Falling Prices

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dazthephot
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Falling Prices

Post by dazthephot » Wed 11 Sep, 2013 19:48

I don't know whether this lovely example belongs to anyone on here but I just thought I'd lament in how little our cars fetch these days.
Sign of the times I know and I never want to part with ours but still. A lot of car for piss poor money.
Look at this lovely example:
http://bit.ly/1cIkyVB

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Alfie
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Re: Falling Prices

Post by Alfie » Thu 12 Sep, 2013 01:21

Awesomely gorgeous car for no money at all.....
Shame, isn't it?
A.
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Z3cade
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Re: Falling Prices

Post by Z3cade » Thu 12 Sep, 2013 08:17

Thats such a nice colour for the zeds too.. Stunning example
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Skylark
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Re: Falling Prices

Post by Skylark » Thu 12 Sep, 2013 08:17

Looked at this one before I bought mine, but preferred the Black paint and red leather - but does look a lovely car. Paid about the same for mine - which is good for me but does show that prices are falling even for low mileage Z'ds in great condition.

Mike Fishwick
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Re: Falling Prices

Post by Mike Fishwick » Thu 12 Sep, 2013 08:46

Well, the newest Z3 is ten years old, so what do you expect?

Many of these 'immaculate' cars are a sea of rust, dirt, and neglect when one looks underneath, just like any other old car. So far we have not heard of a badly rusted Z3, but that will come too.

When the 'normal' cars have gone, those good examples remaining wil probably increase on price, but don't hold your breath for it to happen!

Value does not really matter if you enjoy the car, and plan to keep it - I paid £22k for my year old 2.8 in 2000, and I guess that it is now worth barely £3k - which does not worry me at all. After 130k miles I do not plan to ever sell it, and I have had a lot of pleasure from it.
A Z3 is not just for Christmas - it's for life!

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Re: Falling Prices

Post by maurice the martian » Thu 12 Sep, 2013 09:13

22k worth 3k now. 13yrs joy.£28 Per week of ownership.
Damm good value. :grin::grin::grin:
Moz

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Del
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Re: Falling Prices

Post by Del » Thu 12 Sep, 2013 10:01

It's only a "paper loss" unless you're selling :D

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Re: Falling Prices

Post by Z3cade » Thu 12 Sep, 2013 10:29

Unless you've bought an M roadster in the last 4-5years your going to lose money.. :wink:
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Ferdinand
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Re: Falling Prices

Post by Ferdinand » Thu 12 Sep, 2013 11:30

Must be a British thing... - prices in Europe still high ;o)
Ferdinand


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dazthephot
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Re: Falling Prices

Post by dazthephot » Thu 12 Sep, 2013 13:43

You're right of course. The value of ownership always exceeds the value of resale in the used car market for us zed owners.
This one just caught my eye because when I was looking for a zed 6 years ago the 2.2 was the one I wanted but couldn't afford it at the time. I paid £7500 for my 1.9 2000 plate in spring 2007 and have cherished it continually. It's now a daily runner for my wife and she loves it. It's the longest period I've ever owned a car, that says it all.

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Re: Falling Prices

Post by Alan W » Thu 12 Sep, 2013 16:07

There are still shedloads of Z3's around and an abundance of spares so they do make an attractive and affordable buy with very good examples available from £2k up to £5k depending on condition and spec. Pound for pound they offer an amazing bang for the buck and open top motoring with stunning retro looks has never been more appealing or affordable. They are the JPS or 2.8i Capri of today, and whereas a few years ago you would buy an MGB or a Truimph Spitfire as a retirement project or a weekend car the choice these days is more between an MX5 or Z3, and although I am biased I think the latter looks far better. A few years ago MG's and Spitfire's (and Capris) were in abundance and you could pick them up as cheap as chips. Now look at the prices! I think that Z3's will bottom out at £1,500 to £3,000 and stay there for some time, but it you have a good example and look after it and keep it original it will eventually start to appreciate in value.
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Re: Falling Prices

Post by Mike Fishwick » Thu 12 Sep, 2013 16:38

My old 2.8 has - so far - cost in depreciation 15p per mile, whicv is pretty cheap, and it's not dead yet!

By the time I decide not to drive any more - say another ten years (but maybe twenty) it will probably be worth more than now, and with a lot more miles on the clock the rate will be miniscule - just compare that with people who keep buying a new car every few years . . .
A Z3 is not just for Christmas - it's for life!

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Badman gee
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Re: Falling Prices

Post by Badman gee » Thu 12 Sep, 2013 18:54

Mike, enjoy it they are great cars.

Keeping my m forever
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rayboy
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Re: Falling Prices

Post by rayboy » Fri 13 Sep, 2013 06:26

I plan to "stockpile" and use a couple of low milers in the next 12 months. It's better than money in the bank. 3 litre and M on the list. Shouldn't lose much money over 5 to 10 years ( dream on)
Would sound a bit flash if it wasn't for the fact that it would be cheaper than a well spec'd Euro/ Jap box.

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Re: Falling Prices

Post by GbnZ3 » Thu 19 Sep, 2013 21:36

I guess impecunious enthusiasts can now afford these great wee cars. I was looking for another mx5 when I saw my '99 1.9 z3 for less money than a similar age rusty arched Mazda...the BMW is a far better car in almost every respect. Maybe not so Light on its feet but it is a few hundred kilos heavier and FEELS like a better quality bit of kit. Ours has 59 k miles and a full history and I can honestly see it staying with us for a long time.

These cars values will, in fact can only, go up. Enjoy them while you can. Next time I am in a position to spend a decent wedge of money on a car I'm having a z3m roadster. Always thought I'd have a boxster, but our wee bmw is so characterful my mind has been changed...

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Re: Falling Prices

Post by RichP » Thu 19 Sep, 2013 23:54

I'm glad they fell! meant i could buy mine. 1.9 four years ago for £4000, probably worth less than £2000 now, but that means it has cost less than £10 per week! plus i have absolutely no intention of selling it, and seeing as i have taken it from 64k miles to 75k in all that time, i'm hoping to get many many more years out of it.

Its reliable, maintainable, cheap, lovely to drive, impressive, and its non-ageing looks mean that people are always surprised when they find out it's 14 years old and could be bought for £1600! oh, and they are bizzarely shiny!!

The one in this ebay ad looks like a great example, and i'm sure the new owner will come to join us on here soon!

:drive
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TitanTim
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Re: Falling Prices

Post by TitanTim » Fri 20 Sep, 2013 11:45

Mike Fishwick wrote:My old 2.8 has - so far - cost in depreciation 15p per mile, whicv is pretty cheap, and it's not dead yet!

By the time I decide not to drive any more - say another ten years (but maybe twenty) it will probably be worth more than now, and with a lot more miles on the clock the rate will be miniscule - just compare that with people who keep buying a new car every few years . . .
Technology moves on though Mike, hence why I buy new and willing to pay for it, I love all the new technology BMW cram into their cars these days :lol: . Whilst I still enjoy the Z3 it does feel and drive like an old car these days but then its 80s technology, you could call it quaint I suppose :?

Tim.
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Mike Fishwick
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Re: Falling Prices

Post by Mike Fishwick » Fri 20 Sep, 2013 13:23

Yes Tim - but as one who distrusts the idea of complication, I am happy to remain the 'eighties! As the only other car I drive is a Mk.4 Golf TDI, I do not notice any old design-related probems, unlike owners of the latest models, who will notice massive costs when their high-tech system stop working . . .
A Z3 is not just for Christmas - it's for life!

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Re: Falling Prices

Post by TitanTim » Fri 20 Sep, 2013 13:52

Mike Fishwick wrote:Yes Tim - but as one who distrusts the idea of complication, I am happy to remain the 'eighties! As the only other car I drive is a Mk.4 Golf TDI, I do not notice any old design-related probems, unlike owners of the latest models, who will notice massive costs when their high-tech system stop working . . .
New car = warranty :)

Tim.
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GbnZ3
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Re: Falling Prices

Post by GbnZ3 » Fri 20 Sep, 2013 14:34

TitanTim wrote:
Mike Fishwick wrote:My old 2.8 has - so far - cost in depreciation 15p per mile, whicv is pretty cheap, and it's not dead yet!

By the time I decide not to drive any more - say another ten years (but maybe twenty) it will probably be worth more than now, and with a lot more miles on the clock the rate will be miniscule - just compare that with people who keep buying a new car every few years . . .
Technology moves on though Mike, hence why I buy new and willing to pay for it, I love all the new technology BMW cram into their cars these days :lol: . Whilst I still enjoy the Z3 it does feel and drive like an old car these days but then its 80s technology, you could call it quaint I suppose :?

Tim.
This is why i have grown to love the z3 so quickly. I love it's old school feel. Like a (slightly) civilised old school rag top, and it's retro styling is so evocative. Then I kinda consider anything from about 1980 onwards to BE a modern car!! We bought our 1.9 for £1400 on a t plate with 2 owners and less than 60k with full mot and service history..they CANNOT get cheaper than this...and I am so glad I took the plunge instead of going for another mx5...

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Re: Falling Prices

Post by Mike Fishwick » Fri 20 Sep, 2013 15:31

New car = warranty

Older new car = extended warranty

Much older new car with starship mileage = warranty company don't want to know, and/or make exclusions

Add to that the cost - in terms of time and money - for diagnostic work on non-essential complex systems, and the potential cost of new electronic units.

Call me a Luddite of you want, but I'm happy with my £2,000 old banger, which I have deluded myself still feels like new!
A Z3 is not just for Christmas - it's for life!

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pingu
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Re: Falling Prices

Post by pingu » Fri 20 Sep, 2013 18:49

New car = MASSIVE depreciation

Old car = LESS depreciation (where Zs are now)

Much older car = APPRECIATION
Pingu

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dazthephot
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Re: Falling Prices

Post by dazthephot » Fri 20 Sep, 2013 19:42

It's good to hear the love for these great little cars. From time to time I have a mooch about the sales but have never been swayed by anything else. This is the longest I've ever owned a car and set to own it a while longer yet, mind you her indoors is using it daily so fingers crossed!!
If my money tree starts producing fruit again I'd love an Estoril Blue 2.2. We shall see.

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TitanTim
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Re: Falling Prices

Post by TitanTim » Fri 20 Sep, 2013 19:55

pingu wrote:New car = MASSIVE depreciation

Old car = LESS depreciation (where Zs are now)

Much older car = APPRECIATION
I think it depends what new car you buy, for instance with my Z4 the dealer contributed £8600 towards the OTR cost, so in affect negating any 1st year depreciation, yes it will still be losing a steady amount until the PCP is up at 4 years, but look after the car and keep the mileage low, pay the balloon payment or GFV and sell on for a profit. When I bought the MINI Cooper S new it was £17700 OTR, 4 years later I sold it privately for 13K, pretty good in my book. Yes you can buy an old car and negate depreciation but then you lose money on most things in life. You only live once so buy what you can afford and live for the day, still love the new car smell and feel, can't beat it :)

Tim.
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Re: Falling Prices

Post by Z3Jeremy » Fri 20 Sep, 2013 21:15

As a generalisation regarding Z3 ownership, you are truly missing the point by equating the ownership experience into a pence per mile depreciation equation. Enjoy the look, feel, sight, sound and smell of owning a zed, park next to an MX5, and then remind yourself....

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pingu
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Re: Falling Prices

Post by pingu » Fri 20 Sep, 2013 21:46

TitanTim wrote:
pingu wrote:New car = MASSIVE depreciation

Old car = LESS depreciation (where Zs are now)

Much older car = APPRECIATION
I think it depends what new car you buy, for instance with my Z4 the dealer contributed £8600 towards the OTR cost, so in affect negating any 1st year depreciation, yes it will still be losing a steady amount until the PCP is up at 4 years, but look after the car and keep the mileage low, pay the balloon payment or GFV and sell on for a profit. When I bought the MINI Cooper S new it was £17700 OTR, 4 years later I sold it privately for 13K, pretty good in my book. Yes you can buy an old car and negate depreciation but then you lose money on most things in life. You only live once so buy what you can afford and live for the day, still love the new car smell and feel, can't beat it :)

Tim.
If you are buying on finance of any kind, the OTR price is misleading. The cost is the deposit + monthly payments + balloon payment. It's the same as thinking that your house cost the purchase price :wink: .
Z3Jeremy wrote:As a generalisation regarding Z3 ownership, you are truly missing the point by equating the ownership experience into a pence per mile depreciation equation
We all know that it's pence per smile that count :D .
Pingu

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Re: Falling Prices

Post by PagPag » Thu 26 Sep, 2013 17:12

I might be putting myself forward for some criticism here, but one of the main reasons I bought my z3 is because of how little they are worth nowadays, this is mainly because I'm a 19 year old with a reasonably low wage. The choice was either; to spend 3 grand on a 1.2 saxo with the biggest selling point being alloy wheels, or to spend just over 2 grand on a 1.9 Z3 with low (ish) mileage and a full service history.

I'd just like to say that I made the right decision. All of my friends love the car and even though it's only the 1.9 it still smokes the lot of them from the lights (when safely accelerating to 30... :lol: )
Plus I get a great sense of satisfaction over the fact I spent a little amount of my own money on a z3 which is (in my opinion) 100 times better than the 1.2 Fiestas their parents all bought for them!

I'm planning on upgrading to the 2.2 early next year and I look forward to not having to save too much money to do so. Bang-for-buck the z3 is better than any other car on autotrader, and I have no idea how that can be considered a bad thing!

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Re: Falling Prices

Post by Rafolian » Thu 26 Sep, 2013 18:31

Pag Pag, what a very wise head on those very young shoulders! Very well said that man!

swamper
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Re: Falling Prices

Post by swamper » Thu 26 Sep, 2013 18:47

bought my M 18 month ago....and its still worth the same if not a little more now
the badness makes me do it...!

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Re: Falling Prices

Post by dazthephot » Thu 26 Sep, 2013 19:21

I gotta chuckle a bit. When I think back to when I was 19 I had a mkII Escort and some of the activities that took place in that car would be nigh on impossible in the Zed!
Great reason for buying it though, smart choice.

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TitanTim
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Re: Falling Prices

Post by TitanTim » Thu 26 Sep, 2013 20:21

pingu wrote:If you are buying on finance of any kind, the OTR price is misleading. The cost is the deposit + monthly payments + balloon payment. It's the same as thinking that your house cost the purchase price :wink: .
OTR Price of the Z4 = £33,000 minus £8,800 Dealer Contribution :lol: minus £2000 Deposit = £22,000 to pay roughly the price of an MX5, utter bargain.

Balloon payment = £12,000 for which if I decide to buy can sell on for a profit or to offset interest paid on BMWs finance at 4.9% or I can keep the Zed which will be mint and have less than 5000 miles on the clock :lol:

Also take into account my 1 Series trade in against the Z4 which was £13,500 minus £2000 Deposit = £11,500 cash in my back pocket courtesy of BMW now invested in Cash Isas.

Tim.
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pingu
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Re: Falling Prices

Post by pingu » Thu 26 Sep, 2013 22:09

TitanTim wrote:
pingu wrote:If you are buying on finance of any kind, the OTR price is misleading. The cost is the deposit + monthly payments + balloon payment. It's the same as thinking that your house cost the purchase price :wink: .
OTR Price of the Z4 = £33,000 minus £8,800 Dealer Contribution :lol: minus £2000 Deposit = £22,000 to pay roughly the price of an MX5, utter bargain.

Balloon payment = £12,000 for which if I decide to buy can sell on for a profit or to offset interest paid on BMWs finance at 4.9% or I can keep the Zed which will be mint and have less than 5000 miles on the clock :lol:

Also take into account my 1 Series trade in against the Z4 which was £13,500 minus £2000 Deposit = £11,500 cash in my back pocket courtesy of BMW now invested in Cash Isas.

Tim.
Who paid the deposit? Would there be no discount on the MX-5? How much is £22k worth per year in your ISAs (or whatever)? There is a cost to money. Either as lost investments, or interset payments.

Anyway, PagPag... good to see there are some sensible yoofs out there. When I was at college, there was a lad with an XJ-6. We always wondered how he could afford it until he told us what he paid (less than a quarter of the price of our Minis :wink: .
Pingu

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Re: Falling Prices

Post by TitanTim » Fri 27 Sep, 2013 21:05

pingu wrote:
TitanTim wrote:
pingu wrote:If you are buying on finance of any kind, the OTR price is misleading. The cost is the deposit + monthly payments + balloon payment. It's the same as thinking that your house cost the purchase price :wink: .
OTR Price of the Z4 = £33,000 minus £8,800 Dealer Contribution :lol: minus £2000 Deposit = £22,000 to pay roughly the price of an MX5, utter bargain.

Balloon payment = £12,000 for which if I decide to buy can sell on for a profit or to offset interest paid on BMWs finance at 4.9% or I can keep the Zed which will be mint and have less than 5000 miles on the clock :lol:

Also take into account my 1 Series trade in against the Z4 which was £13,500 minus £2000 Deposit = £11,500 cash in my back pocket courtesy of BMW now invested in Cash Isas.

Tim.
Who paid the deposit? Would there be no discount on the MX-5? How much is £22k worth per year in your ISAs (or whatever)? There is a cost to money. Either as lost investments, or interset payments.

Anyway, PagPag... good to see there are some sensible yoofs out there. When I was at college, there was a lad with an XJ-6. We always wondered how he could afford it until he told us what he paid (less than a quarter of the price of our Minis :wink: .
I paid the 2K deposit but remember BMW contributed £8,800. I looked at a MX5 2.0 Sport-tech which was £23,000 but Mazda would only drop by £1,500 so it was £21,500 and their APR on their PCP couldn't match BMW Select at 4.9%. Sure I could invest 22k in whatever but not have the pleasure of the E89 so where's the fun in that? :?

Tim.

P.S. I'm a yoofull 48 :P
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Re: Falling Prices

Post by gookah » Fri 27 Sep, 2013 21:54

TitanTim wrote: Tim.

P.S. I'm a yoofull 48 :P

48 my ar@e... :D
I reckon it's dyslexia
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Z3 1.9 Sport Progress Journal (Wifey's)

I have an element of 'M-styling' on my car, If that's a good enough reason for the manufacturers to adorn a 320 with the M badge, then its certainly a good enough reason for me..

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Re: Falling Prices

Post by Z3cade » Fri 27 Sep, 2013 22:20

You could have bought an M coupe and M roadster for 22k and had 0% depreciation.. :P
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Re: Falling Prices

Post by Z3cade » Fri 27 Sep, 2013 22:23

Gookah.. Like the new sig pic :sunny
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TitanTim
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Re: Falling Prices

Post by TitanTim » Fri 27 Sep, 2013 22:24

Z3cade wrote:You could have bought an M coupe and M roadster for 22k and had 0% depreciation.. :P
But saved £100,000 in fuel costs :wink:

I've embarrased Gookah to change his sig pic :lol:

Tim.
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Re: Falling Prices

Post by Z3cade » Fri 27 Sep, 2013 22:46

Tim you've only saved on fuel because your zeds never leave the garage... :P
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pingu
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Re: Falling Prices

Post by pingu » Fri 27 Sep, 2013 23:11

TitanTim wrote:I paid the 2K deposit but remember BMW contributed £8,800. I looked at a MX5 2.0 Sport-tech which was £23,000 but Mazda would only drop by £1,500 so it was £21,500 and their APR on their PCP couldn't match BMW Select at 4.9%. Sure I could invest 22k in whatever but not have the pleasure of the E89 so where's the fun in that? :?

Tim.

P.S. I'm a yoofull 48 :P
I reckon your car will be yours on your driveway at the end of year 3 fo £25,287.80. Using 60% of original OTR price (which is very generous), the car would be worth £19,800. So your car will be worth £5.5k less than you paid for it. To be honest I think that you have done well, but the point I was trying to make is that you could avoid any deprication losses by not buying new.
Pingu

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Re: Falling Prices

Post by gookah » Sat 28 Sep, 2013 10:52

Z3cade wrote:Gookah.. Like the new sig pic :sunny

Thanks Liam,
Had to get rid of that old Z4, that no-one likes...... :roflmao:
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Z3 2.8 Progress Journal (Mine)
Z3 1.9 Sport Progress Journal (Wifey's)

I have an element of 'M-styling' on my car, If that's a good enough reason for the manufacturers to adorn a 320 with the M badge, then its certainly a good enough reason for me..

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Re: Falling Prices

Post by gookah » Sat 28 Sep, 2013 10:53

TitanTim wrote:
Z3cade wrote:You could have bought an M coupe and M roadster for 22k and had 0% depreciation.. :P
But saved £100,000 in fuel costs :wink:

I've embarrased Gookah to change his sig pic :lol:

Tim.

You did indeed, it's all down to you Tim.... :thumb:
Image

Z3 2.8 Progress Journal (Mine)
Z3 1.9 Sport Progress Journal (Wifey's)

I have an element of 'M-styling' on my car, If that's a good enough reason for the manufacturers to adorn a 320 with the M badge, then its certainly a good enough reason for me..

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TitanTim
Joined: Mon 23 Jun, 2008 19:56
Posts: 5488

  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Stafford

Re: Falling Prices

Post by TitanTim » Sat 28 Sep, 2013 11:24

pingu wrote:
TitanTim wrote:I paid the 2K deposit but remember BMW contributed £8,800. I looked at a MX5 2.0 Sport-tech which was £23,000 but Mazda would only drop by £1,500 so it was £21,500 and their APR on their PCP couldn't match BMW Select at 4.9%. Sure I could invest 22k in whatever but not have the pleasure of the E89 so where's the fun in that? :?

Tim.

P.S. I'm a yoofull 48 :P
I reckon your car will be yours on your driveway at the end of year 3 fo £25,287.80. Using 60% of original OTR price (which is very generous), the car would be worth £19,800. So your car will be worth £5.5k less than you paid for it. To be honest I think that you have done well, but the point I was trying to make is that you could avoid any deprication losses by not buying new.
Its down to whether you want shiny new or used, I prefer shiny new while I can afford it and love the new car feel and plus I'm ridiculously fussy with second hand cars. :lol: however buying secondhand you still lose out on depreciation you just losing to a lesser mark, e.g. my Z3 was 11K at 7 years old it worth what 4K at a stretch now so whether new or old if you don't wish too lose money buy a push bike :lol:

Tim.
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2001 Z3 1.9 Roadster Sport - 2012 Z4 sDrive 2.0 M Sport

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Badman gee
Joined: Sun 14 Nov, 2010 10:45
Posts: 2299

  M roadster S50

Re: Falling Prices

Post by Badman gee » Sat 28 Sep, 2013 13:23

It's all about timing.

I won't lose anything on my m. Possibly make a little!
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The 'BEAST' 666

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Gazza
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Posts: 9165

  M roadster S54
Location: East London/Essex

Re: Falling Prices

Post by Gazza » Sat 28 Sep, 2013 15:55

I won't lose a penny on mine coz I ain't sellin' :D
Gazza

"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you"

S54 M roadster Image Mustang Fastback, BMW Z1, BMW M3 CSL.

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TitanTim
Joined: Mon 23 Jun, 2008 19:56
Posts: 5488

  Z3 roadster 1.9i
Location: Stafford

Re: Falling Prices

Post by TitanTim » Sat 28 Sep, 2013 16:40

Next oil crisis anything with more than 3 cyls with be worthless or you will have to convert to LPG :lol:

Tim.
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2001 Z3 1.9 Roadster Sport - 2012 Z4 sDrive 2.0 M Sport

Rafolian
Joined: Wed 27 Feb, 2013 08:41
Posts: 547

  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: Falling Prices

Post by Rafolian » Sat 28 Sep, 2013 17:20

If there's another oil crisis, it would be a waste of time converting to LPG. As I'm sure it would be no longer cheap then!

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