MOT Failure

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Pierrick
Joined: Fri 31 Aug, 2012 23:47
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

MOT Failure

Post by Pierrick » Fri 14 Mar, 2014 12:53

Hi everyone, had a nasty surprise yesterday!

I've been in France for a few month and my MOT has run out last week, so when I came back yesterday I went straight to the MOT center.
I knew there was some problems on the suspentions but didn't expect this:


Reasons for refusal:
"Offside front lower suspention arm has excessive play in a ball joint"

"Offside rear coil spring BROKEN"!!!

"Exhaust emissions Lambda reading after 2nd fast idle outside specified limits"

So I ordered 2 sachs rear springs and shocks from euro car parts,one right front arm and a lambda sensor.

Not sure about the lambda sensor... if you have more ideas you are welcome!
I also bought a new DISA valve as I knew there was something wrong with it but it's quite expensive so if someone has one in stock I'll return it...
And this afternoon I'l try to get the right bolts etc... from BMW or somewhere else.

I moved yesterday in Milton Keynes and I don't have an internet connection yet... (I'm writing from work).
Also I never changed any shocks or springs in my life, but even I think I'll be albe to do it, I may need help.

If anyone is in the Milton Keynes area and is available for any help/advice it would be great.
You can contact me on my mobile (07564024000) as I don't have internet at home.


And as well on the advisoty items on the MOT:
Corrosion and hole in the nearside seal! Actually the MOT guy punch the hole himself when he saw the paint was "bubbling"! Bast***!! I knew there was some rust but didn't expect this! So I'll be looking for a new seal cover soon.
And on the other side no hole but some corrosion as well.

So there is a bit of work to be done over the week end, knowing this is my only car, so I need to fix it as quickly as possible.

Thanks in advance for you advices and help.

beerbelly
Joined: Fri 07 Feb, 2014 20:12
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Re: MOT Failure

Post by beerbelly » Fri 14 Mar, 2014 15:14

rear springs and shocks are easy mate half an hour per side. as for the lambda readings a new airfilter a dose of injector cleaner and a good thrash out may sort that .and a well aimed headbut to the bridge of the testers nose for poking a hole through a non structural panel would be my course of action :evil:

Del
Joined: Sat 19 Nov, 2011 18:35
Posts: 2121

  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: MOT Failure

Post by Del » Fri 14 Mar, 2014 15:41

Hi Pierrick

Sorry to hear the news.

For the rear shocks - see the attached. You need a “breaker bar” to undue the bottom 18mm bolts which are torqued to approx. 80nm? from memory. The hardest part is removing the piece of carpet behind the seats to undue the top mount bolts which are fairly lightly torqued 20nm?.

As you are disconnecting the bottom 18mm shock absorber bolts you are halfway through the job to replace the independent rear coil springs. The only other bit required to replace the spring is to undue the 13mm bolt holding the drop-link to the trailing arm. With the car jacked up you’ll find that all you need to do is push down slightly on the hub and you will have sufficient room to just pull out the old spring and replace with the new – make sure they are seated properly on the pads.

The MOT lambda reading does not necessarily mean that the actual lambda sensor is faulty. As said already, if you are unsure about things like plugs, air filter etc. I would start by changing those and the injector cleaner will do no harm. A bad lambda (too much O2 in the exhaust gas) reading can sometimes indicate a slight exhaust leak somewhere e.g. at a joint. Have you done any exhaust work recently?

As said already, the sills are just cosmetic covers – they are not structural.

http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14703
http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25177

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BladeRunner919
Joined: Fri 17 Feb, 2012 20:18
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: MOT Failure

Post by BladeRunner919 » Fri 14 Mar, 2014 16:15

Del wrote: The only other bit required to replace the spring is to undue the 13mm bolt holding the drop-link to the trailing arm. With the car jacked up you’ll find that all you need to do is push down slightly on the hub and you will have sufficient room to just pull out the old spring and replace with the new – make sure they are seated properly on the pads.
Not forgetting to release the handbrake too, as that can stop the suspension dropping fully!
Last edited by BladeRunner919 on Mon 17 Mar, 2014 16:54, edited 2 times in total.

Pierrick
Joined: Fri 31 Aug, 2012 23:47
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: MOT Failure

Post by Pierrick » Mon 17 Mar, 2014 14:07

Hi guys, thanks for your replies.

I recieved the parts today.
The springs are a bit "bigger" than the originals. When I say bigger, I mean, the "wire" is bigger... if you understand.
I went to BMW to ask the price for new rubber mounts and the guy told me there was 3 sizes for springs with 5mm, 7,5mm and another size.
My rubber mounts are ok, do I need to change them because of the size of the springs???

I have also the new shocks and top mounts, no problem to change these. The old ones are allready out.

Then at the front I'm having some trouble to take the rubber mount off the arm (you know which one I mean? the one hold by two bolts on the car).

So I bought a new one to put on the new arm (which I recieved today).

If anyone has a good technique to take the old bush off the old arm, I may keep it to put on the new arm, saving a bit of money...

And one last question, the bush I'm talking about seems to be glued on... as it doesn't moove at all and on the Bentley manual they say you have only 30 minutes to fit the arm after fitting the bush onto the arm! I don't know why! Does that mean it need to be glued or something??!!of glue on the Bentley manual!

Thanks for you help.
I'll be back on the forum tonight after work.

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BladeRunner919
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: MOT Failure

Post by BladeRunner919 » Mon 17 Mar, 2014 16:58

[quote="Pierrick"
I went to BMW to ask the price for new rubber mounts and the guy told me there was 3 sizes for springs with 5mm, 7,5mm and another size.
My rubber mounts are ok, do I need to change them because of the size of the springs???[/quote]

Not unless they're damaged - the different sizes are to adjust the ride height -I'm toying with removing mine completely just to drop the back slightly. Opinion on whether this causes any noise is divided.

Pierrick wrote:
Then at the front I'm having some trouble to take the rubber mount off the arm (you know which one I mean? the one hold by two bolts on the car).
So I bought a new one to put on the new arm (which I recieved today).
If anyone has a good technique to take the old bush off the old arm, I may keep it to put on the new arm, saving a bit of money...
I'd replace them with powerflex bushes if I were you. The oem ones are rubbish (in my opinion, of course!)

Pierrick
Joined: Fri 31 Aug, 2012 23:47
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: MOT Failure

Post by Pierrick » Mon 17 Mar, 2014 17:31

If you can find where to buy powerflex bushes for a small price and get them delivered within a few days why not...

And as well I need to be sure I can fit them myself! As I don't have much tools!

Pierrick
Joined: Fri 31 Aug, 2012 23:47
Posts: 480

  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: MOT Failure

Post by Pierrick » Mon 17 Mar, 2014 17:47

To answer to del, I changed my plugs last year, so I don't think there is any problem with the plugs but i'll give them a good clean.
The air filter is quite new as well but it's cheap so i'll change it.
I also have a fuel filter that I never fitted, I'll try to do this as soon as I can.
And finally I didn't touch at the exaust for quite a while but the mot guy told my there was a broken fixation, so I'll have a good look to make sure there is no leak as well... lets hope!

And for the lambda sensor, how nany are they? My vin number is LD82913 but where I look at différents places I don't find the same drawings and on euro car parts it's not quite clear how many sensor there is and where they go...

For the moment I have a bosch sensor (LS05 0258986505).

Thanks for your help.

Pierrick
Joined: Fri 31 Aug, 2012 23:47
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: MOT Failure

Post by Pierrick » Mon 17 Mar, 2014 18:01

One more thing, what kind of injector cleaner do you suggest?

Mugs
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: MOT Failure

Post by Mugs » Mon 17 Mar, 2014 18:18

the rear bushes should come off with a bearing puller.
be careful with the Eurocarparts rear springs - i have a set and they sit too high ( i think due to the thicker wire) and i am having to replace them with genuine ones to get the ride height correct again.
if you replace the springs and find one side of the car is sitting higher than the other (1" in my case) then buy the thicker rubber mount for the lower side to even it out. (just do the rears and the fronts will come good when the rears are done). i made my own 'spacer' and it took 15mm to even out the height but it looks a lot better for it.
PS the Eurocarparts shocks and front springs are ok and the top mounts from ebay seem to be good too. i recently replaced all my shocks, springs and put on poly bushes on the rear of the front control arms - this made a huge difference to the way the car handled and steered. just a shame about their rear springs really.

Del
Joined: Sat 19 Nov, 2011 18:35
Posts: 2121

  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: MOT Failure

Post by Del » Mon 17 Mar, 2014 20:26

You have a M44 1.9 engine. This engine was not OBD II compliant and only had 1 lambda sensor which is pre-cat. The better Bosch one is 0258003559. This is a "direct fit" one which means it just plugs into the car's ECU loom as does the existing one. The type you have mentioned is a bit cheaper but is a "universal fit" one which means you have to cut and join wires. Personally, I would make life easier with a direct fit one. They can be difficult to get out - I struggled a bit with mine. The sensor is underneath the car under the plastic "belly plate" about

When I changed my front wishbones (lower control arms) I deliberately bought ones with the "lollipop" bushes already attached - as I said above, when doing work as a DIYer I try to make life as easy as possible.

Pierrick
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: MOT Failure

Post by Pierrick » Tue 18 Mar, 2014 18:58

Thanks for your reply mugs.
I managed to do the right rear yesterday and I you said it seems like it seats very high!! I bought 2 springs and two new shocks so it will be even but I hope it won't look to bad!!!
I have a set of spare lowering springs bought from Dallan on this forum a few month ago, I may fit them later on.

Other than that I have meyle top mounts for the rear and KYB for the front, so the quality should be ok.


And Del, I reciveved a message earlier telling me that UPS delivered a package today so I think this is the lollipop bush. I'll fit it on the new arm and this should do the job.
No one knows if it should be "glued" on?

And for the lambda sensor, I'll probably buy another one and send back the one I allready have.

Thanks for your help. I'll try do finish the front right tonight.

I'll keep you updated on the progress

Pierrick
Joined: Fri 31 Aug, 2012 23:47
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: MOT Failure

Post by Pierrick » Tue 18 Mar, 2014 19:05

Just found this:
http://www.worldcarparts.co.uk/Store/ta ... fault.aspx

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LAMBDA-O2-OXY ... 0213941219

Are they the ont you are talking about del?

Seems to be cheap for Bosch sensors...

Del
Joined: Sat 19 Nov, 2011 18:35
Posts: 2121

  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: MOT Failure

Post by Del » Tue 18 Mar, 2014 19:43

Those prices are incredibly cheap for Bosch sensors. I think a lot of these advertisements are deliberately vague and arguably misleading - I think they are saying that they are selling unbranded sensors which are designed to be a direct swap for the Bosch sensor quoted.

The Lollipop bushes aren't glued to the wishbone (control arm). They are just a very tight fit. You are not supposed to saturate them in any oil or grease as this could react badly with the rubber compound. If I was trying this at home, I would cut the old ones off and put the new ones in hot water (to try and soften them a bit) and perhaps use a tiny bit of washing up liquid. I did this with my rear droplinks which are similar in that they just push onto the anti-roll bar.

I suspect garages use a "pulling tool" and a pneumatic power wrench.

Bought my (direct fit) Bosch lambda from Carparts4less last September - cost about £65.

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BladeRunner919
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: MOT Failure

Post by BladeRunner919 » Wed 19 Mar, 2014 08:09

Mugs wrote: be careful with the Eurocarparts rear springs - i have a set and they sit too high ( i think due to the thicker wire) and i am having to replace them with genuine ones to get the ride height correct again.
That's interesting - I have Sachs springs that I got from EuroCarParts and they sit high too. It's nothing to do with EuroCarParts, of course, as they are made by Sachs, but I'd be interested to know if swapping yours again does cure the problem.

Pierrick
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: MOT Failure

Post by Pierrick » Wed 19 Mar, 2014 18:54

Tnaks again for the reply guys.
I'm still at work so have only a few minutes.

I finished the front yesterday, no problem to fit the lolippop bush with a bit of vasaline ( i've been told vaseline is better than other greases as it is non petroleum and won't do any harm to the rubber, so I now have one in my tool box!).

I'll try to do the rear left tonight or tomorrow and then it should be ok for the mot.

i'll keep the lambda sensor I have as it seems to be quite simple to connect the wire, and with a new air filter lets hope it will be fine.

Then later I'll do the sills and the back of the exaust seems quite rotten too...

Del
Joined: Sat 19 Nov, 2011 18:35
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: MOT Failure

Post by Del » Wed 19 Mar, 2014 19:31

Sounds like you are making good progress :thumb:

Pierrick
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: MOT Failure

Post by Pierrick » Sat 22 Mar, 2014 21:37

High everyone. Skocks and springs are done.
The rear sits a bit high but that's the way it is!

Now I have to sort out the pollution problem. As I said I bought a lambda sensor, I took the old one off but as del says I need to solder the wires with the new one!
So I'll order another one from car parts for less with the right connector and fit it later. I don't think the problem comes from here anyway, as the reading on the MOT paper seems ok but just a bit out of the limits.

So... I changed the air filter, checked all the plugs (they are only a year old) and now want to clean the injectors, put some 98 petrol and give it a good blast.


I'll go to halfords tomorrow to buy some injector cleaner, which one would you recommand?
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stor ... _langId_-1

Thanks for your help.

Del
Joined: Sat 19 Nov, 2011 18:35
Posts: 2121

  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: MOT Failure

Post by Del » Sun 23 Mar, 2014 11:09

I've just used either STP or Redex petrol engine injector cleaner (approx £5). My son raves about the more expensive Slick 50.
They do make a difference where the injectors are dirty - but are a waste of money where everything is already nice and clean.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQN-0zvZNbY

Pierrick
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: MOT Failure

Post by Pierrick » Sun 23 Mar, 2014 11:54

All right, let's go for redex then...

Pierrick
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: MOT Failure

Post by Pierrick » Mon 24 Mar, 2014 23:15

MOT booked for tomorrow...

Pierrick
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: MOT Failure

Post by Pierrick » Mon 24 Mar, 2014 23:44

Just a question, is it better if I put shell V power before the MOT than normal petrol?

Just to avoir fail the pollution test again...

bertiejaffa
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  M roadster S50
Location: Manchester

Re: MOT Failure

Post by bertiejaffa » Tue 25 Mar, 2014 11:16

I usually put better fuel in before the MOT, whether it helps or not I dont know but it can't hurt... More importantly though is to take it for a good blast first... clear it out and get rid of any stale muck
Here come the girls.....
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Pierrick
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: MOT Failure

Post by Pierrick » Tue 25 Mar, 2014 19:06

My worst fear came to life!

I couldn't do a retest as its quite far to go back to Portsmouth from milton Keynes. So I had a complete new MOT.

Still the same problem with the lambda reading, so I think I'm good for a new cataliser... it looks like new from the outside... what can I do???

And I'll have to change the back box very quickly as the pipe leaks badly!

Plus they found new thinks... number plate light not working and a break hose is rubbing on the "hard" break pipe just next to it.
They are simple fix so no problem with this.


So really need help on that one...need to find an exaust very quickly.

Alan W
Joined: Thu 20 Jun, 2013 11:56
Posts: 668

  Z3 roadster 2.8
Location: Bexley, Kent UK

Re: MOT Failure

Post by Alan W » Tue 25 Mar, 2014 19:32

Dipetane is the only thing that will reduce emmisions

http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopi ... =5&t=39052
1999 facelit Z3 Roadster 2.8 Auto in Cosmos Black aka 'Gloria'
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Del
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: MOT Failure

Post by Del » Tue 25 Mar, 2014 19:52

I had problems with my Cat last year and it was evidenced by a high CO (Carbon Monoxide) in the exhaust. On the second MOT test they could tell that it was likely to be the Cat at fault because they could see on their analysis equipment that my lambda sensor (which was new) was relatively inactive i.e. it was not working (switching) hard to correct an incorrect combustion gas mixture from the engine.

Did they give you any educated guesses at the MOT station as to what the problem might be? High O2 (Oxygen) in the exhaust gases normally means an overly lean combustion mixture with air leaks at either the manifold or exhaust being a common culprit. However, if you had a "blowing" exhaust this would normally get picked up at the MOT?

I would have thought that if your new lambda sensor was sensing an overly lean mixture, up-stream from the engine (and struggling to correct it) it would throw an error code to the ECU. To my knowledge the M44 (pre-OBD II) cars don't have a "check engine light" and so it might be worth plugging in a code reader to see if ant error codes are stored. In my experience when MAF sensors start to fail they sometimes cause lean mixture error codes from the lambda sensors.

Pierrick
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: MOT Failure

Post by Pierrick » Tue 25 Mar, 2014 20:06

here are my readings for the 2nd MOT:

1st fast idle
CO=0,032, max is 0.300 pass
HC=0, max limite is 200 pass
Lambda= 1.049, should be between 0,970 and 1,030 fail

2nd fast idle
CO=0,013, max is 0.300 pass
HC=0, max limite is 200 pass
Lambda= 1.090, should be between 0,970 and 1,030 fail

Natural idle
CO=0, max limit is 0,500 pass

Can't find the readings from the first MOT!

I've created a new topic hrer:
http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopi ... =5&t=40278

Del
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: MOT Failure

Post by Del » Tue 25 Mar, 2014 20:17

All the readings are good apart from the lambda - I think this puts exhaust leaks at the top of the suspects list. T-tony who posts on here regularly is a MOT expert/professional - he might be happy to give a view - but there again he might want to relax away from work when he's home :D

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wildeboy
Joined: Sat 18 Jun, 2011 20:54
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  Z3 roadster 2.8
Location: Leeds

Re: MOT Failure

Post by wildeboy » Tue 25 Mar, 2014 20:49

My zed has just failed its MOT with a leaking exhaust and my emissions test was very similar to yours with CO and HC passing and lambda barely scraping through.

Another pointer towards your exhaust leaking, or maybe my lambda sensors are kaput too!
1997 Z3 2.8 in Montreal Blue, only 130k on the clock!
OEM Roll Hoops
M50B25 Inlet manifold
BMC CDA Induction kit
Beige roof

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wildeboy
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  Z3 roadster 2.8
Location: Leeds

Re: MOT Failure

Post by wildeboy » Tue 25 Mar, 2014 20:54

Hi Pierrick, Sorry just seen your other thread explaining that yes you do have a leak, at least we were pointing you in the right direction!
1997 Z3 2.8 in Montreal Blue, only 130k on the clock!
OEM Roll Hoops
M50B25 Inlet manifold
BMC CDA Induction kit
Beige roof

littlefeller
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Re: MOT Failure

Post by littlefeller » Tue 25 Mar, 2014 21:04

how odd, mine failed ALL the emissions tests, also failed on front ball joint like yours, however when the guy wrote out the failure sheet he forgot to put the emissions fail :lol: . he did mention the exhaust was leaking but it wasn't an mot failure. i ran my inpa and it picks up a lambo error, think this is due to a leaking exhaust or sticking hydraulic lifters maybe as it has the usual cold weather start stutter (thought this was the cam sensor but have since changed this and it still does it, oil change to thinner oil will give me a better idea on the lifters) :?

Pierrick
Joined: Fri 31 Aug, 2012 23:47
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: MOT Failure

Post by Pierrick » Tue 25 Mar, 2014 21:09

Thanks for your replies guys I'll contact tony...

My lambda is new so I'm sure this is not the problem.

Del, you are telling me the reading are good, is 0 for HC normal then?

What is HC by the way?

Wildeboy, did you change you exhaust then? and nothing else? this cured the problem with the lambda reading?

Pierrick
Joined: Fri 31 Aug, 2012 23:47
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: MOT Failure

Post by Pierrick » Tue 25 Mar, 2014 21:14

you've been Lucky little feller!
When was this? you will probably have the same problem at the next MOT!

Pierrick
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: MOT Failure

Post by Pierrick » Tue 25 Mar, 2014 21:29

New post here:

http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopi ... 21#p373821

to concentrate on the exhaust issue...

littlefeller
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Re: MOT Failure

Post by littlefeller » Tue 25 Mar, 2014 22:12

nah not for a while, twas in december :lol:

littlefeller
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Re: MOT Failure

Post by littlefeller » Sat 29 Mar, 2014 12:16

well how odd, I ran my z for 48 miles on the red light, then filled up with cheapo morrisons 95 fuel and guess what - my lambo error didn't come back after I cleared the error memory. it reappeared almost straight away last week on 97 fuel :puzzle:

Pierrick
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: MOT Failure

Post by Pierrick » Sat 29 Mar, 2014 16:05

Strange!

Are you sure this due only to fuel???!

littlefeller
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Re: MOT Failure

Post by littlefeller » Sat 29 Mar, 2014 17:44

no I am not sure, seems unlikely, but an odd coincidence. next week I will swap it back to 97 and see what happens

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