After Nearly 6 Years It Had to Happen ... All Sorted

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Zed Carer
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After Nearly 6 Years It Had to Happen ... All Sorted

Post by Zed Carer » Tue 11 Feb, 2014 15:08

After nearly 6 years of vitually trouble free ownership (where has the time gone???) with only service costs except for welding a broken exhaust bracket and a new radiator I've finally had the airbag and ASC/ABS lights on :head:

Thanks to corky who came over with his reset tool and got rid of the airbag light :cheers and the aceman who brought over Carsoft to diagnose the ACS/ABS fault(s). I had managed to remove one sensor and that cleared the lights for all of 10 miles and although Carsoft couldn't read the ASC/ABS fault codes it did reset them :shrug but they came back the next day. Just had the codes read by the indie I use and the error code is for the ABS pump - did try a new relay but that didn't clear the error code.

So now looking for somewhere to get my abs pump refurbished rather than pay BMW ££££££££ for a new one. One issue is that the part no. in RealOEM is different from the part no. on the actual pump in the car (34.51 1164 896 & 897) and RealOEM does not recognise the 896 & 897 part nos. :head: If anyone knows of / has used somewhere to refurbish an ABS pump please could you post the details - not that urgent yet as the MoT is not due until 28 March.
Last edited by Zed Carer on Fri 14 Mar, 2014 16:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Robert T
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Re: After Nearly 6 Years It Had to Happen ...

Post by Robert T » Tue 11 Feb, 2014 15:47

This sounds a familiar story from when I helped MikeR with his here: http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopi ... =5&t=35695

His turned out to be the control board and he removed it and sent it off to a company called ECUTesting for reconditioning. Some part numbers are also mentioned in the thread, and I remember we had fun matching them up to RealOEM.

Hope you get it sorted.

Cheers R.
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Re: After Nearly 6 Years It Had to Happen ...

Post by bertiejaffa » Tue 11 Feb, 2014 16:04

I have them on on my Zed, they have been on (and off) for the last 18 months and I will soon be sending my ABS unit off to ECUtesting for them to refurbish it. This way you dont spend £000s on the BMW item, and it ensures that the unit will be coded to your car when you get it back.

It was fun for my MOT.... the car passed with everything fine apart from this light, had to drive it around for a couple of days until it went off then took it back for the re-test.

I have to admit I dont notice the difference with it on or off, although I do know that the ABS isnt operational whilst the light is on. That said, I have not had to slam on either
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Re: After Nearly 6 Years It Had to Happen ...

Post by Zed Carer » Tue 11 Feb, 2014 17:30

Just found (and bought) one off EBay - its from a 2000 E46 323 but its got the right part nos - £45 + Postage but I've emailed the seller to ask if I can collect as its in Leeds. Quote from the garage for fitting is £60 + VAT - at least the car will be driveable and I've still got the option of getting my original one refurbished.
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Re: After Nearly 6 Years It Had to Happen ...

Post by Brian H » Tue 11 Feb, 2014 17:54

From the posts I have read Bill the electronic part can be swapped on its own without the need to swap the whole pump. Hope it works out OK for you.

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Re: After Nearly 6 Years It Had to Happen ...

Post by bertiejaffa » Tue 11 Feb, 2014 19:19

Does that include the recoding to your car?
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Re: After Nearly 6 Years It Had to Happen ...

Post by Zed Carer » Tue 11 Feb, 2014 20:23

bertiejaffa wrote:Does that include the recoding to your car?
Yes the price I asked for was for "removing existing, fitting replacement and recoding" - he didn't seem to think that recoding would be an issue.
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Re: After Nearly 6 Years It Had to Happen ...

Post by bertiejaffa » Tue 11 Feb, 2014 21:14

Zed Carer wrote:
bertiejaffa wrote:Does that include the recoding to your car?
Yes the price I asked for was for "removing existing, fitting replacement and recoding" - he didn't seem to think that recoding would be an issue.

Excellent - I hope it works, if it does I will follow your route rather than having mine re-furbed. Can you please ask when you pick the car up after you have it done if the recode step was actually required? I do find it hard to think that it will - be based on the size of the ABS control unit - I struggle to think it is actually that clever but you never know. The reason I ask is that I have a couple of choices for my indie garage, but I am not 100% sure they would have the software if a recode was required (I may be doing them a dis-service saying that though!).

It will be great if this is the solution, I noticed another thread the other day that had the ABS light on too so this would be a cheaper alternative.
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Re: After Nearly 6 Years It Had to Happen ...

Post by Zed Carer » Tue 11 Feb, 2014 22:27

bertiejaffa wrote:Excellent - I hope it works, if it does I will follow your route rather than having mine re-furbed. Can you please ask when you pick the car up after you have it done if the recode step was actually required? I do find it hard to think that it will - be based on the size of the ABS control unit - I struggle to think it is actually that clever but you never know. The reason I ask is that I have a couple of choices for my indie garage, but I am not 100% sure they would have the software if a recode was required (I may be doing them a dis-service saying that though!).

It will be great if this is the solution, I noticed another thread the other day that had the ABS light on too so this would be a cheaper alternative.
The garage I've been using for about 4 years now is a member of the Bosch Car Service group and has their diagnostic equipment. It took a bit of time to get the code(s) from the ABS/ASC because at first he was using the OBDII socket rather than the 20pin socket in the engine bay.

We tried a new ABS relay just to make sure that it was the pump and not the relay and then discussed the options - refurb or 2nd hand unit. When I emailed details of the one in Leeds at £45 his reaction was that there wasn't that much to lose by going for it. I'll post the result after its been done and what work was actually required.
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Re: After Nearly 6 Years It Had to Happen ...

Post by bertiejaffa » Wed 12 Feb, 2014 11:46

Zed Carer wrote:
bertiejaffa wrote:Excellent - I hope it works, if it does I will follow your route rather than having mine re-furbed. Can you please ask when you pick the car up after you have it done if the recode step was actually required? I do find it hard to think that it will - be based on the size of the ABS control unit - I struggle to think it is actually that clever but you never know. The reason I ask is that I have a couple of choices for my indie garage, but I am not 100% sure they would have the software if a recode was required (I may be doing them a dis-service saying that though!).

It will be great if this is the solution, I noticed another thread the other day that had the ABS light on too so this would be a cheaper alternative.
The garage I've been using for about 4 years now is a member of the Bosch Car Service group and has their diagnostic equipment. It took a bit of time to get the code(s) from the ABS/ASC because at first he was using the OBDII socket rather than the 20pin socket in the engine bay.

We tried a new ABS relay just to make sure that it was the pump and not the relay and then discussed the options - refurb or 2nd hand unit. When I emailed details of the one in Leeds at £45 his reaction was that there wasn't that much to lose by going for it. I'll post the result after its been done and what work was actually required.

Cheers mate - I am in Stalybridge, so might be worth my while doing a quick drive over the hills to your garage if it works.... only 30/40 miles away so will be a good run out and worth it.... waiting with anticipation. Cheers Lee
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Re: After Nearly 6 Years It Had to Happen ... Update 14/02/1

Post by Zed Carer » Fri 14 Feb, 2014 14:27

Collected the ABS pump bought off EBay this morning and took it to the garage.

First try was the 2nd hand replacement pump with the original electronic controller to see if that worked as then there would be no need for any re-coding - failed with both the ABS and ASC lights still on.

Second try was the complete replacement assembly (pump and electronics) and the Bosch diagnostic could talk to the ABS and that was reset without any problem but there was no communication with the ASC module so that light is still on :head: :head: :head: Need to check whether this is MoT Failure or just and Advisory?

So it looks like the original error code for the ABS Pump was correct as the replacement unit cleared the ABS fault and that would also indicate that there is probably nothing wrong with the ABS relay or wheel sensors. There are plenty of posts where both ABS and ASC lights were on, and some where it was just the ABS light but I don't remember seeing any previous posts where it was just the ASC light that was on?????? YEs - did try the ASC switch.

Just need to sort out where to go next with this?????

a) If it is not a MoT Failure then just do nothing further.

b) Take the car to BMW to see if it just a recoding issue but no doubt it would be ££££ just to be told what the problem is and then more £££ to have it fixed.

c) The garage has found someone who can repair the electronics but not the actual pump so I could get a quote for having the original unit tested / repaired and put that back in the car. The issue here could be if the car doesn't recognise it and it needed coding for the ASC

Any thoughts welcome.
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Re: After Nearly 6 Years It Had to Happen ...

Post by Brian H » Fri 14 Feb, 2014 15:35

Bill,

Did you re-code the new (secondhand) unit to your car. My understanding is that there has been a few different variations of ASC/DSC along the way.

Brian

Edit: does the breaker by any chance have the VIN on the car being broken so that you could pop it in here to see what system the donor car had?

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Re: After Nearly 6 Years It Had to Happen ...

Post by bertiejaffa » Fri 14 Feb, 2014 16:29

Hi - it is definitely a failure while the light is on. My MOT was in August and the car passed everything except this light. They checked the sensors and we got it down to this ABS module fault, as I say, after failure you have 7-14 days to take it back for free re-test.... 3 days after the MOT the light went out.... I drove it straight round and got the certificate before it came back on (half a mile down the road!)

As per Brian's comments, I am sure the unit has to be coded to the car which is why I was going to bite the bullet and send mine to ECUTESTING
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Re: After Nearly 6 Years It Had to Happen ...

Post by Zed Carer » Fri 14 Feb, 2014 16:42

Brian H wrote:Bill,

Did you re-code the new (secondhand) unit to your car. My understanding is that there has been a few different variations of ASC/DSC along the way.

Brian

Edit: does the breaker by any chance have the VIN on the car being broken so that you could pop it in here to see what system the donor car had?
The Bosch software re-coded for the ABS but couldn't re-code for the ASC. All the numbers on the replacement unit were the same as those on the original unit. Also when I cross-checked the part number shown on RealOEM for my Z3 it was showing as being fitted to a 2000 323i although the actual unit fitted has different part nos from those shown on RealOEM - for both vehicles. I will email the seller to see if they have the VIN number.
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Re: After Nearly 6 Years It Had to Happen ...

Post by jhb1 » Fri 14 Feb, 2014 16:51

bertiejaffa wrote:Hi - it is definitely a failure while the light is on. My MOT was in August and the car passed everything except this light. They checked the sensors and we got it down to this ABS module fault, as I say, after failure you have 7-14 days to take it back for free re-test.... 3 days after the MOT the light went out.... I drove it straight round and got the certificate before it came back on (half a mile down the road!)

As per Brian's comments, I am sure the unit has to be coded to the car which is why I was going to bite the bullet and send mine to ECUTESTING
Exactly same happened to me. 2 days before MOT due intermittent issue with ABS light. Was ok during inital MOT but failed on emissions so booked back in to fix and re test. Passed on emission but ABS refusing to go out so fail.
Replaced sensors and no change. Garage spent three weeks trying to sort and gave up. They felt so bad they coulnt help I got a good discount on work done and the offer of a free MOT when corrected as I had gone over the 2 week period.
Went to collect her and wanted to hear what the new back box sounded like so gave her some beans on the way home and ABS light reset has hasnt been an issue since. Took her straight back and got them to check it for retest. Couldnt believe it. Maybe she didnt like being left there that long. Getting more difficult as she gets older :)

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Re: After Nearly 6 Years It Had to Happen ...

Post by Zed Carer » Fri 14 Feb, 2014 20:01

After further research came across This Post for re-coding an E39 ABS/ACS.

The second post is interesting: "You need NCS/NCS Expert - New Coding System. This may have come as part of the Ediabas/INPA software, depending on your source." So the questions are: Have any of the INPA users got the NCS/NCS Expert? And have they used it yet? For around £35 it might be worth getting a copy as long as I was sure that it contains NCS/NCS Expert.
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Re: After Nearly 6 Years It Had to Happen ...

Post by Jonco » Sat 15 Feb, 2014 10:23

Zed Carer wrote:.......... Have any of the INPA users got the NCS/NCS Expert? And have they used it yet? For around £35 it might be worth getting a copy as long as I was sure that it contains NCS/NCS Expert.
NCS Expert was included in the BMtechnics package (have not got round to using mine yet) but as they are no longer doing business you are stuck on getting a new issue. There may be some secondhand kits for sale on the web

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Re: After Nearly 6 Years It Had to Happen ...

Post by Zed Carer » Sun 16 Feb, 2014 20:19

Jonco wrote:
Zed Carer wrote:.......... Have any of the INPA users got the NCS/NCS Expert? And have they used it yet? For around £35 it might be worth getting a copy as long as I was sure that it contains NCS/NCS Expert.
NCS Expert was included in the BMtechnics package (have not got round to using mine yet) but as they are no longer doing business you are stuck on getting a new issue. There may be some secondhand kits for sale on the web
Thanks - unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any BMtechnics packages being advertised at the moment but from other forums I've found two fairly local BMW Indies that do simple re-coding while you wait. TBH I wasn't looking forward to re-coding it myself - too afraid of getting it wrong.

During some of the searches/reading I found This Supplier - they seem to have quite good reviews so I might look at getting this in the future.
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Re: After Nearly 6 Years It Had to Happen ...

Post by Jonco » Sun 16 Feb, 2014 21:08

Zed Carer wrote:......... TBH I wasn't looking forward to re-coding it myself - too afraid of getting it wrong......
If you were closer you could have tried with my kit - but that would have been a journey in the dark!!! Agreed -better to play safe.

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Re: After Nearly 6 Years It Had to Happen ...

Post by aceman » Sun 16 Feb, 2014 22:06

Hi Bill,

Sorry what we did didn't last which is a shame. I think the reason we couldn't read the abs module is probably due to the fault and not communicating with anything and the error was cleared as that resides in the ecu so because the abs module has stopped communicating with the ecu is what is throwing up the error. That link to the cable you found looks almost identical to the BMtechnic kit which I have nearly bought in the past with it being compatible with latest versions of windows, may be tempted with this one myself.

I think it sounds like you now need the ASC module pairing up to the new ABS unit which is probably the coding part everyone is talking about. It will be interesting to see what is required to do tis when you finally figure it out, one for the knowledgebase for sure.
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Re: After Nearly 6 Years It Had to Happen ...

Post by Zed Carer » Sun 16 Feb, 2014 23:39

aceman wrote:Hi Bill,

I think it sounds like you now need the ASC module pairing up to the new ABS unit which is probably the coding part everyone is talking about. It will be interesting to see what is required to do tis when you finally figure it out, one for the knowledgebase for sure.
Hi Ian,

The lights came back on the next day and were intermittent. When the replacement unit was fitted the ABS lights went out straight away - possibly because you had cleared any previous error codes.

The problem is in some ways quite a simple one - the replacement ABS/ACS unit cam from a 99 E46 323i. When first installed in a new vehicle the ACS ECU gets a copy of the vehicle type and spec (3 lines of data including the VIN) from the main ECU - so after much reading all (???) that is required is to take a copy of the type and spec coding in the ECU in the Z3 and copy it to the ACS ECU.

Apparently (according to posts on bmwland) the NCS/NCS Expert has a semi-automatic function; e.g. select read from the main ECU then select the unit you want to copy it to - as far as I've read so far it appears that once coded to an e36 2.8 Z3 it can switched between similar vehicles without any further coding????

With a bit of luck the total cost for the original diagnostics, buying the replacement unit, fitting the unit and re-coding should be circa £180 which is a lot less than a new unit from BMW - I could also send my old unit away and get it refurbished and keep it either as a spare or until someone else has a similar problem.
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Re: After Nearly 6 Years It Had to Happen ... All Sorted

Post by Zed Carer » Fri 14 Mar, 2014 16:51

I didn't get chance to sort out the re-coding before we went away but finally got it done today at Quarry Motors in Sheffield. Re-coded in less than 15 mins then a drive round checking that a) the ASC light stayed off; and b) the ASC could be turned off/on with the switch. The re-coding was fairly straightforward - copy the data from the car's ECU and then copy to the ASC's ECU. So the final costs (incl VAT) are:

Original diagnostic: £42
EBay pump: £45
Fitting pump: £66
Re-coding: £42
Plus fuel for about 100 miles.
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Re: After Nearly 6 Years It Had to Happen ... All Sorted

Post by roadvoyager1 » Fri 10 Apr, 2015 20:25

Sounds like I am having almost identical problems to those described by Zed Carer. Replaced the ABS pump and control module as mine was intermittently showing both ABS and ASC light. With replacement unit, from very similar spec 2.8 Z3 built 4 months before mine, ABS light is OFF but ASC is continually ON. Can any of the INPA owners confirm that this coding can be done with it and if so how easy it is? Thank you

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