doing that?
Re: Reluctant manual Softop!
The pump will only run when all parts of the circuit are in place - this means that the brake pedal must be depressed (it uses the same switch as the brake lights) and the microswitch above centre of the passenger (left hand) door must have operated (the front section of the roof hinges upwards and operates the switch) and then the roof switch operated up or down. Assuming that you are doing this, then your are into fault diagnosis.
1. Check that the brake lights are working
2. Check the microswitch and the wiring that leads up to it - both can fail. You can unplug the microswitch on the side of the left hand hard top mount - the hardtop shares the same wiring loom connector for the heated rear windscreen. You can then either short the pins on the car side, or check the switch operation with a multimeter on the switch side. If you choose to short (thus simulating the microswitch) make sure you get the right pins, as only two of them are for the microswitch - you don't want to short the the HRW supply!
3. Check that the roof switch is operating as it should with a multimeter
It is rarer for the pump to fail, but there are two relays that control the motor direction and you ought to be able to hear these click if everything else is working okay.
Cheers R.
1. Check that the brake lights are working
2. Check the microswitch and the wiring that leads up to it - both can fail. You can unplug the microswitch on the side of the left hand hard top mount - the hardtop shares the same wiring loom connector for the heated rear windscreen. You can then either short the pins on the car side, or check the switch operation with a multimeter on the switch side. If you choose to short (thus simulating the microswitch) make sure you get the right pins, as only two of them are for the microswitch - you don't want to short the the HRW supply!
3. Check that the roof switch is operating as it should with a multimeter
It is rarer for the pump to fail, but there are two relays that control the motor direction and you ought to be able to hear these click if everything else is working okay.
Cheers R.
Arctic Silver '99 Z3 1.9 & Black '59 Frogeye 1275cc
Re: Reluctant manual Softop!
Robert- a very big thank you for your advice and for taking the trouble to post your responses- I have now have a fully working power hood!
I had disconnected a few of the wires as I thought they were for the hardtop heated window but as soon as I reconnected them and re tightened the release valve in the boot- one press of the button and up it came.
Still cant for the life of me understand how I missed seeing the button in the first place- although it is a a completely different location to my two previous Z's power hood switches.
Cheers
Peter
PS I also found the rocket launcher buttons- my neighbour is not so pleased but what the heck, it was a very old garden shed anyway.
I had disconnected a few of the wires as I thought they were for the hardtop heated window but as soon as I reconnected them and re tightened the release valve in the boot- one press of the button and up it came.
Still cant for the life of me understand how I missed seeing the button in the first place- although it is a a completely different location to my two previous Z's power hood switches.
Cheers
Peter
PS I also found the rocket launcher buttons- my neighbour is not so pleased but what the heck, it was a very old garden shed anyway.
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BladeRunner919
- Joined: Fri 17 Feb, 2012 20:18
- Posts: 2225
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Re: Reluctant manual Softop!
Just remember to drop the roof before using the passenger ejector seat!
Re: Reluctant manual Softop!
Glad your roof is sorted. Might have to write a leccy roof troubleshooting guide if I can find the photos I need.
You have to flip the top of the gearknob up for the rocket launchers on mine. Yours might be in a different place. They may pop up if you put the windows down, close the doors and lock the car with the key, but hold the key in the lock position for 10 seconds.
Cheers R.
You have to flip the top of the gearknob up for the rocket launchers on mine. Yours might be in a different place. They may pop up if you put the windows down, close the doors and lock the car with the key, but hold the key in the lock position for 10 seconds.
Cheers R.
Arctic Silver '99 Z3 1.9 & Black '59 Frogeye 1275cc
Re: Reluctant manual Softop!
Just curious, but why did you disconnect the hardtop wiring? This is designed to be left in place when the hardtop is removed.
Did you sell the hardtop and fixing kit?
Did you sell the hardtop and fixing kit?
2001 M roadster S54 Laguna Seca Blue
Re: Reluctant manual Softop!
Cheers Robert, I will give that try!
Yes- removed and sold the hard top with the fitting kit- sold to Nash on here.
Peter
Yes- removed and sold the hard top with the fitting kit- sold to Nash on here.
Peter
