Water in boot

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ualla
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  Z3 roadster 2.0

Water in boot

Post by ualla » Sat 17 May, 2014 18:52

I seem to have an issue with water seeping into my car's boot.

I first noticed this about a month ago. I had taken the car to get washed and after a couple of days I noticed that there was a puddle of water in my boot. I removed the water, looked under the carpet and noticed that there was water around the battery as well. I removed the battery, dried it all and monitored it for a couple of weeks. All good, no condensation and no puddles (not even after some heavy rain in my area).

Last time I opened my boot was Monday. I opened it again today, and there it was: the puddle.

I really can't see where the water is getting in from. Is this a common problem? Does anybody have any ideas where the water could be getting through?

Thanks!

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Davejue1
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Re: Water in boot

Post by Davejue1 » Sat 17 May, 2014 18:54

I've not had it myself but I understand the gasket on the brakelight in the boot lid fails allowing water in. Cheap repair so probably a good place to start. :)

Cheers
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ualla
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Re: Water in boot

Post by ualla » Sat 17 May, 2014 18:57

Cheers Dave, definitely a good place to start!

I'll go take a look now :)

henrycrun
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Re: Water in boot

Post by henrycrun » Sat 17 May, 2014 21:34

Is the seal a flat gasket or an O ring around the edge ?

Del
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  Z3 roadster 1.9

Re: Water in boot

Post by Del » Sun 18 May, 2014 01:02

I agree with Dave, the 3rd brake light seal and aerial grommet are the main 2 culprits - the latter perishes on the bit above the wing and crumbles away.

wisemonkey
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  Z3 roadster 2.2i

Re: Water in boot

Post by wisemonkey » Sun 18 May, 2014 19:19

i have same issue ,looked on realoem couldnt see a replacement seal ? but idid for tail lights which can also cause this ,ive done arial ,i havent had the chance to take it out to see whats ,what
any ideas ?

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Davejue1
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Re: Water in boot

Post by Davejue1 » Sun 18 May, 2014 19:42

Hi wisemonkey, I found the gasket on oem so it is there but I can't remember what section it was in sorry. :(

Cheers
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kkkrisss
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Re: Water in boot

Post by kkkrisss » Mon 19 May, 2014 07:57

Should be under lights section.

wisemonkey
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Re: Water in boot

Post by wisemonkey » Mon 19 May, 2014 18:42

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do ... g=63&fg=25
sorry cant see a seal /gasket anyone ? ,is it part of 3rd brake light ?

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Davejue1
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Re: Water in boot

Post by Davejue1 » Mon 19 May, 2014 18:53

My apologies, I've just had a look, I think it was the gasket between the lens and the unit i'd seen. Barry, can you sort out where the gasket is on oem for the third brake light??? :D
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ualla
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Re: Water in boot

Post by ualla » Mon 19 May, 2014 23:42

I did a quick test of chucking a couple of pints of water at the third stop light (not exactly the most technical of methods, I agree) and I couldn't feel any dampness.

Then I had a closer look at the antenna grommet and it is far from water tight. It is actually so ruined that it has shrunk and there is definitely space for water to filter through that hole.

I've bought a new grommet and will fit it once is get it... Hopefully that's the cause.

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Re: Water in boot

Post by kkkrisss » Tue 20 May, 2014 07:33

the third brake light gasket is number 2:

http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?mod ... g=63&fg=25

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Re: Water in boot

Post by kkkrisss » Tue 20 May, 2014 08:22

ualla wrote:I did a quick test of chucking a couple of pints of water at the third stop light (not exactly the most technical of methods, I agree) and I couldn't feel any dampness.

Then I had a closer look at the antenna grommet and it is far from water tight. It is actually so ruined that it has shrunk and there is definitely space for water to filter through that hole.

I've bought a new grommet and will fit it once is get it... Hopefully that's the cause.

My battery tray is on the opposite side of the antenna grommet. I personally cannot think of a way that the water gets in the boot through the grommet and finds its way to the batter tray.

You should definitely check the third brake light gasket...

ualla
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  Z3 roadster 2.0

Re: Water in boot

Post by ualla » Tue 20 May, 2014 10:10

Thanks a lot for the realoem link, i was struggling to find it as well.

Just in case I have bought it and will fit it once i get it. For £5 delviered I think it might be worth it anyway.

This way I can change both the grommet and the gasket. If it still happens after changing these 2 bits then I guess I'll just have to shut the boot with silicone :D

ualla
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Re: Water in boot

Post by ualla » Mon 02 Jun, 2014 13:32

So, I managed to change the antenna grommet (when changing it I noticed that the antenna support on the inside was a bit rusted. Evidently water was coming in through there.

Seeing as I had it, I also tried to change the gasket on the third brake light. Unfortunately I think I have the wrong gasket. I have a '99 2.0L facelift model, and the gasket I bought doesn't seem to fit.

Does the facelift model also have this gasket?

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Robert T
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Re: Water in boot

Post by Robert T » Mon 02 Jun, 2014 15:50

The gasket is not shown on the diagram for the facelift third-brakelight, so I am not sure whether it has a separate gasket or whether it is part of the lamp itself, which is one piece, rather than a lens and lamp board.

One thing to watch for is whether your cars is parked level - if you park nose up, then water will collect at the rear of the roof and potentially soak through rather than going down the drains at the front of the roof (by the B-pillar). If you park nose down, then the boot lid can collect water in the indentation for the third brakelight, so if the seal is not good, then this will seep through. If can't park level, then I think nose down is the better bet and just make sure your third brakelight seal is good.

It is amazing how much water can get into the boot, and it finds its way to the lowest points - the battery well and the well on the left-hand side containing the tilt switch for the alarm. I would remove all trim and look carefully for water, get it dried out, then treat it to a coat of talcum powder all over - you should then be see tracks where the water has come in.

Cheers R.
Arctic Silver '99 Z3 1.9 & Black '59 Frogeye 1275cc
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ualla
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Re: Water in boot

Post by ualla » Mon 02 Jun, 2014 16:14

I had read about the parking nose down, and since then that's how I've been parking my car. I park just outside my house and there is a very slight slope which I don't think should affect it, but you never know.

The facelift model third brake light seems to be completely sealed so I don't think I have a way of getting in there.

The talc idea is a very good one. I might very well try that out as the car is now dry...

Thank you!

Vic-Z3
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Re: Water in boot

Post by Vic-Z3 » Wed 04 Jun, 2014 18:42

See here ................................... >

http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopi ... ot#p349616

It still don't leak ................. :D
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ualla
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Re: Water in boot

Post by ualla » Fri 06 Jun, 2014 12:02

Very interesting read! Thanks for the link :)

I'll have a proper inspection this weekend, weather permitting...

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lightning
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Re: Water in boot

Post by lightning » Fri 06 Jun, 2014 12:48

Water used to get into both footwells on my Triumph Vitesse, and then in winter it froze overnight, meaning there was an inch of ice in the footwells.

I solved the problem by drilling a 10mm hole in the bottom of each floor.

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BladeRunner919
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Re: Water in boot

Post by BladeRunner919 » Fri 06 Jun, 2014 12:52

I think that counts as solving the symptoms, rather than solving the problem!

ualla
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  Z3 roadster 2.0

Re: Water in boot

Post by ualla » Fri 06 Jun, 2014 14:23

Yeah, what bothers me most is the smell of humidity when I open the boot.

And there's the worry that the battery support will rust and one day the battery will drop to the ground :D

Brian4
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Re: Water in boot

Post by Brian4 » Fri 06 Jun, 2014 20:04

Not as a cure but there are 2 grommets each side of the battery if you push one of those out it will fall into the spare wheel frame and the water that accumulates will drain away and road spray will not be able to get back in.
i used to have a leak in the boot of ours but used to collect in the well behind the passenger wheel where the tilt sensor for the alarm is. I traced the leak to where the gutter around the boot meets the wing and the water found it's way somehow into the rear of the boot and came out in a small hole in the rear cross member. See photo.

Unless the whole of the boot fills up the only way I can see water getting into the battery box is through the boot lid seals.

Looking slightly up passenger side
Image

Grommet in battery box
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Re: Water in boot

Post by Vic-Z3 » Sat 07 Jun, 2014 22:22

Unfortunately if water gets past the bitumen seal around where the roof is bonded to the body work, which it will do eventually do to age.
There is two directions it can take depending if you are parking nose up or nose down a slight incline.
The one direction is to follow the rear single skin bulk head under the rear window carpet down behind the seats and ending up in the foot wells.
This is not a very nice place to sit as under the passenger/drivers seat is the motion sensor that control the traction control, if that fails as it did on mine.
The lights stay on permanently on the dash and if it is MOT time you will fail.
The other direction the water can take is to follow the rear single skin window bulk head until it reaches the overlapping ridged part prior to going down behind the seats.
As this ridged part is only partly welded on the upper ridge the water will about turn and flow directly into the boot, this time following the rear of the carpet down
until it ends up in both the battery compartment, under the tool tray and in the left hand well, which is just as important as under the seats.
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Robert T
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Re: Water in boot

Post by Robert T » Sat 07 Jun, 2014 22:39

Vic-Z3 wrote:This is not a very nice place to sit as under the passenger/drivers seat is the motion sensor that control the traction control, if that fails as it did on mine.
This only applies to later cars with DSC - cars with ASC don't have any sensors there, however you still don't want water inside the cabin. There is a good 3-4 inches of foam sound proofing under the seats and it holds an unbelievable amount of water, even if the carpet above it feels dry!

Cheers R.
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ualla
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Re: Water in boot

Post by ualla » Mon 07 Jul, 2014 13:30

Hi guys,

after changing the antenna grommet, the water leak into the boot has pretty much stopped. I say pretty much because I've noticed that there is another leak that happens from time to time. I notice it because the carpet covering the jack in my boot is wet in 2 spots. When I take the carpet out, I notice that it is more wet on the under side of the carpet than on top, which led me to believe that the water was filtering though the back of the boot. I removed some of the carpet and saw where it is likely coming in from.

Does anybody know where the water would get in through the boot in the photo I've attached?

Image

Thanks!

kkkrisss
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Re: Water in boot

Post by kkkrisss » Mon 07 Jul, 2014 14:04

Did you change the boot light gasket?

ualla
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  Z3 roadster 2.0

Re: Water in boot

Post by ualla » Mon 07 Jul, 2014 15:35

I bought the gasket, took the third stop out and noticed that mine didn't seem to have a gasket. After a bit of browsing in the internet, it was my understanding that the facelift Z3s don't actually have a gasket.

So I've basically got a gasket that I can't install...

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BladeRunner919
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Re: Water in boot

Post by BladeRunner919 » Mon 07 Jul, 2014 16:05

If water is coming down there, that's from inside the car. Is the roof well damp at all?

Or do you think it's running down the underside of the roof well before running down that bulkhead?

If you're unsure, I'd dust some talc around inside so you can see any 'tracks' that appear.

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Re: Water in boot

Post by Vic-Z3 » Mon 07 Jul, 2014 16:32

In answer to Ualla ............... :arrow:

This is exactly what was happening to me.

The answer was to reseal the hood to the body work.
I used "Captain Tolley's Creeping Crack Cure".

I refer you back to http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopi ... ot#p349616

:)
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ualla
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  Z3 roadster 2.0

Re: Water in boot

Post by ualla » Mon 14 Jul, 2014 13:37

Hi Vic,

thanks a lot for that thread, it does seem as though I have the exact same issue.

What is it exactly that solved your problem? Was it the sealant or just the gasket that had moved?

Where did you actually apply the Crack Cure? I bought a tube as well, but am not entirely sure where to apply it...

Thanks!

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Re: Water in boot

Post by Vic-Z3 » Mon 14 Jul, 2014 21:06

In my opinion it was the crack cure that solved the problem.
I applied it along the whole length of where the hood attaches to the rear bulk head.
Half open the roof and prop it with a piece of timber so you can get better access to the edge.
I started in the middle and ran it back along to the doors on both sides, bear in mind it is free flowing.
I attached a small piece of rubber tubing to the end of the spout on the bottle which eased the operation.
If the rear deck carpet is out of the car you will see it running in finding the small gaps.
The fluid is very white but mine cured to be clear.
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ualla
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Re: Water in boot

Post by ualla » Mon 14 Jul, 2014 21:38

Much appreciated! I'll do that this weekend :)

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Re: Water in boot

Post by Vic-Z3 » Mon 14 Jul, 2014 22:17

No probs, hope it works as well as it did on mine..... :)
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Sailorbaz
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Re: Water in boot

Post by Sailorbaz » Tue 15 Jul, 2014 02:44

I used windscreen sealer (not bond) when I installed my roof a few weeks ago. 2 beads of it and so far it's not leaked.

You can undo the bolts slightly and with the help of a friend get a tube of sealer and a nozzle into the space and run a nice continuous bead along and it will never set, always remain soft, similar to the OEM stuff.

But that crack cure stuff sounds good too, especially if it's very fluid like on application. Must remember that one, cheers.

ualla
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Re: Water in boot

Post by ualla » Sat 16 Aug, 2014 16:44

So I managed to finally track down where the water is seeping in. Where Vic-Z3 mentioned is exactly what I have as well.

Water is coming in where the soft top is attached to the body, water flows inside then drains into the boot through the holes.

Attached is a photo of where Capt Tolley's creeping crack cure is running inside.

Image

Does anybody know whether the creeping crack cure will solve the issue or whether I have a more serious issue I need to fix first? The liquid seems to be gushing through almost.

Vic-Z3
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Re: Water in boot

Post by Vic-Z3 » Sat 16 Aug, 2014 20:02

It may need more than one application of Cap Toll as it needs to build up on itself.
Run a bead of silicon along the inside edge where Cap Toll is coming through, this will aid
in the building and setting process.
Do not just rely on the silicon to hold the water back.
By the way, my boot is still bone dry after two seasons of rain using this method ............................ Result.
----------------- BMW Z3 Das Beste Auto -----------------

Mein altes Auto riecht nach Nudeln, hat dieses Auto eine Wurst Geruch.

ualla
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Re: Water in boot

Post by ualla » Fri 22 Aug, 2014 12:39

Thanks Vic!

I' just hoping to get the same result as you :)

I've been applying the Cap Toll liquid for a week now but I'm still getting the leak (one of them has stopped) so I will definitely get some silicon and try to use that as you suggest, hopefully Cap Toll will build up on top of that.

I really hope to solve that soon, I've got all the carpets in my living room and would like to clean up :D

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Re: Water in boot

Post by Vic-Z3 » Fri 22 Aug, 2014 20:27

Just a thought .......................... How tight are the nuts ?
Mine were fine, Capt Toll will do the job, I am confident of this.
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ualla
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Re: Water in boot

Post by ualla » Sat 23 Aug, 2014 00:36

For however simple your suggestion may be, I admit I haven't tried tightening the nuts. Good point :)

bertiejaffa
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Re: Water in boot

Post by bertiejaffa » Mon 01 Sep, 2014 14:43

This is a great thread, I have discovered over the weekend that I have exactly the same issue - water in my boot in the battery area. Basically, I was resolving the airbag light (again) and noticed that there was a good deal of water under the drivers seat... the carpet felt dry on top but was wet underneath, especially the sound proofing foam. I have no idea how long it has been wet, but it was dry earlier in the year (March/April) so I assume it is a relatively new issue over the past few months. I initially thought this was the front window seal, but when I tried pouring water at the top it appears to run out at the bottom of the door as it should do. However I then had to disconnect the battery and suddenly noticed a very large puddle of water in the battery well and the far right hand well when I removed the storage box. (the left hand side of the boot is bone dry). I then noticed that the carpet trim at the back of the boot was wet on the right hand side. Therefore I am assuming that the wet under the seats could be the result of the car being parked nose down over the wet July.. (Note it has now been nose up for the last 3 weeks). This would also make sense as the front part of the carpet in the foot wells is bone dry, therefore water is evidently not entering at the front of the car.

last night I removed all the boot trim and dried it out and left it over night whilst it rained. This morning I woke to find that there was again a puddle of water in the far right of the boot under the storage compartment and a little bit in the battery well too. I have looked behind the roll hoops at the carpet under the back window and confirmed that this is wet behind the driver seat. As such I am convinced that the seal of the roof has started leaking behind the drivers seat as described above and I have ordered some creeping crack. However, whilst I wait for that to come I have a couple of questions:

1st Can you confirm that this is where I need to put the creeping crack (after I put some silicone on the inside edge of the joint on the inside under the rear shelf carpet). I.e. under the rubber seal where the roof material tucks in?

Image

2nd. Can anyone confirm what the tube is for that runs from the right hand compartment to the battery compartment? (picture is shown 90 degrees angle)
Image

3rd... My car is also going in for the MOT this week and currently the ASC lights are on. I am hoping that they will go out on the way to the garage as they come on and off intermittently. I have always assumed this was because my ASC module needs to be refurbished (I have checked the sensors on the wheels and they are ok). I had penciled in having the refurbishment done this week to cure it once and for all but then I saw the comment further up in this thread about sensors under the seats. My Z3 is May 1999 2.0L so it is one of the first facelift versions and has an ASC switch on the dash. Can someone please confirm that the comment below from Robert T does apply to my car - ie that my car DOES NOT have these sensors under the seats and as such the damp under the seats is not the reason for the ASC lights being on.
Robert T wrote:
Vic-Z3 wrote:This is not a very nice place to sit as under the passenger/drivers seat is the motion sensor that control the traction control, if that fails as it did on mine.
This only applies to later cars with DSC - cars with ASC don't have any sensors there, however you still don't want water inside the cabin. There is a good 3-4 inches of foam sound proofing under the seats and it holds an unbelievable amount of water, even if the carpet above it feels dry!

Cheers R.
Thanks Lee
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Re: Water in boot

Post by Vic-Z3 » Mon 01 Sep, 2014 19:21

HI
No1. Yes I can confirm that. (Check your nuts)
No2. I believe this should attach to the battery if an outlet is on it. (Mine does not)
No3. I do not know.
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bertiejaffa
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Re: Water in boot

Post by bertiejaffa » Mon 01 Sep, 2014 20:28

Vic-Z3 wrote:HI
No1. Yes I can confirm that. (Check your nuts)
No2. I believe this should attach to the battery if an outlet is on it. (Mine does not)
No3. I do not know.
Thanks Vic...
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Robert T
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Re: Water in boot

Post by Robert T » Mon 01 Sep, 2014 20:30

Nose down was correct. The drain holes for the roof are at the front, immediately behind the B-pillars. If you park nose up, the water will stay on the roof and soak its way through.

The pipe in your photo is to vent hydrogen from the battery. Not all batteries have a suitable outlet to attach it to.

To determine if you have DSC, check the label on the ABS pump unit and its control board under the bonnet.

I'd also be tempted to remove the passenger seat, as if it is wet under the drivers seat, it is likely to be wet under the passenger seat as well, and besides drying it out, you will soon find out whether there is a DSC control unit under there that has got wet. :wink:

Cheers R.
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Brian4
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Re: Water in boot

Post by Brian4 » Mon 01 Sep, 2014 20:47

As Robert says check the ABS pump and it will say DSC if fitted and there will also be 2 switches/pressure sensors under the Brake Master cylinder. As yours says ASC on the dash switch I would think it only has ASC. If you get the chance have both seats out and check the carpet there is an awful lot of foam there to soak up water.

As already said the hose is the hydrogen vent from the top of the battery.

If you lower the roof you can pull the rubber seal out to give you a better view of where the lower rear of the roof is fixed to the body. The seal pushes back in very easily when you have seen all you need.
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Re: Water in boot

Post by bertiejaffa » Mon 01 Sep, 2014 22:03

Brian4 wrote:As Robert says check the ABS pump and it will say DSC if fitted and there will also be 2 switches/pressure sensors under the Brake Master cylinder. As yours says ASC on the dash switch I would think it only has ASC. If you get the chance have both seats out and check the carpet there is an awful lot of foam there to soak up water.

As already said the hose is the hydrogen vent from the top of the battery.

If you lower the roof you can pull the rubber seal out to give you a better view of where the lower rear of the roof is fixed to the body. The seal pushes back in very easily when you have seen all you need.
Thanks Brian, its definitely ASC so at least I am not looking at another mixture of possibilities :) With regards the rubber seal, thats good to know - do I need anything to "glue" it back on with when I pull it away from the bodywork?
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Brian4
Joined: Mon 19 Dec, 2011 19:02
Posts: 537

  Z3 roadster 3.0i
Location: Hinckley

Re: Water in boot

Post by Brian4 » Tue 02 Sep, 2014 17:57

Hi. No the seal just pulls off it is a U section behind and fits over the bodywork and plastic trim at the sides. I found it easier if you start around where the boot and rear wing meet. When it is out you will be able to see better where to put this leak cure stuff. I will get a picture later.
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Vic-Z3
Joined: Fri 11 Jun, 2010 20:28
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  Z3 roadster 2.2i
Location: Redditch
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Re: Water in boot

Post by Vic-Z3 » Tue 02 Sep, 2014 20:55

I will get a picture later.
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bertiejaffa
Joined: Fri 26 Jul, 2013 10:28
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  M roadster S50
Location: Manchester

Re: Water in boot

Post by bertiejaffa » Tue 02 Sep, 2014 23:59

Cheers - so glad I'm part of this forum. I wonder if it's a general fault behind the drivers side, or just something that we do as owners that makes it fail in the same place?
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TaffZee
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Re: Water in boot

Post by TaffZee » Wed 03 Sep, 2014 09:28

The only sure way to do this is to remove the hood and replace the sealant, I had to do this last year as mine had started to leak in exactly the same location as yours, tried all sorts to seal it without any luck, so with trepedation bought some Butyl sealerhttp://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Butyl-Tape-Strip-Bol ... 33820ea64c and removed the hood easier than I thought, worse job was removing the old sealer, I used two runs of the sealer about an inch apart, but all in all a easy job, completly waterproof now.
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