Boot spot weld

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dansutton
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Boot spot weld

Post by dansutton » Thu 26 Jun, 2014 19:46

Hello

After reading many posts on the above I am still unsure how to repair and by who? I have two failed welds on left hand side of boot and live in Bolton.

What is the price to repair.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks Danny.

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wildeboy
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Re: Boot spot weld

Post by wildeboy » Fri 27 Jun, 2014 09:21

Hi Dansutton,

I had mine done by someone in Huddersfield a couple of years ago and no problems since. They were recommended from this forum by a couple of Z3M owners so they had done a few.

I can't remember the exact details but I think I paid £260, although that sounds quite a lot now!

I can't remember their name either but it was in Emley and they did specialist/sports car accident repair and paint jobs.

Hope this helps, there are quite a few threads on this subject if you do some searching.
1997 Z3 2.8 in Montreal Blue, only 130k on the clock!
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dansutton
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Re: Boot spot weld

Post by dansutton » Fri 27 Jun, 2014 21:28

Thanks for your reply, do you remember what they did to repair your car?

Thanks Danny.

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lightning
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Re: Boot spot weld

Post by lightning » Sat 28 Jun, 2014 09:41

I had my first Z3 repaired by a guy who builds rally cars.

He fabricated a new bracket, although there is one available from BMW.
It is only listed against the Z3 M, as on that car BMW were repairing the fault FOC out of warranty.

To fit the bracket the differential needs to be removed, although as yours has only started to fail, it might only need welding, and be possible to do it without dropping the suspension etc.

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BladeRunner919
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Re: Boot spot weld

Post by BladeRunner919 » Sat 28 Jun, 2014 11:04

If you want a proper and permanent repair, then the Randy Forbes repair is the way to go.

http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopi ... =6&t=36796

dansutton
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Re: Boot spot weld

Post by dansutton » Sat 28 Jun, 2014 13:25

My main concern is finding someone who has done this type of work before on a z3 and is aware as what to do. Would having it re welding work or do you have to get the kit and what cost would this be to buy and fit.

Thanks again Danny

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BladeRunner919
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Re: Boot spot weld

Post by BladeRunner919 » Sat 28 Jun, 2014 14:02

If you want it done properly, I'd contact Randy Forbes and ask him if he knows any uk-based workshop that has experience of fitting his kit.

dansutton
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Re: Boot spot weld

Post by dansutton » Sat 28 Jun, 2014 14:10

Good point thanks I'll contact him. Thanks again

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lightning
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Re: Boot spot weld

Post by lightning » Sat 28 Jun, 2014 14:24

What engine is in your Z3?

Unless it's the M 3.2 you should be fine with a localised welded repair, particularly if the only issue is a couple of dodgy spot welds in the boot floor.

On the later cars BMW added a few extra spot welds, which was a poor attempt to stop the fault from occurring.

However my late model 3.0 is still perfect at 54,000 miles. It does also depend on how the car has been driven over it's lifetime.

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Jonttt
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Re: Boot spot weld

Post by Jonttt » Sat 28 Jun, 2014 15:45

There has never been any logic to which cars will suffer from this.

Search for the threads about the garage in Huddersfield which did a few a couple of years ago. If it's just a couple of spot welds and maybe a torn diff bracket they are your best solution to re strengthen.

Randy skit is the best but given the value of most Z3s now the cost of shipping and someone being willing to fit will be prohibitive. To my knowledge none has ever been fitted in the uk and there is no garage will any experience of fitting it over here.

You just need a competent body shop who know / can identify a couple of crucial areas to strengthen.
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corky
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Re: Boot spot weld

Post by corky » Sat 28 Jun, 2014 17:16

Hello Dan,
Bob onto the inter web and look for emley refinishers Huddersfield give them a ring and ask for Les he owns the garage,

If you tell him what the boot welds have gone he will know what exactly what to do, he has done a few up there and I don't know anyone that has had a problem since .

Regards corky

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pingu
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Re: Boot spot weld

Post by pingu » Sat 28 Jun, 2014 18:57

http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29172

I've done the job before. I think the only way to do it is to remove the diff and rear exhaust sections.
Pingu

corky
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Re: Boot spot weld

Post by corky » Sat 28 Jun, 2014 23:04

Pingu
You are right les removes the two back boxes and seam welds the cross member underneath where the diff hanger is

Since I have had mine done I've had no problem at all

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Re: Boot spot weld

Post by dansutton » Sun 29 Jun, 2014 11:37

Thanks all I will contact les and book the car with him. Also mine is a 97 2.8 with 84000 miles. I've owned the car for 10 years.

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lightning
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Re: Boot spot weld

Post by lightning » Mon 30 Jun, 2014 00:59

It's good that you are getting it done now, when the fault has just started.

On my 2.8 the bracket failed completely and a new one had to be made. BMW quoted £2,000 as they wanted to fit a whole new floor, which costs nearly £1,000 just for the part.

My friend repaired it for me. It was a proper repair, with a new bracket fabricated from stronger steel and a bracing piece seam welded under the boot floor.

That's one Z3 where the differential mount won't fail again.

corky
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Re: Boot spot weld

Post by corky » Mon 30 Jun, 2014 17:09

Dan,
If you go up to les's tell him corky says hello and mine is still going strong,

Regards corky

dansutton
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Re: Boot spot weld

Post by dansutton » Wed 02 Jul, 2014 22:12

Hi all

Spoke to les at emley and it's booked in for the end of July. Really impressed with his knowledge on the subject and quoted around the £300 mark :P

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Re: Boot spot weld

Post by dansutton » Mon 11 Aug, 2014 20:42

Lez completed all the work that was required and also wax oiled underneath for £300. Really pleased with the work carried out. He said the welds had only just started to go too. He has also taken photos before, during and the completed work for my records.

corky
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Re: Boot spot weld

Post by corky » Wed 13 Aug, 2014 20:14

Hello dan,
Les has a good little set up at Emily
there has been quite a few z's up for the boot welds doing over the past few years, hopefully you should have no problem at all now, I've had mine done for 5 years and is still as solid as a rock

Regards corky

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sirius-c
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Re: Boot spot weld

Post by sirius-c » Sun 24 Apr, 2016 14:03

I recently contacted Emley Refinishers to find out that Les has retired,
Unfortunately the guys there now aren't prepared to undertake this repair any more.

Does anyone know anywhere that can do this job in the North West or Yorkshire area's.

I have 3 raised spot welds in the boot floor at the near side on my 1997 2.8 Auto (60k Mileage).
This has happened in the last 2 years

I'm now starting to panic
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lightning
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Re: Boot spot weld

Post by lightning » Mon 25 Apr, 2016 17:57

Surely there is somebody else who can do this repair? It's not that difficult a job really.

All the threads on the subject are years old. The cars must still be failing...who is repairing them in the UK? Many people are not aware of the issue. I recently spoke to somebody who had just bought a 3.0 and they had no idea. I told them how to check for the fault but never heard back.

I hope their car was OK!

Bonzo
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Re: Boot spot weld

Post by Bonzo » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 17:44

I think they are more likely to fail if you are the type that habitually goes to 4000 rpm, drops the clutch and floors the loud pedal! :shock:

:cheers

Bonzo.
Z3lda (Zelda), 1998 2.8, Montreal Blue, Beige Oregon leather interior and M steering wheel, Sports Seats, Wood trim, Chrome Line Interior, Centre armrest with Cupholder, Alpina Softline wheels, Chromed Angel Eyes, De- tango'd, Rear stone guards, Sport aerial, ASC front strut brace, Strong Strut Butt Strut and Body Brace, Uprated brake fluid, Yellowstuff pads 78k.

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pingu
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Re: Boot spot weld

Post by pingu » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 18:13

Bonzo wrote:I think they are more likely to fail if you are the type that habitually goes to 4000 rpm, drops the clutch and floors the loud pedal! :shock:

:cheers

Bonzo.
It doesn't have to be habitual. Once is enough. That's why I always get the car moving before I give it the beans :) . It's getting from 0-5mph that does the damage, not getting from 5-100 :twisted: ...

Pingu

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sirius-c
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Re: Boot spot weld

Post by sirius-c » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 19:15

Hi Pingu.....


many thanks for taking the time to supply the info and videos you posted here
http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29172

I'm certain this will be a great help
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sirius-c
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Re: Boot spot weld

Post by sirius-c » Wed 11 May, 2016 16:01

I'm pleased to report that I have found a garage that has plenty of experience fixing this problem, especially on the ///M's.


The friendly chap is called Alan and he's the owner of Cracknells Garage, 8 East View, Summer bridge, Harrogate, North Yorkshire HG3 4HZ
He told me he's fixed plenty and is well aware of what's involved.
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Althulas
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Re: Boot spot weld

Post by Althulas » Wed 11 May, 2016 23:24

What does he roughly charge and do you have any experience of his workmanship, not needed now but rather book in for preventative measures. Just a ball park figures so to speak.
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Fender2004
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Re: Boot spot weld

Post by Fender2004 » Thu 12 May, 2016 11:37

Does anyone know if this affects the coupe as well or is it just a roadster problem?

I've never heard of a coupe having to be repaired.
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sirius-c
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Re: Boot spot weld

Post by sirius-c » Thu 12 May, 2016 21:30

Althulas wrote:What does he roughly charge and do you have any experience of his workmanship, not needed now but rather book in for preventative measures. Just a ball park figures so to speak.
I've been keeping an eye on mine for a while (boot floor spot welds),
I took it for an inspection yesterday to see what extent the damage was and luckily there are no visible tears or cracks etc, Alan said it would be beneficial in my particular case just to re-do/reinforce the existing spot welds, for that he said it would cost about £120'ish to re-spot and re-paint. I've got mine booked in for Monday 23rd May 2016 so cant comment on his work at this stage, although he did do the timing belt, water pump & Brakes on my Focus daily driver, Ive got no complaints there.

He told me he's fixed some really bad tears, mainly on zroadster ///m's and e36 M3's, I didn't ask for details of what's involved or how he repairs but he did touch on how its a big job as the rear sub-frame has to be dropped and he welds in some form of reinforcements, It's usually 2 days worth of work, I was just relieved mine wasn't bad. He also explained that the cause in his opinion is due to really aggressive 'daft boy' driving, EG: dropping a cog with a nasty quick clutch dump
sorry, Ive no idea how much the full job would cost


For details of what can happen check these out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JIPJLR ... L&index=12

http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29172



PS: The OAP clan is still playing? are you still playing quake 3 arena/Quakelive :)
Last edited by sirius-c on Fri 13 May, 2016 21:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Althulas
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Re: Boot spot weld

Post by Althulas » Fri 13 May, 2016 02:27

Thanks for the info Its something I want to if I keep the car.

Regarding the clan though unfortunately all good things come to an end and we grow up a bit or other real life stuff takes over, we still banter on the face book page and have a game of tac ops occasionally. I still game a lot myself on PC and Xbox one and occasionally with some friends but do miss the clan nights was goods fun.
If you like gaming with mature minded players visit our retirement home http://www.oap-clan.co.uk/
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Re: Boot spot weld

Post by sirius-c » Fri 13 May, 2016 12:36

I remember playing a few of you guys in q3a, I'm still playing quake live but numbers are dwindling :(
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Bonzo
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Re: Boot spot weld

Post by Bonzo » Fri 13 May, 2016 20:48

I check my spot welds in the boot every 2 months or so and they are all fine. But having seen the horror video from Randy Rhodes, and the others on you tube, I thought I had better have a look from underneath at the diff bracket and surrounding areas. It was all fine there, (touches wood!), I was surprised how clean it was. I sprayed waxoyl all over the bracket and the overlap spot weld areas and can now sleep nights! The zeds with broken brackets and mountings must surely have been abused, although some have successfully had them repaired by BMW after fighting their case.

Cheers,

Bonzo
Z3lda (Zelda), 1998 2.8, Montreal Blue, Beige Oregon leather interior and M steering wheel, Sports Seats, Wood trim, Chrome Line Interior, Centre armrest with Cupholder, Alpina Softline wheels, Chromed Angel Eyes, De- tango'd, Rear stone guards, Sport aerial, ASC front strut brace, Strong Strut Butt Strut and Body Brace, Uprated brake fluid, Yellowstuff pads 78k.

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Brian H
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Re: Boot spot weld

Post by Brian H » Fri 13 May, 2016 21:47

Bonzo wrote:.............The zeds with broken brackets and mountings must surely have been abused, although some have successfully had them repaired by BMW after fighting their case.

Cheers,

Bonzo
Not sure I can agree with you here, I am convinced that jacking under the diff and lifting the rear of the car has a lot to do with this issue.

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sirius-c
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Re: Boot spot weld

Post by sirius-c » Fri 13 May, 2016 22:12

Brian H wrote:
Not sure I can agree with you here, I am convinced that jacking under the diff and lifting the rear of the car has a lot to do with this issue.

:shock:
Agreed, that cant be good either
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Designed or not designed, that is the question.

Bonzo
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Re: Boot spot weld

Post by Bonzo » Fri 13 May, 2016 23:51

Brian H wrote:
Bonzo wrote:.............The zeds with broken brackets and mountings must surely have been abused, although some have successfully had them repaired by BMW after fighting their case.

Cheers,

Bonzo
Not sure I can agree with you here, I am convinced that jacking under the diff and lifting the rear of the car has a lot to do with this issue.
Could well be Brian, good point. I've never heard this theory mentioned before. Anyway, I've always used the jacking points, though I know many do use the diff to lift the rear end.

:cheers

Bonzo.
Z3lda (Zelda), 1998 2.8, Montreal Blue, Beige Oregon leather interior and M steering wheel, Sports Seats, Wood trim, Chrome Line Interior, Centre armrest with Cupholder, Alpina Softline wheels, Chromed Angel Eyes, De- tango'd, Rear stone guards, Sport aerial, ASC front strut brace, Strong Strut Butt Strut and Body Brace, Uprated brake fluid, Yellowstuff pads 78k.

siwilson
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Re: Boot spot weld

Post by siwilson » Sat 14 May, 2016 09:07

Bonzo wrote:
Brian H wrote:
Bonzo wrote:.............The zeds with broken brackets and mountings must surely have been abused, although some have successfully had them repaired by BMW after fighting their case.

Cheers,

Bonzo
Not sure I can agree with you here, I am convinced that jacking under the diff and lifting the rear of the car has a lot to do with this issue.
Could well be Brian, good point. I've never heard this theory mentioned before. Anyway, I've always used the jacking points, though I know many do use the diff to lift the rear end.

:cheers

Bonzo.
Having been involved with these cars and forums for nearly 13 years I can tell you there is no rhyme or reason for which ones break and which ones don't. There are broken 1.9s that only get driven like miss daisy and track abused ///Ms that are right as ninepence. If you look at the way the welds break its because they constantly get pulled by a downward force, flexing the overly thin metal and causing fatigue. Jacking the rear (as I always do) is infrequent and would be the opposite. I imagine one day we will all have to deal with this problem and I hope Randy is still in business when that day comes for me. IMO the ONLY proper fix for a fragile design.
2001 M roadster S54 Laguna Seca Blue

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Robert T
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Re: Boot spot weld

Post by Robert T » Sat 14 May, 2016 10:21

If we're talking about the guy that makes a subframe kit, then his name is Randy Forbes. He does have an account on here, but he hasn't posted in a while. He's based in the States, so bit of a trek to go and see him.

See http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopi ... 06#p391506

Cheers R.

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Bonzo
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Re: Boot spot weld

Post by Bonzo » Sat 14 May, 2016 20:19

Sorry, Randy Forbes it is. Randy Rhodes was a Rock guitarist. Being a bit of a muso, sorry, old muso, 8-) the name Randy just triggered the wrong surname! :dunce:

:cheers

Bonzo
Z3lda (Zelda), 1998 2.8, Montreal Blue, Beige Oregon leather interior and M steering wheel, Sports Seats, Wood trim, Chrome Line Interior, Centre armrest with Cupholder, Alpina Softline wheels, Chromed Angel Eyes, De- tango'd, Rear stone guards, Sport aerial, ASC front strut brace, Strong Strut Butt Strut and Body Brace, Uprated brake fluid, Yellowstuff pads 78k.

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