Water in boot

UK forum for general and technical discussion about the Z3 roadster
Brian4
Joined: Mon 19 Dec, 2011 19:02
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Re: Water in boot

Post by Brian4 »

As taffzee says better cure is to replace the butyl sealant which is time consuming.

Photo of the rubber seal pulled out to improve access to the hood to body join. Not the best but you can see the U shape and it just pushes back afterwards no sealant or glue.

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bertiejaffa
Joined: Fri 26 Jul, 2013 09:28
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Location: Manchester

Re: Water in boot

Post by bertiejaffa »

That's both - if I remove the seal then, am I right to assume that the hood is just fastened to the car with the screws on the inside so the real fix is to unscrew those, remove the old butyl and replace with new stuff the re-attach the roof with the screws?

Sorry for all the questions
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Richieroo
Joined: Mon 14 Oct, 2013 17:17
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  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: Water in boot

Post by Richieroo »

I've got a similar problem, and have read the thread with great interest. Many thanks for all the suggestions and experiences.

I've previously changed the third brakelight gasket,but on testing there still seems to be a minor amount of water coming in (tested by playing a hose on the bootlid), so I'll look at this. Tried the aerial gasket but this seems OK. There also seems to be leaks on either side of the boot, close to the hood/body. I've played a hose on the roof and let it drain, and, sure enough, water seeps through in either corner. I've noticed the suggested cure for this (sealant etc), but I also tried putting the hose in the "gutter" around the boot (with the boot open) and water comes through in the same place - can anyone suggest if this is the same problem - or something else? Thinking of trying the Capt Tolley cure, but don't want to block up any designed drain apertures.

Don't get enough water to get into the battery compartment, so either someone's made a drain aperture or the amount of water is small. Real problem with condensation with all that water inside!

Richieroo
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Robert T
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Re: Water in boot

Post by Robert T »

Richieroo, check the well behind the time on the left-hand side, just below the tail lamp cluster. The tilt-switch for the alarm is in there and it doesn't like getting wet. If you catch it now, you might prevent future problems with the alarm.

Cheers R.
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chris1984_99_99
Joined: Sat 01 May, 2010 17:24
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Re: Water in boot

Post by chris1984_99_99 »

I had an issue like this about a year ago when sitting at home I could suddenly hear my nearest and dearest alarm going off, jumping up I ran outside only to find the car sitting there, nobody near it, but the alarm was going off. Managed to get it off, but only to have it come on again on its own accord.

After looking around I found water in the boot, infact the tilt sensor was almost submerged in water! This lies under the aerial and after having a look at that, the seal was as much use as a roll of andrex in the Atlantic ocean. In the end we decided just to disconnect the tilt sensor and replace the washer. No problems since!
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TaffZee
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Re: Water in boot

Post by TaffZee »

The first sign of a leaking hood to bodywork seal is the carpet of the roof well (water will soak the carpet) so if you dont know where it is coming from a quick feel of the carpet will confirm if its from the hood to body seal. Also the drains for the roof, are inside the car, yep inside the car if you look at the very front of the hood (inside) next to the seat, you will see a box section, this is the drain for the roof, if this gets blocked water will enter the car, but not the boot.viewtopic.php?f=5&t=39011&p=362723&hili ... in#p362723
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Vic-Z3
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Re: Water in boot

Post by Vic-Z3 »

Image

What drain hole .......... ?
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Re: Water in boot

Post by Vic-Z3 »

Cross reference to my original Water in boot thread ............... :arrow:

http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopi ... 16#p349616
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bertiejaffa
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Re: Water in boot

Post by bertiejaffa »

Used plumber mate to wedge up the inside edge first and then a few coats of captain tolleys... Hopefully that's sorted it - will keep an eye on it for a while but fingers crossed - thanks everyone
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Richieroo
Joined: Mon 14 Oct, 2013 17:17
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Re: Water in boot

Post by Richieroo »

Me too!
Following my earlier post I invested in some Capt Tolleys. Seems to have done the trick. Flooded with a hose and no apparent leaks. Will monitor for a while during poorer weather!

Richieroo
Dino D
Joined: Fri 10 Feb, 2012 16:59
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  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: Water in boot

Post by Dino D »

Been following this and trying out all things mentioned to cure my leak.
Best thing I did was whip out the carpet in the roof well- easy to do and became very clear the exact areas if the leaks (around the good seal as it bends around the cabin at each end).

In my case the carpet never got wet to the touch, the water seemed to travel in the recesses and not soak the carpet at all and that made me think I didn't have a leak in that area so worth whipping the carpet out and checking.
Some pics below show the leaky areas (you can see the dusty residue and water marks coming down from the seal:

Image
Image

So I got to work as generously ran clear flexible silicone along the entire bottom edge of the seal.
Then poured the crack liquid in from outside expecting no leaks but alas it's still leaking through above where I put the silicone - so it seems the silicone has blocked some of the bottom edge but there are still holes to be filled.
In these pics you can see the whit droplets around the bolt holes.
Image
Image

I'm thinking to unbolt the seal about and then go in from the outside (where the rubber u channel seal is) and pump in some silicone down in there to where the butyl seal.
Good idea?
Or maybe try and remove the seal and reseal it myself but it's really awkward working in that area from inside the car especially with roll hoops.

If we crack this then we can make a definitive cure the leak entry to knowledge base!
bertiejaffa
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Re: Water in boot

Post by bertiejaffa »

Looking at the drops you have remaining I think it looks like you have almost cured it and just need to reapply the creeping crack stuff a few times at hourly intervals

That said, you also talk about renewing the butyl by removing the bolts and replacing it to renew the seal and this ultimately would fix it - I think someone has mentioned this already on page 1 of this thread. I guess it is like everything else with these cars. Initially you find a problem and it seems massive, then you read a little bit and the problem is explained, then you start to remove a few bits (in this case carpet) and suddenly you realise that simply undoing a few bolts will drop the hood away from the car.... Then you just fix and do the reverse
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Dino D
Joined: Fri 10 Feb, 2012 16:59
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Re: Water in boot

Post by Dino D »

Those drops are deceiving, it's actually worse than that but I'd wiped it up before taking the pics...

Also should mention my bolts needed tightening up, one was ready to come out and the others needed half to a full turn...

Yes looking at it now it seems easy enough to just unbolt and try and reseal.
This post I found is helpful too but somewhat scary but he is replacing entire hood, I'm thinking to just loosen up enough to get some sealant in there.
Thinking maybe silicone isn't best, that plumbers mait you mentioned is 'non setting', perhaps it'll be more flexible longer term than silicone...

http://webspace.ringling.edu/~dplassma/str/str.html
Dino D
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Re: Water in boot

Post by Dino D »

Sailorbaz wrote:I used windscreen sealer (not bond) when I installed my roof a few weeks ago. 2 beads of it and so far it's not leaked.

You can undo the bolts slightly and with the help of a friend get a tube of sealer and a nozzle into the space and run a nice continuous bead along and it will never set, always remain soft, similar to the OEM stuff.

But that crack cure stuff sounds good too, especially if it's very fluid like on application. Must remember that one, cheers.
Hi Just noticed your post now I'm on my pc.
Sounds like what I need to do (I'm loathe to whip out the whole sealing frame and old butyl just yet and do this if possible, don't want too much downtime now the weather is still good but also concious it could start raining again endlessly any time!).
Can you please clarify where you pumped the sealer into - I assume you mean on the inside of the car in the gap made from when you loosened the bolts?
Or do you mean loosen the bolts and then pump the sealer in form the outside (in the gap the is covered by the U-Channel rubber strip?.

Many thanks,
Dino
ualla
Joined: Mon 10 Feb, 2014 16:37
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  Z3 roadster 2.0

Re: Water in boot

Post by ualla »

So, after a while of being convinced that I had resolved the issue I finally realised that no matter how much crack cure I used, I would always have a leak. I took the rear of the hood off the body work and realised that the person that had fitted the hood had done an extremely shoddy job at it:
Image

Image

Anyway, I have taken the car to a specialist and now have been enjoying a leak free car. Hope nobody needs to go through what I did! :?
Dino D
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  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: Water in boot

Post by Dino D »

Good to hear it's sorted!

I should update to say that mines all dry now, I think he silicone and crack cure just needed time to set.
Thanks to the great advice and tips on hear as always!
kkkrisss
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Re: Water in boot

Post by kkkrisss »

Do you guys remove the outer rubber seal of the hood before applying the silicone and crack cure stuff?
Dino D
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Re: Water in boot

Post by Dino D »

kkkrisss wrote:Do you guys remove the outer rubber seal of the hood before applying the silicone and crack cure stuff?
Initially I didn't but after reading that on here I did (I only put crack cure from the outside in).
The silicone was done from inside the car only. I never did put in any from the outside in as the leaks all gone now.
Vic-Z3
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Re: Water in boot

Post by Vic-Z3 »

Image

Luving the rusty staple look ............... :shock:
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ualla
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Re: Water in boot

Post by ualla »

If only I knew who fitted that soft top...

Anyway, it's been raining for the past three days and my boot is totally dry. I'm so happy...
Brian4
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Re: Water in boot

Post by Brian4 »

Glad you are sorted nothing worse that water getting where it shouldn't
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ualla
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Re: Water in boot

Post by ualla »

Thanks Brian! I was getting so frustrated recently. Now I can focus on the more important aspect: driving :)
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TitanTim
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Re: Water in boot

Post by TitanTim »

When I had the hood replaced last July I was quite shocked how bad its condition was where it attached to the rear body, when you think of all the water, dirt and silt that gets down there its not surprising. I was quite apprehensive using the Zed again for the winter and the past weeks of heavy rain have tested it well. The fitter did adjust the roof so which has banished the small leak I had before from the passenger corner with the winscreen so well pleased.

Tim.
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Dino D
Joined: Fri 10 Feb, 2012 16:59
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  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: Water in boot

Post by Dino D »

Dino D wrote:
kkkrisss wrote:Do you guys remove the outer rubber seal of the hood before applying the silicone and crack cure stuff?
Initially I didn't but after reading that on here I did (I only put crack cure from the outside in).
The silicone was done from inside the car only. I never did put in any from the outside in as the leaks all gone now.
Just an update in case it helps anyone else.
I was still getting very small amounts of water in despite the silicone and creeping crack cure.
In a moment if inspiration I looked at what flashing products are used on a roof and came accross the simple solution- butyl flashing tape.
I used the 10mm wide one from Sika
http://m.screwfix.com/p/sika-multiseal- ... tered=true

It was a very cold day when I applied it so I warmed the par warmed on the radiator and used a hair dryer to soften it once in place again just make sure it's bonded fully around all the edges and bolts.
So far so good, no leaks at all and we've had heavy rain. To be honest with this in place I can't see how any water can get past (I ran two layers 10mm wide overlapping each other making for a large sealed area under the original seal).
Very effective and neat and can be removed if you get a new top fitted (suppose some heat will help unstick it).
kkkrisss
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Re: Water in boot

Post by kkkrisss »

Dino D wrote:
Dino D wrote:
kkkrisss wrote:Do you guys remove the outer rubber seal of the hood before applying the silicone and crack cure stuff?
Initially I didn't but after reading that on here I did (I only put crack cure from the outside in).
The silicone was done from inside the car only. I never did put in any from the outside in as the leaks all gone now.
Just an update in case it helps anyone else.
I was still getting very small amounts of water in despite the silicone and creeping crack cure.
In a moment if inspiration I looked at what flashing products are used on a roof and came accross the simple solution- butyl flashing tape.
I used the 10mm wide one from Sika
http://m.screwfix.com/p/sika-multiseal- ... tered=true

It was a very cold day when I applied it so I warmed the par warmed on the radiator and used a hair dryer to soften it once in place again just make sure it's bonded fully around all the edges and bolts.
So far so good, no leaks at all and we've had heavy rain. To be honest with this in place I can't see how any water can get past (I ran two layers 10mm wide overlapping each other making for a large sealed area under the original seal).
Very effective and neat and can be removed if you get a new top fitted (suppose some heat will help unstick it).

This means you have removed the hood?
Dino D
Joined: Fri 10 Feb, 2012 16:59
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  Z3 roadster 2.8

Re: Water in boot

Post by Dino D »

No not removed hood, just applied it inside the car where the hood meets the body (shown in my post further up).
So there is butyl tape sealer running inside the car over the area where the hood seal frame and body join (including the the bolts).

Should have said the tape is 10cm (100mm) wide not 10mm wide.
The tape peels of one side only, the other side is not sticky so nice and neat.

Will get some pics taken.
Dino D
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Re: Water in boot

Post by Dino D »

Image
Image
Image

Pics as promised of the flashing tape inside the car.
Think I will Dynamat that area too, I noticed a lot of noise comes through since I removed the carpet so a but of sound deadening there (and in the boot) should help a lot given the BMW carpet is so lightweight.
kkkrisss
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Re: Water in boot

Post by kkkrisss »

Great pics!

Is it going to be easy to remove in case you need to change the roof?
Vic-Z3
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Re: Water in boot

Post by Vic-Z3 »

Ummmmmm errrrrrrr I kinda see what you have done there, is it just me........ or could this not cause a
problem done the line, with water welling in certain spots.
As you have gone a bit postal on it, I would still use the crack cure to fill any possible well points.
If points where being awarded here, you would get a Ten from Len mate ........... :)
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Dino D
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Re: Water in boot

Post by Dino D »

Thanks for the feedback guys.

You making me worried (!) but remember this solution is only to stop what was a small amount of water (the bulk was sorted by silicone).
I after running one row of tape I thought I'd better do it properly and do a second row, it's a pain getting in there with roll hoops in the way!

What I'm going to do know is keep putting in the creeping crack cure. It was running through and not setting but now with nowhere to go if will set. That should sort out any 'wells'.

When the weather is warm again I can have a go at checking if any water is trapped and possibly just replacing the sealing frame.
Whilst this is butyl it is in tape form and nowhere near as messy as the black stuff you normally find so will be easy to remove and peel away when I need to. The only part that actually needs removing is where it's over the bolts the slit it where the frame meets body so the rest can remain in place when doing frame seal so no extra cleaning involved.

This has held up well through a lot if rain recently and that's what I need right now, a dry interior over winter as it only gets used once or twice a week at the moment and I don't want my interior getting mouldy!
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Re: Water in boot

Post by Vic-Z3 »

I like ............................. :thumb:
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Re: Water in boot

Post by Vic-Z3 »

Crack Cure is still holding on mine since initial install ................................... :thumb:
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kjb1
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Water in boot

Post by kjb1 »

hi guys, well is this normal? please take a look at the pic below, I have a run of water soaking the roof and running away into this channel?

ImageImage
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kjb1
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Re: Water in boot

Post by kjb1 »

anyone ???


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kjb1
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Re: Water in boot

Post by kjb1 »

would really appreciate some guidance if this is normal?


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Robert T
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Re: Water in boot

Post by Robert T »

I suspect that no-one is really sure. My gut feeling is that water should stay on the outside of the roof fabric and not soak through, but that does not explain the positioning of the drain tube that you can see in your picture. As I understand it, water is supposed to run off the front of the roof and be caught in the drains at the front - the fact that your water is dripping into the same drain seems to be more by good luck than by design. It looks like water is either soaking through the fabric, or the butyl seal at the base of the roof is not doing its job.

Cheers R.
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kjb1
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Re: Water in boot

Post by kjb1 »

thanks for advice, it does seem strange the leak falls away to what i believe to be a little drain.


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kkkrisss
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Re: Water in boot

Post by kkkrisss »

i think it is very unlikely for the water to soak through the fabric.

In my opinion it is either the butyl seal or the window that are leaking. Considering that the butyl seal is below that water line on the pictures i would put my money on the window.

Also it is not normal to have water inside the car so i would look for leaks if i were you.
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kjb1
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Water in boot

Post by kjb1 »

That well either side is used to capture water though isn't it? because it is a drain, little hole towards the front of the well. which way is it meant to enter the well then?


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