Any quick tips? Car won't start ...

UK forum for general and technical discussion about the Z3 roadster
Post Reply
gyroman99
Joined: Fri 01 Feb, 2008 17:49
Posts: 24

  Z3 roadster 2.8
Location: Tavistock

Any quick tips? Car won't start ...

Post by gyroman99 »

I'd be grateful for any suggestions which would help me to a rapid diagnosis: My lovely 2.8l Z3 has been sadly neglected over the winter - garaged but not started for a few months due to a series of family issues including a bereavement. The battery was flat, but after a good charge the car turns over well and fires into life. But a sec or for two later, when I try and sustain the revs with the accelerator, it just fades and dies. I'm guessing petrol starvation but the tank's half full. Could it be the fuel pump? Or is it an engine management issue after the flatting of the battery? This state of affairs is repeated exactly after subsequent battery top-ups. Has anyone else had similar problems after their car's had a few months enforced rest?
User avatar
Daz3
Joined: Wed 15 Sep, 2010 19:57
Posts: 534

  Z3 roadster 2.8
Location: Spilsby

Re: Any quick tips? Car won't start ...

Post by Daz3 »

I'd start with fuel filter has it ever been replaced? Also check the air filters ok. Can you hear the pump running?
Image
GE45TON
Joined: Sun 29 Apr, 2012 18:32
Posts: 61

  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Any quick tips? Car won't start ...

Post by GE45TON »

Does sound like a fuel problem, try taking the fuel filler cap off to start. As suggested it could be the pump or it could be the fuel itself, it does go off, so any car that's being stored for a while should be drained of petrol.
therealdb1
Joined: Tue 25 Jun, 2013 21:47
Posts: 263

  Z3 roadster 2.0

Re: Any quick tips? Car won't start ...

Post by therealdb1 »

Hi gyro,

I had exactly the same problem after a lay up and it took 3 months to find the culprit!
Disconnect the MAF plug and see if it will run then.
It will not run correctly as it will use a default fuel air mix but you could still drive it if you have to.
If it runs with the MAF disconnected a replacement will fix your problem. Do buy a decent one though as the world is full of cheap copies that will introduce all sorts of other poor running issues.

Cheers

Chris
User avatar
BladeRunner919
Joined: Fri 17 Feb, 2012 20:18
Posts: 2225

  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Any quick tips? Car won't start ...

Post by BladeRunner919 »

therealdb1 wrote: If it runs with the MAF disconnected a replacement will fix your problem.
That's not necessarily true. You are correct in saying that when you disconnect the MAF the car runs on default settings, but that doesn't necessarily mean a faulty MAF. It could just as easily be an air leak or some other problem that gets 'ignored' by the ecu when it runs on default settings.
Del
Joined: Sat 19 Nov, 2011 18:35
Posts: 2136

  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Any quick tips? Car won't start ...

Post by Del »

As the car actually started and then stalled, ideally you need to plug in a fault code reader to see if the ECU managed to store an error code that helps identify the problem. The challenge with this sort of problem is that it could be a single item from a long list of things covering fuel delivery or ignition.
gyroman99
Joined: Fri 01 Feb, 2008 17:49
Posts: 24

  Z3 roadster 2.8
Location: Tavistock

Re: Any quick tips? Car won't start ...

Post by gyroman99 »

Oh boy this forum is good and Chris, you're a genius. Disconnected the MAF and it started first time! Thank you so much - that saved me so much time. Now to start researching a replacement. OEM recommended?

Andy
User avatar
colb
Joined: Sat 05 May, 2012 22:46
Posts: 690

  Z3 roadster 1.8 TU
Location: Newport South Wales UK

Re: Any quick tips? Car won't start ...

Post by colb »

OEM absolutely dont go wasting money on ebay cheap versions go for Bosch or Siemens.
Been same place as you so stick with OEM replacement.

Colb
Colb
1999 BMW 1.8 Z3
2003 BMW 2.5 Z4
1998 Honda Deauville NT650V
therealdb1
Joined: Tue 25 Jun, 2013 21:47
Posts: 263

  Z3 roadster 2.0

Re: Any quick tips? Car won't start ...

Post by therealdb1 »

Hi Andy,
Many thanks for your praise but I wouldn't consider myself a genius. I just have a long memory of the frustration and number of wild goose chases that the fault codes sent me on to try and cure the exact symptoms that you described.
My Z had a Siemens unit and I replaced like for like. If you have the Bosch then go for that but as Bladerunner says check the air hoses from the MAF to the throttle body first as disconnecting the MAF may be covering an air leak. For the engine to stall immediately it will be quite a large leak and by squeezing the hoses you should be able to physically see the split in the hose if that is the problem. In my case the hoses had already been replaced along with half a dozen other items that, in retrospect, were not required.
At least you know that you have an 'air' fault and it should be a simple fix.
Chris
therealdb1
Joined: Tue 25 Jun, 2013 21:47
Posts: 263

  Z3 roadster 2.0

Re: Any quick tips? Car won't start ...

Post by therealdb1 »

By the way Andy,
Forgot to mention if you do need new hoses call your local BMW Dealer and like me you may be pleasantly surprised to find that genuine BMW hoses are cheaper that the Latvian or equivalent copies sold on ebay. The BMW dealerships do seem to have realised that these are not £30k cars any more and certain high turnover parts are therefore more realistically priced. I remember I paid about £21 in total including VAT for both parts of the air hose from Coopers and they were in stock ready for collection that day.
Mugs
Joined: Wed 07 Aug, 2013 01:26
Posts: 341

  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Any quick tips? Car won't start ...

Post by Mugs »

mine started doing exactly the same, just out of the blue one day a couple of weeks ago.
i unplugged the MAF and it ran fine so i bought a genuine Bosch MAF (from a BMW breakers near me that was tested and guaranteed), plugged it in and it now runs fine again.
therealdb1
Joined: Tue 25 Jun, 2013 21:47
Posts: 263

  Z3 roadster 2.0

Re: Any quick tips? Car won't start ...

Post by therealdb1 »

Hi Andy,

Did you ever get your car sorted?

It is useful to post a conclusion on here to assist others in the future.

Cheers

Chris
gyroman99
Joined: Fri 01 Feb, 2008 17:49
Posts: 24

  Z3 roadster 2.8
Location: Tavistock

Re: Any quick tips? Car won't start ...

Post by gyroman99 »

Chris,

You question is well timed. Embarrassingly I've been pulled every which way since diagnosing the problem and only got as far as researching prices for an OEM MAF. Seems that around £125 is the best I can find. Does that seem a fair price or should I be looking harder? I haven't tried breakers' yards but, to be honest, I'm not sure where I'd start there....

Andy
User avatar
Southernboy
Joined: Thu 07 Oct, 2010 12:39
Posts: 6436

  Z3 roadster 3.0i
Location: Johannesburg

Re: Any quick tips? Car won't start ...

Post by Southernboy »

..... If you're anywhere close by Sommerset, try calling Shaun Alexander of Alexanders of Sommerset... he will help you with an OEM replacement part...and he's reliable etc... :wink:
"Normal is overrated"
Image

Z3 Upgrades and Additions
User avatar
colb
Joined: Sat 05 May, 2012 22:46
Posts: 690

  Z3 roadster 1.8 TU
Location: Newport South Wales UK

Re: Any quick tips? Car won't start ...

Post by colb »

Maf's hurt your wallet, I found this on GSF Car Parts site at £117.60 but it doesn't mention the maker.
http://www.gsfcarparts.com/parts/fuel-e ... ass-sensor

OEM preferable I tried cheap ebay versions, ended up returning it and getting a refund luckily enough.

Breakers are always an option if it doesn't work you should be able to return it for a refund but how long will it last against a new one?

Colb
Colb
1999 BMW 1.8 Z3
2003 BMW 2.5 Z4
1998 Honda Deauville NT650V
gyroman99
Joined: Fri 01 Feb, 2008 17:49
Posts: 24

  Z3 roadster 2.8
Location: Tavistock

Re: Any quick tips? Car won't start ...

Post by gyroman99 »

I've looked at the Alexander's site, the prices look good and I see they currently have MAFs from 1.8, 2.0 and 2.2 Z3s, but not from a 2.8. Can anyone advise, or confirm that each model needs a different MAF type?

Thanks
User avatar
Southernboy
Joined: Thu 07 Oct, 2010 12:39
Posts: 6436

  Z3 roadster 3.0i
Location: Johannesburg

Re: Any quick tips? Car won't start ...

Post by Southernboy »

Easiest way to check is by the part number... Check your part number on realoem.com...then if you enter that part number into the top left corner on the site, click "enter"..it will list all the BMW's that use that part... :wink:
"Normal is overrated"
Image

Z3 Upgrades and Additions
gyroman99
Joined: Fri 01 Feb, 2008 17:49
Posts: 24

  Z3 roadster 2.8
Location: Tavistock

Re: Any quick tips? Car won't start ...

Post by gyroman99 »

Thanks for the advice. Looks like my MAF is shared only by the 2.5, 2.5i and 2.8 (roadster and coupe). I'll start hunting!
User avatar
Southernboy
Joined: Thu 07 Oct, 2010 12:39
Posts: 6436

  Z3 roadster 3.0i
Location: Johannesburg

Re: Any quick tips? Car won't start ...

Post by Southernboy »

... give Shaun Alexander a call anyhow... he may have one, and I'm fairly certain he would know where to get one... :wink:
"Normal is overrated"
Image

Z3 Upgrades and Additions
gookah
Z Register member
Joined: Thu 07 Aug, 2008 09:51
Posts: 2737

  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: Any quick tips? Car won't start ...

Post by gookah »

Just wondering what makes you certain it is the MAF.
It may be an expensive way of proving it isn't that, the usual suspects are split intake hoses..
Image

Z3 2.8 Progress Journal (Mine)
Z3 1.9 Sport Progress Journal (Wifey's)

I have an element of 'M-styling' on my car, If that's a good enough reason for the manufacturers to adorn a 320 with the M badge, then its certainly a good enough reason for me..
gyroman99
Joined: Fri 01 Feb, 2008 17:49
Posts: 24

  Z3 roadster 2.8
Location: Tavistock

Re: Any quick tips? Car won't start ...

Post by gyroman99 »

See previous posts: MAF connected, fires briefly but won't run. MAF disconnected, fires up and runs perfectly. With other folk agreeing, I can't see how it's NOT the MAF sensor.
therealdb1
Joined: Tue 25 Jun, 2013 21:47
Posts: 263

  Z3 roadster 2.0

Re: Any quick tips? Car won't start ...

Post by therealdb1 »

Hi Andy,

Unfortunately those are the sort of prices for OEM MAF's. I have to admit I did go down the road of the breakers yard since the car doesn't get used much. The guy who sold it knew the history and mileage of the car it came from and offered a guarantee. Just give the seller the part number from your old one and make sure it matches what they are selling.

However since checking the air hoses is simple (and free) do peek under the bonnet before committing your £££'s since you may be lucky!

Chris
User avatar
BladeRunner919
Joined: Fri 17 Feb, 2012 20:18
Posts: 2225

  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Any quick tips? Car won't start ...

Post by BladeRunner919 »

gyroman99 wrote:See previous posts: MAF connected, fires briefly but won't run. MAF disconnected, fires up and runs perfectly. With other folk agreeing, I can't see how it's NOT the MAF sensor.
The maf reports the volume of air entering the engine to the ecu, so that the ecu can fuel and spark accordingly. If the ecu is given incorrect information, then you get running problems, of course. A faulty maf will cause that. But, if you have an air leak between the maf and the engine, then you have unmetered air entering - the result is that the maf is reporting one volume of air, but the reality is that a different amount is entering the engine. Exactly the same symptoms. When you disconnect the maf, the ecu runs on default settings, negating any incorrect metering of the incoming air, regardless of the reason.

That means that it's just as likely to be an air leak - probably more likely in most cases, as the hoses perish over time.
gookah
Z Register member
Joined: Thu 07 Aug, 2008 09:51
Posts: 2737

  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: Any quick tips? Car won't start ...

Post by gookah »

gyroman99 wrote:See previous posts: MAF connected, fires briefly but won't run. MAF disconnected, fires up and runs perfectly. With other folk agreeing, I can't see how it's NOT the MAF sensor.

Just trying to possibly save you money with an easy check, but hey ho spend away.
Image

Z3 2.8 Progress Journal (Mine)
Z3 1.9 Sport Progress Journal (Wifey's)

I have an element of 'M-styling' on my car, If that's a good enough reason for the manufacturers to adorn a 320 with the M badge, then its certainly a good enough reason for me..
gyroman99
Joined: Fri 01 Feb, 2008 17:49
Posts: 24

  Z3 roadster 2.8
Location: Tavistock

Re: Any quick tips? Car won't start ...

Post by gyroman99 »

All your comments are good and welcome. I will specifically look around the MAF before committing to spend. I don't have time to do deep techie work on cars any more (long gone are the days of changing a clutch in a Spitfire whilst seated in the passenger seat!) and I really value this forum for the wealth of real experience to get to a solution quickly.
bertiejaffa
Joined: Fri 26 Jul, 2013 09:28
Posts: 1733

  M roadster S50
Location: Manchester

Re: Any quick tips? Car won't start ...

Post by bertiejaffa »

It sounds very similar to issues I had with my 2.0 last year and what (_Z3) is currently going through at the minute - both caused by split pipes - fingers crossed
Here come the girls.....
Image
My //M Refurb
My First Zed Journal
robf
Joined: Fri 20 May, 2011 12:43
Posts: 16

  Z3 roadster 2.2i
Location: auckland

Re: Any quick tips? Car won't start ...

Post by robf »

A real quicky would be to clean the MAF , as it's been standing for a while ?
Rob.
gyroman99
Joined: Fri 01 Feb, 2008 17:49
Posts: 24

  Z3 roadster 2.8
Location: Tavistock

Re: Any quick tips? Car won't start ...

Post by gyroman99 »

OK - lets hope this is the final instalment: Grateful thanks to everyone on the forum - especially Chris (therealdb1) - for helping me trace the problem so quickly - it was indeed the MAF sensor and the hoses re all fine. And thanks to Southernboy for suggesting I talk to Alexanders of Somerset - http://www.alexandersofsomerset.co.uk. Shaun and Darren there did a great job. They didn't have one on stock on first call but suggested I wait a week or two. They duly called me to say they had what I wanted - a Siemens OEM unit out of a 2.8 - which they had just got into stock. I emailed their payment (I was VERY happy with the price), and it was delivered a day after despatch. I can't recommend them highly enough. Fitted it in 5mins flat tonight and the car is now purring like a happy cat. I have some serious servicing to do now to make sure everything has survived its lay-up, following by the usual discussion from the wife as to why this is the right time of year to get rid of the car...

Cheers everyone!
bertiejaffa
Joined: Fri 26 Jul, 2013 09:28
Posts: 1733

  M roadster S50
Location: Manchester

Re: Any quick tips? Car won't start ...

Post by bertiejaffa »

gyroman99 wrote: following by the usual discussion from the wife as to why this is the right time of year to get rid of the car...

Cheers everyone!
Easier to get rid of the wife, unfortunately Alexanders of Somerset don't have any cheap replacements :D
Here come the girls.....
Image
My //M Refurb
My First Zed Journal
User avatar
Southernboy
Joined: Thu 07 Oct, 2010 12:39
Posts: 6436

  Z3 roadster 3.0i
Location: Johannesburg

Re: Any quick tips? Car won't start ...

Post by Southernboy »

Alexanders have sorted many forum members...and contrary to the suggestion that I am related...they are very helpful.... :D
"Normal is overrated"
Image

Z3 Upgrades and Additions
therealdb1
Joined: Tue 25 Jun, 2013 21:47
Posts: 263

  Z3 roadster 2.0

Re: Any quick tips? Car won't start ...

Post by therealdb1 »

Hi Andy, thanks for the update and I am glad that you are sorted.
It is threads like this one that make the forum such a useful resource.
I don't know what the weather is like where you are but we have had 3 weeks of fog in Norfolk so my Z is not out of hibernation yet!
As for the wife, well it's her fault that I have a Z3! She made me sell my "bus" aka metallic red Jaguar XJR and get something more sensibly sized that she could drive. Her suggestion was MX5 but I talked her into a metallic purple Z instead!
Cheers
Chris
gyroman99
Joined: Fri 01 Feb, 2008 17:49
Posts: 24

  Z3 roadster 2.8
Location: Tavistock

Re: Any quick tips? Car won't start ...

Post by gyroman99 »

Thanks. With regard to bertiejaffa's comment, I wondered about trading in for a newer model, but I'm thinking that a younger one would be more expensive to run. The old one is not causing too many problems, I'm used to it and, actually, I prefer the older classic shape. There's been the odd splutter but nothing that that I can't manage and, in general, I've enjoyed my years of ownership.

Thinking about it, the same applies to my Z3 too .....
bertiejaffa
Joined: Fri 26 Jul, 2013 09:28
Posts: 1733

  M roadster S50
Location: Manchester

Re: Any quick tips? Car won't start ...

Post by bertiejaffa »

gyroman99 wrote:Thanks. With regard to bertiejaffa's comment, I wondered about trading in for a newer model, but I'm thinking that a younger one would be more expensive to run. The old one is not causing too many problems, I'm used to it and, actually, I prefer the older classic shape. There's been the odd splutter but nothing that that I can't manage and, in general, I've enjoyed my years of ownership.

Thinking about it, the same applies to my Z3 too .....
ha ha - very good :lol:

I think I need to change mine though... you may have seen a thread on "Spotted" a couple of weks ago when the missus was seen bombing around Mossley in my Z3M while I was working away.. Well this week I went to work in the M and left my A5 behind... anyway, while away she drove to work and apparently "Didnt realise she had taken my car :?: :!: Although she apparently realised when she had a blow out on the way home and has left the car on the drive with the space saver on.... Even better, she didnt realise she had the blow out and was merrily driving on the rim :head:

....whats Alexanders number again!
Here come the girls.....
Image
My //M Refurb
My First Zed Journal
Post Reply